How much jail time for women who've had abortions?

hippiemom

Pacomc79 wrote:

well, Nicole Ritchie is pregnant.... just thought I'd add that to this thread....

If the thought of her reproducing doesn't make everyone pro-choice, then nothing will.

CorporateWhore

Jeanie wrote:

Bullshit! Why don't you do a little research about what went on before medically provided abortions were available?

Or better yet have a little look at what they do in Africa?

But you just keep rewriting history! :rolleyes:

Bullshit!

There were far fewer actual legal and illegal abortion procedures before 1972, when abortion was legalized in America. Abortion procedures actually grew in number after that. That's funny! Legalize it and then people will do it! Wow!

Abortion was stigmatized before the 70s and people wouldn't do it because of that. Unwanted pregnancies were carried to term because people who had sex would have accountability for it. Now they kill the child.

Jeanie

CorporateWhore wrote:

Bullshit!

There were far fewer actual abortion procedures before 1972, when abortion was legalized in America. Abortion procedures actually grew in number after that. That's funny! Legalize it and then people will do it! Wow!

Abortion was stigmatized before the 70s and people wouldn't do it because of that. Unwanted pregnancies were carried to term because people who had sex would have accountability for it. Now they kill the child.

Oh what crap! Just utter crap!

CorporateWhore

hippiemom wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again ... I'm glad neither of my kids wanted to go to the College of William and Mary. I'd refuse to pay for it, because it's obvious that you don't learn shit about history there.

Yes the history department DEFINITELY sucks and it's FULL OF LIBERALS. Haha, we also have a shitfuck Women's Studies department. The dumbasses who run that department are all pro-choice.

Vedd Hedd

CorporateWhore wrote:

Yes the history department DEFINITELY sucks and it's FULL OF LIBERALS. Haha, we also have a shitfuck Women's Studies department. The dumbasses who run that department are all pro-choice.

Wow.

Just wow.

Abortion is less prevelant now than at any other point in history, legal or illegal.

But you never answered my other question.

Jeanwah

CorporateWhore wrote:

Yes the history department DEFINITELY sucks and it's FULL OF LIBERALS. Haha, we also have a shitfuck Women's Studies department. The dumbasses who run that department are all pro-choice.

Ok, all you smart people out there! Make sure you don't wind up at the wrong college with CorporateWhore!

Jeanie

Jeanwah wrote:

Ok, all you smart people out there! Make sure you don't wind up at the wrong college with CorporateWhore!

Not much chance of that happening Jean!

Too much bad publicity here on the board I'm thinking!

Alex_Coe

If you are a woman, a daddy, or a fetus, you may talk about abortion.

The rest can eat my ass-blank mud babies.

I have enourmous balls.

I dare anyone to prove me wrong.




*The above poster is a 16 year old white suburban boy, therefore he may fucking not talk about abortion.*

But I can still bust anyone's balls I please for being a self-important douche.

Juberoo

OK here's an intellectual spin. Why don't those of you who support abortion, talk to women involved in groups like PASS, Safehaven, Exhale or Planned Parenthood to see just how significant having an abortion is.

Research from these groups (who are often Pro-Choice) shows that the majority of women who choose abortion never do it twice. The guilt, shame and regret they suffer for the rest of their lives is inmeasurable. Post traumatic support groups are everywhere.

The majority of people who fight for abortion rights are doctors, nurses, politicians and women who have never experienced one. That in itself speaks volumes.

Jeanie

Juberoo wrote:

OK here's an intellectual spin. Why don't those of you who support abortion, talk to women involved in groups like PASS, Safehaven, Exhale or Planned Parenthood to see just how significant having an abortion is.

Research from these groups (who are often Pro-Choice) shows that the majority of women who choose abortion never do it twice. The guilt, shame and regret they suffer for the rest of their lives is inmeasurable. Post traumatic support groups are everywhere.

The majority of people who fight for abortion rights are doctors, nurses, politicians and women who have never experienced one. That in itself speaks volumes.

Guess it depends on how you interpret the information doesn't it Juberoo?
Because I disagree with what you're saying here and in my reading and experience in the women's health field I would say that this is not the case.
But then again you are in America. So perhaps things are different here?

hippiemom

Juberoo wrote:

OK here's an intellectual spin. Why don't those of you who support abortion, talk to women involved in groups like PASS, Safehaven, Exhale or Planned Parenthood to see just how significant having an abortion is.

Research from these groups (who are often Pro-Choice) shows that the majority of women who choose abortion never do it twice. The guilt, shame and regret they suffer for the rest of their lives is inmeasurable. Post traumatic support groups are everywhere.

The majority of people who fight for abortion rights are doctors, nurses, politicians and women who have never experienced one. That in itself speaks volumes.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/gpr/09/3/gpr090308.html

There's also an article that SuzannePjam posted a while back that said about half of the women who have an abortion in the U.S. have had at least one abortion previously.

If you're going to argue this, you're going to have to get your facts straight.

And yes, I've had one. No, it wasn't the most fun I've ever had, I'll grant you that, but it's far from the worst thing I've been through. Obviously, if I suffered from guilt and shame I wouldn't be posting this on a message board.

Ladymelonhead

wow...i cant believe that this conversation is still going on. i would hate for some religious folks to impose their beliefs on me... not everyone is a christian...not everyone participates in religion- it is a cultural institution, which some avoid. the idea that the christian idea of morality is the "truth" blows my mind, especially since that definition is so black and white... the world is too complicated and full of circumstances to say that abortion is immoral.

and the notion that you would put a woman in jail for such things is ridiculous... WHAT ABOUT THE PROVIDER OF THE SEED... doesnt seem like he was being too responsible either, and his involvement is clear. throw him in jail while you're at it then please.

Juberoo

Ladymelonhead wrote:

wow...i cant believe that this conversation is still going on. i would hate for some religious folks to impose their beliefs on me... not everyone is a christian...not everyone participates in religion- it is a cultural institution, which some avoid. the idea that the christian idea of morality is the "truth" blows my mind, especially since that definition is so black and white... the world is too complicated and full of circumstances to say that abortion is immoral.

That's a very important point. Not all Pro-Lifers are religious. There are plenty of reasons against abortion that have nothing to do with christianity.

Juberoo

hippiemom wrote:

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/gpr/09/3/gpr090308.html

There's also an article that SuzannePjam posted a while back that said about half of the women who have an abortion in the U.S. have had at least one abortion previously.

If you're going to argue this, you're going to have to get your facts straight.

And yes, I've had one. No, it wasn't the most fun I've ever had, I'll grant you that, but it's far from the worst thing I've been through. Obviously, if I suffered from guilt and shame I wouldn't be posting this on a message board.

Hippiemom one solitary article does not equate fact. Again, do some research. That way you will be able to take your own advice....get your facts straight.

gue_barium

Juberoo wrote:

Hippiemom one solitary article does not equate fact. Again, do some research. That way you will be able to take your own advice....get your facts straight.

And you're getting your info from? A solitary article. Get your intellect straight.

gue_barium

Jeanwah wrote:

Ok, all you smart people out there! Make sure you don't wind up at the wrong college with CorporateWhore!

William and Mary is a beautiful, rustic, well-manicured, historical, campus. I've been there, I will attest.

CorporateWhore is young. He doesn't bother me any. Futility is his domain, Pride is his game.

Not much to it.

Juberoo

gue_barium wrote:

And you're getting your info from? A solitary article. Get your intellect straight.

Ummm no...I listed several organizations involved in this issue. Re-read...maybe read slower...it would help you to understand what is actually being said. Here are a few more to research for yourself. Abortion Conservation Project, Backline, Aus/New Zealand JM, Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, need more???

Furthermore, this problem is so prevalent that many among the psychiatric community tag this as a subtext of PTSD. It is anticipated that the DSM will adjust its next edition accordingly. (It has been non commital in the past first adding it then removing it....it's reasoning being that of civil liberties infringement)

hippiemom

Juberoo wrote:

Hippiemom one solitary article does not equate fact. Again, do some research. That way you will be able to take your own advice....get your facts straight.

Did you READ the article? It cites numerous scientific studies, including the research done by Surgeon General Koop, a diehard pro-lifer. Perhaps you'd be so kind as to refer me to the studies that show the great suffering among women who have had abortions.

Given that approximately one in three American women has an abortion, if any significant percentage of them were traumatized by it, it would be a genuine public health crisis ... and yet, strangely enough, there doesn't seem to be one. Hmmmmm ......

gue_barium

Juberoo wrote:

Ummm no...I listed several organizations involved in this issue. Re-read...maybe read slower...it would help you to understand what is actually being said. Here are a few more to research for yourself. Abortion Conservation Project, Backline, Aus/New Zealand JM, Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, need more???

Furthermore, this problem is so prevalent that many among the psychiatric community tag this as a subtext of PTSD. It is anticipated that the DSM will adjust its next edition accordingly. (It has been non commital in the past first adding it then removing it....it's reasoning being that of civil liberties infringement)

Some of the hardest chargers against abortion are those that have had an abortion. They've been told by their mates that they are murderers, they've been subjected to the scrutiny of law and imprisonment in this country, and they are constantly the subject of an ongoing constitutional debate.

Is it any wonder that there is going to be psychological fallout? And even further, is it any wonder that the jackals that prey on such fallout are going to arrive at such derisive conclusions as to say that, essentially, "women that have abortions are fucked up."?

Fuck you.

You picked on a friend of mine.
Hippiemom has two beautiful, intelligent, incredible daughters that are far and away greater than anything that you and your thinking will ever produce.

Juberoo

hippiemom wrote:

Did you READ the article? It cites numerous scientific studies, including the research done by Surgeon General Koop, a diehard pro-lifer. Perhaps you'd be so kind as to refer me to the studies that show the great suffering among women who have had abortions.

Given that approximately one in three American women has an abortion, if any significant percentage of them were traumatized by it, it would be a genuine public health crisis ... and yet, strangely enough, there doesn't seem to be one. Hmmmmm ......

First of all the article you mention is based on information from the 80's and 90's. Quite outdated already. Furthermore, SG Koop was grossly misquoted by the media as you will see in the attached letter he wrote to the DHS in 1989. In said letter he states again that he felt the groups surveyed were lacking proper controls. So therefore would not base any conclusions on the data. He also goes on to support the medical opinion that addressing the need for abortion was of much more importance than the abortion issue itself. IE: Education. http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/QQ/B/B/Q/Z/_/qqbbqz.pdf

Try again.