the problem does lie a lot with the parents. Parents aren't involved in a lot of kids lives anymore. Or the parents haven't ever told their kid "no" or disciplined them. At some point the kids are responsible but I think the the environment shapes the kids more than we know. We have parents who don't know how to parent or are too consumed with themselves and aren't nurturing or grooming their children. Look at schools, you don't have parents backing up teachers when the teacher says that little johnny is acting up...the parents believe the children. I think a lot of parents are disillusioned and they believe that their kid can't be the problem it's always the other kid...until they find out the hard way that it is their kid.
Guns aren't the problem, in my opinion. Take care of parenting, take care of kids, take care of the underlying attitudes of some in poverty and wealth, take away the glorification of violence / guns and you'll help solve the problem a lot better than banning guns. it seems that we put our value on accumulation of material possesions not on rearing children or helping others.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
they are a major part of the problem otherwise all you get is a disgruntled moron shouting bang at people... it doesnt quite have the same effect...
so with a gun the person becomes a killer, without he becomes a nobody
You sir are an idiot. Blaming guns for societies woes is just plain negligent. How about the fact that he only killed the females in the class? wouldnt sexual frustration be to blame?
EVERY LAW ABIDING CITIZEN HAS THE RIGHT TO OWN A GUN!
I agree with the person who said that parents need to nurture thier children & love them. That's only part of the problem.....mental illness & the availability of guns plays a large part too. It's not just kids killing school mates, it's also disturbed older people. If guns weren't so easy to buy & use, a lot of the violence in schools (and everywhere else) would be lessened. It's a tragedy.....
Has anyone seen "Bowling for Columbine"????
Yes...I think anyway.
The most significant thing in that entire movie (if I am thinking of the right one) was the interview with Marlyn Manson.
It went something like this:
Interviewer: What would you like to tell those kids? (the shooters)
Manson: I wouldn't tell them anything, I would listen.
That is sooooo significant to me. If we would just stop and listen to our children, and let them express themselves verbally then there is no need for them to shoot.
Great example:
My highschool, my junior year....
New student dressed all in black, had his backpack thrown in lunch trash, was hit by the "jocks" and riticuled by the "preppy" people. I was a cheerlearder, so I was in the "jock" crowd. I walked over, got his backpack out of the trash, cleaned it, and sat with him during art class. I still cheered and had jocky friends, and I was best friends with the "maryln manson freak." The "freak" and I continue to be the very best of friend 8 years later. The only person I still speak to from my high school. He is very different now, and so am I. I never asked him to change his dress or beliefs or friends. he never asked me to change either. We accepted our differences and I like to think the school was a better place b/c of it. It broke down boundaries for a lot of people.
I belive Know1 said "the problem is the parents" and by god you are right. But lets assume a child has terrible parents. Alcholics, drug addicts, abusive, what ever. this will forever and ever happen. So what do we do. Well these kids go to school, so they need to find love and appreciation there. School needs to be their haven, not another place to feel unwelcome. Children from bad homes should wake up early to go to school b/c it is a safe place where they feel loved.
I belive Know1 said "the problem is the parents" and by god you are right. But lets assume a child has terrible parents. Alcholics, drug addicts, abusive, what ever. this will forever and ever happen. So what do we do. Well these kids go to school, so they need to find love and appreciation there. School needs to be their haven, not another place to feel unwelcome. Children from bad homes should wake up early to go to school b/c it is a safe place where they feel loved.
while i agree that kids need to feel safe at school and should get love (sometimes love is tough love) there, don't forget that teachers are only there a few hours more than the students. The students are at school for 6 hours a day for 9 mos...there's A LOT of time spent away from there. I really like the boys / girls clubs that help the children and the big brothers/sisters programs. I think we need to look for other avenues to help the students...teachers have their own families to worry about too.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
I agree with the person who said that parents need to nurture thier children & love them. That's only part of the problem.....mental illness & the availability of guns plays a large part too. It's not just kids killing school mates, it's also disturbed older people. If guns weren't so easy to buy & use, a lot of the violence in schools (and everywhere else) would be lessened. It's a tragedy.....
Has anyone seen "Bowling for Columbine"????
Bowling for Columbine actually argues that gun laws don't make any difference at all.
Michael Moore travels to Canada where rifles are legal and there are less shootings per capita. He even goes to Toronto where he claims people leave their doors unlocked. He enters their homes through the front door and is once offered a beverage.
The problem with Michael Moore is he is a liar. He probably set up with those people before shooting. Or simply omitted the times when he was yelled at and threatened.
But, anyway, he argues that gun laws don't make a difference. The difference is cultural. I am a Canadian and I don't feel threatened by people. I live in a neighborhood with lots of violence and B&Es but I leave my doors unlocked quite often.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
The most significant thing in that entire movie (if I am thinking of the right one) was the interview with Marlyn Manson.
It went something like this:
Interviewer: What would you like to tell those kids? (the shooters)
Manson: I wouldn't tell them anything, I would listen.
That is sooooo significant to me. If we would just stop and listen to our children, and let them express themselves verbally then there is no need for them to shoot.
Great example:
My highschool, my junior year....
New student dressed all in black, had his backpack thrown in lunch trash, was hit by the "jocks" and riticuled by the "preppy" people. I was a cheerlearder, so I was in the "jock" crowd. I walked over, got his backpack out of the trash, cleaned it, and sat with him during art class. I still cheered and had jocky friends, and I was best friends with the "maryln manson freak." The "freak" and I continue to be the very best of friend 8 years later. The only person I still speak to from my high school. He is very different now, and so am I. I never asked him to change his dress or beliefs or friends. he never asked me to change either. We accepted our differences and I like to think the school was a better place b/c of it. It broke down boundaries for a lot of people.
**Yeah, humanlight, you have the right movie.....and I agree with you about listening.....Kids can be very cruel to each other. Bullying is also part of the problem - I think it's directly related to why kids feel so desperate sometimes... Have you read a book called "Odd Girl Out" (I think that's the name of it). It's about girls bullying other girls. The story you related above reminds me of a kid at my school that everyone picked on...it also reminds me of the song "Jeremy". Parents need to be aware of how thier kids are being treated & how they feel about it....The only reason kids picked on that kid at my school was because he was quiet, shy, & dressed kind of "straight-laced" for lack of a better word. I felt sorry for him & ashamed at how the other kids teased him. Maybe his parents didn't have a lot of money to buy him cool clothes, etc. So what if he wasn't "hip", ya know? Eventually, he ended up stabbing a boy with the end of a math compass, luckily he was ok. Parents need to teach thier kids to be compassionate & tolerant. Kudos to you for being a friend when your "freaky" friend probably needed that more than anything else. A little understanding & friendship goes a long way & can change someone's life.
while i agree that kids need to feel safe at school and should get love (sometimes love is tough love) there, don't forget that teachers are only there a few hours more than the students. The students are at school for 6 hours a day for 9 mos...there's A LOT of time spent away from there. I really like the boys / girls clubs that help the children and the big brothers/sisters programs. I think we need to look for other avenues to help the students...teachers have their own families to worry about too.
Agreed, but I see it all to often, that the kids that need the most understanding and support, are the very last to get it at school. I mean teachers (talking about high school) really do not ask the kids who have peircing all over, blue hair, etc to hang out after class to disscuss thier paper topics. They never ask the skate boarders at lunch to show them some cool tricks. They tell the quarterback he had a good game. When I did my internship at a very large intercity high school, I made it a point to point out something positive to every child I passed in the hall. Like in the middle of class when I was walking down the hall. "I love those shoes", "you look wonderful today." "let me know how the chess team does" etc. I had something nice to say to all of them. That is all I am asking. Give them someone to be connected to.
Agreed, but I see it all to often, that the kids that need the most understanding and support, are the very last to get it at school. I mean teachers (talking about high school) really do not ask the kids who have peircing all over, blue hair, etc to hang out after class to disscuss thier paper topics. They never ask the skate boarders at lunch to show them some cool tricks. They tell the quarterback he had a good game. When I did my internship at a very large intercity high school, I made it a point to point out something positive to every child I passed in the hall. Like in the middle of class when I was walking down the hall. "I love those shoes", "you look wonderful today." "let me know how the chess team does" etc. I had something nice to say to all of them. That is all I am asking. Give them someone to be connected to.
those are great suggestions. the thing is ALL of us should try that. What's the saying, "you never know when you'll make someones day"...something cheesey like that but it def is true.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
those are great suggestions. the thing is ALL of us should try that. What's the saying, "you never know when you'll make someones day"...something cheesey like that but it def is true.
Exactly, this is not rocket science. Before the time of TV and Video games people had to talk for entertainment. It is not the violence so much as the actual TV itself. We no longer face each other. People set side by side in thier living rooms to see the TV instead of in a circle to see each other. I bet 99% of peoples living room is designed so that each chair has a good view of the TV! Not each other. Just talk to your kids, and when they have friend over, talk to them too. Any moment you have to show a kid that you care, should be taken advantage of. If adults would do this, then we would have far less shootings.
Exactly, this is not rocket science. Before the time of TV and Video games people had to talk for entertainment. It is not the violence so much as the actual TV itself. We no longer face each other. People set side by side in thier living rooms to see the TV instead of in a circle to see each other. I bet 99% of peoples living room is designed so that each chair has a good view of the TV! Not each other. Just talk to your kids, and when they have friend over, talk to them too. Any moment you have to show a kid that you care, should be taken advantage of. If adults would do this, then we would have far less shootings.
i went to a talk last friday on kids and activity / obesity. The stats show that tv watching has stayed relatively the same over the last 20 or so years (~3 hours a day) HOWEVER, there is an increase in internet and computer game use that was not prevelent in the last 20 years. So in full support of what you say, we are now spending even more time isolated and not interacting face to face. I think it's def time we turn off the tv and act like families again...as hokey as the 50's sounded, you have to wonder if they were on to something in some regards.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
Gun laws will stop criminals from getting guns as well as drug laws have stopped them from getting drugs.
Criminals don't play by the rules...and putting the clamps on the rights of law abiding citizens with regard to gun laws is like punishing a teacher because a kid who refuses to study is illiterate.
The thing is though, is that the guy who killed all the kids yesterday, was a responsible member of society. Something obviously made him snap, and the ready ability to obtain guns in America allowed him the opportunity to go on a shooting rampage. If guns weren't so easily obtainable in America, would he have gone on a killing spree with a gun? Unlikely. You can say all you like about he'd still have got his hands on a gun, but that's just hearsay, and, is in all likelihood, complete bollocks. For example, if i snapped tomorrow, I wouldn't have a clue where to get a gun from, and all law abiding citizens are the same.
Now, you can say too that criminals would still have guns, which may be true, but how many criminals (and i mean the career criminals who are likely to know where to get a gun from, not just random nutters) do you hear go on shooting spree's, killing innocent kids?
And, you won't be able to un-glamorise the gun until you ban it. Kids are being sent mixed signals if you say on one hand guns are bad, then on the other allow people to arm themselves.
"I am a doughnut." (live - Berlin, Germany - 11/03/96)
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
The thing is though, is that the guy who killed all the kids yesterday, was a responsible member of society. Something obviously made him snap, and the ready ability to obtain guns in America allowed him the opportunity to go on a shooting rampage. If guns weren't so easily obtainable in America, would he have gone on a killing spree with a gun? Unlikely. You can say all you like about he'd still have got his hands on a gun, but that's just hearsay, and, is in all likelihood, complete bollocks. For example, if i snapped tomorrow, I wouldn't have a clue where to get a gun from, and all law abiding citizens are the same.
Now, you can say too that criminals would still have guns, which may be true, but how many criminals (and i mean the career criminals who are likely to know where to get a gun from, not just random nutters) do you hear go on shooting spree's, killing innocent kids?
And, you won't be able to un-glamorise the gun until you ban it. Kids are being sent mixed signals if you say on one hand guns are bad, then on the other allow people to arm themselves.
I was thinking along these same lines as well. I am admittly bias because I hate guns but if guns were illegal or extremely difficult to get, I wouldnt have a clue on how to get one to go on a rampage. by all acounts this guy was a normal family man and scary as hell how he just snapped. his family made a statement saying how shocked they were. i dont get it.
Guns are NOT the problem. They are prolific tools for killing, but it's the person who pulls the trigger that is the problem.
Far too many people are responsible with guns than are irresponsible. Just like cars, drugs... etc. I think people doing these fucked up deeds is more a product of living in our times than it is easy access to guns.
It's our society, not our gun laws.
Very well put. I grew up in a house with approximately 15+ weapons. ALL were under lock and key, only accessible by an adult. I now own those weapons, and they remain under lock and key. Being around weapons, or having access to weapons, does not make you a killer. I learned to target shoot and hunt under the supervison of an adult.
I'm definately no criminal now, in fact I have spent the last 22 years as a paramedic and firefighter. I have seen what poor parenting can lead to, and that includes gun violence. I recently treated a 7 year old that was shot accidently by a sibling because the stupid ass mother kept her handgun in a tote bag with her childrens video game console. They had no idea it was a real weapon, luckily the child only recieved minor injuries.
It all boils down to adults taking responsibility for there kids and their own actions.
If people would grow up and stop expecting the government to hold their hand throughout life, stop trying to have the schools raise their children and bring back corpral punishment in schools (yes, I got paddled in school, including high school), we would all be better off....INCLUDING THE KIDS!
_____________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
3500 people died in the USA when the Trade Towers fell, and a world war started, 6000 americans die every year from gun crime and you don't give a shit! Most killings are by a first degreee relative.
Yes you have a major established problem, but's that's no reason to excuse it.
In Australia, after the Port Arthur massacre, the government banned all semi-automatic weapons and bought back the guns,also licenced firearms must be stored in a locked place, with the bolt removed with the ammo stored in a separate locked compartment. All gun owners must complete a firearms safety course and be a current member of a gun club.
Guess what, 10 yrs later the idiots who buried their guns to avoid the buy-back have forgotten where they buried them and NO MORE GUN CRIME!!!!
The only fatal firearm crimes in Australia are bikies shooting each other occasionally and the odd police shooting.
When you think, "I want to kill you " here, you have to reach further than your pocket.!!! If you want to buy a gun you haev to wait 6 weeks, time to cool off !!
That whole gun in a handbag story just re-inforces the point.
I am NOT pro-guns BUT even if they were outlawed, I think the "bad guys" would still get them.
I HATE guns.
HATEHATEHATEHATEHATEHATEHATE them.
Loathe them.
But if we ban them it's just going to cause more problems..
Look at the war on drugs..
We ban them what's going to happen?
People that want them will get them illegally which funds crime.
They banned liquor with the 18th amendment and soon after that the mob took over the liquor raquet and made millions. The Kennedy family is what they are because of it, that's how big it was.
Gun control (as well as drug control) needs to be more progressive than that.
But if we ban them it's just going to cause more problems..
Look at the war on drugs..
We ban them what's going to happen?
People that want them will get them illegally which funds crime.
They banned liquor with the 18th amendment and soon after that the mob took over the liquor raquet and made millions. The Kennedy family is what they are because of it, that's how big it was.
Gun control (as well as drug control) needs to be more progressive than that.
If you legalise drugs, you'll cut out the main source of contraband revenue for organised crime. Drugs are often exchanged, in countries where firearms are banned without licence, for all sorts of guns: but if you legalise the drugs, then where's the need for a lot of firearms trafficking? It's gone, largely! You make great steps toward eliminating the problem, there and then. So, without demand for arms, the supply will dwindle: organised crime can no longer perpetuate to such a degree.
Who wants/needs guns, then? Licenced huntsmen? Okay, apply for a licence. Do the paperwork, to be qualified to own a weapon. There's a marginal risk that a licenced gun owner might go off and commit a crime similar to the ones we've seen recently, for complex reasons, but the possibility of the frequency of such massacres would be reduced, considerably.
What I'm saying - which dovetails with your point - is that the legalisation of drugs would cut out a large demand for contraband guns, should guns be banned. There's gun crime here in the UK, and gangs get hold of guns easily: they need them to maintain their drugs empires, since recreational drugs are bought and sold off legal limits.
"People that want them will get them illegally which funds crime.", this was a quote, but I am crap at quoting teh bit I want .
Didn't happen in Australia, or any other country without handguns, amazing how Europe and most of Asia copes without guns in pockets.
As cliche as it sounds, Americans live in a different culture than Europeans/Aussies. Plus we have an enormous amount of people and land to govern such laws on.. it becomes more complex from there.
I love what you said Mr. Carrots, I agree 100%
By the way... Europe has GREATLY eased their stress on the 'war on drugs'.. any connection with that and their impressively lower crime rates? ^_^
in your sarcasm you fail to realize that people get guns through unscrupulous means...people that abide by gun laws will abide by laws...people that will circumvent laws are going to circuvent whatever laws are in place. this is one thing i believe in strongly. take away the guns from the citizenry and the only people that have guns will be the government and the criminals. great life.
they should advertise them for sale with the slogan
"for those of you who cant get erections, throw away the Viagra and buy a fucking gun"
bunch of pussies hiding behind guns... penile extensions for those fuckheads that need them!!
so as yet more innocent children die, there faces splattered against the blackboard, rest assured that you have that small pistol beside in order to form that militia, if the need arise, to take on your government.... you'll be too fucking busy to form a militia anyway, theres a lot of schools in America and they'll take a while to target!!
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." -- Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanlysis (1952)
Freud was the ultimate false-consciousness ridden capitalist, dehistoricising and ironically fetishising the socio-ideological psychopathology of his war-ridden age, as some timeless and universal, "psychosexual" human condition.
As cliche as it sounds, Americans live in a different culture than Europeans/Aussies. Plus we have an enormous amount of people and land to govern such laws on.. it becomes more complex from there.
I love what you said Mr. Carrots, I agree 100%
By the way... Europe has GREATLY eased their stress on the 'war on drugs'.. any connection with that and their impressively lower crime rates? ^_^
Yeah dude, but you gotta start somewhere, as I said, just cause it's hard, don't mean it shouldn't happen. You do live in a different culture, you have a gun culture through and through !! You worship them, you glamourise them, you trivilaise them, you totally ignore how many people they kill, you refuse to even consider for a second how un-necessary thay are. Whem I was a teenager I had a passing interest in them, teh skill involved and how closely they relate to evolving elements of primitive manhood, being powerful and a successful provider in a tribal environment, but I got over it as I matured, realising they have no place in a civilised world today.
take away the guns from the citizenry and the only people that have guns will be the government and the criminals. great life.
so just like Australia, UK, Italy, Germany, Japan, etc etc etc... then??? :rolleyes:
and it is indeed a 'great life' and i'll tell you why..
you think you need guns to feel safe, yet wouldnt you feel more safe in the knowledge that no-one had a gun?
i.e. i can give the finger to someone who cuts me up on the road with the full knowledge that i wont get my face blown off... but in the US i could have a 'bigger' problem if that guy then stops his car and gets out and waves a gun in my face.
you are just perpetuating the circle of fear by saying you need a gun to feel safe... safe from whom, other people with guns??? if those people didnt have guns then you wouldnt need to be scared in the first place!
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Comments
the problem does lie a lot with the parents. Parents aren't involved in a lot of kids lives anymore. Or the parents haven't ever told their kid "no" or disciplined them. At some point the kids are responsible but I think the the environment shapes the kids more than we know. We have parents who don't know how to parent or are too consumed with themselves and aren't nurturing or grooming their children. Look at schools, you don't have parents backing up teachers when the teacher says that little johnny is acting up...the parents believe the children. I think a lot of parents are disillusioned and they believe that their kid can't be the problem it's always the other kid...until they find out the hard way that it is their kid.
Guns aren't the problem, in my opinion. Take care of parenting, take care of kids, take care of the underlying attitudes of some in poverty and wealth, take away the glorification of violence / guns and you'll help solve the problem a lot better than banning guns. it seems that we put our value on accumulation of material possesions not on rearing children or helping others.
You sir are an idiot. Blaming guns for societies woes is just plain negligent. How about the fact that he only killed the females in the class? wouldnt sexual frustration be to blame?
EVERY LAW ABIDING CITIZEN HAS THE RIGHT TO OWN A GUN!
We need more guns not less...
Yes...I think anyway.
The most significant thing in that entire movie (if I am thinking of the right one) was the interview with Marlyn Manson.
It went something like this:
Interviewer: What would you like to tell those kids? (the shooters)
Manson: I wouldn't tell them anything, I would listen.
That is sooooo significant to me. If we would just stop and listen to our children, and let them express themselves verbally then there is no need for them to shoot.
Great example:
My highschool, my junior year....
New student dressed all in black, had his backpack thrown in lunch trash, was hit by the "jocks" and riticuled by the "preppy" people. I was a cheerlearder, so I was in the "jock" crowd. I walked over, got his backpack out of the trash, cleaned it, and sat with him during art class. I still cheered and had jocky friends, and I was best friends with the "maryln manson freak." The "freak" and I continue to be the very best of friend 8 years later. The only person I still speak to from my high school. He is very different now, and so am I. I never asked him to change his dress or beliefs or friends. he never asked me to change either. We accepted our differences and I like to think the school was a better place b/c of it. It broke down boundaries for a lot of people.
while i agree that kids need to feel safe at school and should get love (sometimes love is tough love) there, don't forget that teachers are only there a few hours more than the students. The students are at school for 6 hours a day for 9 mos...there's A LOT of time spent away from there. I really like the boys / girls clubs that help the children and the big brothers/sisters programs. I think we need to look for other avenues to help the students...teachers have their own families to worry about too.
Bowling for Columbine actually argues that gun laws don't make any difference at all.
Michael Moore travels to Canada where rifles are legal and there are less shootings per capita. He even goes to Toronto where he claims people leave their doors unlocked. He enters their homes through the front door and is once offered a beverage.
The problem with Michael Moore is he is a liar. He probably set up with those people before shooting. Or simply omitted the times when he was yelled at and threatened.
But, anyway, he argues that gun laws don't make a difference. The difference is cultural. I am a Canadian and I don't feel threatened by people. I live in a neighborhood with lots of violence and B&Es but I leave my doors unlocked quite often.
**Yeah, humanlight, you have the right movie.....and I agree with you about listening.....Kids can be very cruel to each other. Bullying is also part of the problem - I think it's directly related to why kids feel so desperate sometimes... Have you read a book called "Odd Girl Out" (I think that's the name of it). It's about girls bullying other girls. The story you related above reminds me of a kid at my school that everyone picked on...it also reminds me of the song "Jeremy". Parents need to be aware of how thier kids are being treated & how they feel about it....The only reason kids picked on that kid at my school was because he was quiet, shy, & dressed kind of "straight-laced" for lack of a better word. I felt sorry for him & ashamed at how the other kids teased him. Maybe his parents didn't have a lot of money to buy him cool clothes, etc. So what if he wasn't "hip", ya know? Eventually, he ended up stabbing a boy with the end of a math compass, luckily he was ok. Parents need to teach thier kids to be compassionate & tolerant. Kudos to you for being a friend when your "freaky" friend probably needed that more than anything else. A little understanding & friendship goes a long way & can change someone's life.
Agreed, but I see it all to often, that the kids that need the most understanding and support, are the very last to get it at school. I mean teachers (talking about high school) really do not ask the kids who have peircing all over, blue hair, etc to hang out after class to disscuss thier paper topics. They never ask the skate boarders at lunch to show them some cool tricks. They tell the quarterback he had a good game. When I did my internship at a very large intercity high school, I made it a point to point out something positive to every child I passed in the hall. Like in the middle of class when I was walking down the hall. "I love those shoes", "you look wonderful today." "let me know how the chess team does" etc. I had something nice to say to all of them. That is all I am asking. Give them someone to be connected to.
those are great suggestions. the thing is ALL of us should try that. What's the saying, "you never know when you'll make someones day"...something cheesey like that but it def is true.
Exactly, this is not rocket science. Before the time of TV and Video games people had to talk for entertainment. It is not the violence so much as the actual TV itself. We no longer face each other. People set side by side in thier living rooms to see the TV instead of in a circle to see each other. I bet 99% of peoples living room is designed so that each chair has a good view of the TV! Not each other. Just talk to your kids, and when they have friend over, talk to them too. Any moment you have to show a kid that you care, should be taken advantage of. If adults would do this, then we would have far less shootings.
i went to a talk last friday on kids and activity / obesity. The stats show that tv watching has stayed relatively the same over the last 20 or so years (~3 hours a day) HOWEVER, there is an increase in internet and computer game use that was not prevelent in the last 20 years. So in full support of what you say, we are now spending even more time isolated and not interacting face to face. I think it's def time we turn off the tv and act like families again...as hokey as the 50's sounded, you have to wonder if they were on to something in some regards.
Criminals don't play by the rules...and putting the clamps on the rights of law abiding citizens with regard to gun laws is like punishing a teacher because a kid who refuses to study is illiterate.
old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
Yeah, sorry about the Highlander. Couldn't help myself.
If you get rid of all the humans, guns can't kill.
If you get rid of all the guns, humans can still kill.
we are cooler than everyone else
nuff said
Now, you can say too that criminals would still have guns, which may be true, but how many criminals (and i mean the career criminals who are likely to know where to get a gun from, not just random nutters) do you hear go on shooting spree's, killing innocent kids?
And, you won't be able to un-glamorise the gun until you ban it. Kids are being sent mixed signals if you say on one hand guns are bad, then on the other allow people to arm themselves.
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
--Ed
I was thinking along these same lines as well. I am admittly bias because I hate guns but if guns were illegal or extremely difficult to get, I wouldnt have a clue on how to get one to go on a rampage. by all acounts this guy was a normal family man and scary as hell how he just snapped. his family made a statement saying how shocked they were. i dont get it.
Very well put. I grew up in a house with approximately 15+ weapons. ALL were under lock and key, only accessible by an adult. I now own those weapons, and they remain under lock and key. Being around weapons, or having access to weapons, does not make you a killer. I learned to target shoot and hunt under the supervison of an adult.
I'm definately no criminal now, in fact I have spent the last 22 years as a paramedic and firefighter. I have seen what poor parenting can lead to, and that includes gun violence. I recently treated a 7 year old that was shot accidently by a sibling because the stupid ass mother kept her handgun in a tote bag with her childrens video game console. They had no idea it was a real weapon, luckily the child only recieved minor injuries.
It all boils down to adults taking responsibility for there kids and their own actions.
If people would grow up and stop expecting the government to hold their hand throughout life, stop trying to have the schools raise their children and bring back corpral punishment in schools (yes, I got paddled in school, including high school), we would all be better off....INCLUDING THE KIDS!
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
Yes you have a major established problem, but's that's no reason to excuse it.
In Australia, after the Port Arthur massacre, the government banned all semi-automatic weapons and bought back the guns,also licenced firearms must be stored in a locked place, with the bolt removed with the ammo stored in a separate locked compartment. All gun owners must complete a firearms safety course and be a current member of a gun club.
Guess what, 10 yrs later the idiots who buried their guns to avoid the buy-back have forgotten where they buried them and NO MORE GUN CRIME!!!!
The only fatal firearm crimes in Australia are bikies shooting each other occasionally and the odd police shooting.
When you think, "I want to kill you " here, you have to reach further than your pocket.!!! If you want to buy a gun you haev to wait 6 weeks, time to cool off !!
That whole gun in a handbag story just re-inforces the point.
HATEHATEHATEHATEHATEHATEHATE them.
Loathe them.
But if we ban them it's just going to cause more problems..
Look at the war on drugs..
We ban them what's going to happen?
People that want them will get them illegally which funds crime.
They banned liquor with the 18th amendment and soon after that the mob took over the liquor raquet and made millions. The Kennedy family is what they are because of it, that's how big it was.
Gun control (as well as drug control) needs to be more progressive than that.
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
If you legalise drugs, you'll cut out the main source of contraband revenue for organised crime. Drugs are often exchanged, in countries where firearms are banned without licence, for all sorts of guns: but if you legalise the drugs, then where's the need for a lot of firearms trafficking? It's gone, largely! You make great steps toward eliminating the problem, there and then. So, without demand for arms, the supply will dwindle: organised crime can no longer perpetuate to such a degree.
Who wants/needs guns, then? Licenced huntsmen? Okay, apply for a licence. Do the paperwork, to be qualified to own a weapon. There's a marginal risk that a licenced gun owner might go off and commit a crime similar to the ones we've seen recently, for complex reasons, but the possibility of the frequency of such massacres would be reduced, considerably.
What I'm saying - which dovetails with your point - is that the legalisation of drugs would cut out a large demand for contraband guns, should guns be banned. There's gun crime here in the UK, and gangs get hold of guns easily: they need them to maintain their drugs empires, since recreational drugs are bought and sold off legal limits.
Didn't happen in Australia, or any other country without handguns, amazing how Europe and most of Asia copes without guns in pockets.
I love what you said Mr. Carrots, I agree 100%
By the way... Europe has GREATLY eased their stress on the 'war on drugs'.. any connection with that and their impressively lower crime rates? ^_^
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
It's not the guns, it's the fucking laws that need readjusting.
Just like when someone drives drunk, wrecks and kills people, it's not the car or the alcohol that is the problem... it's the person.
from my window to yours
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." -- Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanlysis (1952)
sigmund freud was an idiot.
from my window to yours
Freud was the ultimate false-consciousness ridden capitalist, dehistoricising and ironically fetishising the socio-ideological psychopathology of his war-ridden age, as some timeless and universal, "psychosexual" human condition.
Now, back to the topic.
Yeah dude, but you gotta start somewhere, as I said, just cause it's hard, don't mean it shouldn't happen. You do live in a different culture, you have a gun culture through and through !! You worship them, you glamourise them, you trivilaise them, you totally ignore how many people they kill, you refuse to even consider for a second how un-necessary thay are. Whem I was a teenager I had a passing interest in them, teh skill involved and how closely they relate to evolving elements of primitive manhood, being powerful and a successful provider in a tribal environment, but I got over it as I matured, realising they have no place in a civilised world today.
So I take it you are a Scientologist?
so just like Australia, UK, Italy, Germany, Japan, etc etc etc... then??? :rolleyes:
and it is indeed a 'great life' and i'll tell you why..
you think you need guns to feel safe, yet wouldnt you feel more safe in the knowledge that no-one had a gun?
i.e. i can give the finger to someone who cuts me up on the road with the full knowledge that i wont get my face blown off... but in the US i could have a 'bigger' problem if that guy then stops his car and gets out and waves a gun in my face.
you are just perpetuating the circle of fear by saying you need a gun to feel safe... safe from whom, other people with guns??? if those people didnt have guns then you wouldnt need to be scared in the first place!