more kids shot in US schools... awesome gun laws!!!

rebornFixer

lucylespian wrote:

Violence may be a people thing, but guns amplify the damage. Harsh language, fistcuffs or even knives cannot mow people down like chaff !!
BANG BANG !! You're dead !!
Sadly, all this discussion is pointless. There is no political will in the USA for gun control so .........."How much difference will it make ?"

I agree that this discussion is pointless, because people are condescending and close-minded and don't care to listen to reasonable arguments.

lucylespian

reborncareerist wrote:

I agree that this discussion is pointless, because people are condescending and close-minded and don't care to listen to reasonable arguments.

So, while you are reasonably arguing in favour of guns, kids die because us close-minded anti-gunners won't accept that guns are OK.
Yeah, I can see that, I'm gonna go buy a gun today in the spirit of free thinking.
Hang on, I can't, I have to join a gun club, do a firearm safety course, wait six weeks, and get a gun cabinet, cause I live in gun-free country with no gun crime.
Damn, guess I'll have to remain a gun-free ignoramus !!

Pearl_Jam_Necklace

dunkman1974 wrote:

so cool.... guns are the awesomest!!!!

they should advertise them for sale with the slogan

"for those of you who cant get erections, throw away the Viagra and buy a fucking gun"


bunch of pussies hiding behind guns... penile extensions for those fuckheads that need them!!


so as yet more innocent children die, there faces splattered against the blackboard, rest assured that you have that small pistol beside in order to form that militia, if the need arise, to take on your government.... you'll be too fucking busy to form a militia anyway, theres a lot of schools in America and they'll take a while to target!!

not to change the subject but thats a pretty cool signature you got there.

Truthmonger

dunkman1974 wrote:

the figures are actually way higher than that... 31000 a year on average, 6000 are kids under the age of 14, which is awesome... i love kids but america feels it has way too many so they allow them to play with guns.

go guns... so cool!!! :cool:


got a gun, fact i got two... thats ok man cos i hate kids

So, as the bells were literally still tolling in Amish Pennsylvania, another 13 year-old kid in Missouri walks into his school and shoots the joint up with an AK-47. I'm not shittin ya.

Memo to America: this shit isn't happening in any other western country, at least not to this degree, or with such frequency. YOU NEED TO CHANGE.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1160398086998&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home

WindNoSail

Truthmonger wrote:

So, as the bells were literally still tolling in Amish Pennsylvania, another 13 year-old kid in Missouri walks into his school and shoots the joint up with an AK-47. I'm not shittin ya.

Memo to America: this shit isn't happening in any other western country, at least not to this degree, or with such frequency. YOU NEED TO CHANGE.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1160398086998&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home

I don't get it...why is there this apparent bias that the guns are the problem and that if we just all had our guns siezed by our government then we would all be safe.

We got lots of problems in the US with drugs and violence that all perpuate the crime cycle. And it is in small towns and rural areas too. The % are low so it will probably never happen to YOU, but it will happen to someone if you know what I mean.

But, I don't have any sense that legal gun owners are the problem in the US, especially if you look at the numbers and %. So everyone who said I was an idiot or mad or lived in the Appalachias needs to consider the basic fact that legal gun ownership is not the problem. There are many problems that contribute but that is not the problem.

All you who live in societies that don't allow ownership of guns need to understand that your way isn't going to be our way. It is our second amendment right to own firearms, legally. And it is such a myth that people believe that it is our ownership of guns that causes violence. Our culture has crime driven by race factors, poverty factors, violence in media, etc. If you want to find gun violence in my city I can tell you exactly where to go and it is isolated to a part of town where the people are frankly young black and stupid, and I mean dumber than a box of rocks because they have a total breakdown in the family structures caused by many other factors (teen pregnancy, drugs, fathers lost, etc). Sorry for the bluntness but that is fact and it is true whether you like it or not. In the last ten years it now includes Hispanic neighborhoods.

But then I have several guns, have kids and everything is locked up and safe. But we know how to use them but we don't hardly ever. It isn't an obsession, just a hobby. Harmless as driving a car in a school zone.

dunkman

WindNoSail wrote:

But, I don't have any sense that legal gun owners are the problem in the US, especially if you look at the numbers and %.

ok.. i have, and you have, on average, 5 kids under the age of 14, killed with a legally owned handgun per day in America.

In the Uk the figure is 0... ZERO kids under the age of 14 are killed per day with a legally owned handgun.

in fact the american stats (from your own governments websites) show "Kids in America are 12 times more likely to be killed by a gun than kids in 25 other industrialized nations combined.
The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged less than 15 years was nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized countries combined."

Truthmonger

I'm not gonna go back and read 86 posts here. Instead, even if its been said before, just let me say the following.....

The U.S. has never really clued-in to the idea of communal welfare. They don't have it vis-a-vis guns, they don't have it wrt socialized medicine, and they don't have it in several other areas. In America, personal rights are king, and are irrespective of the harm that society as a whole may otherwise have to bear. As it relates to guns, per se, this poses a serious problem. Why ? Because beyond of the best intentions of the legal/responsible gunowners, is a variable that cannot be controlled - i.e.: the disturbed kid that breaks into his fathers gun stash, the disgruntled employee who will do anything to seek revenge, that temporaily insane husband(or wife) who just found their partner cheating, etc.... And what other countries have said, essentially, is that even if its not fair to the legal gunowners, we still feel that more stringent gun laws are necccesary for the greater safety of *ALL* citizens. In effect, they are attempting to control these unstable variables.

Personally, you couldn't pay me to have a gun in my family home. Never.

jeffbr

Truthmonger wrote:

The U.S. has never really clued-in to the idea of communal welfare. They don't have it vis-a-vis guns, they don't have it wrt socialized medicine, and they don't have it in several other areas. In America, personal rights are king,

Perhaps we have "clued-in" and rejected that notion. Personal rights are king.

Truthmonger

jeffbr wrote:

Perhaps we have "clued-in" and rejected that notion. Personal rights are king.

Well then, by all means, let the carnage continue......

mancore

pushmepullme wrote:

The thing is though, is that the guy who killed all the kids yesterday, was a responsible member of society. Something obviously made him snap, and the ready ability to obtain guns in America allowed him the opportunity to go on a shooting rampage. If guns weren't so easily obtainable in America, would he have gone on a killing spree with a gun? Unlikely. You can say all you like about he'd still have got his hands on a gun, but that's just hearsay, and, is in all likelihood, complete bollocks. For example, if i snapped tomorrow, I wouldn't have a clue where to get a gun from, and all law abiding citizens are the same.
Now, you can say too that criminals would still have guns, which may be true, but how many criminals (and i mean the career criminals who are likely to know where to get a gun from, not just random nutters) do you hear go on shooting spree's, killing innocent kids?
And, you won't be able to un-glamorise the gun until you ban it. Kids are being sent mixed signals if you say on one hand guns are bad, then on the other allow people to arm themselves.

this is it, i just cant understand how some people fail to understand this, of course sadly there will always be killing, but without any old joe having access to a gun youll find a large drop in gun crime and incidents such as this recent tragedy. banning guns isnt the only answer but surely its the first step?

mancore

WindNoSail wrote:

And it is such a myth that people believe that it is our ownership of guns that causes violence.

guns dont cause violence, but they definately provide the most damaging and devastating means of expressing it

Truthmonger

Truthmonger wrote:

So, as the bells were literally still tolling in Amish Pennsylvania, another 13 year-old kid in Missouri walks into his school and shoots the joint up with an AK-47. I'm not shittin ya.

Memo to America: this shit isn't happening in any other western country, at least not to this degree, or with such frequency. YOU NEED TO CHANGE.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1160398086998&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home

Can someone explain how a 13 year-old kid got his hands on an AK-47 ?

UKDave

It's quite simple... if you don't have access to a gun, you can't shoot anyone with one... get them out of the system in whatever way possible....

brainofPJ

UKDave wrote:

It's quite simple... if you don't have access to a gun, you can't shoot anyone with one... get them out of the system in whatever way possible....

if only it was that easy

UKDave

brainofPJ wrote:

if only it was that easy

The principle is... you need to want to do it... they delivery is obviously difficult but it ain't ever gonna happen til you as a country WANT it enough...

69charger

Truthmonger wrote:

Can someone explain how a 13 year-old kid got his hands on an AK-47 ?

Semi-automatic versions of the AK are sold all over the place. The kid did not have an actual AK-47 (full-auto).

He probably got it the way all criminals do... Steal it.

Ahnimus

UKDave wrote:

It's quite simple... if you don't have access to a gun, you can't shoot anyone with one... get them out of the system in whatever way possible....

It's still pretty easy to get matches and you can burn down their house with them inside.

Or you can get javex and put it in their punch.

Or hit them with a car.

Saw off their limbs.

Attack them with a cordless nail gun.

Stick 'em with a sword/knife.

Pull the plug on them in the hospital.

Strangle them to death.

Kick 'em in the head.

Beat 'em with a baseball bat.

Etc.. it's really easy to kill someone, even unintentionally. I personally know someone who killed another person in self-defense with a baseball bat to the skull. He did 5 years for manslaughter.

Truthmonger

69charger wrote:

Semi-automatic versions of the AK are sold all over the place. The kid did not have an actual AK-47 (full-auto).

He probably got it the way all criminals do... Steal it.

Yes, they're available "all over the place" - in the U.S.. Moreover, he's 13, he's not some hardened street thug out on parole again from Sing Sing. WTF, is it just me, or does anyone else think that a 13 year-old kid walkin around with an AK-47(or a reasonable facsimile) is just plain wrong - and on so many levels ??

I agree that he probably took it/stole it, and said as much several posts earlier. But surely, then, the answer must lie in having fewer of those guns around...or having their accesssibility drastically altered.

Ahnimus

Truthmonger wrote:

Yes, they're available "all over the place" - in the U.S.. Moreover, he's 13, he's not some hardened street thug out on parole again from Sing Sing. WTF, is it just me, or does anyone else think that a 13 year-old kid walkin around with an AK-47(or a reasonable facsimile) is just plain wrong - and on so many levels ??

I agree that he probably took it/stole it, and said as much several posts earlier. But surely, then, the answer must lie in having fewer of those guns around...or having their accesssibility drastically altered.

I don't know man, there wasn't much I would have wanted more at the age of 13 than a Kalishnikova, that would have been sweet!

mancore

Truthmonger wrote:

Yes, they're available "all over the place" - in the U.S.. Moreover, he's 13, he's not some hardened street thug out on parole again from Sing Sing. WTF, is it just me, or does anyone else think that a 13 year-old kid walkin around with an AK-47(or a reasonable facsimile) is just plain wrong - and on so many levels ??

I agree that he probably took it/stole it, and said as much several posts earlier. But surely, then, the answer must lie in having fewer of those guns around...or having their accesssibility drastically altered.

exactly, a 13 yr old here has nowhere to steel one from, hence, you dont get kids running around with guns. sure heavy criminals can get them but a twisted teenager would have a hard time finding one to go shoot up the school with, and imo is unlikely to go on a bassball bat rampage. a large part of this has to be a fascination with guns, a fascination that can be fed due to the availabilty of them, anyone who thinks taking guns away wont reduce the number of school shootings over time is crazy, its not the complete solution of course, but it will go a long way to helping.