OTTAWA (CP) - Canada is calling for a ceasefire in the Mideast conflict - provided the right conditions are in place.
Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay says that means Hezbollah must end its missile attacks on Israel, and Iran and Syria must end their support for Hezbollah aggression.
In the meantime, he called on Israel to show restraint in its attacks on Hezbollah positions in southern Lebanon.
sound familiar, i think i've heard that somewhere...
MacKay was at a Commons committee today on the Mideast conflict and the evacuation of Canadians from Lebanon.
He said Ottawa's priorities have been to protect Canadians in the region, provide humanitarian aid, and promote stability and peace.
About 13,000 Canadians have been evacuated from Lebanon.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper has faced withering criticism over his decision to defend Israel's air strikes as a "measured" response after the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah.
A new poll suggests a majority of Canadians do not support Prime Minister Stephen Harper's decision to support Israel in the Middle East crisis.
Well Canada should not be in that group of four considering its citizens are dead against it as well....the same could be said of the British as well....I tell you leadership that goes against the populace is just plain wrong....
damn those polls number are changing from day to day, maybe these newspaper should pay for real polls instead of only 1000 sample for the whole country, 1000 from each province would be more accurate.
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
sound familiar, i think i've heard that somewhere...
damn those polls number are changing from day to day, maybe these newspaper should pay for real polls instead of only 1000 sample for the whole country, 1000 from each province would be more accurate.
This came from The Sun's media site...so i would bet the majority of Canadians are against this considering the slant this media usually takes on these matters....
Yep and how are people to evacuate the area when all the main infrastructure was destroyed in the opening days of this conflict...on their feet through the middle of the desert...such a weak excuse this so called warning....maybe would have some justifcation if the entire country wasn't carpet bombed and there were ACTUAL ways to get out safe and easy....
I'm sorry, but I'm not really sure this was the case. Remember that thousands of Lebanese have gone to Syria. How did they get there if travel was impossible. So too with all the westerners who have been evacuated from Lebanon. Also, as was pointed out, if reporters, camera men, and rescue workers could get to the village of Qana within an hour of the buildings collapse then it must have been possible to get out as well.
I'm sorry, but I'm not really sure this was the case. Remember that thousands of Lebanese have gone to Syria. How did they get there if travel was impossible. So too with all the westerners who have been evacuated from Lebanon. Also, as was pointed out, if reporters, camera men, and rescue workers could get to the village of Qana within an hour of the buildings collapse then it must have been possible to get out as well.
tss tss, Israel stopped their aerial strikes and allowed Lebanese to open roads and travel, UN, Red Cross and civillians were suddenly invading highways (probably still are), please that's not an invention of the westerners...
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
I'm sorry, but I'm not really sure this was the case. Remember that thousands of Lebanese have gone to Syria. How did they get there if travel was impossible. So too with all the westerners who have been evacuated from Lebanon. Also, as was pointed out, if reporters, camera men, and rescue workers could get to the village of Qana within an hour of the buildings collapse then it must have been possible to get out as well.
Don't let this get you down, Rockin'...just keep saying the entire country was carpet bombed.
Don't let this get you down, Rockin'...just keep saying the entire country was carpet bombed.
2 weeks of bombing sure doesn't help the country's infrastructure, i guess Israel bomb are clean and don't destroy anything, they just destroyed Hezbollah fighters, they're intelligent bomb, funny shit...
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Well the south has been and if you won't realize that you seriously are out of touch....so can I ask if Hezbollah decided next time to warn Haifia of its missle lauch times it will be justified? Because that is the logic you are using, pretty damn backwards isn't it..
You seem to believe innocent Lebonese lives are not worth the lives of an Israeli citizen which is tragic if that is the case...because thats how I view it....them being equal that is....
There are a few differences however. Israel is targeting military targets deliberately situated in civilian areas by Hezbollah in response to Hezbollah's attack across Israel's recognized border. This Hezbollah attack, in which eight Israeli soldiers were killed and two kidnapped, has been universally recognized as the event that triggered this war. Before that event Israel was in no way attacking Lebanon. Furthermore, Hezbollah is deliberately targeting civilians. They are not firing at military targets and accidentally hitting civilians. They are deliberately targeting civilians. Israel is targeting Hezbollah's military capability, which Hezbollah deliberatly places in civilian populations knowing that inevitably the result of Israel's attacks on Hezbollah's legitimate military targets will result in civilian casualties, civilian casualties that serve Hezbollah's purposes in turning world opinion against Israel.
2 weeks of bombing sure doesn't help the country's infrastructure, i guess Israel bomb are clean and don't destroy anything, they just destroyed Hezbollah fighters, they're intelligent bomb, funny shit...
I never said Israel's bombs didn't do damage. I simply said that it seems unlikely that travel was impossible.
2 weeks of bombing sure doesn't help the country's infrastructure, i guess Israel bomb are clean and don't destroy anything, they just destroyed Hezbollah fighters, they're intelligent bomb, funny shit...
Yup. Funny shit. You see a few buildings leveled on TV and assume the entire country's infrastucture has been destroyed. Funny shit.
There are a few differences however. Israel is targeting military targets deliberately situated in civilian areas by Hezbollah in response to Hezbollah's attack across Israel's recognized border. This Hezbollah attack, in which eight Israeli soldiers were killed and two kidnapped, has been universally recognized as the event that triggered this war. Before that event Israel was in no way attacking Lebanon. Furthermore, Hezbollah is deliberately targeting civilians. They are not firing at military targets and accidentally hitting civilians. They are deliberately targeting civilians. Israel is targeting Hezbollah's military capability, which Hezbollah deliberatly places in civilian populations knowing that inevitably the result of Israel's attacks on Hezbollah's legitimate military targets will result in civilian casualties, civilian casualties that serve Hezbollah's purposes in turning world opinion against Israel.
Don't even try...these people choose to believe what they want to believe - Israel is a terrorist state, blah blah blah. Throw facts and reasoning out the window.
This Hezbollah attack, in which eight Israeli soldiers were killed and two kidnapped, has been universally recognized as the event that triggered this war. Before that event Israel was in no way attacking Lebanon.
This war was actually triggered by 58 years of Israeli aggression in the region, culminating in their re-invasion of Gaza. Finally an armed group in the region stood up in a show of sympathy for the Palestinians.
I have not once quoted from prisonplanet or infowars.
I don't care if you quote directly from them or not.
My point since the beginning of this topic is this:
When it comes to the outrage shown towards the US government for the massive 9/11 conspiracy plot espoused by that site and others, certain folks are oh-so-quick to jump on that bandwagon because my gosh, it's the government, and it's conservative, and the President is a Christian. Such evil.
And yet, here we are with something similiar, though not as drastic, but still involving death, and this similiar plot could very well be doctored by a group which the same certain folks refuse to call what they are (Terrorists) and instead come up with some kum-ba-yah-happy-feely-PC term like "freedom fighters."
The silence so far from those certain folks is deafening.
I never said Israel's bombs didn't do damage. I simply said that it seems unlikely that travel was impossible.
So why do they travel now that the Israel airstrikes are suspended? please answer me cause i'm fucking clueless about what you mean, probably that Hezbollah were holding them hostage. It's easier to believe that 6000 alleged fighters are holding 500000 civillians in hostage, than to say that they can't leave cause they're either scared, don't have the means to go (New Orleans someone?), don't know where to go, whatever. I still don't get why you keep defending all this, killing a civilian is killing a civillian, even if there is a criminal behind him, simple concept.
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
This war was actually triggered by 58 years of Israeli aggression in the region, culminating in their re-invasion of Gaza. Finally an armed group in the region stood up in a show of sympathy for the Palestinians.
You may think this, but here at least everyone else with half a brain disagrees. Or maybe you don't read the papers?
So why do they travel now that the Israel airstrikes are suspended? please answer me cause i'm fucking clueless about what you mean, probably that Hezbollah were holding them hostage. It's easier to believe that 6000 alleged fighters are holding 500000 civillians in hostage, than to say that they can't leave cause they're either scared, don't have the means to go (New Orleans someone?), don't know where to go, whatever. I still don't get why you keep defending all this, killing a civilian is killing a civillian, even if there is a criminal behind him, simple concept.
But it just isn't so simple. In terms of the tragedy of an innocent civilian losing his life you're right that civilian death is the same everywhere. However, there is a difference legally. Tragic as it is, civilian deaths are recognized as a reality of war. As such they are accepted as legal so long as civilians themselves were not specifically targeted, but died as, and I hate to use this term because I think it is callous, "collateral damage" associated with a strike on a legitimate military target. But you're right that civilian death is always tragic.
Don't even try...these people choose to believe what they want to believe - Israel is a terrorist state, blah blah blah. Throw facts and reasoning out the window.
This from someone who relies for his information on websites such as 'Confederate Yankee', which state things such as:
"The 34 children who died in this Israeli strike were innocent in that they know no other way of life than to hate Jews. But they were not civilians."
"Hezbollah purposefully put children in a building in a combat zone and launched rockets from outside their location, knowing the Israeli response. Hezbollah targeted Lebanese children with Israeli missiles."
"Based upon the evidence emerging, it seems more plausible than not that Hezbollah men were responsible for the deaths of Hezbollah women and children, and over-exploited that fact for media consumption."
"The 34 children who died in this Israeli strike were innocent in that they know no other way of life than to hate Jews. But they were not civilians."
"Hezbollah purposefully put children in a building in a combat zone and launched rockets from outside their location, knowing the Israeli response. Hezbollah targeted Lebanese children with Israeli missiles."
"Based upon the evidence emerging, it seems more plausible than not that Hezbollah men were responsible for the deaths of Hezbollah women and children, and over-exploited that fact for media consumption."[/b]
But it just isn't so simple. In terms of the tragedy of an innocent civilian losing his life you're right that civilian death is the same everywhere. However, there is a difference legally. Tragic as it is, civilian deaths are recognized as a reality of war. As such they are accepted as legal so long as civilians themselves were not specifically targeted, but died as, and I hate to use this term because I think it is callous, "collateral damage" associated with a strike on a legitimate military target. But you're right that civilian death is always tragic.
But it just isn't so simple. In terms of the tragedy of an innocent civilian losing his life you're right that civilian death is the same everywhere. However, there is a difference legally. Tragic as it is, civilian deaths are recognized as a reality of war. As such they are accepted as legal so long as civilians themselves were not specifically targeted, but died as, and I hate to use this term because I think it is callous, "collateral damage" associated with a strike on a legitimate military target. But you're right that civilian death is always tragic.
great we've made a step forward, although colateral damage have their limits, you can't put everything on the shoulder of colateral damage, on this one (Qana) it was an all out mistake (as acknowledge by the Israeli govt.) This kind of mistake must not happen again, future inquiry and international report won't buy the colateral damage for everything, specially since the Israel army is not a fischer price army, using targetted missile should be more effective.
Now can you explain to me why civillians are now moving? I believe it's because Israel now allow them to, but i can be wrong. Also can you explain to me how this current offensive is doing any good for Israel? Can you explain to me how Israel are currently hurting Hezbollah? Cause my impression is that they are hurting Lebanon MORE than Hezbollah, even giving more support to Hezbollah, and i see no military end in sight, so we can expect more colateral damage i guess, horrible...
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
You know, it's possible to agree with Hezbollah's complaints without endorsing their actions - same as for Isreal. Believe me, I understand both sides: They're all complete idiots that wouldn't know what to do with themselves if the fighting ever stopped. Both sides - Isreal and Hezbollah. Poor Lebanon. Lord knows I'd hate to get bombed just because David Duke ran for office here once.
Lord knows I'd hate to get bombed just because David Duke ran for office here once.
His election wouldn't justify bombing. However, if he were to set up an army of klansmen on the border between the US and Canada, for instance, carried out cross-border attacks, and the US did nothing about it, Canada would be completely justified in bombing this country.
You know, it's possible to agree with Hezbollah's complaints without endorsing their actions - same as for Isreal. Believe me, I understand both sides: They're all complete idiots that wouldn't know what to do with themselves if the fighting ever stopped. Both sides - Isreal and Hezbollah. Poor Lebanon. Lord knows I'd hate to get bombed just because David Duke ran for office here once.
Word up.
It's a lot easier to look at this situation in a rational and objective manner if you go into it without a rabid partisan point of view...
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
His election wouldn't justify bombing. However, if he were to set up an army of klansmen on the border between the US and Canada, for instance, carried out cross-border attacks, and the US did nothing about it, Canada would be completely justified in bombing this country.
haha, said the international jurist... seriously, what you said is plain wrong, no, we wouldn't have the RIGHT to bomb anything, we'd have the right to find the criminal, if possible with the help of the american govt. and international community, but not bombing Chicago's powerplant or Pittsburgh highways, wow...
If the American army start bombing Canada, now that's another story... So far the Lebanese army suffered casualties without firing a round, how great is that? Colateral damage? Mistake? Justify?
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
His election wouldn't justify bombing. However, if he were to set up an army of klansmen on the border between the US and Canada, for instance, carried out cross-border attacks, and the US did nothing about it, Canada would be completely justified in bombing this country.
I was mostly refering to David Dukes relationship with Louisiana, but anyhoo..
Then wouldn't we be justified in bombing Canada back? Or would we just say, "ah well. They only took out Detroit, and they were a shithole anyway. At least they got those dozen or so people." What if (though this is less of an issue these days) Canada then demanded that we silence - nay, oust - democratically elected Southern senators and congressmen because of their relationship with the Klan?
Then wouldn't we be justified in bombing Canada back? Or would we just say, "ah well. They only took out Detroit, and they were a shithole anyway. At least they got those dozen or so people." What if (though this is less of an issue these days) Canada then demanded that we silence - nay, oust - democratically elected Southern senators and congressmen because of their relationship with the Klan?
What would be the reaction from Americans if a Canadian rocket strike hit an American tank, wounding the crew, after Canadian forces mistakenly identified it as a Klan tank? The Canadians would just apologize and resume bombing.
This happened the other day in Lebanon, by the way. Israelis mistakenly targeted and hit a Lebanese tank. Somehow, none of the soldiers in the tank were killed.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
Comments
sound familiar, i think i've heard that somewhere...
damn those polls number are changing from day to day, maybe these newspaper should pay for real polls instead of only 1000 sample for the whole country, 1000 from each province would be more accurate.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
This came from The Sun's media site...so i would bet the majority of Canadians are against this considering the slant this media usually takes on these matters....
The Train keeps a rolling ...
we got bored i guess, Harper was an easy target, blame Rockin'Canada... hehe...
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Hey, this time, the Harper bashing was actually a move in the right direction.
I'm sorry, but I'm not really sure this was the case. Remember that thousands of Lebanese have gone to Syria. How did they get there if travel was impossible. So too with all the westerners who have been evacuated from Lebanon. Also, as was pointed out, if reporters, camera men, and rescue workers could get to the village of Qana within an hour of the buildings collapse then it must have been possible to get out as well.
tss tss, Israel stopped their aerial strikes and allowed Lebanese to open roads and travel, UN, Red Cross and civillians were suddenly invading highways (probably still are), please that's not an invention of the westerners...
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Don't let this get you down, Rockin'...just keep saying the entire country was carpet bombed.
2 weeks of bombing sure doesn't help the country's infrastructure, i guess Israel bomb are clean and don't destroy anything, they just destroyed Hezbollah fighters, they're intelligent bomb, funny shit...
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
There are a few differences however. Israel is targeting military targets deliberately situated in civilian areas by Hezbollah in response to Hezbollah's attack across Israel's recognized border. This Hezbollah attack, in which eight Israeli soldiers were killed and two kidnapped, has been universally recognized as the event that triggered this war. Before that event Israel was in no way attacking Lebanon. Furthermore, Hezbollah is deliberately targeting civilians. They are not firing at military targets and accidentally hitting civilians. They are deliberately targeting civilians. Israel is targeting Hezbollah's military capability, which Hezbollah deliberatly places in civilian populations knowing that inevitably the result of Israel's attacks on Hezbollah's legitimate military targets will result in civilian casualties, civilian casualties that serve Hezbollah's purposes in turning world opinion against Israel.
I never said Israel's bombs didn't do damage. I simply said that it seems unlikely that travel was impossible.
Yup. Funny shit. You see a few buildings leveled on TV and assume the entire country's infrastucture has been destroyed. Funny shit.
Don't even try...these people choose to believe what they want to believe - Israel is a terrorist state, blah blah blah. Throw facts and reasoning out the window.
This war was actually triggered by 58 years of Israeli aggression in the region, culminating in their re-invasion of Gaza. Finally an armed group in the region stood up in a show of sympathy for the Palestinians.
I don't care if you quote directly from them or not.
My point since the beginning of this topic is this:
When it comes to the outrage shown towards the US government for the massive 9/11 conspiracy plot espoused by that site and others, certain folks are oh-so-quick to jump on that bandwagon because my gosh, it's the government, and it's conservative, and the President is a Christian. Such evil.
And yet, here we are with something similiar, though not as drastic, but still involving death, and this similiar plot could very well be doctored by a group which the same certain folks refuse to call what they are (Terrorists) and instead come up with some kum-ba-yah-happy-feely-PC term like "freedom fighters."
The silence so far from those certain folks is deafening.
So why do they travel now that the Israel airstrikes are suspended? please answer me cause i'm fucking clueless about what you mean, probably that Hezbollah were holding them hostage. It's easier to believe that 6000 alleged fighters are holding 500000 civillians in hostage, than to say that they can't leave cause they're either scared, don't have the means to go (New Orleans someone?), don't know where to go, whatever. I still don't get why you keep defending all this, killing a civilian is killing a civillian, even if there is a criminal behind him, simple concept.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
You may think this, but here at least everyone else with half a brain disagrees. Or maybe you don't read the papers?
Read: This war was actually triggered by 58 years of Israeli EXISTENCE.
Are you in Hezbollah? Because I thought this latest attack on Israel was about Lebanese prisoners.
But it just isn't so simple. In terms of the tragedy of an innocent civilian losing his life you're right that civilian death is the same everywhere. However, there is a difference legally. Tragic as it is, civilian deaths are recognized as a reality of war. As such they are accepted as legal so long as civilians themselves were not specifically targeted, but died as, and I hate to use this term because I think it is callous, "collateral damage" associated with a strike on a legitimate military target. But you're right that civilian death is always tragic.
This from someone who relies for his information on websites such as 'Confederate Yankee', which state things such as:
"The 34 children who died in this Israeli strike were innocent in that they know no other way of life than to hate Jews. But they were not civilians."
"Hezbollah purposefully put children in a building in a combat zone and launched rockets from outside their location, knowing the Israeli response. Hezbollah targeted Lebanese children with Israeli missiles."
"Based upon the evidence emerging, it seems more plausible than not that Hezbollah men were responsible for the deaths of Hezbollah women and children, and over-exploited that fact for media consumption."
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Civilians are being specifically targeted...
Israeli warplanes hit bus carrying evacuees
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=nation_world&id=4392494
Israel Targets Civilians Not Hezbollah
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=12643
Ambulance drivers tell tales of horror
http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2006/07/25/ambulance_drivers_tell_tales_of_horror/
great we've made a step forward, although colateral damage have their limits, you can't put everything on the shoulder of colateral damage, on this one (Qana) it was an all out mistake (as acknowledge by the Israeli govt.) This kind of mistake must not happen again, future inquiry and international report won't buy the colateral damage for everything, specially since the Israel army is not a fischer price army, using targetted missile should be more effective.
Now can you explain to me why civillians are now moving? I believe it's because Israel now allow them to, but i can be wrong. Also can you explain to me how this current offensive is doing any good for Israel? Can you explain to me how Israel are currently hurting Hezbollah? Cause my impression is that they are hurting Lebanon MORE than Hezbollah, even giving more support to Hezbollah, and i see no military end in sight, so we can expect more colateral damage i guess, horrible...
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
You know, it's possible to agree with Hezbollah's complaints without endorsing their actions - same as for Isreal. Believe me, I understand both sides: They're all complete idiots that wouldn't know what to do with themselves if the fighting ever stopped. Both sides - Isreal and Hezbollah. Poor Lebanon. Lord knows I'd hate to get bombed just because David Duke ran for office here once.
His election wouldn't justify bombing. However, if he were to set up an army of klansmen on the border between the US and Canada, for instance, carried out cross-border attacks, and the US did nothing about it, Canada would be completely justified in bombing this country.
Word up.
It's a lot easier to look at this situation in a rational and objective manner if you go into it without a rabid partisan point of view...
haha, said the international jurist... seriously, what you said is plain wrong, no, we wouldn't have the RIGHT to bomb anything, we'd have the right to find the criminal, if possible with the help of the american govt. and international community, but not bombing Chicago's powerplant or Pittsburgh highways, wow...
If the American army start bombing Canada, now that's another story... So far the Lebanese army suffered casualties without firing a round, how great is that? Colateral damage? Mistake? Justify?
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Then wouldn't we be justified in bombing Canada back? Or would we just say, "ah well. They only took out Detroit, and they were a shithole anyway. At least they got those dozen or so people." What if (though this is less of an issue these days) Canada then demanded that we silence - nay, oust - democratically elected Southern senators and congressmen because of their relationship with the Klan?
What would be the reaction from Americans if a Canadian rocket strike hit an American tank, wounding the crew, after Canadian forces mistakenly identified it as a Klan tank? The Canadians would just apologize and resume bombing.
This happened the other day in Lebanon, by the way. Israelis mistakenly targeted and hit a Lebanese tank. Somehow, none of the soldiers in the tank were killed.