Quana "massacre" staged...

Byrnzie

jsand wrote:

Don't even try...these people choose to believe what they want to believe - Israel is a terrorist state, blah blah blah. Throw facts and reasoning out the window.

This from someone who relies for his information on websites such as 'Confederate Yankee', which state things such as:

"The 34 children who died in this Israeli strike were innocent in that they know no other way of life than to hate Jews. But they were not civilians."

"Hezbollah purposefully put children in a building in a combat zone and launched rockets from outside their location, knowing the Israeli response. Hezbollah targeted Lebanese children with Israeli missiles."

"Based upon the evidence emerging, it seems more plausible than not that Hezbollah men were responsible for the deaths of Hezbollah women and children, and over-exploited that fact for media consumption."

jsand

Byrnzie wrote:

"The 34 children who died in this Israeli strike were innocent in that they know no other way of life than to hate Jews. But they were not civilians."

"Hezbollah purposefully put children in a building in a combat zone and launched rockets from outside their location, knowing the Israeli response. Hezbollah targeted Lebanese children with Israeli missiles."

"Based upon the evidence emerging, it seems more plausible than not that Hezbollah men were responsible for the deaths of Hezbollah women and children, and over-exploited that fact for media consumption."[/b]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Byrnzie

dayan wrote:

But it just isn't so simple. In terms of the tragedy of an innocent civilian losing his life you're right that civilian death is the same everywhere. However, there is a difference legally. Tragic as it is, civilian deaths are recognized as a reality of war. As such they are accepted as legal so long as civilians themselves were not specifically targeted, but died as, and I hate to use this term because I think it is callous, "collateral damage" associated with a strike on a legitimate military target. But you're right that civilian death is always tragic.

Civilians are being specifically targeted...

Israeli warplanes hit bus carrying evacuees
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=nation_world&id=4392494

Israel Targets Civilians Not Hezbollah
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=12643

Ambulance drivers tell tales of horror
http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2006/07/25/ambulance_drivers_tell_tales_of_horror/

thankyougrandma

dayan wrote:

But it just isn't so simple. In terms of the tragedy of an innocent civilian losing his life you're right that civilian death is the same everywhere. However, there is a difference legally. Tragic as it is, civilian deaths are recognized as a reality of war. As such they are accepted as legal so long as civilians themselves were not specifically targeted, but died as, and I hate to use this term because I think it is callous, "collateral damage" associated with a strike on a legitimate military target. But you're right that civilian death is always tragic.

great we've made a step forward, although colateral damage have their limits, you can't put everything on the shoulder of colateral damage, on this one (Qana) it was an all out mistake (as acknowledge by the Israeli govt.) This kind of mistake must not happen again, future inquiry and international report won't buy the colateral damage for everything, specially since the Israel army is not a fischer price army, using targetted missile should be more effective.

Now can you explain to me why civillians are now moving? I believe it's because Israel now allow them to, but i can be wrong. Also can you explain to me how this current offensive is doing any good for Israel? Can you explain to me how Israel are currently hurting Hezbollah? Cause my impression is that they are hurting Lebanon MORE than Hezbollah, even giving more support to Hezbollah, and i see no military end in sight, so we can expect more colateral damage i guess, horrible...

RainDog

Jesus Fucking Mohammad H. Moses Christ, people.

You know, it's possible to agree with Hezbollah's complaints without endorsing their actions - same as for Isreal. Believe me, I understand both sides: They're all complete idiots that wouldn't know what to do with themselves if the fighting ever stopped. Both sides - Isreal and Hezbollah. Poor Lebanon. Lord knows I'd hate to get bombed just because David Duke ran for office here once.

jsand

RainDog wrote:

Lord knows I'd hate to get bombed just because David Duke ran for office here once.

His election wouldn't justify bombing. However, if he were to set up an army of klansmen on the border between the US and Canada, for instance, carried out cross-border attacks, and the US did nothing about it, Canada would be completely justified in bombing this country.

Milhouse VanHouten

RainDog wrote:

Jesus Fucking Mohammad H. Moses Christ, people.

You know, it's possible to agree with Hezbollah's complaints without endorsing their actions - same as for Isreal. Believe me, I understand both sides: They're all complete idiots that wouldn't know what to do with themselves if the fighting ever stopped. Both sides - Isreal and Hezbollah. Poor Lebanon. Lord knows I'd hate to get bombed just because David Duke ran for office here once.

Word up.

It's a lot easier to look at this situation in a rational and objective manner if you go into it without a rabid partisan point of view...

thankyougrandma

jsand wrote:

His election wouldn't justify bombing. However, if he were to set up an army of klansmen on the border between the US and Canada, for instance, carried out cross-border attacks, and the US did nothing about it, Canada would be completely justified in bombing this country.

haha, said the international jurist... seriously, what you said is plain wrong, no, we wouldn't have the RIGHT to bomb anything, we'd have the right to find the criminal, if possible with the help of the american govt. and international community, but not bombing Chicago's powerplant or Pittsburgh highways, wow...

If the American army start bombing Canada, now that's another story... So far the Lebanese army suffered casualties without firing a round, how great is that? Colateral damage? Mistake? Justify?

RainDog

jsand wrote:

His election wouldn't justify bombing. However, if he were to set up an army of klansmen on the border between the US and Canada, for instance, carried out cross-border attacks, and the US did nothing about it, Canada would be completely justified in bombing this country.

I was mostly refering to David Dukes relationship with Louisiana, but anyhoo..

Then wouldn't we be justified in bombing Canada back? Or would we just say, "ah well. They only took out Detroit, and they were a shithole anyway. At least they got those dozen or so people." What if (though this is less of an issue these days) Canada then demanded that we silence - nay, oust - democratically elected Southern senators and congressmen because of their relationship with the Klan?

Milhouse VanHouten

RainDog wrote:

Then wouldn't we be justified in bombing Canada back? Or would we just say, "ah well. They only took out Detroit, and they were a shithole anyway. At least they got those dozen or so people." What if (though this is less of an issue these days) Canada then demanded that we silence - nay, oust - democratically elected Southern senators and congressmen because of their relationship with the Klan?

What would be the reaction from Americans if a Canadian rocket strike hit an American tank, wounding the crew, after Canadian forces mistakenly identified it as a Klan tank? The Canadians would just apologize and resume bombing.

This happened the other day in Lebanon, by the way. Israelis mistakenly targeted and hit a Lebanese tank. Somehow, none of the soldiers in the tank were killed.

thankyougrandma

RainDog wrote:

Jesus Fucking Mohammad H. Moses Christ, people.

You know, it's possible to agree with Hezbollah's complaints without endorsing their actions - same as for Isreal. Believe me, I understand both sides: They're all complete idiots that wouldn't know what to do with themselves if the fighting ever stopped. Both sides - Isreal and Hezbollah. Poor Lebanon. Lord knows I'd hate to get bombed just because David Duke ran for office here once.

it's hard not to take a side when you have someone who think that civillians who were killed should have known, or shouldn't have been there, including a woman with his 1 week baby (born under the bombing)... anyway i plead guilty, but my point is also good for the Hezbollah, they have responsabilities and are also responsible for many deaths, but i don't think current Israel offensive will hurt Hezbollah, just hurting Lebanese and Lebanon, therefore hurting Israel... Hezbollah will always be there, if not, it will be someone else, it was someone else before Hezbollah.

Recognize the state of Israel
Recognize the state of Palestine

then i believe you've made a bigger step towards this region stability than bombing Lebanon, that's just my westerner opinion...

RainDog

Milhouse VanHouten wrote:

What would be the reaction from Americans if a Canadian rocket strike hit an American tank, wounding the crew, after Canadian forces mistakenly identified it as a Klan tank? The Canadians would just apologize and resume bombing.

This happened the other day in Lebanon, by the way. Israelis mistakenly targeted and hit a Lebanese tank. Somehow, none of the soldiers in the tank were killed.

American tank? Klan tank? It's all the same when people like Trent Lott and Robert Byrd are still in office, right?

Byrnzie

jsand wrote:

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Redneck Hillbilly's are one of a kind. Stick to sucking straw and playing the banjo.

rebornFixer

Byrnzie wrote:

Redneck Hillbilly's are one of a kind. Stick to sucking straw and playing the banjo.

To cop a page from abook... (Haha ... clever little pun in there!)

Why don't you respond to the contents of his posts? Hmmm?

jsand

Byrnzie wrote:

Redneck Hillbilly's are one of a kind. Stick to sucking straw and playing the banjo.

That's all we do here in ol' New York City.

Byrnzie

jsand wrote:

Are you in Hezbollah? Because I thought this latest attack on Israel was about Lebanese prisoners.

Well respected experts and those close to the ground over there have said that this was almost certainly a bit of both - a show of solidarity with the Palestinians after they re-occupied Gaza, and an opportunity to instigate a prisoner exchange.

jsand

Byrnzie wrote:

Well respected experts and those close to the ground over there have said that this was almost certainly a bit of both - a show of solidarity with the Palestinians after they re-occupied Gaza, and an opportunity to instigate a prisoner exchange.

Oh, a show of solidarity with the Palestinians for their indiscriminate rocket attacks that were launched from Gaza? Well isn't that special.

And how come the only place I've heard about it being some show of solidarity with the Palestinians is on this message board?

Milhouse VanHouten

RainDog wrote:

American tank? Klan tank? It's all the same when people like Trent Lott and Robert Byrd are still in office, right?

I see your point. Demanding the ouster of a democratically elected government official would be pretty outrageous put in a non-Middle Eastern context. Of course, it's not like we've never done that before. How many popularly elected leaders in Latin America did we have "removed" from power during the 20th century?

On the other hand, there are a few Republican members of the House and Senate that I wouldn't mind seeing removed from power...

RockinInCanada

jsand wrote:

Don't let this get you down, Rockin'...just keep saying the entire country was carpet bombed.

Jsand keep up your beliefs that these actions are justified...b/c Im sticking to mine....keep telling yourself that these deaths will save future lives in the future...keep tellign yourself these deaths will bring peace to the region...keep telling yourself that these are appropriate actions....cause guess what they will do none of the above...hope I dont see you on this board complaining about future suicide bombers from Lebanon....but then again according to your thinking this offensive over-kill will rid the Middle East of terror....when I believe it has made things 100% worse...just like the American offensive in Iraq is giving America a clean name world-wide...I am willing to bet there will be more relgious fundamentalist nuts today than there was less than a month ago...a year ago...two years ago....an so forth....

thankyougrandma

jsand wrote:

Oh, a show of solidarity with the Palestinians for their indiscriminate rocket attacks that were launched from Gaza? Well isn't that special.

And how come the only place I've heard about it being some show of solidarity with the Palestinians is on this message board?

haha, that explain a lot...