Example of Muslim Leadership Part II

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  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    bootlegger10 wrote:
    Your argument is weak. If you think that Jesus would not have supported going to war against the Nazis, then there is no point for us to debate.

    I'm off to Best Buy, to get a dvd from an evil corporation. Boo!


    But do you think Islamic countries see our actions as threats?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    bootlegger10 wrote:
    Your argument is weak. If you think that Jesus would not have supported going to war against the Nazis, then there is no point for us to debate.

    I'm off to Best Buy, to get a dvd from an evil corporation. Boo!

    And my argument is weak when I'm quoting Jesus and you are the one assuming what he would have done. Hmmmm
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • VivaPalestina
    VivaPalestina Posts: 225
    bootlegger10 wrote:
    Find me a good percentage of the Muslim community that will publicly come out against the terrorist attacks, and the attacks in response of the Pope's quote.

    The Islamic Society of America:

    http://isna.net/index.php?id=35&backPID=1&tt_news=775

    Council on American Islamic Relations:

    http://www.cair.com/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=2268&theType=NR

    However, everytime there is an attack on a Mosque by a Christain, we don't expect Christian leaders to come out and condemn said attack, if they do that is awesome, if they don't we don't blame all of Christainity and Christains for it.
  • Jammin909
    Jammin909 Posts: 888
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    They say these things to win votes and you know it. How many voted for the war though? They're only against it now because it has proved to be a waste and troops are dying with no progress being made. How many supported it before it was obvious to them how pointless it would be? Before it was a failure the overwhelming majority were for the war.

    Monday morning quarterback. Congress voted/a majority of the people supported it based on the facts that were presented by the White House/intelligence community at the time. If Iraq turned out to have nukes and the war was properly planned and executed it would not have been pointless.
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I don't know what goes on inside the Muslim community or streets? I do think more of them are living in fear and want some kind of a solution to end the suffering in their area. But fear always makes for bad decisions. We have done nothing but instill that fear into their society with our own aggression.

    The citizens of poor muslim countries should despise their murderous, corrupt and deceitful leaders more than the US and its citizens. Saddam kept order by killing his own citizens. That is instilling fear.

    Bush pales in comparison...
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Jammin909 wrote:
    Monday morning quarterback. Congress voted/a majority of the people supported it based on the facts that were presented by the White House/intelligence community at the time. If Iraq turned out to have nukes and the war was properly planned and executed it would not have been pointless....

    We have nukes.


    Jammin909 wrote:
    The citizens of poor muslim countries should despise their murderous, corrupt and deceitful leaders more than the US and its citizens. Saddam kept order by killing his own citizens. That is instilling fear.

    Bush pales in comparison when 'instilling fear'...

    Murderous, corrupt, deceitful = The US government

    I'm sure they do despise all that shit but they also know we ain't about making anything better for them. They know we bring more of the same.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • yosi1
    yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:

    Murderous, corrupt, deceitful = The US government

    I'm sure they do despise all that shit but they also know we ain't about making anything better for them. They know we bring more of the same.

    You're right that our government is far from perfect, and far from being truthful, especially the current leadership. However, I don't think its plausible to compare it with some of the governments you are talking about.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Jammin909 wrote:

    Bush pales in comparison...

    Does he? Depleted uranium, countless amounts of civilian casualties, cities left in bombed out ruin....????
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    yosi wrote:
    You're right that our government is far from perfect, and far from being truthful, especially the current leadership. However, I don't think its plausible to compare it with some of the governments you are talking about.

    They maybe more crude and open about it but the actions of these governments are my point.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • yosi1
    yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    They maybe more crude and open about it but the actions of these governments are my point.

    I am refering too to the actions of these governments.

    The problem that I have is when you say something like "Murderous, corrupt, deceitful = The US government", you portray only the US government as being "bad". You should at least be equally rebuking the leadership of such governments like Iraq and Iran. It is not fair to only make statements like that about the United States which I still believe to be doing a better job (although not great) than these and other Arab governments.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • Jammin909
    Jammin909 Posts: 888
    bootlegger10 wrote:
    I wonder if a statement like this made about Christians would be enough to close a thread.

    Honestly. The political correctness required when addressing the Muslim world is insane.

    Look at the CIA factbook for literacy rates, average income, and average lifespan in Muslim countries and you will see Musharraf's comments had some truth behind them. Stating the facts is anything but racist.

    http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    It's always someone else's fault.

    They are always justified in their manipulation, bullying and violence.

    No blame, accountibility or responsibility should ever fall on a Muslim's shoulders. The Prophet says so.

    :rolleyes::rolleyes:


    ....and the apologists dance.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    NMyTree wrote:
    It's always someone else's fault.

    They are always justified in their manipulation, bullying and violence.

    No blame, accountibility or responsibility should ever fall on a Muslim's shoulders. The Prophet says so.

    :rolleyes::rolleyes:


    ....and the apologists dance.

    Nope.

    I'm saying christian nations are no better than muslim ones. They are both violent and reactionary. But the fact is christian nations kill way more people than islamic ones. I figured you'd be equally pissed at both.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,263
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    And my argument is weak when I'm quoting Jesus and you are the one assuming what he would have done. Hmmmm

    The Bible is a large book that includes the Old Testament. In the Old Testament God struck down many nations and enabled the Jews to win many battles. It is noble to give up your life for anothers. That is what the brave men of the Allied forces did in WWII. How do you know that Jesus meant to turn the other cheek when a nation decides to kill millions of people in furnaces and gas chambers?
  • Jammin909
    Jammin909 Posts: 888
    yosi wrote:
    The problem that I have is when you say something like "Murderous, corrupt, deceitful = The US government", you portray only the US government as being "bad". You should at least be equally rebuking the leadership of such governments like Iraq and Iran. It is not fair to only make statements like that about the United States which I still believe to be doing a better job (although
    not great) than these and other Arab governments.

    Well said...

    Yes, we have nukes but we have behaved well in past decades and have a stable and established system. Half these countries have new governments, constitutions, and parliaments every other week. It is not acceptable for these countries to have nukes when they will only use the technology to blackmail the west.

    Ahmadinejad does not want nuclear technology so he can supply his poor citizens with cheap and reliable energy...
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    yosi wrote:
    I am refering too to the actions of these governments.

    The problem that I have is when you say something like "Murderous, corrupt, deceitful = The US government", you portray only the US government as being "bad". You should at least be equally rebuking the leadership of such governments like Iraq and Iran. It is not fair to only make statements like that about the United States which I still believe to be doing a better job (although not great) than these and other Arab governments.

    Yeah, I am against violence and killing no matter what country or religion it has. Our government uses more violence and has killed more but I figure that's only because we have more resources to do so. The only way to stop this shit is for everyone to urge diplomacy and condemn violence. You can't just say 'Well, they are doing it.' It only prolongs this cycle of endless violence. It has to stop.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,263
    If the Islamic extremists backed off, there would be peace.

    If the US backed off, there would be slaughter.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Jammin909 wrote:
    Well said...

    Yes, we have nukes but we have behaved well in past decades and have a stable and established system. Half these countries have new governments, constitutions, and parliaments every other week. It is not acceptable for these countries to have nukes when they will only use the technology to blackmail the west.

    Ahmadinejad does not want nuclear technology so he can supply his poor citizens with cheap and reliable energy...

    If you are against violence than you are against it no matter who. You can't condemn Muslim violence and then ok our own.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    bootlegger10 wrote:
    If the Islamic extremists backed off, there would be peace.

    If the US backed off, there would be slaughter.

    There is slaughter now.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    NMyTree wrote:
    It's always someone else's fault.

    They are always justified in their manipulation, bullying and violence.

    No blame, accountibility or responsibility should ever fall on a Muslim's shoulders.


    Blame, accountibility or responsibility shouldn't fall on the shoulders of Islam, imo but on the shoulders of the radical muslims.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    bootlegger10 wrote:
    The Bible is a large book that includes the Old Testament. In the Old Testament God struck down many nations and enabled the Jews to win many battles. It is noble to give up your life for anothers. That is what the brave men of the Allied forces did in WWII. How do you know that Jesus meant to turn the other cheek when a nation decides to kill millions of people in furnaces and gas chambers?

    Because he didn't say but or if. Usually new is better than old. Old means outdated.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde

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