more kids shot in US schools... awesome gun laws!!!

duggro

izzard:

“And the National Rifle Association says that, "Guns don't kill people, people do,” but I think the gun helps, you know? I think it helps. I just think just standing there going, "Bang!" That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that…”

dunkman

humanlight wrote:

the problem is not the guns, it is that we have disgruntled children!!! We need to fix that. We need to show children that we care! Not let them be pissed off and no one notices. they need to feel loved and cared about. Fix that, not the guns.

i agree... but with no ready access to a gun, then the disgruntled kid doesnt have a violent outlet... sure he may kill himself and thats tragic enough, but even more tragic is the killing of innocents because you have a grudge

if the columbine high kids didnt have access to those guns and used baseball bats instead.... i'm not a betting man but i'm sure most of those gun victims would still be alive today

NCfan

blackredyellow wrote:

People don't kill each other with knives, hammers, cars, fists, explosives, etc.?

Exactly...

It's funny how guns have been a part of society ever since they were invented, and only since the 1990's have these school shootings become a problem.

It seems very simple to me that these acts are commited now because they can serve a purpose in the age of cable news, the internet and ridalin - in a way that shooting up your school wouldn't have been international news 20 years ago.

know1

The problem is the parents.

dunkman

duggro wrote:

izzard:

“And the National Rifle Association says that, "Guns don't kill people, people do,” but I think the gun helps, you know? I think it helps. I just think just standing there going, "Bang!" That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that…”

i belive that no-one else has ever quoted Izzard on this forum except you and I :cool:

comedians always say it best

Arainea

humanlight wrote:

the problem is not the guns, it is that we have disgruntled children!!! We need to fix that. We need to show children that we care! Not let them be pissed off and no one notices. they need to feel loved and cared about. Fix that, not the guns.

Yes, I agree with this. We spend too much time making money, and not enough time raising our children. Our larger family units are often disconnectd, and our communities are not close-knit. This kind of isolation can be the thing that pushes an already fragile person over the edge, in my opinion.

dunkman

know1 wrote:

The problem is the parents.

read "a boy called it" and then tell me how that guy didnt grow up to be a homicidial maniac... it can be overcome, parents are partly responsible for sure, along with a multitude of other things.. and guns come under that umbrella of blame

thankyougrandma

know1 wrote:

The problem is the parents.

sort of agree, but you do not raise your kids as a future killer, there's more into it, depression, mental health, guns, social situation (society).

but if it's the parent's fault, then it's the parent's parents fault, it never ends...

humanlight

dunkman1974 wrote:

i agree... but with no ready access to a gun, then the disgruntled kid doesnt have a violent outlet... sure he may kill himself and thats tragic enough, but even more tragic is the killing of innocents because you have a grudge

if the columbine high kids didnt have access to those guns and used baseball bats instead.... i'm not a betting man but i'm sure most of those gun victims would still be alive today

I understand what you are saying, I really do. But like all problems, guns are the "quick fix" not the sure answer. the real fix takes time and energy. That would be teaching parents how to parents, and teachers how to show each kid they love that child. Maybe before you buy a gun you have to take a month of parenting classes. You wanna bet how quick that would be shot down in congress. LMAO

seagoat2

"Guns don't kill people, gaping holes in vital organs kill people".....

I agree with the person who said that parents need to nurture thier children & love them. That's only part of the problem.....mental illness & the availability of guns plays a large part too. It's not just kids killing school mates, it's also disturbed older people. If guns weren't so easy to buy & use, a lot of the violence in schools (and everywhere else) would be lessened. It's a tragedy.....

Has anyone seen "Bowling for Columbine"????

chopitdown

know1 wrote:

The problem is the parents.

the problem does lie a lot with the parents. Parents aren't involved in a lot of kids lives anymore. Or the parents haven't ever told their kid "no" or disciplined them. At some point the kids are responsible but I think the the environment shapes the kids more than we know. We have parents who don't know how to parent or are too consumed with themselves and aren't nurturing or grooming their children. Look at schools, you don't have parents backing up teachers when the teacher says that little johnny is acting up...the parents believe the children. I think a lot of parents are disillusioned and they believe that their kid can't be the problem it's always the other kid...until they find out the hard way that it is their kid.

Guns aren't the problem, in my opinion. Take care of parenting, take care of kids, take care of the underlying attitudes of some in poverty and wealth, take away the glorification of violence / guns and you'll help solve the problem a lot better than banning guns. it seems that we put our value on accumulation of material possesions not on rearing children or helping others.

miller8966

dunkman1974 wrote:

they are a major part of the problem otherwise all you get is a disgruntled moron shouting bang at people... it doesnt quite have the same effect...

so with a gun the person becomes a killer, without he becomes a nobody

You sir are an idiot. Blaming guns for societies woes is just plain negligent. How about the fact that he only killed the females in the class? wouldnt sexual frustration be to blame?

EVERY LAW ABIDING CITIZEN HAS THE RIGHT TO OWN A GUN!

We need more guns not less...

humanlight

seagoat2 wrote:

"Guns don't kill people, gaping holes in vital organs kill people".....

I agree with the person who said that parents need to nurture thier children & love them. That's only part of the problem.....mental illness & the availability of guns plays a large part too. It's not just kids killing school mates, it's also disturbed older people. If guns weren't so easy to buy & use, a lot of the violence in schools (and everywhere else) would be lessened. It's a tragedy.....

Has anyone seen "Bowling for Columbine"????

Yes...I think anyway.


The most significant thing in that entire movie (if I am thinking of the right one) was the interview with Marlyn Manson.

It went something like this:

Interviewer: What would you like to tell those kids? (the shooters)
Manson: I wouldn't tell them anything, I would listen.


That is sooooo significant to me. If we would just stop and listen to our children, and let them express themselves verbally then there is no need for them to shoot.


Great example:

My highschool, my junior year....
New student dressed all in black, had his backpack thrown in lunch trash, was hit by the "jocks" and riticuled by the "preppy" people. I was a cheerlearder, so I was in the "jock" crowd. I walked over, got his backpack out of the trash, cleaned it, and sat with him during art class. I still cheered and had jocky friends, and I was best friends with the "maryln manson freak." The "freak" and I continue to be the very best of friend 8 years later. The only person I still speak to from my high school. He is very different now, and so am I. I never asked him to change his dress or beliefs or friends. he never asked me to change either. We accepted our differences and I like to think the school was a better place b/c of it. It broke down boundaries for a lot of people.

humanlight

I belive Know1 said "the problem is the parents" and by god you are right. But lets assume a child has terrible parents. Alcholics, drug addicts, abusive, what ever. this will forever and ever happen. So what do we do. Well these kids go to school, so they need to find love and appreciation there. School needs to be their haven, not another place to feel unwelcome. Children from bad homes should wake up early to go to school b/c it is a safe place where they feel loved.

chopitdown

humanlight wrote:

I belive Know1 said "the problem is the parents" and by god you are right. But lets assume a child has terrible parents. Alcholics, drug addicts, abusive, what ever. this will forever and ever happen. So what do we do. Well these kids go to school, so they need to find love and appreciation there. School needs to be their haven, not another place to feel unwelcome. Children from bad homes should wake up early to go to school b/c it is a safe place where they feel loved.

while i agree that kids need to feel safe at school and should get love (sometimes love is tough love) there, don't forget that teachers are only there a few hours more than the students. The students are at school for 6 hours a day for 9 mos...there's A LOT of time spent away from there. I really like the boys / girls clubs that help the children and the big brothers/sisters programs. I think we need to look for other avenues to help the students...teachers have their own families to worry about too.

Ahnimus

seagoat2 wrote:

"Guns don't kill people, gaping holes in vital organs kill people".....

I agree with the person who said that parents need to nurture thier children & love them. That's only part of the problem.....mental illness & the availability of guns plays a large part too. It's not just kids killing school mates, it's also disturbed older people. If guns weren't so easy to buy & use, a lot of the violence in schools (and everywhere else) would be lessened. It's a tragedy.....

Has anyone seen "Bowling for Columbine"????

Bowling for Columbine actually argues that gun laws don't make any difference at all.

Michael Moore travels to Canada where rifles are legal and there are less shootings per capita. He even goes to Toronto where he claims people leave their doors unlocked. He enters their homes through the front door and is once offered a beverage.

The problem with Michael Moore is he is a liar. He probably set up with those people before shooting. Or simply omitted the times when he was yelled at and threatened.

But, anyway, he argues that gun laws don't make a difference. The difference is cultural. I am a Canadian and I don't feel threatened by people. I live in a neighborhood with lots of violence and B&Es but I leave my doors unlocked quite often.

seagoat2

humanlight wrote:

Yes...I think anyway.


The most significant thing in that entire movie (if I am thinking of the right one) was the interview with Marlyn Manson.

It went something like this:

Interviewer: What would you like to tell those kids? (the shooters)
Manson: I wouldn't tell them anything, I would listen.


That is sooooo significant to me. If we would just stop and listen to our children, and let them express themselves verbally then there is no need for them to shoot.


Great example:

My highschool, my junior year....
New student dressed all in black, had his backpack thrown in lunch trash, was hit by the "jocks" and riticuled by the "preppy" people. I was a cheerlearder, so I was in the "jock" crowd. I walked over, got his backpack out of the trash, cleaned it, and sat with him during art class. I still cheered and had jocky friends, and I was best friends with the "maryln manson freak." The "freak" and I continue to be the very best of friend 8 years later. The only person I still speak to from my high school. He is very different now, and so am I. I never asked him to change his dress or beliefs or friends. he never asked me to change either. We accepted our differences and I like to think the school was a better place b/c of it. It broke down boundaries for a lot of people.

**Yeah, humanlight, you have the right movie.....and I agree with you about listening.....Kids can be very cruel to each other. Bullying is also part of the problem - I think it's directly related to why kids feel so desperate sometimes... Have you read a book called "Odd Girl Out" (I think that's the name of it). It's about girls bullying other girls. The story you related above reminds me of a kid at my school that everyone picked on...it also reminds me of the song "Jeremy". Parents need to be aware of how thier kids are being treated & how they feel about it....The only reason kids picked on that kid at my school was because he was quiet, shy, & dressed kind of "straight-laced" for lack of a better word. I felt sorry for him & ashamed at how the other kids teased him. Maybe his parents didn't have a lot of money to buy him cool clothes, etc. So what if he wasn't "hip", ya know? Eventually, he ended up stabbing a boy with the end of a math compass, luckily he was ok. Parents need to teach thier kids to be compassionate & tolerant. Kudos to you for being a friend when your "freaky" friend probably needed that more than anything else. A little understanding & friendship goes a long way & can change someone's life.

humanlight

chopitdown wrote:

while i agree that kids need to feel safe at school and should get love (sometimes love is tough love) there, don't forget that teachers are only there a few hours more than the students. The students are at school for 6 hours a day for 9 mos...there's A LOT of time spent away from there. I really like the boys / girls clubs that help the children and the big brothers/sisters programs. I think we need to look for other avenues to help the students...teachers have their own families to worry about too.

Agreed, but I see it all to often, that the kids that need the most understanding and support, are the very last to get it at school. I mean teachers (talking about high school) really do not ask the kids who have peircing all over, blue hair, etc to hang out after class to disscuss thier paper topics. They never ask the skate boarders at lunch to show them some cool tricks. They tell the quarterback he had a good game. When I did my internship at a very large intercity high school, I made it a point to point out something positive to every child I passed in the hall. Like in the middle of class when I was walking down the hall. "I love those shoes", "you look wonderful today." "let me know how the chess team does" etc. I had something nice to say to all of them. That is all I am asking. Give them someone to be connected to.

chopitdown

humanlight wrote:

Agreed, but I see it all to often, that the kids that need the most understanding and support, are the very last to get it at school. I mean teachers (talking about high school) really do not ask the kids who have peircing all over, blue hair, etc to hang out after class to disscuss thier paper topics. They never ask the skate boarders at lunch to show them some cool tricks. They tell the quarterback he had a good game. When I did my internship at a very large intercity high school, I made it a point to point out something positive to every child I passed in the hall. Like in the middle of class when I was walking down the hall. "I love those shoes", "you look wonderful today." "let me know how the chess team does" etc. I had something nice to say to all of them. That is all I am asking. Give them someone to be connected to.

those are great suggestions. the thing is ALL of us should try that. What's the saying, "you never know when you'll make someones day"...something cheesey like that but it def is true.

humanlight

chopitdown wrote:

those are great suggestions. the thing is ALL of us should try that. What's the saying, "you never know when you'll make someones day"...something cheesey like that but it def is true.

Exactly, this is not rocket science. Before the time of TV and Video games people had to talk for entertainment. It is not the violence so much as the actual TV itself. We no longer face each other. People set side by side in thier living rooms to see the TV instead of in a circle to see each other. I bet 99% of peoples living room is designed so that each chair has a good view of the TV! Not each other. Just talk to your kids, and when they have friend over, talk to them too. Any moment you have to show a kid that you care, should be taken advantage of. If adults would do this, then we would have far less shootings.