"Loose Change" Director Chuckles Over Flight 93

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  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    I agree....do you realize how much symapthy the world showed for your country after 9/11...everyone was there for you...however your government choose to take a different path of unprovoked war and all the compassion was taken away and unfortunatly replaced with negative feelings which is too bad.....and yes the policies have only created more hatred and will undoubtly may lead to further attacks...those that say the "war on terror" is working are irrational....simple fact it is breeding more hate day in and day out....the war on terror is as successful as the war on drugs...the only thing they both accomplished is an increase in the problem they were supposdly to stop....both utter failures.....

    Indeed. The war on terror is designed to go on and on, much like the war on drugs. It's an endless game of whack-a-mole that you can't really win, but it's very useful for controlling the population.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    Saturnal wrote:
    Indeed. The war on terror is designed to go on and on, much like the war on drugs. It's an endless game of whack-a-mole that you can't really win, but it's very useful for controlling the population.

    As we can see.....you people need a leader who has the balls to say I'm pulling the troops yet everyone is so scared to say so.....this type of leader would gain world respect.....just today...just today a high up military person in the American military stated that currently the situation is worse than ever....give it up all ready...no more kids need to die for a false war....its Nam all over again...the longer it gets dragged out...further America will be dragged through mud in the worlds eyes and I do not want to see that anymore.....
  • Eliot Rosewater
    Eliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    Saturnal wrote:
    I agree, they've consistently lied about many things. I think the key thing they're denying is WHY we were attacked. The government generally gives the "they hate us because of our freedoms" line, which is completely rediculous.
    Well, to some, myself included the key thing is WHO attacked us...not WHY. I've always found it to be quite insulting to Arabs that we say they hate us because of our freedom. It's so fucking stupid to believe that. If they hate us, it's because we arm and support Israel and all of our other fucked up foreign policy, as someone mentioned earlier.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    don't gimme no wrote:
    Well, to some, myself included the key thing is WHO attacked us...not WHY. I've always found it to be quite insulting to Arabs that we say they hate us because of our freedom. It's so fucking stupid to believe that. If they hate us, it's because we arm and support Israel and all of our other fucked up foreign policy, as someone mentioned earlier.

    That's true, first and foremost is WHO...then comes the WHY.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Saturnal wrote:
    That's true, first and foremost is WHO...then comes the WHY.

    Well you don't have a case if you don't have a suspect and a motive. Assuming Al-Qaida is the suspect, what is their motive? I find it hard to believe that it's simply to cause fear in freedom. Makes no sense to me, this is like the kind of thing you would expect to happen in china or another communist state. The fear is just a tool of the government, it serves Al-Qaida no good. In fact, having grown up next to the US and knowing how stubborn and controlling the US is, all out war was the only possible outcome. How could Al-Qaida bennefit from war? You see that makes no sense. Even if Al-Qaida is suspect, they don't have a motive that makes sense, to me anyway.

    On the other hand the US administration has bennefited a great deal from 9/11. They have been able to carry out all of the domestic and international reform planned in the PNAC documents. They have gained more power as heads of state and squashed many of their enemies without cause. Not to mention the gross revenue to the weapons manufacturers and the increased debt to the Federal Reserve.

    Who else could have bennefited from it? If you can figure out the WHY first, then you narrow down the suspects.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • kenny olav
    kenny olav Posts: 3,319
    Opie and Anthony are (occasionally funny) assholes, however...

    "9/11 was an inside job, but Loose Change is a hoax"
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Well you don't have a case if you don't have a suspect and a motive. Assuming Al-Qaida is the suspect, what is their motive? I find it hard to believe that it's simply to cause fear in freedom. Makes no sense to me, this is like the kind of thing you would expect to happen in china or another communist state. The fear is just a tool of the government, it serves Al-Qaida no good. In fact, having grown up next to the US and knowing how stubborn and controlling the US is, all out war was the only possible outcome. How could Al-Qaida bennefit from war? You see that makes no sense. Even if Al-Qaida is suspect, they don't have a motive that makes sense, to me anyway.

    On the other hand the US administration has bennefited a great deal from 9/11. They have been able to carry out all of the domestic and international reform planned in the PNAC documents. They have gained more power as heads of state and squashed many of their enemies without cause. Not to mention the gross revenue to the weapons manufacturers and the increased debt to the Federal Reserve.

    Who else could have bennefited from it? If you can figure out the WHY first, then you narrow down the suspects.

    Al Qaeda's motive is US foreign policy in the Middle East. They say it over and over again, all the time. They want us to stop supporting Israel and other brutal regimes in the region. That's why they attacked. They benefit because everyone in America now knows who Al Qaeda is.
  • audome25
    audome25 Posts: 163
    Saturnal wrote:
    Al Qaeda's motive is US foreign policy in the Middle East. They say it over and over again, all the time. They want us to stop supporting Israel and other brutal regimes in the region. That's why they attacked.


    that's cutting it a little short. there is also a bg mentionof our "lack of morals" pertaining to what "horrible" things our people do wthin our own borders, like not going worshipping Allah or beating t not forcing women to wear burkhas. just becasue al-quaeda doesn't want anyone to support israel doesn't make it the right answer. people talk the "fear" in the US and usually use it to descirbe the "bombs away" people, I think its pretty easy to make a case that attempting to rationalize some of these peoples motives and constantly blaming others rather than the ignored son who turned to radical islam as way to get his father's attention is based in some sort of fear.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    audome25 wrote:
    that's cutting it a little short. there is also a bg mentionof our "lack of morals" pertaining to what "horrible" things our people do wthin our own borders, like not going worshipping Allah or beating t not forcing women to wear burkhas. just becasue al-quaeda doesn't want anyone to support israel doesn't make it the right answer. people talk the "fear" in the US and usually use it to descirbe the "bombs away" people, I think its pretty easy to make a case that attempting to rationalize some of these peoples motives and constantly blaming others rather than the ignored son who turned to radical islam as way to get his father's attention is based in some sort of fear.

    I won't deny that some Muslims do not agree with our morals. But they don't agree with much of the world's morals either. We are singled out more often for another reason, and that reason is our foriegn policy. They aren't crashing planes into our buildings because we let women wear revealing clothing.

    I know there's not one single reason, there are many things that play into this. But the main reason is our foreign policy. Al Qaeda says it over and over and over again...we got attacked because of our dealings in the Middle East, and in addition to that, they don't like our way of life.
  • Eliot Rosewater
    Eliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    Saturnal wrote:
    I won't deny that some Muslims do not agree with our morals. But they don't agree with much of the world's morals either. We are singled out more often for another reason, and that reason is our foriegn policy. They aren't crashing planes into our buildings because we let women wear revealing clothing.

    I know there's not one single reason, there are many things that play into this. But the main reason is our foreign policy. Al Qaeda says it over and over and over again...we got attacked because of our dealings in the Middle East, and in addition to that, they don't like our way of life.
    I'll agree with that. There are clearly many other countries that would be higher on their 9/11 list if their motivation was based on lifestyle differences.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    I think lifestyle choices are not a major contributing factor...it solely lies in foreign policy....to say its lifestyle choices is a fear to induce the public their freedom is under attack...to me 9/11 was an attack at the government...they view it as Israel views the accidental killing of innocents...a by-product for a bigger goal.....the WTC was the symbol of Capatilism and the Pentagon the center of America's military might....its a shame this ever occured b/c since that day the world as gone to crap....
  • audome25
    audome25 Posts: 163
    Saturnal wrote:
    we got attacked because of our dealings in the Middle East, and in addition to that, they don't like our way of life.


    not saying foreign policy doesn't play a role, since it is obvious it does, but if Osama had come out and said he was angry that young muslims are choosing western lifestyles, and that western culture was finding its way into controling muslim nations and threatening to undermine religious control (which is exactly what happened/is happening to christianity) he wouldn't get the "support" that he gets from non muslim nations. that support being a sort of apathy towards stopping him.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    audome25 wrote:
    not saying foreign policy doesn't play a role, since it is obvious it does, but if Osama had come out and said he was angry that young muslims are choosing western lifestyles, and that western culture was finding its way into controling muslim nations and threatening to undermine religious control (which is exactly what happened/is happening to christianity) he wouldn't get the "support" that he gets from non muslim nations. that support being a sort of apathy towards stopping him.

    Just because a country isn't willing to invade Iraq or Afghanistan, doesn't mean they support Bin Laden. What you're saying is like telling someone who doesn't vote that they're supporting Bush.
  • audome25
    audome25 Posts: 163
    Saturnal wrote:
    Just because a country isn't willing to invade Iraq or Afghanistan, doesn't mean they support Bin Laden. What you're saying is like telling someone who doesn't vote that they're supporting Bush.


    there's a difference between apathy at stopping him and invading a country. you can do a lto to stop these people without ever picking up a weapon.
  • Eliot Rosewater
    Eliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    audome25 wrote:
    not saying foreign policy doesn't play a role, since it is obvious it does, but if Osama had come out and said he was angry that young muslims are choosing western lifestyles, and that western culture was finding its way into controling muslim nations and threatening to undermine religious control (which is exactly what happened/is happening to christianity) he wouldn't get the "support" that he gets from non muslim nations. that support being a sort of apathy towards stopping him.
    I'm sorry but I think it's really silly that people still believe Osama was the mastermind for this whole thing.....
  • audome25
    audome25 Posts: 163
    don't gimme no wrote:
    I'm sorry but I think it's really silly that people still believe Osama was the mastermind for this whole thing.....


    well if we are discussing al quaeda reasoning, and osama has made statement on behalf of al quaeda....
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    audome25 wrote:
    there's a difference between apathy at stopping him and invading a country. you can do a lto to stop these people without ever picking up a weapon.

    I agree
  • audome25
    audome25 Posts: 163
    don't gimme no wrote:
    I'm sorry but I think it's really silly that people still believe Osama was the mastermind for this whole thing.....


    i think its really silly that a non engineer with no aviation experience can tell me he's not.
  • audome25
    audome25 Posts: 163
    Saturnal wrote:
    I agree


    but they have to want to.
  • Eliot Rosewater
    Eliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    audome25 wrote:
    i think its really silly that a non engineer with no aviation experience can tell me he's not.
    Where have you been? I've heard both engineers and aviation experts claim that this was an inside job.

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