You know, it's possible to agree with Hezbollah's complaints without endorsing their actions - same as for Isreal. Believe me, I understand both sides: They're all complete idiots that wouldn't know what to do with themselves if the fighting ever stopped. Both sides - Isreal and Hezbollah. Poor Lebanon. Lord knows I'd hate to get bombed just because David Duke ran for office here once.
it's hard not to take a side when you have someone who think that civillians who were killed should have known, or shouldn't have been there, including a woman with his 1 week baby (born under the bombing)... anyway i plead guilty, but my point is also good for the Hezbollah, they have responsabilities and are also responsible for many deaths, but i don't think current Israel offensive will hurt Hezbollah, just hurting Lebanese and Lebanon, therefore hurting Israel... Hezbollah will always be there, if not, it will be someone else, it was someone else before Hezbollah.
Recognize the state of Israel
Recognize the state of Palestine
then i believe you've made a bigger step towards this region stability than bombing Lebanon, that's just my westerner opinion...
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
What would be the reaction from Americans if a Canadian rocket strike hit an American tank, wounding the crew, after Canadian forces mistakenly identified it as a Klan tank? The Canadians would just apologize and resume bombing.
This happened the other day in Lebanon, by the way. Israelis mistakenly targeted and hit a Lebanese tank. Somehow, none of the soldiers in the tank were killed.
American tank? Klan tank? It's all the same when people like Trent Lott and Robert Byrd are still in office, right?
Are you in Hezbollah? Because I thought this latest attack on Israel was about Lebanese prisoners.
Well respected experts and those close to the ground over there have said that this was almost certainly a bit of both - a show of solidarity with the Palestinians after they re-occupied Gaza, and an opportunity to instigate a prisoner exchange.
Well respected experts and those close to the ground over there have said that this was almost certainly a bit of both - a show of solidarity with the Palestinians after they re-occupied Gaza, and an opportunity to instigate a prisoner exchange.
Oh, a show of solidarity with the Palestinians for their indiscriminate rocket attacks that were launched from Gaza? Well isn't that special.
And how come the only place I've heard about it being some show of solidarity with the Palestinians is on this message board?
American tank? Klan tank? It's all the same when people like Trent Lott and Robert Byrd are still in office, right?
I see your point. Demanding the ouster of a democratically elected government official would be pretty outrageous put in a non-Middle Eastern context. Of course, it's not like we've never done that before. How many popularly elected leaders in Latin America did we have "removed" from power during the 20th century?
On the other hand, there are a few Republican members of the House and Senate that I wouldn't mind seeing removed from power...
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
Don't let this get you down, Rockin'...just keep saying the entire country was carpet bombed.
Jsand keep up your beliefs that these actions are justified...b/c Im sticking to mine....keep telling yourself that these deaths will save future lives in the future...keep tellign yourself these deaths will bring peace to the region...keep telling yourself that these are appropriate actions....cause guess what they will do none of the above...hope I dont see you on this board complaining about future suicide bombers from Lebanon....but then again according to your thinking this offensive over-kill will rid the Middle East of terror....when I believe it has made things 100% worse...just like the American offensive in Iraq is giving America a clean name world-wide...I am willing to bet there will be more relgious fundamentalist nuts today than there was less than a month ago...a year ago...two years ago....an so forth....
Here is another perspective on the Qana incident...
Another Israeli Myth Exposed: There Were No Hezbollah Rockets In Qana Meanwhile, northern Israeli residents say they have more chance of winning the lottery than getting hit by a Katyusha missile
There were no Hezbollah rockets and no Hezbollah militants in the village of Qana that was leveled by the Israelis on Sunday night, according to village residents and Red Cross workers stationed in the area. Another apologist fabrication to justify Israeli atrocities has been exposed as a total fraud.
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert claimed Sunday Hezbollah were, "hiding places for rockets inside the village and the village itself is a safe haven for those who launch rockets."
Israeli media mouthpieces and drooling Neo-Cons have repeatedly tried to portray Israel's rampant war crimes as a right to self-defense, even in light of mounting atrocities and the deliberate targeting of aid workers, ambulances, UN observers, and women and children who slept in their beds and never woke up.
"There were no Hezbollah rockets fired from Qana - this was the justification given by the Israelis for bombing the shelter and again carrying out a massive bombardment all that night long and well into the next day of that entire village," Dahr Jamail told the Alex Jones Show.
Jamail is a Christian Lebanese American independent journalist who has worked for the Guardian, the Independent, and the Sunday Herald.
"They claim that it was Hezbollah's fault, that they were forced to murder these innocent people because Hezbollah continues to fire rockets into Israel."
"I spoke with two residents at the scene of the bombing, two people who were nearby, who lived in the village and they said of course there were no Hezbollah rockets fired from this village because when Hezbollah does that all of the villagers clear out immediately because people are well aware that once those rockets are fired Israel is going to retaliate with a massive air strike on the entire area."
"So no rockets were fired according to the residents there."
Jamail also verified this contention by speaking to aid workers in the nearby city of Tyre.
"These claims were backed up not only by residents but when I talked to the Lebanese Red Cross they said the same thing - they said no when we go into these villages usually we can find evidence if there is any - we will find rocket launchers, we will find guns, we will even find some Hezbollah fighters," said Jamail.
"One of them who was actually the training manager of the Red Cross down there, he said there was 100 per cent no evidence - that city was clear - there was no evidence of any rockets fired from there whatsoever."
Jamail said that "without a doubt" Israel was intentionally targeting civilians, with a particular focus on medical workers and rescue workers.
He said that the policy was based on blood thirst and collective punishment with an overarching agenda to pull Iran and Syria into the mire so Israel can justify subsequent attacks on those countries.
For those still choosing to live in cloud cuckoo land and believe the fallacy of the 'right to self-defense' argument - consider the words of one resident of Kiryat Shmona, a town on the northern most border of Israel.
“I’M STAYING. [!!!!!!!] I have more chance of winning the lottery than being hit by a Katyusha [missile].[!!!!!!!] We are suffering too much from Hezbollah. They should get in there, finish the whole thing and get it done once and for all.”
More chance of winning the lottery than being hit by a Hezbollah missile. Compare that to the untold horror that has been inflicted on a nation of innocent people whose very day to day existence has been turned into simple question of survival.
Prison Planet.tv members can listen to the entire interview with Dahr Jamail by clicking here. Please consider becoming a subscriber by clicking here.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Here is another perspective on the Qana incident...
Another Israeli Myth Exposed: There Were No Hezbollah Rockets In Qana Meanwhile, northern Israeli residents say they have more chance of winning the lottery than getting hit by a Katyusha missile
There were no Hezbollah rockets and no Hezbollah militants in the village of Qana that was leveled by the Israelis on Sunday night, according to village residents and Red Cross workers stationed in the area. Another apologist fabrication to justify Israeli atrocities has been exposed as a total fraud.
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert claimed Sunday Hezbollah were, "hiding places for rockets inside the village and the village itself is a safe haven for those who launch rockets."
Israeli media mouthpieces and drooling Neo-Cons have repeatedly tried to portray Israel's rampant war crimes as a right to self-defense, even in light of mounting atrocities and the deliberate targeting of aid workers, ambulances, UN observers, and women and children who slept in their beds and never woke up.
"There were no Hezbollah rockets fired from Qana - this was the justification given by the Israelis for bombing the shelter and again carrying out a massive bombardment all that night long and well into the next day of that entire village," Dahr Jamail told the Alex Jones Show.
Jamail is a Christian Lebanese American independent journalist who has worked for the Guardian, the Independent, and the Sunday Herald.
"They claim that it was Hezbollah's fault, that they were forced to murder these innocent people because Hezbollah continues to fire rockets into Israel."
"I spoke with two residents at the scene of the bombing, two people who were nearby, who lived in the village and they said of course there were no Hezbollah rockets fired from this village because when Hezbollah does that all of the villagers clear out immediately because people are well aware that once those rockets are fired Israel is going to retaliate with a massive air strike on the entire area."
"So no rockets were fired according to the residents there."
Jamail also verified this contention by speaking to aid workers in the nearby city of Tyre.
"These claims were backed up not only by residents but when I talked to the Lebanese Red Cross they said the same thing - they said no when we go into these villages usually we can find evidence if there is any - we will find rocket launchers, we will find guns, we will even find some Hezbollah fighters," said Jamail.
"One of them who was actually the training manager of the Red Cross down there, he said there was 100 per cent no evidence - that city was clear - there was no evidence of any rockets fired from there whatsoever."
Jamail said that "without a doubt" Israel was intentionally targeting civilians, with a particular focus on medical workers and rescue workers.
He said that the policy was based on blood thirst and collective punishment with an overarching agenda to pull Iran and Syria into the mire so Israel can justify subsequent attacks on those countries.
For those still choosing to live in cloud cuckoo land and believe the fallacy of the 'right to self-defense' argument - consider the words of one resident of Kiryat Shmona, a town on the northern most border of Israel.
“I’M STAYING. [!!!!!!!] I have more chance of winning the lottery than being hit by a Katyusha [missile].[!!!!!!!] We are suffering too much from Hezbollah. They should get in there, finish the whole thing and get it done once and for all.”
More chance of winning the lottery than being hit by a Hezbollah missile. Compare that to the untold horror that has been inflicted on a nation of innocent people whose very day to day existence has been turned into simple question of survival.
Prison Planet.tv members can listen to the entire interview with Dahr Jamail by clicking here. Please consider becoming a subscriber by clicking here.
While I've never actually read from or visited the website you got this from, (prison planet is it?) from what I've heard about it it doesn't really seem like an objective source, or even a subjective source that strives for objectivity. It seems to have already been proven beyond a doubt that Qana was being used to launch rockets at Israel, so I don't really see what this adds to the discussion, except to show that some people will deny the truth that is staring them in the face so long as it serves their political theology.
While I've never actually read from or visited the website you got this from, (prison planet is it?) from what I've heard about it it doesn't really seem like an objective source, or even a subjective source that strives for objectivity.
Unlike the website which you have sourced material from for this particular thread title Dayan - 'Confederate Yankee'. This website would be hilarious if it wasn't so sick and twisted. http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/
Unlike the website which you have sourced material from for this particular thread title Dayan - 'Confederate Yankee'. This website would be hilarious if it wasn't so sick and twisted. http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/
Haaaaa haaaaaa!!
You crack me up Dayan!!
Now that is a blatent lie. I have never sourced material from that site. If this is the best you can do I'm really disappointed. I say something with content, and you come back and tell me I'm wrong because I quoted from something I never quoted from. Interesting though, that you don't actually refute my comment that this prison planet website is full of shit. Maybe cause you know that's blatently obvious, and you don't want to look stupid saying it.
A prisonplanet.com article posted in response........wheee, that was classic. Absolutely classic. Not much else to say after that. Just let the ridiculousness of it all speak for itself.
A prisonplanet.com article posted in response........wheee, that was classic. Absolutely classic. Not much else to say after that. Just let the ridiculousness of it all speak for itself.
What do you think of the original link provided by the poster.....
Now that is a blatent lie. I have never sourced material from that site. If this is the best you can do I'm really disappointed. I say something with content, and you come back and tell me I'm wrong because I quoted from something I never quoted from. Interesting though, that you don't actually refute my comment that this prison planet website is full of shit. Maybe cause you know that's blatently obvious, and you don't want to look stupid saying it.
I take it all back. I got you mixed up with your buddy jsand. Still, you certainly accepted everything that wacko website - ConfederateYankee - had to say. That's nothing to be proud of. And as for Prison Planet, i've never looked at the thing, and have certainly never quoted from it, so your comments with regards to that are a tad off target.
I take it all back. I got you mixed up with your buddy jsand. Still, you certainly accepted everything that wacko website - ConfederateYankee - had to say. That's nothing to be proud of. And as for Prison Planet, i've never looked at the thing, and have certainly never quoted from it, so your comments with regards to that are a tad off target.
Again you falsely accuse me. I didn't even mention any of that conspiracy theory in any of my responses, so I'm not quite sure where you get off saying that I accepted everything on that website. Furthermore, I never said you used info from prison planet. I simply said that in your response to my post you attack me for saying that prison planet is a bogus site, but don't actually disagree with my assessment.
A prisonplanet.com article posted in response........wheee, that was classic. Absolutely classic. Not much else to say after that. Just let the ridiculousness of it all speak for itself.
I said it's another perspective, another bit of information. Does it really matter where it comes from when people quote guys like Maddox?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Was Racism and Fundamentalism a Factor?
The Massacre at Qana
By OMAR BARGHOUTI
Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora condemned Israel's massacre in Qana today as a "heinous crime" and called Israeli leaders "war criminals." Reacting to an earlier atrocity, he wondered: "Is the value of human life in Lebanon less than that of the citizens of other countries?"[1] The answer, at least as far as Israel is concerned, is an unambiguous "yes!" Israel's latest bloodbath, which claimed the lives of dozens of children and women hiding from the relentless bombing in what they hoped was a secure basement in Qana, betrays not only Israel's criminal disregard for the value of Arab human life, a typical colonial attitude towards natives, but also its increasingly fundamentalist perception of Gentiles in general as lesser humans.
Israel apologists who will try to spin this new massacre as yet another "mistake" must expect their audience to have an awfully short memory or a very low IQ. Israel has explicitly indicated in the past few days that it may resort to such atrocious measures, especially since its armed forces have failed to achieve any tangible military gains after 19 days of rolling massacres and wanton destruction across Lebanon. Israeli minister of justice, Haim Ramon, issued a stern warning [2] only days ago that a large area in south Lebanon was regarded by his government effectively as a free-fire zone, advocating indiscriminate bombing of villages inside it to ease the so-far unsuccessful advance of the Israeli army. "These places are not villages. They are military bases in which Hizbollah are hiding and from which they are operating," he said, adding that, since Israel had ordered Lebanese civilians to leave the area, "All those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hizbollah."
Israel's biggest-selling paper, Yedioth Ahronoth, advocated [3] raising the threshold of Israel's response to Katyusha rockets: "In other words: a village from which rockets are fired at Israel will simply be destroyed by fire." It is worth noting that all available evidence points to the fact that no Katyusha was fired by the Lebanese resistance from Qana before the bombing.
Among Israel's staunch Zionist supporters in the West, the same "talking points" were parroted. Harvard academic Alan Dershowitz recently argued [4] that, "Hezbollah and Hamas militants [] are difficult to distinguish from those 'civilians' who recruit, finance, harbor and facilitate their terrorism. Nor can women and children always be counted as civilians, as some organizations do. Terrorists increasingly use women and teenagers to play important roles in their attacks." He concluded saying, "The Israeli army has given well-publicized notice to civilians to leave those areas of southern Lebanon that have been turned into war zones. Those who voluntarily remain behind have become complicit."
Thus the massacre in Qana.
Qana's name is associated with an earlier Israeli massacre. In 1996, during its military offensive codenamed "Grapes of Wrath," Israel's air force bombed a UN shelter in the village, slaying more than 100 civilians, mostly children, and inviting almost universal verbal condemnation but no real threats of sanctions or any other form of effective punitive measures from the international community. In the current Israeli war on Lebanon this is only the most recent episode in a series of smaller atrocities deliberately committed by the Israeli army against Lebanese civilians in an attempt to collectively "punish" them for the humiliating defeat its elite military units have so far experienced at the hands of the formidable Lebanese resistance, most noticeably in the legendary town of Bint Jbeil.
This intentional and coldly calculated Israeli policy of targeting innocent Lebanese civilians and civilian infrastructure stems from a time-honoured, but hardly ever successful, Israeli doctrine of applying intense "pressure" against a civilian population in order to compel them, in-turn, to pressure the resistance into submitting to Israeli dictates, thereby doing Israel's bidding by proxy. It has been consistently used against the Palestinians ever since the Nakba of 1948, and is still applied now in the ongoing barbaric offensive and hermetic siege against Gaza. Israel may have plagiarized this doctrine from the legacies of previous oppressors, but it has refined it to a degree that it no longer raises any moral qualms in most of Israeli society, where it is widely accepted by the public as a right, even a duty in the fight for Israel's "security."
Such blatant racism, which may have been frowned upon in the past by many Jewish-Israelis as a pathological anomaly, is now quite popular in the Israeli mainstream, including among lawmakers, academics, journalists and, of course, military leaders. While it has become normal to read scathing -- occasionally valid -- critiques of the hateful and chauvinistic discourse "inherent" in Islamic and even Christian brands of fundamentalism, Jewish fundamentalism, which is among the key factors informing current Israeli apartheid policies and laws, remains a taboo subject that is rarely discussed or debated in the West. It is rooted in a long tradition of fanatic, yet popular, fundamentalist interpretations of Halakhah, or Jewish law, propagated by influential rabbis and internalized by a widely acquiescent Israeli society, secular and religious sectors alike. Even before the creation of Israel, the core concept in this fundamentalist worldview was publicly espoused by Rabbi Abraham Yitzhak Kook, the first Ashkenazi chief rabbi of Palestine, who said, "The difference between a Jewish soul and the souls of non-Jews...is greater and deeper than the difference between a human soul and the souls of cattle."[5]
The late Israeli academic and human rights advocate, Israel Shahak, traced the roots of Israeli public justification for killing Palestinians, for instance, to similar readings of the tenets of Halakhah. While the murder of a Jew is considered a capital offence in Jewish law, the murder of a Gentile is treated quite differently. "A Jew who murders a Gentile," Shahak reveals, "is guilty only of a sin against the laws of heaven, not punishable by court." Indirectly, but intentionally, causing the death of a Gentile is "no sin at all." [6] A booklet published in 1973 by the Central Region Command of the Israeli army subscribes to this same doctrine. In it, the Command's Chief Chaplain writes:
"When our forces come across civilians during a war or in hot pursuit or in a raid, so long as there is no certainty that those civilians are incapable of harming our forces, then according to the Halakhah they may and even should be killed Under no circumstances should an Arab be trusted, even if he makes an impression of being civilized In war, when our forces storm the enemy, they are allowed and even enjoined by the Halakhah to kill even good civilians, that is, civilians who are ostensibly good. [7]
In 1996, the same year the first Qana massacre was committed, Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh, a leader of the powerful Lubavitch Hassidic sect, echoed the same principle, rhetorically asking, "If a Jew needs a liver, can he take the liver of an innocent non-Jew to save [the Jew]?," answering, "The Torah would probably permit that. Jewish life has an infinite value. There is something more holy and unique about Jewish life than about non-Jewish life." [8] Moreover, Ginsburgh coauthored a book defending the 1994 massacre of Muslim worshippers in Al-Ibrahimi mosque (Patriarchs' Cave) in Hebron, in which he argued that when a Jew kills a non-Jew the act does not constitute murder according to the Halakhah, adding that the killing of innocent Palestinians as an act of revenge is a Jewish virtue.
During the first months of the current Palestinian initfada, it was common for Israeli army spokespeople to justify killing Palestinian children throwing stones by saying that they "threatened human life." (B'Tselem Report) Not soldiers' lives, not Israeli lives, but human life. One cannot escape the implication that the alleged sources of the threat are not exactly eligible to be called human in the army's common diction.
In this context, it is entirely justified to see Israel's second massacre in Qana as the rule, not the exception.
This often ignored menace of Jewish fundamentalism needs to be addressed as seriously as other forms of fanatic religious thought which sows racial hatred, animosity and war mongering. While adhering to moral principles alone will certainly not bring any of Qana's murdered children back to life or compensate any bereaved parent or loved one anywhere, perhaps insisting on the equal worth of all human lives, regardless of ethnicity or religion, and rejecting racism from any source, including from sanctimonious former victims, can help diminish the chances of such ruthless crimes recurring in the future. Irrespective of the Holocaust, or precisely because of it, Israel should not be allowed to get away with its racist, at-will flaunting of international law and its state terrorism against defenseless civilians. It is time to go beyond mere condemnation to properly channel irrepressible grief and simmering anger into morally sound acts of intervention. Just as it worked against apartheid South Africa, a comprehensive regime of boycott against Israel is urgently called for. People of conscience everywhere share the responsibility of stopping this unrestrained behemoth before it scorches everything in its blind quest for hegemony and colonial control.
Comments
it's hard not to take a side when you have someone who think that civillians who were killed should have known, or shouldn't have been there, including a woman with his 1 week baby (born under the bombing)... anyway i plead guilty, but my point is also good for the Hezbollah, they have responsabilities and are also responsible for many deaths, but i don't think current Israel offensive will hurt Hezbollah, just hurting Lebanese and Lebanon, therefore hurting Israel... Hezbollah will always be there, if not, it will be someone else, it was someone else before Hezbollah.
Recognize the state of Israel
Recognize the state of Palestine
then i believe you've made a bigger step towards this region stability than bombing Lebanon, that's just my westerner opinion...
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Redneck Hillbilly's are one of a kind. Stick to sucking straw and playing the banjo.
To cop a page from abook... (Haha ... clever little pun in there!)
Why don't you respond to the contents of his posts? Hmmm?
That's all we do here in ol' New York City.
Well respected experts and those close to the ground over there have said that this was almost certainly a bit of both - a show of solidarity with the Palestinians after they re-occupied Gaza, and an opportunity to instigate a prisoner exchange.
Oh, a show of solidarity with the Palestinians for their indiscriminate rocket attacks that were launched from Gaza? Well isn't that special.
And how come the only place I've heard about it being some show of solidarity with the Palestinians is on this message board?
I see your point. Demanding the ouster of a democratically elected government official would be pretty outrageous put in a non-Middle Eastern context. Of course, it's not like we've never done that before. How many popularly elected leaders in Latin America did we have "removed" from power during the 20th century?
On the other hand, there are a few Republican members of the House and Senate that I wouldn't mind seeing removed from power...
Jsand keep up your beliefs that these actions are justified...b/c Im sticking to mine....keep telling yourself that these deaths will save future lives in the future...keep tellign yourself these deaths will bring peace to the region...keep telling yourself that these are appropriate actions....cause guess what they will do none of the above...hope I dont see you on this board complaining about future suicide bombers from Lebanon....but then again according to your thinking this offensive over-kill will rid the Middle East of terror....when I believe it has made things 100% worse...just like the American offensive in Iraq is giving America a clean name world-wide...I am willing to bet there will be more relgious fundamentalist nuts today than there was less than a month ago...a year ago...two years ago....an so forth....
haha, that explain a lot...
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Another Israeli Myth Exposed: There Were No Hezbollah Rockets In Qana
Meanwhile, northern Israeli residents say they have more chance of winning the lottery than getting hit by a Katyusha missile
Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | August 1 2006
There were no Hezbollah rockets and no Hezbollah militants in the village of Qana that was leveled by the Israelis on Sunday night, according to village residents and Red Cross workers stationed in the area. Another apologist fabrication to justify Israeli atrocities has been exposed as a total fraud.
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert claimed Sunday Hezbollah were, "hiding places for rockets inside the village and the village itself is a safe haven for those who launch rockets."
Israeli media mouthpieces and drooling Neo-Cons have repeatedly tried to portray Israel's rampant war crimes as a right to self-defense, even in light of mounting atrocities and the deliberate targeting of aid workers, ambulances, UN observers, and women and children who slept in their beds and never woke up.
"There were no Hezbollah rockets fired from Qana - this was the justification given by the Israelis for bombing the shelter and again carrying out a massive bombardment all that night long and well into the next day of that entire village," Dahr Jamail told the Alex Jones Show.
Jamail is a Christian Lebanese American independent journalist who has worked for the Guardian, the Independent, and the Sunday Herald.
"They claim that it was Hezbollah's fault, that they were forced to murder these innocent people because Hezbollah continues to fire rockets into Israel."
"I spoke with two residents at the scene of the bombing, two people who were nearby, who lived in the village and they said of course there were no Hezbollah rockets fired from this village because when Hezbollah does that all of the villagers clear out immediately because people are well aware that once those rockets are fired Israel is going to retaliate with a massive air strike on the entire area."
"So no rockets were fired according to the residents there."
Jamail also verified this contention by speaking to aid workers in the nearby city of Tyre.
"These claims were backed up not only by residents but when I talked to the Lebanese Red Cross they said the same thing - they said no when we go into these villages usually we can find evidence if there is any - we will find rocket launchers, we will find guns, we will even find some Hezbollah fighters," said Jamail.
"One of them who was actually the training manager of the Red Cross down there, he said there was 100 per cent no evidence - that city was clear - there was no evidence of any rockets fired from there whatsoever."
Jamail said that "without a doubt" Israel was intentionally targeting civilians, with a particular focus on medical workers and rescue workers.
He said that the policy was based on blood thirst and collective punishment with an overarching agenda to pull Iran and Syria into the mire so Israel can justify subsequent attacks on those countries.
For those still choosing to live in cloud cuckoo land and believe the fallacy of the 'right to self-defense' argument - consider the words of one resident of Kiryat Shmona, a town on the northern most border of Israel.
“I’M STAYING. [!!!!!!!] I have more chance of winning the lottery than being hit by a Katyusha [missile].[!!!!!!!] We are suffering too much from Hezbollah. They should get in there, finish the whole thing and get it done once and for all.”
More chance of winning the lottery than being hit by a Hezbollah missile. Compare that to the untold horror that has been inflicted on a nation of innocent people whose very day to day existence has been turned into simple question of survival.
Prison Planet.tv members can listen to the entire interview with Dahr Jamail by clicking here. Please consider becoming a subscriber by clicking here.
While I've never actually read from or visited the website you got this from, (prison planet is it?) from what I've heard about it it doesn't really seem like an objective source, or even a subjective source that strives for objectivity. It seems to have already been proven beyond a doubt that Qana was being used to launch rockets at Israel, so I don't really see what this adds to the discussion, except to show that some people will deny the truth that is staring them in the face so long as it serves their political theology.
Unlike the website which you have sourced material from for this particular thread title Dayan - 'Confederate Yankee'. This website would be hilarious if it wasn't so sick and twisted.
http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/
You crack me up Dayan!!
Now that is a blatent lie. I have never sourced material from that site. If this is the best you can do I'm really disappointed. I say something with content, and you come back and tell me I'm wrong because I quoted from something I never quoted from. Interesting though, that you don't actually refute my comment that this prison planet website is full of shit. Maybe cause you know that's blatently obvious, and you don't want to look stupid saying it.
A prisonplanet.com article posted in response........wheee, that was classic. Absolutely classic. Not much else to say after that. Just let the ridiculousness of it all speak for itself.
What do you think of the original link provided by the poster.....
I take it all back. I got you mixed up with your buddy jsand. Still, you certainly accepted everything that wacko website - ConfederateYankee - had to say. That's nothing to be proud of. And as for Prison Planet, i've never looked at the thing, and have certainly never quoted from it, so your comments with regards to that are a tad off target.
Again you falsely accuse me. I didn't even mention any of that conspiracy theory in any of my responses, so I'm not quite sure where you get off saying that I accepted everything on that website. Furthermore, I never said you used info from prison planet. I simply said that in your response to my post you attack me for saying that prison planet is a bogus site, but don't actually disagree with my assessment.
I said it's another perspective, another bit of information. Does it really matter where it comes from when people quote guys like Maddox?
The Massacre at Qana
By OMAR BARGHOUTI
Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora condemned Israel's massacre in Qana today as a "heinous crime" and called Israeli leaders "war criminals." Reacting to an earlier atrocity, he wondered: "Is the value of human life in Lebanon less than that of the citizens of other countries?"[1] The answer, at least as far as Israel is concerned, is an unambiguous "yes!" Israel's latest bloodbath, which claimed the lives of dozens of children and women hiding from the relentless bombing in what they hoped was a secure basement in Qana, betrays not only Israel's criminal disregard for the value of Arab human life, a typical colonial attitude towards natives, but also its increasingly fundamentalist perception of Gentiles in general as lesser humans.
Israel apologists who will try to spin this new massacre as yet another "mistake" must expect their audience to have an awfully short memory or a very low IQ. Israel has explicitly indicated in the past few days that it may resort to such atrocious measures, especially since its armed forces have failed to achieve any tangible military gains after 19 days of rolling massacres and wanton destruction across Lebanon. Israeli minister of justice, Haim Ramon, issued a stern warning [2] only days ago that a large area in south Lebanon was regarded by his government effectively as a free-fire zone, advocating indiscriminate bombing of villages inside it to ease the so-far unsuccessful advance of the Israeli army. "These places are not villages. They are military bases in which Hizbollah are hiding and from which they are operating," he said, adding that, since Israel had ordered Lebanese civilians to leave the area, "All those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hizbollah."
Israel's biggest-selling paper, Yedioth Ahronoth, advocated [3] raising the threshold of Israel's response to Katyusha rockets: "In other words: a village from which rockets are fired at Israel will simply be destroyed by fire." It is worth noting that all available evidence points to the fact that no Katyusha was fired by the Lebanese resistance from Qana before the bombing.
Among Israel's staunch Zionist supporters in the West, the same "talking points" were parroted. Harvard academic Alan Dershowitz recently argued [4] that, "Hezbollah and Hamas militants [] are difficult to distinguish from those 'civilians' who recruit, finance, harbor and facilitate their terrorism. Nor can women and children always be counted as civilians, as some organizations do. Terrorists increasingly use women and teenagers to play important roles in their attacks." He concluded saying, "The Israeli army has given well-publicized notice to civilians to leave those areas of southern Lebanon that have been turned into war zones. Those who voluntarily remain behind have become complicit."
Thus the massacre in Qana.
Qana's name is associated with an earlier Israeli massacre. In 1996, during its military offensive codenamed "Grapes of Wrath," Israel's air force bombed a UN shelter in the village, slaying more than 100 civilians, mostly children, and inviting almost universal verbal condemnation but no real threats of sanctions or any other form of effective punitive measures from the international community. In the current Israeli war on Lebanon this is only the most recent episode in a series of smaller atrocities deliberately committed by the Israeli army against Lebanese civilians in an attempt to collectively "punish" them for the humiliating defeat its elite military units have so far experienced at the hands of the formidable Lebanese resistance, most noticeably in the legendary town of Bint Jbeil.
This intentional and coldly calculated Israeli policy of targeting innocent Lebanese civilians and civilian infrastructure stems from a time-honoured, but hardly ever successful, Israeli doctrine of applying intense "pressure" against a civilian population in order to compel them, in-turn, to pressure the resistance into submitting to Israeli dictates, thereby doing Israel's bidding by proxy. It has been consistently used against the Palestinians ever since the Nakba of 1948, and is still applied now in the ongoing barbaric offensive and hermetic siege against Gaza. Israel may have plagiarized this doctrine from the legacies of previous oppressors, but it has refined it to a degree that it no longer raises any moral qualms in most of Israeli society, where it is widely accepted by the public as a right, even a duty in the fight for Israel's "security."
Such blatant racism, which may have been frowned upon in the past by many Jewish-Israelis as a pathological anomaly, is now quite popular in the Israeli mainstream, including among lawmakers, academics, journalists and, of course, military leaders. While it has become normal to read scathing -- occasionally valid -- critiques of the hateful and chauvinistic discourse "inherent" in Islamic and even Christian brands of fundamentalism, Jewish fundamentalism, which is among the key factors informing current Israeli apartheid policies and laws, remains a taboo subject that is rarely discussed or debated in the West. It is rooted in a long tradition of fanatic, yet popular, fundamentalist interpretations of Halakhah, or Jewish law, propagated by influential rabbis and internalized by a widely acquiescent Israeli society, secular and religious sectors alike. Even before the creation of Israel, the core concept in this fundamentalist worldview was publicly espoused by Rabbi Abraham Yitzhak Kook, the first Ashkenazi chief rabbi of Palestine, who said, "The difference between a Jewish soul and the souls of non-Jews...is greater and deeper than the difference between a human soul and the souls of cattle."[5]
The late Israeli academic and human rights advocate, Israel Shahak, traced the roots of Israeli public justification for killing Palestinians, for instance, to similar readings of the tenets of Halakhah. While the murder of a Jew is considered a capital offence in Jewish law, the murder of a Gentile is treated quite differently. "A Jew who murders a Gentile," Shahak reveals, "is guilty only of a sin against the laws of heaven, not punishable by court." Indirectly, but intentionally, causing the death of a Gentile is "no sin at all." [6] A booklet published in 1973 by the Central Region Command of the Israeli army subscribes to this same doctrine. In it, the Command's Chief Chaplain writes:
"When our forces come across civilians during a war or in hot pursuit or in a raid, so long as there is no certainty that those civilians are incapable of harming our forces, then according to the Halakhah they may and even should be killed Under no circumstances should an Arab be trusted, even if he makes an impression of being civilized In war, when our forces storm the enemy, they are allowed and even enjoined by the Halakhah to kill even good civilians, that is, civilians who are ostensibly good. [7]
In 1996, the same year the first Qana massacre was committed, Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh, a leader of the powerful Lubavitch Hassidic sect, echoed the same principle, rhetorically asking, "If a Jew needs a liver, can he take the liver of an innocent non-Jew to save [the Jew]?," answering, "The Torah would probably permit that. Jewish life has an infinite value. There is something more holy and unique about Jewish life than about non-Jewish life." [8] Moreover, Ginsburgh coauthored a book defending the 1994 massacre of Muslim worshippers in Al-Ibrahimi mosque (Patriarchs' Cave) in Hebron, in which he argued that when a Jew kills a non-Jew the act does not constitute murder according to the Halakhah, adding that the killing of innocent Palestinians as an act of revenge is a Jewish virtue.
During the first months of the current Palestinian initfada, it was common for Israeli army spokespeople to justify killing Palestinian children throwing stones by saying that they "threatened human life." (B'Tselem Report) Not soldiers' lives, not Israeli lives, but human life. One cannot escape the implication that the alleged sources of the threat are not exactly eligible to be called human in the army's common diction.
In this context, it is entirely justified to see Israel's second massacre in Qana as the rule, not the exception.
This often ignored menace of Jewish fundamentalism needs to be addressed as seriously as other forms of fanatic religious thought which sows racial hatred, animosity and war mongering. While adhering to moral principles alone will certainly not bring any of Qana's murdered children back to life or compensate any bereaved parent or loved one anywhere, perhaps insisting on the equal worth of all human lives, regardless of ethnicity or religion, and rejecting racism from any source, including from sanctimonious former victims, can help diminish the chances of such ruthless crimes recurring in the future. Irrespective of the Holocaust, or precisely because of it, Israel should not be allowed to get away with its racist, at-will flaunting of international law and its state terrorism against defenseless civilians. It is time to go beyond mere condemnation to properly channel irrepressible grief and simmering anger into morally sound acts of intervention. Just as it worked against apartheid South Africa, a comprehensive regime of boycott against Israel is urgently called for. People of conscience everywhere share the responsibility of stopping this unrestrained behemoth before it scorches everything in its blind quest for hegemony and colonial control.
http://www.fromisraeltolebanon.org/
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14273.htm
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/quana_01_19_03.htm
So its staged even though the Israelis have admitted to it?
That's actually possible ... My gut feeling is that this wasn't staged, but it IS possible that Israel got duped.