Wow, that was a great read, I think it sums up very eloquently what happened. Yes, those days were very complex and as Mr. Toro states what happened was never properly investigated. Actually, in 2004 Danilo Anderson (pro-Chavez prosecutor) was found dead in very obscure circumstances.
Wow, that was a great read, I think it sums up very eloquently what happened. Yes, those days were very complex and as Mr. Toro states what happened was never properly investigated. Actually, in 2004 Danilo Anderson (pro-Chavez prosecutor) was found dead in very obscure circumstances.
I thought it was a great read myself. Toro also has a blogsite, and he doesn't hide his anti-chavista sentiments there. I don't hold this against him, at least not in regard to the article in question. I thought it seemed very fair, and well-written.
I thought it was a great read myself. Toro also has a blogsite, and he doesn't hide his anti-chavista sentiments there. I don't hold this against him, at least not in regard to the article in question. I thought it seemed very fair, and well-written.
I realized he was anti-Chavez while reading his article, however he comes as a rational person and tried to portray the events in a balanced manner. He stated was I was trying to convey, in a hurry 'cause I was at work. I strongly disagree with the fact that TV channels did not condemn the Coup d'Etat, it was anti-democratic, the only way to overthrow Chavez should be through popular vote. However, none of the networks actually participated in the attempt. Actually, such claims begun when Chavez, out of the blue, in his radio-show (Alo Presidente) said something like this "Hmm, RCTV license is about to expire, well they better find another job 'cause I won't renew it".
Not a single investigation was carried out to prove RCTV's involvement in the failed attempt to overthrow Chavez and neither him nor his allies presented a formal complaint in Judiciary instances. Considering that the Justice is in his power it would be a piece of cake to do so, but there is no evidence. The accusations against the alleged participation of the channel in the 2002 events begun this year, when Chavez decided that he was going to rule the country for 18 months without the help of the Congress (composed in its entirety by Chavez supporters, by the way)
My main beef with the shutting down of RCTV is not the channel per se, it is the fact that Chavez is slowly but firmly advancing and concentrating power and the message this RCTV affair sends it is both powerful and frightening. Now media outlets will think twice or thrice before showing a news story that does not favor the government. He also threatened the other private channels with shutting them down for 72 hours if they dared to show the statements released by the Inter American Press Asociation, Human Rights Watch, Reporters without Borders, NGO's and such protesting the shutting down of the network. Last but not least he has stated that any channel that gives air-time to RCTV will be punished and tried for treason to the country. The channel won't be able to broadcast at all, so yesterday over 3,000 people lost their jobs.
And I just heard Nicolas Maduro (Vzla's chancellor, i.e. Foreign Affairs Minister) saying in CNN en español (in spanish) that this is just the beginning, they will review every single license of TV channels and radio stations. I believe they are in the process of trying to "own" the media as whole. I'm sorry but this is a clear attempt to shut up dissent and hinders freedom of speech.
We'll have to wait and see what happens, so far the first day of the new channel did nothing of what the government promised it would do (cultural and educational programming, with independence from the government agenda), so far it has been Chavez propaganda...
I realized he was anti-Chavez while reading his article, however he comes as a rational person and tried to portray the events in a balanced manner. He stated was I was trying to convey, in a hurry 'cause I was at work. I strongly disagree with the fact that TV channels did not condemn the Coup d'Etat, it was anti-democratic, the only way to overthrow Chavez should be through popular vote. However, none of the networks actually participated in the attempt. Actually, such claims begun when Chavez, out of the blue, in his radio-show (Alo Presidente) said something like this "Hmm, RCTV license is about to expire, well they better find another job 'cause I won't renew it".
Not a single investigation was carried out to prove RCTV's involvement in the failed attempt to overthrow Chavez and neither him nor his allies presented a formal complaint in Judiciary instances. Considering that the Justice is in his power it would be a piece of cake to do so, but there is no evidence. The accusations against the alleged participation of the channel in the 2002 events begun this year, when Chavez decided that he was going to rule the country for 18 months without the help of the Congress (composed in its entirety by Chavez supporters, by the way)
My main beef with the shutting down of RCTV is not the channel per se, it is the fact that Chavez is slowly but firmly advancing and concentrating power and the message this RCTV affair sends it is both powerful and frightening. Now media outlets will think twice or thrice before showing a news story that does not favor the government. He also threatened the other private channels with shutting them down for 72 hours if they dared to show the statements released by the Inter American Press Asociation, Human Rights Watch, Reporters without Borders, NGO's and such protesting the shutting down of the network. Last but not least he has stated that any channel that gives air-time to RCTV will be punished and tried for treason to the country. The channel won't be able to broadcast at all, so yesterday over 3,000 people lost their jobs.
And I just heard Nicolas Maduro (Vzla's chancellor, i.e. Foreign Affairs Minister) saying in CNN en español (in spanish) that this is just the beginning, they will review every single license of TV channels and radio stations. I believe they are in the process of trying to "own" the media as whole. I'm sorry but this is a clear attempt to shut up dissent and hinders freedom of speech.
We'll have to wait and see what happens, so far the first day of the new channel did nothing of what the government promised it would do (cultural and educational programming, with independence from the government agenda), so far it has been Chavez propaganda...
I see your point of view. I do. And it is unfortunate that Chavez, despite overwhelming support of the people(80%!) at the onset of his presidency, he has failed to take advantage of that popularity. Without pointing blame, it does seem that the privately owned television media there is in the pockets of the rich, mainly the oil companies, and from all reports, they have been nothing but unrelenting in their persecution of Chavez on the airwaves. Even sportscasters at baseball games. Chavez hasn't handled this very well. So, it has come to this. He has chosen to fight the elitist battle, and this means he is losing touch with the platform that got him elected in the first place.
I see your point of view. I do. And it is unfortunate that Chavez, despite overwhelming support of the people(80%!) at the onset of his presidency, he has failed to take advantage of that popularity. Without pointing blame, it does seem that the privately owned television media there is in the pockets of the rich, mainly the oil companies, and from all reports, they have been nothing but unrelenting in their persecution of Chavez on the airwaves. Even sportscasters at baseball games. Chavez hasn't handled this very well. So, it has come to this. He has chosen to fight the elitist battle, and this means he is losing touch with the platform that got him elected in the first place.
Yes he used to have that kind of spontaneous support, nowadays I'm not sure how much of his support is genuine and how much of it spurrs from fear of facing the consequences of adversing him. For instance, there's plenty of people that got fired from their governmental job after it was found they signed the Referendum petition, one of my parents' closest friend was denied of his retirement pension for signing the aforemention petition...The approx- 4 million persons who signed the petition are in black list.
Just to clarify, TV channels are not in the hands of oil companies. There's no link whatsoever. The owners of private networks are rich (like almost everywhere, putting down and running a media outlet involves a huge investment), but they are the so-called Venezuela's traditional families. See, oil in Venezuela since 1975 (if my elementary school memories don't fail me), when Carlos Andrés Pérez nationalized it, has been in the hands of the State. Prior to that it was exploited by international oil companies.
Yes he used to have that kind of spontaneous support, nowadays I'm not sure how much of his support is genuine and how much of it spurrs from fear of facing the consequences of adversing him. For instance, there's plenty of people that got fired from their governmental job after it was found they signed the Referendum petition, one of my parents' closest friend was denied of his retirement pension for signing the aforemention petition...The approx- 4 million persons who signed the petition are in black list.
Just to clarify, TV channels are not in the hands of oil companies. There's no link whatsoever. The owners of private networks are rich (like almost everywhere, putting down and running a media outlet involves a huge investment), but they are the so-called Venezuela's traditional families. See, oil in Venezuela since 1975 (if my elementary school memories don't fail me), when Carlos Andrés Pérez nationalized it, has been in the hands of the State. Prior to that it was exploited by international oil companies.
Suffice to say, things aren't all that great in Venezuela.
Unfortunately, as long as hostility is the prevailing factor, it seems, even if Chavez is removed, this country has some things to work out.
Suffice to say, things aren't all that great in Venezuela.
Unfortunately, as long as hostility is the prevailing factor, it seems, even if Chavez is removed, this country has some things to work out.
See, here we fully agree... Venezuela's situation is a huge mess and I believe the worst is yet to come. Keep in mind that most of Venezuelan's are armed and I fear violence will seriously take place if Chavez' law of expropriating houses over a 120mt2 (something like that) and forcing people to share their houses with other families is actually implemented...I really hope to be wrong, but I'm worried.
Well, it's been a pleasure, now I'm off to catch the Spurs-Jazz 2nd half (Go Manu and the Spurs!!!)
See, here we fully agree... Venezuela's situation is a huge mess and I believe the worst is yet to come. Keep in mind that most of Venezuelan's are armed and I fear violence will seriously take place if Chavez' law of expropriating houses over a 120mt2 (something like that) and forcing people to share their houses with other families is actually implemented...I really hope to be wrong, but I'm worried.
Well, it's been a pleasure, now I'm off to catch the Spurs-Jazz 2nd half (Go Manu and the Spurs!!!)
Suffice to say, things aren't all that great in Venezuela.
Unfortunately, as long as hostility is the prevailing factor, it seems, even if Chavez is removed, this country has some things to work out.
Well, everyone still digging Venezuela's socialism? A tv station that disagrees with the government gets shut down. Freedom of speech doesn't matter I guess. Viva la Socialism! This Chavez guy is great!
After reading a few pages yesterday and then listening to the world report last evening on the radio, I see that a licence expired and it just didn't get renewed. Of course there was no real explanation for this which isn't fair but the government is allowed to do as they will in most, I would say all countries. "Protest is futile and nothing seems to get through".
yea socialism! yea dictators! boo freedom of speech! boo choice!
yay black & white world, yay "you're either with us or with the enemy", yay 2 conflicting ways of thoughts are the only ones we need.
Though I do regret Chavez's decision, even if this tv will still emit it will not be seen by as much people and that is not as good. What I would like now is for my country to take a moral stance towards venezuela. But, of course, "why bother"?
yay black & white world, yay "you're either with us or with the enemy", yay 2 conflicting ways of thoughts are the only ones we need.
wow..make many assumptions do you?
Chavez is a dictator wannabe. Someone..a media outlet, disagrees with him, poof..gone. He's nationalizing everything..why? Oh it's for the good of the people...right. OR..it's because he's taking control out of the peoples' hands.
But hey..I live in a black and white world where I believe power shouldn't be taken by one man. I guess that makes me a dumbass American. A democratic representative republic vs a dictator. Gosh..how simple of me.
Chavez is a dictator wannabe. Someone..a media outlet, disagrees with him, poof..gone. He's nationalizing everything..why? Oh it's for the good of the people...right. OR..it's because he's taking control out of the peoples' hands.
But hey..I live in a black and white world where I believe power shouldn't be taken by one man. I guess that makes me a dumbass American. A democratic representative republic vs a dictator. Gosh..how simple of me.
you would like to live in a black and white world where your system is good and other systems are bad, that makes you a dumbass. There are american dumbasses, european dumbasses, asian dumbasses, oceanian dumbasses and african dumbasses. But then again I do make assumptions.
you would like to live in a black and white world where your system is good and other systems are bad, that makes you a dumbass. There are american dumbasses, european dumbasses, asian dumbasses, oceanian dumbasses and african dumbasses. But then again I do make assumptions.
how in the fuck do you know what world I would like to live in? You think I want a black and white world b/c I criticize someone who stomps out free speech and/or political dissent?
Pretty sure the only dumbass in this thread is you, if you found my criticism of Hugo Chavez to mean I want a black and white world. Or is it that you wanted to insult an American and just couldn't help yourself? B/c, I don't see where I said anything about France or any European nation.
Comments
Wow, that was a great read, I think it sums up very eloquently what happened. Yes, those days were very complex and as Mr. Toro states what happened was never properly investigated. Actually, in 2004 Danilo Anderson (pro-Chavez prosecutor) was found dead in very obscure circumstances.
I thought it was a great read myself. Toro also has a blogsite, and he doesn't hide his anti-chavista sentiments there. I don't hold this against him, at least not in regard to the article in question. I thought it seemed very fair, and well-written.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I realized he was anti-Chavez while reading his article, however he comes as a rational person and tried to portray the events in a balanced manner. He stated was I was trying to convey, in a hurry 'cause I was at work. I strongly disagree with the fact that TV channels did not condemn the Coup d'Etat, it was anti-democratic, the only way to overthrow Chavez should be through popular vote. However, none of the networks actually participated in the attempt. Actually, such claims begun when Chavez, out of the blue, in his radio-show (Alo Presidente) said something like this "Hmm, RCTV license is about to expire, well they better find another job 'cause I won't renew it".
Not a single investigation was carried out to prove RCTV's involvement in the failed attempt to overthrow Chavez and neither him nor his allies presented a formal complaint in Judiciary instances. Considering that the Justice is in his power it would be a piece of cake to do so, but there is no evidence. The accusations against the alleged participation of the channel in the 2002 events begun this year, when Chavez decided that he was going to rule the country for 18 months without the help of the Congress (composed in its entirety by Chavez supporters, by the way)
My main beef with the shutting down of RCTV is not the channel per se, it is the fact that Chavez is slowly but firmly advancing and concentrating power and the message this RCTV affair sends it is both powerful and frightening. Now media outlets will think twice or thrice before showing a news story that does not favor the government. He also threatened the other private channels with shutting them down for 72 hours if they dared to show the statements released by the Inter American Press Asociation, Human Rights Watch, Reporters without Borders, NGO's and such protesting the shutting down of the network. Last but not least he has stated that any channel that gives air-time to RCTV will be punished and tried for treason to the country. The channel won't be able to broadcast at all, so yesterday over 3,000 people lost their jobs.
And I just heard Nicolas Maduro (Vzla's chancellor, i.e. Foreign Affairs Minister) saying in CNN en español (in spanish) that this is just the beginning, they will review every single license of TV channels and radio stations. I believe they are in the process of trying to "own" the media as whole. I'm sorry but this is a clear attempt to shut up dissent and hinders freedom of speech.
We'll have to wait and see what happens, so far the first day of the new channel did nothing of what the government promised it would do (cultural and educational programming, with independence from the government agenda), so far it has been Chavez propaganda...
I see your point of view. I do. And it is unfortunate that Chavez, despite overwhelming support of the people(80%!) at the onset of his presidency, he has failed to take advantage of that popularity. Without pointing blame, it does seem that the privately owned television media there is in the pockets of the rich, mainly the oil companies, and from all reports, they have been nothing but unrelenting in their persecution of Chavez on the airwaves. Even sportscasters at baseball games. Chavez hasn't handled this very well. So, it has come to this. He has chosen to fight the elitist battle, and this means he is losing touch with the platform that got him elected in the first place.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Yes he used to have that kind of spontaneous support, nowadays I'm not sure how much of his support is genuine and how much of it spurrs from fear of facing the consequences of adversing him. For instance, there's plenty of people that got fired from their governmental job after it was found they signed the Referendum petition, one of my parents' closest friend was denied of his retirement pension for signing the aforemention petition...The approx- 4 million persons who signed the petition are in black list.
Just to clarify, TV channels are not in the hands of oil companies. There's no link whatsoever. The owners of private networks are rich (like almost everywhere, putting down and running a media outlet involves a huge investment), but they are the so-called Venezuela's traditional families. See, oil in Venezuela since 1975 (if my elementary school memories don't fail me), when Carlos Andrés Pérez nationalized it, has been in the hands of the State. Prior to that it was exploited by international oil companies.
Suffice to say, things aren't all that great in Venezuela.
Unfortunately, as long as hostility is the prevailing factor, it seems, even if Chavez is removed, this country has some things to work out.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
See, here we fully agree... Venezuela's situation is a huge mess and I believe the worst is yet to come. Keep in mind that most of Venezuelan's are armed and I fear violence will seriously take place if Chavez' law of expropriating houses over a 120mt2 (something like that) and forcing people to share their houses with other families is actually implemented...I really hope to be wrong, but I'm worried.
Well, it's been a pleasure, now I'm off to catch the Spurs-Jazz 2nd half
Peace
Caterina
Hope...
hope is the (whatever ed said).
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
LMAO! Sounds familiar:D
Bold statement.
Izarra is one who testifies to the fact that he was under orders (from his private tv station boss) not to report on what was happening that day.
I think.
All my facts were accumulated today.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
In fact, he walked away from his job. If I remember right.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Wow!
Thanks for the reading posted throughout this thread.
I now know a little more than I used to.
Peace.
After reading a few pages yesterday and then listening to the world report last evening on the radio, I see that a licence expired and it just didn't get renewed. Of course there was no real explanation for this which isn't fair but the government is allowed to do as they will in most, I would say all countries. "Protest is futile and nothing seems to get through".
yay black & white world, yay "you're either with us or with the enemy", yay 2 conflicting ways of thoughts are the only ones we need.
Though I do regret Chavez's decision, even if this tv will still emit it will not be seen by as much people and that is not as good. What I would like now is for my country to take a moral stance towards venezuela. But, of course, "why bother"?
wow..make many assumptions do you?
Chavez is a dictator wannabe. Someone..a media outlet, disagrees with him, poof..gone. He's nationalizing everything..why? Oh it's for the good of the people...right. OR..it's because he's taking control out of the peoples' hands.
But hey..I live in a black and white world where I believe power shouldn't be taken by one man. I guess that makes me a dumbass American. A democratic representative republic vs a dictator. Gosh..how simple of me.
you would like to live in a black and white world where your system is good and other systems are bad, that makes you a dumbass. There are american dumbasses, european dumbasses, asian dumbasses, oceanian dumbasses and african dumbasses. But then again I do make assumptions.
how in the fuck do you know what world I would like to live in? You think I want a black and white world b/c I criticize someone who stomps out free speech and/or political dissent?
Pretty sure the only dumbass in this thread is you, if you found my criticism of Hugo Chavez to mean I want a black and white world. Or is it that you wanted to insult an American and just couldn't help yourself? B/c, I don't see where I said anything about France or any European nation.