more kids shot in US schools... awesome gun laws!!!

chopitdown

humanlight wrote:

Exactly, this is not rocket science. Before the time of TV and Video games people had to talk for entertainment. It is not the violence so much as the actual TV itself. We no longer face each other. People set side by side in thier living rooms to see the TV instead of in a circle to see each other. I bet 99% of peoples living room is designed so that each chair has a good view of the TV! Not each other. Just talk to your kids, and when they have friend over, talk to them too. Any moment you have to show a kid that you care, should be taken advantage of. If adults would do this, then we would have far less shootings.

i went to a talk last friday on kids and activity / obesity. The stats show that tv watching has stayed relatively the same over the last 20 or so years (~3 hours a day) HOWEVER, there is an increase in internet and computer game use that was not prevelent in the last 20 years. So in full support of what you say, we are now spending even more time isolated and not interacting face to face. I think it's def time we turn off the tv and act like families again...as hokey as the 50's sounded, you have to wonder if they were on to something in some regards.

enharmonic

Gun laws will stop criminals from getting guns as well as drug laws have stopped them from getting drugs.

Criminals don't play by the rules...and putting the clamps on the rights of law abiding citizens with regard to gun laws is like punishing a teacher because a kid who refuses to study is illiterate.

therover

dunkman1974 wrote:

worst post i've ever read on this forum... and i've read a lot of Pychosinlove's posts

Yeah, sorry about the Highlander. Couldn't help myself.

If you get rid of all the humans, guns can't kill.

If you get rid of all the guns, humans can still kill.

duggro

dunkman1974 wrote:

i belive that no-one else has ever quoted Izzard on this forum except you and I :cool:

comedians always say it best

theres a simple reason for that dunk

we are cooler than everyone else

nuff said

pushmepullme

The thing is though, is that the guy who killed all the kids yesterday, was a responsible member of society. Something obviously made him snap, and the ready ability to obtain guns in America allowed him the opportunity to go on a shooting rampage. If guns weren't so easily obtainable in America, would he have gone on a killing spree with a gun? Unlikely. You can say all you like about he'd still have got his hands on a gun, but that's just hearsay, and, is in all likelihood, complete bollocks. For example, if i snapped tomorrow, I wouldn't have a clue where to get a gun from, and all law abiding citizens are the same.
Now, you can say too that criminals would still have guns, which may be true, but how many criminals (and i mean the career criminals who are likely to know where to get a gun from, not just random nutters) do you hear go on shooting spree's, killing innocent kids?
And, you won't be able to un-glamorise the gun until you ban it. Kids are being sent mixed signals if you say on one hand guns are bad, then on the other allow people to arm themselves.

jlew24asu

pushmepullme wrote:

The thing is though, is that the guy who killed all the kids yesterday, was a responsible member of society. Something obviously made him snap, and the ready ability to obtain guns in America allowed him the opportunity to go on a shooting rampage. If guns weren't so easily obtainable in America, would he have gone on a killing spree with a gun? Unlikely. You can say all you like about he'd still have got his hands on a gun, but that's just hearsay, and, is in all likelihood, complete bollocks. For example, if i snapped tomorrow, I wouldn't have a clue where to get a gun from, and all law abiding citizens are the same.
Now, you can say too that criminals would still have guns, which may be true, but how many criminals (and i mean the career criminals who are likely to know where to get a gun from, not just random nutters) do you hear go on shooting spree's, killing innocent kids?
And, you won't be able to un-glamorise the gun until you ban it. Kids are being sent mixed signals if you say on one hand guns are bad, then on the other allow people to arm themselves.

I was thinking along these same lines as well. I am admittly bias because I hate guns but if guns were illegal or extremely difficult to get, I wouldnt have a clue on how to get one to go on a rampage. by all acounts this guy was a normal family man and scary as hell how he just snapped. his family made a statement saying how shocked they were. i dont get it.

BarkingDogs

NCfan wrote:

Guns are NOT the problem. They are prolific tools for killing, but it's the person who pulls the trigger that is the problem.

Far too many people are responsible with guns than are irresponsible. Just like cars, drugs... etc. I think people doing these fucked up deeds is more a product of living in our times than it is easy access to guns.

It's our society, not our gun laws.

Very well put. I grew up in a house with approximately 15+ weapons. ALL were under lock and key, only accessible by an adult. I now own those weapons, and they remain under lock and key. Being around weapons, or having access to weapons, does not make you a killer. I learned to target shoot and hunt under the supervison of an adult.

I'm definately no criminal now, in fact I have spent the last 22 years as a paramedic and firefighter. I have seen what poor parenting can lead to, and that includes gun violence. I recently treated a 7 year old that was shot accidently by a sibling because the stupid ass mother kept her handgun in a tote bag with her childrens video game console. They had no idea it was a real weapon, luckily the child only recieved minor injuries.
It all boils down to adults taking responsibility for there kids and their own actions.
If people would grow up and stop expecting the government to hold their hand throughout life, stop trying to have the schools raise their children and bring back corpral punishment in schools (yes, I got paddled in school, including high school), we would all be better off....INCLUDING THE KIDS!

lucylespian

3500 people died in the USA when the Trade Towers fell, and a world war started, 6000 americans die every year from gun crime and you don't give a shit! Most killings are by a first degreee relative.
Yes you have a major established problem, but's that's no reason to excuse it.
In Australia, after the Port Arthur massacre, the government banned all semi-automatic weapons and bought back the guns,also licenced firearms must be stored in a locked place, with the bolt removed with the ammo stored in a separate locked compartment. All gun owners must complete a firearms safety course and be a current member of a gun club.
Guess what, 10 yrs later the idiots who buried their guns to avoid the buy-back have forgotten where they buried them and NO MORE GUN CRIME!!!!
The only fatal firearm crimes in Australia are bikies shooting each other occasionally and the odd police shooting.
When you think, "I want to kill you " here, you have to reach further than your pocket.!!! If you want to buy a gun you haev to wait 6 weeks, time to cool off !!
That whole gun in a handbag story just re-inforces the point.

Pearl Jam and toast

Lizard wrote:

And drugs too!!

I am NOT pro-guns BUT even if they were outlawed, I think the "bad guys" would still get them.

I HATE guns.

HATEHATEHATEHATEHATEHATEHATE them.

Loathe them.

But if we ban them it's just going to cause more problems..

Look at the war on drugs..

We ban them what's going to happen?

People that want them will get them illegally which funds crime.

They banned liquor with the 18th amendment and soon after that the mob took over the liquor raquet and made millions. The Kennedy family is what they are because of it, that's how big it was.

Gun control (as well as drug control) needs to be more progressive than that.

FinsburyParkCarrots

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

I HATE guns.

HATEHATEHATEHATEHATEHATEHATE them.

Loathe them.

But if we ban them it's just going to cause more problems..

Look at the war on drugs..

We ban them what's going to happen?

People that want them will get them illegally which funds crime.

They banned liquor with the 18th amendment and soon after that the mob took over the liquor raquet and made millions. The Kennedy family is what they are because of it, that's how big it was.

Gun control (as well as drug control) needs to be more progressive than that.

If you legalise drugs, you'll cut out the main source of contraband revenue for organised crime. Drugs are often exchanged, in countries where firearms are banned without licence, for all sorts of guns: but if you legalise the drugs, then where's the need for a lot of firearms trafficking? It's gone, largely! You make great steps toward eliminating the problem, there and then. So, without demand for arms, the supply will dwindle: organised crime can no longer perpetuate to such a degree.

Who wants/needs guns, then? Licenced huntsmen? Okay, apply for a licence. Do the paperwork, to be qualified to own a weapon. There's a marginal risk that a licenced gun owner might go off and commit a crime similar to the ones we've seen recently, for complex reasons, but the possibility of the frequency of such massacres would be reduced, considerably.

What I'm saying - which dovetails with your point - is that the legalisation of drugs would cut out a large demand for contraband guns, should guns be banned. There's gun crime here in the UK, and gangs get hold of guns easily: they need them to maintain their drugs empires, since recreational drugs are bought and sold off legal limits.

lucylespian

"People that want them will get them illegally which funds crime.", this was a quote, but I am crap at quoting teh bit I want .

Didn't happen in Australia, or any other country without handguns, amazing how Europe and most of Asia copes without guns in pockets.

Pearl Jam and toast

lucylespian wrote:

"People that want them will get them illegally which funds crime.", this was a quote, but I am crap at quoting teh bit I want .

Didn't happen in Australia, or any other country without handguns, amazing how Europe and most of Asia copes without guns in pockets.

As cliche as it sounds, Americans live in a different culture than Europeans/Aussies. Plus we have an enormous amount of people and land to govern such laws on.. it becomes more complex from there.

I love what you said Mr. Carrots, I agree 100%

By the way... Europe has GREATLY eased their stress on the 'war on drugs'.. any connection with that and their impressively lower crime rates? ^_^

paisley

That is the ignorant attitude that pisses me off.

It's not the guns, it's the fucking laws that need readjusting.

Just like when someone drives drunk, wrecks and kills people, it's not the car or the alcohol that is the problem... it's the person.

trappedinmyradio

in your sarcasm you fail to realize that people get guns through unscrupulous means...people that abide by gun laws will abide by laws...people that will circumvent laws are going to circuvent whatever laws are in place. this is one thing i believe in strongly. take away the guns from the citizenry and the only people that have guns will be the government and the criminals. great life.

dunkman1974 wrote:

so cool.... guns are the awesomest!!!!

they should advertise them for sale with the slogan

"for those of you who cant get erections, throw away the Viagra and buy a fucking gun"


bunch of pussies hiding behind guns... penile extensions for those fuckheads that need them!!


so as yet more innocent children die, there faces splattered against the blackboard, rest assured that you have that small pistol beside in order to form that militia, if the need arise, to take on your government.... you'll be too fucking busy to form a militia anyway, theres a lot of schools in America and they'll take a while to target!!

69charger

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

I HATE guns.

HATEHATEHATEHATEHATEHATEHATE them.

Loathe them.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." -- Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanlysis (1952)

trappedinmyradio

69charger wrote:

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." -- Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanlysis (1952)

sigmund freud was an idiot.

FinsburyParkCarrots

69charger wrote:

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." -- Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanlysis (1952)

Freud was the ultimate false-consciousness ridden capitalist, dehistoricising and ironically fetishising the socio-ideological psychopathology of his war-ridden age, as some timeless and universal, "psychosexual" human condition.

Now, back to the topic.

lucylespian

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

As cliche as it sounds, Americans live in a different culture than Europeans/Aussies. Plus we have an enormous amount of people and land to govern such laws on.. it becomes more complex from there.

I love what you said Mr. Carrots, I agree 100%

By the way... Europe has GREATLY eased their stress on the 'war on drugs'.. any connection with that and their impressively lower crime rates? ^_^

Yeah dude, but you gotta start somewhere, as I said, just cause it's hard, don't mean it shouldn't happen. You do live in a different culture, you have a gun culture through and through !! You worship them, you glamourise them, you trivilaise them, you totally ignore how many people they kill, you refuse to even consider for a second how un-necessary thay are. Whem I was a teenager I had a passing interest in them, teh skill involved and how closely they relate to evolving elements of primitive manhood, being powerful and a successful provider in a tribal environment, but I got over it as I matured, realising they have no place in a civilised world today.

69charger

trappedinmyradio wrote:

sigmund freud was an idiot.

So I take it you are a Scientologist?

dunkman

trappedinmyradio wrote:

take away the guns from the citizenry and the only people that have guns will be the government and the criminals. great life.

so just like Australia, UK, Italy, Germany, Japan, etc etc etc... then??? :rolleyes:

and it is indeed a 'great life' and i'll tell you why..

you think you need guns to feel safe, yet wouldnt you feel more safe in the knowledge that no-one had a gun?

i.e. i can give the finger to someone who cuts me up on the road with the full knowledge that i wont get my face blown off... but in the US i could have a 'bigger' problem if that guy then stops his car and gets out and waves a gun in my face.

you are just perpetuating the circle of fear by saying you need a gun to feel safe... safe from whom, other people with guns??? if those people didnt have guns then you wouldnt need to be scared in the first place!