Example of Muslim Leadership Part II
Jammin909
Posts: 888
Today we are the poorest, the most illiterate, the most backward, the most unhealthy, the most un-enlightened, the most deprived, and the weakest of all the human race.
They are the words of President Musharraf of Pakistan- not mine
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1824455.stm
They are the words of President Musharraf of Pakistan- not mine
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1824455.stm
The less you know, the more you believe.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
First, those against the war and this administration need to get your arguments together. When it suits you the reason for the war was oil. When it suits you the reason for the war is religion. When it suits you the reason for the war is economic gain. When it suits you the reason for the war is occupation and global conquest.
Second, you claim Bush is an evangelical and the reason for the war is the Islamic religion. Then, you state that Bush is a phony and only uses the religious right for votes. Make up your minds.
Now all that said, you still may claim the American people supported the war because of religion. To this I say they supported a war because of the threat that the opposition represented. They had just witnessed one of hte worst terrorist attacks in American history. If it was non-Islamic terrorist that was behind the attacks, Americans would have supported war against them and any country that suppported them, as was the case in Afghanistan. The American people supported the war in Iraq because we thought Iraq was putting together weapons of mass destruction. Saddam's regime wasn't even Islamic. The point is that the war was supported based up on the threats presented to the public. The public would not have supported the war if they knew at the time that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction (at least I wouldn't have).
I know many evangelicals, and not one of them hates innocent Islamic people. I have financially supported missionaries who go to Muslim countries. They honestly care about the people they meet there, regardless of their faith. We donate lots of money a year to bring Bibles to the region. We wouldn't do that if we didn't care about those people. We only supported war because of the threat that was represented to us, not because the threat came from Muslim people. America has gone to war plenty of times before with it not being about religion.
This would be true if many high-level Islamic leaders came out and rebuked the actions that have been taken place (embassy attacks, nuns being killed, churches being burned, etc.), but you don't hear anything like that. Instead they blame the words and images of the West. Why wouldn't we think Islam is a violent religion?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I wonder if a statement like this made about Christians would be enough to close a thread.
How many high-level leaders here have condemned the Bush admin and their actions?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Christians respond to violent threats. You don't have to be Christian to want to fight after a terrorist attack. Nor is war against Christian values. WWII is a good example of a needed war. Look at the Old Testament to see examples of wars that God himself helped the Jews win. War is not anti-Christian. Being attacked and not fighting back is suicide, not honorable. Muslims just don't have the firepower to mount the wars and responses that Americans can. Which is why they are attempting to get nuclear and biological weapons. If America did not have its firepower, and neither did Israel, Israel would be wiped off the map only for the fact that is Israel.
Christians would not support a war against a nation that did not provide a real threat to itself or another country.
There are plenty of of high level leaders in the church and in the political community who have come out against the president. Look at his approval rating. Turn on the news. Everything is anti-Bush, anti-war. If I wasn't American and turned on the news and read the message boards and followed the polls, I would say that the country is very much anti-Bush and his actions.
I doubt I could say the same thing by watching Muslim television, or by reading Muslim newspapers.
Are you talking nowadays or how it has always been?
ccfa.org
http://organicconsumers.com/
Yeah, just ignore all of Jesus' teachings... follow the ones that suit you.
Islamic nations are responding to what they see as terror just the same...only you guys call it war.
They did.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Nowadays. I made this statement in the other thread, but it got closed because someone quoted what a Muslim said about the Muslim people.
Could you give me some high-level examples? I'm not saying they don't exist but I'd just like to see who these people are.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
They supported a war against Iraq because they believed it was a threat (turns out it wasn't). But that doesn't change the meaning for going to war.
Jesus would have supported entering WWII to stop the Nazi's. Otherwise they would have wiped out his chosen people.
I'm not picking and choosing.
And you don't think Islamic countries see our actions as a threat?
Turn the other cheek. Love your enemy. I don't think Jesus supports violence but maybe there is a clause somewhere.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Just about every Democratic politician, most high-profile celebrities, 68% of the country according to various polls. Turn on the news and you'll see people denouncing what Bush has done. I can walk down the streets and see protesters against Bush and the war (even in Indiana).
Find me a good percentage of the Muslim community that will publicly come out against the terrorist attacks, and the attacks in response of the Pope's quote.
Your argument is weak. If you think that Jesus would not have supported going to war against the Nazis, then there is no point for us to debate.
I'm off to Best Buy, to get a dvd from an evil corporation. Boo!
They say these things to win votes and you know it. How many voted for the war though? They're only against it now because it has proved to be a waste and troops are dying with no progress being made. How many supported it before it was obvious to them how pointless it would be? Before it was a failure the overwhelming majority were for the war.
I don't know what goes on inside the Muslim community or streets? I do think more of them are living in fear and want some kind of a solution to end the suffering in their area. But fear always makes for bad decisions. We have done nothing but instill that fear into their society with our own aggression.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
But do you think Islamic countries see our actions as threats?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And my argument is weak when I'm quoting Jesus and you are the one assuming what he would have done. Hmmmm
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The Islamic Society of America:
http://isna.net/index.php?id=35&backPID=1&tt_news=775
Council on American Islamic Relations:
http://www.cair.com/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=2268&theType=NR
However, everytime there is an attack on a Mosque by a Christain, we don't expect Christian leaders to come out and condemn said attack, if they do that is awesome, if they don't we don't blame all of Christainity and Christains for it.
Monday morning quarterback. Congress voted/a majority of the people supported it based on the facts that were presented by the White House/intelligence community at the time. If Iraq turned out to have nukes and the war was properly planned and executed it would not have been pointless.
The citizens of poor muslim countries should despise their murderous, corrupt and deceitful leaders more than the US and its citizens. Saddam kept order by killing his own citizens. That is instilling fear.
Bush pales in comparison...
We have nukes.
Murderous, corrupt, deceitful = The US government
I'm sure they do despise all that shit but they also know we ain't about making anything better for them. They know we bring more of the same.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
You're right that our government is far from perfect, and far from being truthful, especially the current leadership. However, I don't think its plausible to compare it with some of the governments you are talking about.
Does he? Depleted uranium, countless amounts of civilian casualties, cities left in bombed out ruin....????
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
They maybe more crude and open about it but the actions of these governments are my point.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I am refering too to the actions of these governments.
The problem that I have is when you say something like "Murderous, corrupt, deceitful = The US government", you portray only the US government as being "bad". You should at least be equally rebuking the leadership of such governments like Iraq and Iran. It is not fair to only make statements like that about the United States which I still believe to be doing a better job (although not great) than these and other Arab governments.
Honestly. The political correctness required when addressing the Muslim world is insane.
Look at the CIA factbook for literacy rates, average income, and average lifespan in Muslim countries and you will see Musharraf's comments had some truth behind them. Stating the facts is anything but racist.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html