Yeah dude, but you gotta start somewhere, as I said, just cause it's hard, don't mean it shouldn't happen. You do live in a different culture, you have a gun culture through and through !! You worship them, you glamourise them, you trivilaise them, you totally ignore how many people they kill, you refuse to even consider for a second how un-necessary thay are. Whem I was a teenager I had a passing interest in them, teh skill involved and how closely they relate to evolving elements of primitive manhood, being powerful and a successful provider in a tribal environment, but I got over it as I matured, realising they have no place in a civilised world today.
I agree with your point of view, but I just can't see the banning route being at all effective (honestly, I see it making the problem much worse as I said) in the US.
Everything led to those things according to Frued :rolleyes:
Posting on a message pit.... It means you want to sleep with your mother
I agree with your point of view, but I just can't see the banning route being at all effective (honestly, I see it making the problem much worse as I said) in the US.
Everything led to those things according to Frued :rolleyes:
Posting on a message pit.... It means you want to sleep with your mother
I don't understand the idea that 'well the outlaws will still get them anyway' . So why not just make the law on THEIR side and GIVE them the gun when they open a new bank account??? Nah, I don't follow that.
Yes, there are guns in circulation but it makes it easier to spot the illegal ones when they're ALL illegal.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
what makes me laugh is that most gun owners say the reson they have a gun is for protection. Prtoection from what? Protection from other people with guns. It's just a cycle of violence.
And no, banning guns wouldnt solve the problem. Crack is illegal but still thousands of people manage to get hold of it.
a very good article by Joachim J. Savelsberg in the New York Law School Journal of International and Comparative Law. It's quite a good read and it explains (or tries to) the differences in gun-laws in America and Germany and the social outcomes that occur because of this. It's good coz i think it takes into account the socioeconomic perspective as well. Heres the link:
Just a summary of the last paragraph for people who don't intend to look it up, bearing in mind that gun law is much stricter in germany than it is in america:
'Let me get back to my original question before I draw a few brief conclusions. Why is there so much less gun violence in Germany? Does gun control have anything to do with it, or is it due to other differences, such as criminal punishment, societal and cultural differences? Concluding answer one: the lower rate of gun violence in Germany, especially after the 1972 law, is not the result of a tougher criminal justice system. If anything, the opposite is true. Concluding answer two: this leaves primarily two possible explanations: gun control and society. I think there are a lot of reasons to argue that in combination, both society, which determines the inclination of people to commit violent crimes, and very liberal gun control, which makes violent means available to people in a society, are what contribute to this excessive and extremely high rate of violent crime and gun violence in American society. Finally, while sociological factors and interaction effects between sociological factors and violent means are very important, I think that the German case also suggests an independent effect of gun control, and I have given some empirical data to that account.'
If Pearl Jam was a beer, they'd probably be the best beer in the world!!
a very good article by Joachim J. Savelsberg in the New York Law School Journal of International and Comparative Law. It's quite a good read and it explains (or tries to) the differences in gun-laws in America and Germany and the social outcomes that occur because of this. It's good coz i think it takes into account the socioeconomic perspective as well. Heres the link:
Just a summary of the last paragraph for people who don't intend to look it up, bearing in mind that gun law is much stricter in germany than it is in america:
'Let me get back to my original question before I draw a few brief conclusions. Why is there so much less gun violence in Germany? Does gun control have anything to do with it, or is it due to other differences, such as criminal punishment, societal and cultural differences? Concluding answer one: the lower rate of gun violence in Germany, especially after the 1972 law, is not the result of a tougher criminal justice system. If anything, the opposite is true. Concluding answer two: this leaves primarily two possible explanations: gun control and society. I think there are a lot of reasons to argue that in combination, both society, which determines the inclination of people to commit violent crimes, and very liberal gun control, which makes violent means available to people in a society, are what contribute to this excessive and extremely high rate of violent crime and gun violence in American society. Finally, while sociological factors and interaction effects between sociological factors and violent means are very important, I think that the German case also suggests an independent effect of gun control, and I have given some empirical data to that account.'
But we still need to be careful here ... Some degree of gun control is likely to save lives. But this piece does not make it super-clear what degree is appropriate. Is it also unclear if a) super restrictive gun control laws that may work in germany will work everywhere and b) what is the direction of causality? Tougher gun controls could simply reflect shifting societal attitudes, rather than causing such a shift.
I am not convinced that there is indeed an "independent effect of gun control", in Germany or anywhere else. Some gun control just makes sense. But this notion that making the laws super-harsh is beneficial? Very little data provide good support.
Why do we need to be careful ? Do you mean that gun control might encroach on your civil rights. What about the right to come home safe at the end of the day? What about the right to eat your lunch at school without your brains being blown out?
No guns equals no gun crime !!
they should advertise them for sale with the slogan
"for those of you who cant get erections, throw away the Viagra and buy a fucking gun"
bunch of pussies hiding behind guns... penile extensions for those fuckheads that need them!!
so as yet more innocent children die, there faces splattered against the blackboard, rest assured that you have that small pistol beside in order to form that militia, if the need arise, to take on your government.... you'll be too fucking busy to form a militia anyway, theres a lot of schools in America and they'll take a while to target!!
Yawn.....
Anyone who thinks that the law is why we have gun violence has lost all ability to judge with common sense......
If you start to seriously analyze it, (in the US) more crimes have been stopped by personal gun owners than crimes committed by legal gun owners....think about it.
Hint: most crimes involving guns are committed by ILLEGAL gun owners so therefore the law has already been broken and a new law doesn't change anything.....
HOB 10.05.2005, E Rutherford 06.03.2006, The Gorge 07.22.2006, Lolla 08.05.2007, West Palm 06.11.2008, Tampa 06.12.2008, Columbia 06.16.2008, EV Memphis 06.20.2009, New Orleans 05.01.2010, Kansas City 05.03.2010
Anyone who thinks that the law is why we have gun violence has lost all ability to judge with common sense......
If you start to seriously analyze it, (in the US) more crimes have been stopped by personal gun owners than crimes committed by legal gun owners....think about it.
Hint: most crimes involving guns are committed by ILLEGAL gun owners so therefore the law has already been broken and a new law doesn't change anything.....
Yep, I can see that, so we should have even more guns, that means less crime.
More crimes stopped by legal gun owners ??< What a crock of shit !!
Actually, when you analyse it, you are more likely to be shot if you are holding a gun than if you aren't.
And you can't avoid the fact that 6000 Americans die a year from gun crime !!
And you still support guns, MADNESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yep, I can see that, so we should have even more guns, that means less crime.
More crimes stopped by legal gun owners ??< What a crock of shit !!
Actually, when you analyse it, you are more likely to be shot if you are holding a gun than if you aren't.
And you can't avoid the fact that 6000 Americans die a year from gun crime !!
And you still support guns, MADNESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are obviously not even able to consider the fact that violence is not a gun thing, it is a people thing....it is so clear but to the stupid; gun laws don't make people safer, ever. Show me a stat that says I am wrong and show me one nation where the violence has decreased after gun laws were put in place that removed private ownership. You can't, I know you can't but you won't admit to it because you are more about propoganda than reality. I have no patience for idiots.
I own a gun, in fact I got two, but i have never used it in a crime.
HOB 10.05.2005, E Rutherford 06.03.2006, The Gorge 07.22.2006, Lolla 08.05.2007, West Palm 06.11.2008, Tampa 06.12.2008, Columbia 06.16.2008, EV Memphis 06.20.2009, New Orleans 05.01.2010, Kansas City 05.03.2010
Anyone who thinks that the law is why we have gun violence has lost all ability to judge with common sense......
If you start to seriously analyze it, (in the US) more crimes have been stopped by personal gun owners than crimes committed by legal gun owners....think about it.
Hint: most crimes involving guns are committed by ILLEGAL gun owners so therefore the law has already been broken and a new law doesn't change anything.....
*wakes up to find another post of fantastic ignorance*
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
You are obviously not even able to consider the fact that violence is not a gun thing, it is a people thing....it is so clear but to the stupid; gun laws don't make people safer, ever. Show me a stat that says I am wrong and show me one nation where the violence has decreased after gun laws were put in place that removed private ownership. You can't, I know you can't but you won't admit to it because you are more about propoganda than reality. I have no patience for idiots.
Drop in gun crime figures
23/09/2003
Statistics published today show a two per cent fall in the number of offences involving firearms, bringing the 2002 level to 48 per cent lower than in 1992.
Justice Minister Cathy Jamieson today welcomed the drop in the number of firearm offences reported last year.
Ms Jamieson said:
"We are working to deliver a safer, strongerScotland. I welcome the fact that in the last ten years the number of crimes involving firearms has reduced considerably.
The total number of recorded crimes and offences involving the alleged use of a firearm decreased from 1,773 in 1993 to 1,014 in 2002, a decrease of 43 per cent.
The number of homicides decreased from eight in 1993 to three in 2002, and attempted murders nearly halved from 44 in 1993 to 24 in 2002.
In 2002, 20 incidents involved the alleged use of a shotgun, less than one tenth of the 255 such incidents recorded in 1993 and the lowest figure ever recorded.
Incidents where a firearm was fired and damaged property more than halved from 654 in 1993 to 312 in 2002, and the number of occasions when a firearm was used to threaten has decreased by two thirds from 594 to 195 between 1993 and 2002.
The percentage of crimes and offences cleared up has increased over the last 10 years, currently standing at 51 per cent of all firearm incidents recorded compared to 39 per cent in 1993.
all this after a ban was introduced
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
You are obviously not even able to consider the fact that violence is not a gun thing, it is a people thing....it is so clear but to the stupid; gun laws don't make people safer, ever. Show me a stat that says I am wrong and show me one nation where the violence has decreased after gun laws were put in place that removed private ownership. You can't, I know you can't but you won't admit to it because you are more about propoganda than reality. I have no patience for idiots.
I own a gun, in fact I got two, but i have never used it in a crime.
In contrast to England and Wales, in Scotland gun crime has fallen significantly since it peaked in the mid-1990s. The total number of offences in 2002 (1014) was down by 2% from 2001 and by nearly 30% since 1996. The total number of homicides was three.
The number of incidents involving an unknown type of firearm has increased in recent years, owing to a change in the way in which the largest police forces such as Strathclyde and Lothian and Borders record gun crime. Until recently if the firearm involved had not been identified a guess was made about its type. In most cases this was an air gun. Now no guess is made and it is recorded as unknown.
The Scottish figures show that it is wrong to conclude that there is a gun crime wave sweeping the UK, and emphasise that gun crime tends to be concentrated in a relatively few specific locations, mostly inner city areas in England.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
You are obviously not even able to consider the fact that violence is not a gun thing, it is a people thing....it is so clear but to the stupid; gun laws don't make people safer, ever. Show me a stat that says I am wrong and show me one nation where the violence has decreased after gun laws were put in place that removed private ownership. You can't, I know you can't but you won't admit to it because you are more about propoganda than reality. I have no patience for idiots.
I own a gun, in fact I got two, but i have never used it in a crime.
And you can't avoid the fact that 6000 Americans die a year from gun crime !!
And you still support guns, MADNESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the figures are actually way higher than that... 31000 a year on average, 6000 are kids under the age of 14, which is awesome... i love kids but america feels it has way too many so they allow them to play with guns.
go guns... so cool!!! :cool:
got a gun, fact i got two... thats ok man cos i hate kids
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
You are obviously not even able to consider the fact that violence is not a gun thing, it is a people thing....it is so clear but to the stupid; gun laws don't make people safer, ever. Show me a stat that says I am wrong and show me one nation where the violence has decreased after gun laws were put in place that removed private ownership. You can't, I know you can't but you won't admit to it because you are more about propoganda than reality. I have no patience for idiots.
I own a gun, in fact I got two, but i have never used it in a crime.
i can name a country. australia.
after a massacre a few years back our government brought in gun laws restricting the ownership of rifles(we have never been allowed to have handguns). since then guess what? no more massacres. but then again we weren't a terribly violent country in the first place.
i too have no patience for idiots.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i can name a country. australia.
after a massacre a few years back our government brought in gun laws restricting the ownership of rifles(we have never been allowed to have handguns). since then guess what? no more massacres. but then again we weren't a terribly violent country in the first place.
i too have no patience for idiots.
Hey cate, we agree on something, I posted a bunch of stuff on Oz gun laws a few pages back, but guess what, the Appalachian Americans just ignored it !!
Um, care to explain the logic behind this comment?
Lol, I thought it was self explanatory! If ALL guns are illegal and I spot someone with a gun, then I KNOW it's illegal and can report that person :rolleyes:
Wow, I haven't posted here in months and I have to say it's refreshing to come back and find such an original thread - gun control hasn't been discussed before as far as I'm aware
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Violence may be a people thing, but guns amplify the damage. Harsh language, fistcuffs or even knives cannot mow people down like chaff !!
BANG BANG !! You're dead !!
Sadly, all this discussion is pointless. There is no political will in the USA for gun control so .........."How much difference will it make ?"
Violence may be a people thing, but guns amplify the damage. Harsh language, fistcuffs or even knives cannot mow people down like chaff !!
BANG BANG !! You're dead !!
Sadly, all this discussion is pointless. There is no political will in the USA for gun control so .........."How much difference will it make ?"
I agree that this discussion is pointless, because people are condescending and close-minded and don't care to listen to reasonable arguments.
I agree that this discussion is pointless, because people are condescending and close-minded and don't care to listen to reasonable arguments.
So, while you are reasonably arguing in favour of guns, kids die because us close-minded anti-gunners won't accept that guns are OK.
Yeah, I can see that, I'm gonna go buy a gun today in the spirit of free thinking.
Hang on, I can't, I have to join a gun club, do a firearm safety course, wait six weeks, and get a gun cabinet, cause I live in gun-free country with no gun crime.
Damn, guess I'll have to remain a gun-free ignoramus !!
they should advertise them for sale with the slogan
"for those of you who cant get erections, throw away the Viagra and buy a fucking gun"
bunch of pussies hiding behind guns... penile extensions for those fuckheads that need them!!
so as yet more innocent children die, there faces splattered against the blackboard, rest assured that you have that small pistol beside in order to form that militia, if the need arise, to take on your government.... you'll be too fucking busy to form a militia anyway, theres a lot of schools in America and they'll take a while to target!!
not to change the subject but thats a pretty cool signature you got there.
...It's only after disaster that we can be resurrected...
it's only after you've lost everything ...that you are free to do anything....(Fight Club)
the figures are actually way higher than that... 31000 a year on average, 6000 are kids under the age of 14, which is awesome... i love kids but america feels it has way too many so they allow them to play with guns.
go guns... so cool!!! :cool:
got a gun, fact i got two... thats ok man cos i hate kids
So, as the bells were literally still tolling in Amish Pennsylvania, another 13 year-old kid in Missouri walks into his school and shoots the joint up with an AK-47. I'm not shittin ya.
Memo to America: this shit isn't happening in any other western country, at least not to this degree, or with such frequency. YOU NEED TO CHANGE.
So, as the bells were literally still tolling in Amish Pennsylvania, another 13 year-old kid in Missouri walks into his school and shoots the joint up with an AK-47. I'm not shittin ya.
Memo to America: this shit isn't happening in any other western country, at least not to this degree, or with such frequency. YOU NEED TO CHANGE.
I don't get it...why is there this apparent bias that the guns are the problem and that if we just all had our guns siezed by our government then we would all be safe.
We got lots of problems in the US with drugs and violence that all perpuate the crime cycle. And it is in small towns and rural areas too. The % are low so it will probably never happen to YOU, but it will happen to someone if you know what I mean.
But, I don't have any sense that legal gun owners are the problem in the US, especially if you look at the numbers and %. So everyone who said I was an idiot or mad or lived in the Appalachias needs to consider the basic fact that legal gun ownership is not the problem. There are many problems that contribute but that is not the problem.
All you who live in societies that don't allow ownership of guns need to understand that your way isn't going to be our way. It is our second amendment right to own firearms, legally. And it is such a myth that people believe that it is our ownership of guns that causes violence. Our culture has crime driven by race factors, poverty factors, violence in media, etc. If you want to find gun violence in my city I can tell you exactly where to go and it is isolated to a part of town where the people are frankly young black and stupid, and I mean dumber than a box of rocks because they have a total breakdown in the family structures caused by many other factors (teen pregnancy, drugs, fathers lost, etc). Sorry for the bluntness but that is fact and it is true whether you like it or not. In the last ten years it now includes Hispanic neighborhoods.
But then I have several guns, have kids and everything is locked up and safe. But we know how to use them but we don't hardly ever. It isn't an obsession, just a hobby. Harmless as driving a car in a school zone.
HOB 10.05.2005, E Rutherford 06.03.2006, The Gorge 07.22.2006, Lolla 08.05.2007, West Palm 06.11.2008, Tampa 06.12.2008, Columbia 06.16.2008, EV Memphis 06.20.2009, New Orleans 05.01.2010, Kansas City 05.03.2010
But, I don't have any sense that legal gun owners are the problem in the US, especially if you look at the numbers and %.
ok.. i have, and you have, on average, 5 kids under the age of 14, killed with a legally owned handgun per day in America.
In the Uk the figure is 0... ZERO kids under the age of 14 are killed per day with a legally owned handgun.
in fact the american stats (from your own governments websites) show "Kids in America are 12 times more likely to be killed by a gun than kids in 25 other industrialized nations combined.
The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged less than 15 years was nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized countries combined."
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I'm not gonna go back and read 86 posts here. Instead, even if its been said before, just let me say the following.....
The U.S. has never really clued-in to the idea of communal welfare. They don't have it vis-a-vis guns, they don't have it wrt socialized medicine, and they don't have it in several other areas. In America, personal rights are king, and are irrespective of the harm that society as a whole may otherwise have to bear. As it relates to guns, per se, this poses a serious problem. Why ? Because beyond of the best intentions of the legal/responsible gunowners, is a variable that cannot be controlled - i.e.: the disturbed kid that breaks into his fathers gun stash, the disgruntled employee who will do anything to seek revenge, that temporaily insane husband(or wife) who just found their partner cheating, etc.... And what other countries have said, essentially, is that even if its not fair to the legal gunowners, we still feel that more stringent gun laws are necccesary for the greater safety of *ALL* citizens. In effect, they are attempting to control these unstable variables.
Personally, you couldn't pay me to have a gun in my family home. Never.
The U.S. has never really clued-in to the idea of communal welfare. They don't have it vis-a-vis guns, they don't have it wrt socialized medicine, and they don't have it in several other areas. In America, personal rights are king,
Perhaps we have "clued-in" and rejected that notion. Personal rights are king.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
The thing is though, is that the guy who killed all the kids yesterday, was a responsible member of society. Something obviously made him snap, and the ready ability to obtain guns in America allowed him the opportunity to go on a shooting rampage. If guns weren't so easily obtainable in America, would he have gone on a killing spree with a gun? Unlikely. You can say all you like about he'd still have got his hands on a gun, but that's just hearsay, and, is in all likelihood, complete bollocks. For example, if i snapped tomorrow, I wouldn't have a clue where to get a gun from, and all law abiding citizens are the same.
Now, you can say too that criminals would still have guns, which may be true, but how many criminals (and i mean the career criminals who are likely to know where to get a gun from, not just random nutters) do you hear go on shooting spree's, killing innocent kids?
And, you won't be able to un-glamorise the gun until you ban it. Kids are being sent mixed signals if you say on one hand guns are bad, then on the other allow people to arm themselves.
this is it, i just cant understand how some people fail to understand this, of course sadly there will always be killing, but without any old joe having access to a gun youll find a large drop in gun crime and incidents such as this recent tragedy. banning guns isnt the only answer but surely its the first step?
Comments
Everything led to those things according to Frued :rolleyes:
Posting on a message pit.... It means you want to sleep with your mother
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
Yes, there are guns in circulation but it makes it easier to spot the illegal ones when they're ALL illegal.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Um, care to explain the logic behind this comment?
And no, banning guns wouldnt solve the problem. Crack is illegal but still thousands of people manage to get hold of it.
http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Savelsberg1.html
Just a summary of the last paragraph for people who don't intend to look it up, bearing in mind that gun law is much stricter in germany than it is in america:
'Let me get back to my original question before I draw a few brief conclusions. Why is there so much less gun violence in Germany? Does gun control have anything to do with it, or is it due to other differences, such as criminal punishment, societal and cultural differences? Concluding answer one: the lower rate of gun violence in Germany, especially after the 1972 law, is not the result of a tougher criminal justice system. If anything, the opposite is true. Concluding answer two: this leaves primarily two possible explanations: gun control and society. I think there are a lot of reasons to argue that in combination, both society, which determines the inclination of people to commit violent crimes, and very liberal gun control, which makes violent means available to people in a society, are what contribute to this excessive and extremely high rate of violent crime and gun violence in American society. Finally, while sociological factors and interaction effects between sociological factors and violent means are very important, I think that the German case also suggests an independent effect of gun control, and I have given some empirical data to that account.'
But we still need to be careful here ... Some degree of gun control is likely to save lives. But this piece does not make it super-clear what degree is appropriate. Is it also unclear if a) super restrictive gun control laws that may work in germany will work everywhere and b) what is the direction of causality? Tougher gun controls could simply reflect shifting societal attitudes, rather than causing such a shift.
I am not convinced that there is indeed an "independent effect of gun control", in Germany or anywhere else. Some gun control just makes sense. But this notion that making the laws super-harsh is beneficial? Very little data provide good support.
No guns equals no gun crime !!
Yawn.....
Anyone who thinks that the law is why we have gun violence has lost all ability to judge with common sense......
If you start to seriously analyze it, (in the US) more crimes have been stopped by personal gun owners than crimes committed by legal gun owners....think about it.
Hint: most crimes involving guns are committed by ILLEGAL gun owners so therefore the law has already been broken and a new law doesn't change anything.....
Yep, I can see that, so we should have even more guns, that means less crime.
More crimes stopped by legal gun owners ??< What a crock of shit !!
Actually, when you analyse it, you are more likely to be shot if you are holding a gun than if you aren't.
And you can't avoid the fact that 6000 Americans die a year from gun crime !!
And you still support guns, MADNESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are obviously not even able to consider the fact that violence is not a gun thing, it is a people thing....it is so clear but to the stupid; gun laws don't make people safer, ever. Show me a stat that says I am wrong and show me one nation where the violence has decreased after gun laws were put in place that removed private ownership. You can't, I know you can't but you won't admit to it because you are more about propoganda than reality. I have no patience for idiots.
I own a gun, in fact I got two, but i have never used it in a crime.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
*wakes up to find another post of fantastic ignorance*
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Drop in gun crime figures
23/09/2003
Statistics published today show a two per cent fall in the number of offences involving firearms, bringing the 2002 level to 48 per cent lower than in 1992.
Justice Minister Cathy Jamieson today welcomed the drop in the number of firearm offences reported last year.
Ms Jamieson said:
"We are working to deliver a safer, strongerScotland. I welcome the fact that in the last ten years the number of crimes involving firearms has reduced considerably.
The total number of recorded crimes and offences involving the alleged use of a firearm decreased from 1,773 in 1993 to 1,014 in 2002, a decrease of 43 per cent.
The number of homicides decreased from eight in 1993 to three in 2002, and attempted murders nearly halved from 44 in 1993 to 24 in 2002.
In 2002, 20 incidents involved the alleged use of a shotgun, less than one tenth of the 255 such incidents recorded in 1993 and the lowest figure ever recorded.
Incidents where a firearm was fired and damaged property more than halved from 654 in 1993 to 312 in 2002, and the number of occasions when a firearm was used to threaten has decreased by two thirds from 594 to 195 between 1993 and 2002.
The percentage of crimes and offences cleared up has increased over the last 10 years, currently standing at 51 per cent of all firearm incidents recorded compared to 39 per cent in 1993.
all this after a ban was introduced
In contrast to England and Wales, in Scotland gun crime has fallen significantly since it peaked in the mid-1990s. The total number of offences in 2002 (1014) was down by 2% from 2001 and by nearly 30% since 1996. The total number of homicides was three.
The number of incidents involving an unknown type of firearm has increased in recent years, owing to a change in the way in which the largest police forces such as Strathclyde and Lothian and Borders record gun crime. Until recently if the firearm involved had not been identified a guess was made about its type. In most cases this was an air gun. Now no guess is made and it is recorded as unknown.
The Scottish figures show that it is wrong to conclude that there is a gun crime wave sweeping the UK, and emphasise that gun crime tends to be concentrated in a relatively few specific locations, mostly inner city areas in England.
So you have no patience for your self then.
the figures are actually way higher than that... 31000 a year on average, 6000 are kids under the age of 14, which is awesome... i love kids but america feels it has way too many so they allow them to play with guns.
go guns... so cool!!! :cool:
got a gun, fact i got two... thats ok man cos i hate kids
i can name a country. australia.
after a massacre a few years back our government brought in gun laws restricting the ownership of rifles(we have never been allowed to have handguns). since then guess what? no more massacres. but then again we weren't a terribly violent country in the first place.
i too have no patience for idiots.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Hey cate, we agree on something, I posted a bunch of stuff on Oz gun laws a few pages back, but guess what, the Appalachian Americans just ignored it !!
Wow, I haven't posted here in months and I have to say it's refreshing to come back and find such an original thread - gun control hasn't been discussed before as far as I'm aware
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
BANG BANG !! You're dead !!
Sadly, all this discussion is pointless. There is no political will in the USA for gun control so .........."How much difference will it make ?"
I agree that this discussion is pointless, because people are condescending and close-minded and don't care to listen to reasonable arguments.
So, while you are reasonably arguing in favour of guns, kids die because us close-minded anti-gunners won't accept that guns are OK.
Yeah, I can see that, I'm gonna go buy a gun today in the spirit of free thinking.
Hang on, I can't, I have to join a gun club, do a firearm safety course, wait six weeks, and get a gun cabinet, cause I live in gun-free country with no gun crime.
Damn, guess I'll have to remain a gun-free ignoramus !!
not to change the subject but thats a pretty cool signature you got there.
it's only after you've lost everything ...that you are free to do anything....(Fight Club)
... I'll ride the wave...where it takes me....
So, as the bells were literally still tolling in Amish Pennsylvania, another 13 year-old kid in Missouri walks into his school and shoots the joint up with an AK-47. I'm not shittin ya.
Memo to America: this shit isn't happening in any other western country, at least not to this degree, or with such frequency. YOU NEED TO CHANGE.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1160398086998&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home
I don't get it...why is there this apparent bias that the guns are the problem and that if we just all had our guns siezed by our government then we would all be safe.
We got lots of problems in the US with drugs and violence that all perpuate the crime cycle. And it is in small towns and rural areas too. The % are low so it will probably never happen to YOU, but it will happen to someone if you know what I mean.
But, I don't have any sense that legal gun owners are the problem in the US, especially if you look at the numbers and %. So everyone who said I was an idiot or mad or lived in the Appalachias needs to consider the basic fact that legal gun ownership is not the problem. There are many problems that contribute but that is not the problem.
All you who live in societies that don't allow ownership of guns need to understand that your way isn't going to be our way. It is our second amendment right to own firearms, legally. And it is such a myth that people believe that it is our ownership of guns that causes violence. Our culture has crime driven by race factors, poverty factors, violence in media, etc. If you want to find gun violence in my city I can tell you exactly where to go and it is isolated to a part of town where the people are frankly young black and stupid, and I mean dumber than a box of rocks because they have a total breakdown in the family structures caused by many other factors (teen pregnancy, drugs, fathers lost, etc). Sorry for the bluntness but that is fact and it is true whether you like it or not. In the last ten years it now includes Hispanic neighborhoods.
But then I have several guns, have kids and everything is locked up and safe. But we know how to use them but we don't hardly ever. It isn't an obsession, just a hobby. Harmless as driving a car in a school zone.
ok.. i have, and you have, on average, 5 kids under the age of 14, killed with a legally owned handgun per day in America.
In the Uk the figure is 0... ZERO kids under the age of 14 are killed per day with a legally owned handgun.
in fact the american stats (from your own governments websites) show "Kids in America are 12 times more likely to be killed by a gun than kids in 25 other industrialized nations combined.
The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged less than 15 years was nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized countries combined."
The U.S. has never really clued-in to the idea of communal welfare. They don't have it vis-a-vis guns, they don't have it wrt socialized medicine, and they don't have it in several other areas. In America, personal rights are king, and are irrespective of the harm that society as a whole may otherwise have to bear. As it relates to guns, per se, this poses a serious problem. Why ? Because beyond of the best intentions of the legal/responsible gunowners, is a variable that cannot be controlled - i.e.: the disturbed kid that breaks into his fathers gun stash, the disgruntled employee who will do anything to seek revenge, that temporaily insane husband(or wife) who just found their partner cheating, etc.... And what other countries have said, essentially, is that even if its not fair to the legal gunowners, we still feel that more stringent gun laws are necccesary for the greater safety of *ALL* citizens. In effect, they are attempting to control these unstable variables.
Personally, you couldn't pay me to have a gun in my family home. Never.
Perhaps we have "clued-in" and rejected that notion. Personal rights are king.
Well then, by all means, let the carnage continue......
this is it, i just cant understand how some people fail to understand this, of course sadly there will always be killing, but without any old joe having access to a gun youll find a large drop in gun crime and incidents such as this recent tragedy. banning guns isnt the only answer but surely its the first step?