Example of Muslim Leadership Part II

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  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    yosi wrote:
    I know, but you refered to the New Testament as better because it was new. That is offensive to a Jewish view. You could have said it in a better way. But its not really important because I think we are in agreement.

    Well I just figured christians would use more of the stuff from the new testament. I figured the new would outrule the old one is all. I don't think one religion is better than the other.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • yosi1
    yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I think that perhaps Middle Eastern people are more devout with their religion so people associate their actions with their religion. Their actions are based on our foreign policy.

    I don't think their actions are strictly based on our foreign policy. I think that saying that their actions are based on our foreign policy is kind of a cop out giving them responsiblity for their actions. Just because they may not like some of our foriegn policy is no excuse for breeding hate for our country. And it can also be said that our foreign policy is based on their actions.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Jammin909 wrote:
    The problem is the countries where these radical muslims hide and live either support or condone their actions. This then requires military action to stop them from carrying out further attacks which leads to innocent lives being lost.

    How to stop this endless circle of violence?? Not until they stop blowing up trains, towers, and subways.

    Our violence causes innocents to die, too.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • yosi1
    yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Well I just figured christians would use more of the stuff from the new testament. I figured the new would outrule the old one is all. I don't think one religion is better than the other.

    Fair enough. I think I just got riled up about something because my initial reaction was a personal one, but not necessarily exactly related to the point you were making.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • yosi1
    yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Our violence causes innocents to die, too.

    True. But I tend to believe that our actions have the intent of trying to stop violence altogether and resolve the situation. And that violence coming from the other side (at least against us) is only intended to cause suffering.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • MrBrian
    MrBrian Posts: 2,672
    yosi wrote:
    I don't think their actions are strictly based on our foreign policy. I think that saying that their actions are based on our foreign policy is kind of a cop out giving them responsiblity for their actions. Just because they may not like some of our foriegn policy is no excuse for breeding hate for our country. And it can also be said that our foreign policy is based on their actions.

    But what is this foreign policy? It's not a policy of human rights or justice, it's a one sided corrupt policy, they have every right to dislike it, it's a policy of taking down their elected leaders and putting up ones that will support us, a policy of rape and destruction of land.
    Our policy of support for apartheid israel and other corrupt states/countries/leaders

    You can say that our foreign policy is based on their actions, but you'd be wrong.
  • yosi1
    yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    MrBrian wrote:
    But what is this foreign policy? It's not a policy of human rights or justice, it's a one sided corrupt policy, they have every right to dislike it, it's a policy of taking down their elected leaders and putting up ones that will support us, a policy of rape and destruction of land.

    You can say that our foreign policy is based on their actions, but you'd be wrong.

    Saddam Hussein was an elected leader?
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Violence will not solve violence. You're only kidding yourself if you think it will. What has the violence thus far produced?

    I actually believe in that idealistic notion, really I do.

    Unfortunately, in practice it doesn't work.

    In the real world bullies (like Muslims) when not met with force, will run rough-shot over anyone and everyone. Regardless off whether they meet violence with violence, or whether they choose to not react with violence. The result has always been the same. Death, torture, slavery and servitude.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    yosi wrote:
    What do you mean by defense? Military action can be defensive.

    Well I wouldn't expect us to stand there if bombers were in our country. They would need to be stopped. If a country waged war against us would would have to stop them from invading.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    NMyTree wrote:
    I actually believe in that idealistic notion, really I do.

    Unfortunately, in practice it doesn't work.

    In the real world bullies (like Muslims) when not met with force, will run rough-shot over anyone and everyone. Regardless off whether they meet violence with violence, or whether they choose to not react with violence. The result has always been the same. Death, torture, slavery and servitude.

    Christian nations have caused more death and torture than any muslim nations combined.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • yosi1
    yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Well I wouldn't expect us to stand there if bombers were in our country. They would need to be stopped. If a country waged war against us would would have to stop them from invading.

    Ok. I think though sometimes, and the Iraq War may not be the case (I don't support it), but I think that if there is a terrible dictator who is killing lots of people, or treating people in a wrong way, that they need to be stopped. In reality, I could have supported a different Iraq War, under different pretenses and with a different course of action. I also think that it would not be wrong for the US (and the world) to use military action in Darfur. Sometimes it is necessary.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • MrBrian
    MrBrian Posts: 2,672
    yosi wrote:
    Saddam Hussein was an elected leader?

    Saddam hussein was backed by the US, america should be the one saying sorry to the middle east for him.

    next,
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Nope.

    I'm saying christian nations are no better than muslim ones. They are both violent and reactionary. But the fact is christian nations kill way more people than islamic ones. I figured you'd be equally pissed at both.

    Oh, I am. At least I severly criticize those Christians who are violent and slam them, too.

    But since you and the rest of the apologists here spend some much time and effort always defending, protecting and hand-jobbing Muslims and Islam- no matter what they do; I feel the need to point out the not so pleasant facts of Muslims and Islam.

    It doesn't matter what Muslims do, you guys/gals find away to absolve them of any responsibility and blame someone else. They're always the poor, helpless victims. And that is a huge crock of shit.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    yosi wrote:
    I don't think their actions are strictly based on our foreign policy. I think that saying that their actions are based on our foreign policy is kind of a cop out giving them responsiblity for their actions. Just because they may not like some of our foriegn policy is no excuse for breeding hate for our country. And it can also be said that our foreign policy is based on their actions.


    They are responsible for their violence but every action has a cause. I don't think our foreign policy means their violence is justified. It is a bad cycle on both sides. If they didn't act out violently in response to us then the US would have no excuse to go after them and vice versa.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    NMyTree wrote:
    Oh, I am. At least I severly criticize those Christians who are violent and slam them, too.

    But since you and the rest of the apologists here spend some much time and effort always defending, protecting and hand-jobbing Muslims and Islam- no matter what they do; I feel the need to point out the not so pleasant facts of Muslims and Islam.

    It doesn't matter what Muslims do, you guys/gals find away to absolve them of any responsibility and blame someone else. They're always the poor, helpless victims. And that is a huge crock of shit.

    It's not because they are Muslim.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Christian nations have caused more death and torture than any muslim nations combined.


    Really? I'd like to see those numbers (statistics). Who ran those figures, the Grand Mufti Sheik Mohammed Rashid Kabbani?
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    It's not because they are Muslim.



    Much of their violent, bully, manipulative behavior is because of their religion. They proudly admit that.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    yosi wrote:
    Ok. I think though sometimes, and the Iraq War may not be the case (I don't support it), but I think that if there is a terrible dictator who is killing lots of people, or treating people in a wrong way, that they need to be stopped. In reality, I could have supported a different Iraq War, under different pretenses and with a different course of action. I also think that it would not be wrong for the US (and the world) to use military action in Darfur. Sometimes it is necessary.


    There are so many countries that are controled by ruthless dictators, amny that the US aids and supports. I think there are better ways of taking out these leaders other than invasion. It might help these poor people if our govt wasn't giving these bad guys the power and resources to keep control over them.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    They are responsible for their violence but every action has a cause. I don't think our foreign policy means their violence is justified. It is a bad cycle on both sides. If they didn't act out violently in response to us then the US would have no excuse to go after them and vice versa.


    Every action by the USA has a cause.

    So are saying you have taken it upon yourself to determine and rationalize who's cause is more noble and legitimate? Because it sure seems that way to me.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    NMyTree wrote:
    Much of their violent, bully, manipulative behavior is because of their religion. They proudly admit that.


    They say they are being violent because it is the way of Islam?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde

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