"Loose Change" Director Chuckles Over Flight 93

duncan in the sand

hailhailkc wrote:

We haven't exactly been on friendly terms with Iraq in the last 15 years or so, so when exactly did we give these WMD to Saddam. And don't tell me it was when Rumsfeld was over there shaking his hand, because we all know that's NOT the WMD that we're talking about. So…when did this exchange of WMD happen, and furthermore, how do you KNOW it happened? And most importantly, WHY would Saddam…someone who's hated us for the last 15 years…agree to plant WMD for us?

And furthermore…if it was a plan for the even bigger "war on terror"…wouldn't you be REALLY screwing yourself if you didn't know for sure that the WMD would be there when you said it would?!!?

Who takes a risk like that?!?!

Simple. They really didn't care if they were found or not. They got into Iraq, and once there, it would be too late to challenge the WMD. So they looked bad, billions of dollars makes it all feel better.

duncan in the sand

WindNoSail wrote:

Abu and Duncan - you guys like one liners don't you? You assume all cons are closed minded and w/o intellect, but sometimes you guys sound snotty and spoiled.

So clever.....

You mean one-liners like..... Freedom is on the march, or.....They hate our freedoms, or.....Libs just want to cut and run, or.....the insurgency is in its last throes

duncan in the sand

WindNoSail wrote:

Now I can take the science arguments, and I appreciate you offering that up. I understand, and maybe that is not currently explainable. I am open actually to the conspiracy arguments when made w/o rude and classless sniping from the woods. When this happens all I can think of jr high.

But to retort your question, what exactly do they propose would make it burn that hot if it is impossible by fuel? I mean it seems to me that jet fuel is one of the smartest ideas you could consider for generating a huge fire fast, and hot.

What accelerant do they propose that would make it that hot? How much would it take, how did it get there, etc.

And can you consider only the heat of the fuel, don't you have to consider all the other materials in the fire in combination with the fuel, inside the space of the building, etc. Don't all those variables change the equation?

According to Prof. Jones of BYU, he claims that when they did chemical analysis of 2 pieces of the rubble, they found traces of a substance called Thermate, used by demolition crews. The Thermate, when combined with sulfur, will create a chemical reaction that will slice right through steel.

hailhailkc

duncan in the sand wrote:

Simple. They really didn't care if they were found or not. They got into Iraq, and once there, it would be too late to challenge the WMD. So they looked bad, billions of dollars makes it all feel better.

Actually, that's a pretty plausible scenario.

Ahnimus

hailhailkc wrote:

We haven't exactly been on friendly terms with Iraq in the last 15 years or so, so when exactly did we give these WMD to Saddam? And don't tell me it was when Rumsfeld was over there shaking his hand, because we all know that's NOT the WMD that we're talking about. So…when did this exchange of WMD happen, and furthermore, how do you KNOW it happened? And most importantly, WHY would Saddam…someone who's hated us for the last 15 years…agree to plant WMD for us?

And furthermore…if it was a plan for the even bigger "war on terror"…wouldn't you be REALLY screwing yourself if you didn't know for sure that the WMD would be there when you said it would?!!?

Who takes a risk like that?!?!

The US gave Saddam the weapons before the first gulf war. And Cheney did lie about there being WMDs he said before the war they know where the WMDs are, then afterwards when confronted by Ray McGovern I believe, he said "I didn't lie, I didn't say we knew where they were." there is a video of the two clips back-to-back. Sorry, I just can't seem to locate it right now. I'll keep looking for all this information for you.

Ahnimus

duncan in the sand wrote:

According to Prof. Jones of BYU, he claims that when they did chemical analysis of 2 pieces of the rubble, they found traces of a substance called Thermate, used by demolition crews. The Thermate, when combined with sulfur, will create a chemical reaction that will slice right through steel.

Let me correct that a bit. They found traces of Thermite, particularily potasium per manganese, they also found sulfur, which when added to thermite becomes the patented military incendiary thermate.

WindNoSail

duncan in the sand wrote:

You mean one-liners like..... Freedom is on the march, or.....They hate our freedoms, or.....Libs just want to cut and run, or.....the insurgency is in its last throes

Ummm, I was speaking to what you said....spin, spin, spin

Seriously though, they do hate us for our freedoms

WindNoSail

duncan in the sand wrote:

According to Prof. Jones of BYU, he claims that when they did chemical analysis of 2 pieces of the rubble, they found traces of a substance called Thermate, used by demolition crews. The Thermate, when combined with sulfur, will create a chemical reaction that will slice right through steel.

Slicing through metal in your theory is what brought down the towers, caused by explosives. Still doesn't explain what melted the metal.

Hell, for all I know thermate is used to make computer chips, or copiers, or maybe exists in the electrical wiring of the elevators.

duncan in the sand

Ahnimus wrote:

Let me correct that a bit. They found traces of Thermite, particularily potasium per manganese, they also found sulfur, which when added to thermite becomes the patented military incendiary thermate.

Thanks bro.

hailhailkc

Ahnimus wrote:

The US gave Saddam the weapons before the first gulf war. And Cheney did lie about there being WMDs he said before the war they know where the WMDs are, then afterwards when confronted by Ray McGovern I believe, he said "I didn't lie, I didn't say we knew where they were." there is a video of the two clips back-to-back. Sorry, I just can't seem to locate it right now. I'll keep looking for all this information for you.

You completely ignored what I said about the U.S. giving Saddam WMD before the first Gulf War. Those weapons, and the WMD that we here so much about today, are two totally different issues.

duncan in the sand

WindNoSail wrote:

Ummm, I was speaking to what you said....spin, spin, spin

Seriously though, they do hate us for our freedoms

I disagree. I believe they hate us because of our foreign policies, specifically our arming and massively lobsided support for Israel.

Ahnimus

Ahnimus wrote:

Let me correct that a bit. They found traces of Thermite, particularily potasium per manganese, they also found sulfur, which when added to thermite becomes the patented military incendiary thermate.

I forgot to mention also, these same components are mentioned in the NIST report.

Ahnimus

WindNoSail wrote:

Slicing through metal in your theory is what brought down the towers, caused by explosives. Still doesn't explain what melted the metal.

Hell, for all I know thermate is used to make computer chips, or copiers, or maybe exists in the electrical wiring of the elevators.

There is a good video online of thermite drilling through a car in a matter of seconds igniting the gas tank and exploding the car. Amongst other experiments.

You can view it here

WindNoSail

duncan in the sand wrote:

I disagree. I believe they hate us because of our foreign policies, specifically our arming and massively lobsided support for Israel.

oh ya, that too... I am in an agreeable mood tonight. But....they (fanatics)do ALSO hate us for our freedoms, which they associate with moral decay and lack of control of the society, which they believe neccessary for the religion. Dark ages meets nuclear age my friend.

WindNoSail

Ahnimus wrote:

There is a good video online of thermite drilling through a car in a matter of seconds igniting the gas tank and exploding the car. Amongst other experiments.

You can view it here

Very cooooool! Thanks!

That still goes against the timed explosions that are being discussed to bring down the building. If this was used, it would just have been an accelerant that maybe could melt the medal, but still not the timed explosions. Am i too skeptical?

If this stuff was in the tower, how was it used.

Pickr

That is some badass shit.

duncan in the sand

WindNoSail wrote:

oh ya, that too... I am in an agreeable mood tonight. But....they (fanatics)do ALSO hate us for our freedoms, which they associate with moral decay and lack of control of the society, which they believe neccessary for the religion. Dark ages meets nuclear age my friend.

From Sweden to Uraguay, there are many nations that have those same freedoms. Why don't they hate them. Maybe because they don't arm Israel.

Ahnimus

WindNoSail wrote:

Very cooooool! Thanks!

That still goes against the timed explosions that are being discussed to bring down the building. If this was used, it would just have been an accelerant that maybe could melt the medal, but still not the timed explosions. Am i too skeptical?

If this stuff was in the tower, how was it used.

No you aren't too skeptical. I don't think there is such a thing. It's people that buy everything that need help.

Thermite can be used in a lot of different ways, including thermite grenades, rather than an incendiary. There are some more examples of thermite reactions here

"Incendiary grenades produce intense heat by means of a chemical reaction. The body is practically the same as that a smoke grenade. The filler is 600 to 800 grams of thermate (TH3), which is an improved version of the World War II-era thermite. The chemical reaction that produces the heat is called a "thermite reaction." In this reaction, aluminum metal and iron oxide (rust) react to produce iron and aluminum oxide. This reaction produces a tremendous amount of heat, burning at 2200 degrees Celsius (4000 degrees Fahrenheit). A thermite grenade can melt together the metallic parts of an object. This makes incendiary grenades such as the AN-M14 useful for destroying weapons caches, artillery units, and vehicles. Other advantages of thermate include its ability to burn through a 1/2-inch (12,7 mm) steel plate, and that an external oxygen source is not needed to sustain the reaction. Because of this, an AN-M14 can burn underwater."

Diagram of Thermite Grenade
Wiki: Incendiary Grenades

WindNoSail

duncan in the sand wrote:

From Sweden to Uraguay, there are many nations that have those same freedoms. Why don't they hate them. Maybe because they don't arm Israel.

World domination is an aphrodisiac, if you can knock off your primary enemies it won't be long before you think you can fuck the rest of the world.

WindNoSail

Ahnimus wrote:

No you aren't too skeptical. I don't think there is such a thing. It's people that buy everything that need help.

Thermite can be used in a lot of different ways, including thermite grenades, rather than an incendiary. There are some more examples of thermite reactions here

"Incendiary grenades produce intense heat by means of a chemical reaction. The body is practically the same as that a smoke grenade. The filler is 600 to 800 grams of thermate (TH3), which is an improved version of the World War II-era thermite. The chemical reaction that produces the heat is called a "thermite reaction." In this reaction, aluminum metal and iron oxide (rust) react to produce iron and aluminum oxide. This reaction produces a tremendous amount of heat, burning at 2200 degrees Celsius (4000 degrees Fahrenheit). A thermite grenade can melt together the metallic parts of an object. This makes incendiary grenades such as the AN-M14 useful for destroying weapons caches, artillery units, and vehicles. Other advantages of thermate include its ability to burn through a 1/2-inch (12,7 mm) steel plate, and that an external oxygen source is not needed to sustain the reaction. Because of this, an AN-M14 can burn underwater."

Diagram of Thermite Grenade
Wiki: Incendiary Grenades

Man, I think I am getting aroused! This is much better than fireworks!!