why did they attack us?

Commy

The US has over 150 military bases around the world, including one near Mecca, Islam's holiest site.

Commy

oops

sponger

slightofjeff wrote:

You ever see that Family Guy where the suicide bomber gets to heaven, and his virgins are actually male geeks watching Star Trek and playing Dungeons and Dragons and shit? Man, that was hilarious.

lmao. no, haven't seen that one. it would probably be too good to be true if you remembered which episode that was so I could look it up on familyguynow.com.

sponger

Commy wrote:

The US has over 150 military bases around the world, including one near Mecca, Islam's holiest site.

Sounds like a perfectly good reason to blow myself up in a crowded area.

slightofjeff

sponger wrote:

lmao. no, haven't seen that one. it would probably be too good to be true if you remembered which episode that was so I could look it up on familyguynow.com.

Actually, I think it was the one that was on Sunday. It's the one where Meg nearly dies in the flash flood, and Peter becomes all overprotective of her. It's called "Peter's Daughter."

The "virgin" thing was one of those weird 10-second segues, so you might have to watch the whole episode to find it.

Commy

sponger wrote:

Sounds like a perfectly good reason to blow myself up in a crowded area.

Dropping bombs into a crowded area or blowing yourself up in one....the only difference is the US is instigating this conflict.

It can all stop, if the US chooses.

Coming back to life

Commy wrote:

Dropping bombs into a crowded area or blowing yourself up in one....the only difference is the US is instigating this conflict.

It can all stop, if the US chooses.

The war tactics of the US etc leave alot to be desired. Carpet bombings etc on the off-chance that Saddam might be one of the many people in the crowd, that's not how I would fight wars. I wouldn't say it's up there with targeting civilians. Inexcusable, but not the same. Don't agree it would stop if the US wanted it to. Plenty of attacks in France, what was the last war in an Islamic country they took part in?

Commy

Coming back to life wrote:

The war tactics of the US etc leave alot to be desired. Carpet bombings etc on the off-chance that Saddam might be one of the many people in the crowd, that's not how I would fight wars. I wouldn't say it's up there with targeting civilians. Inexcusable, but not the same. Don't agree it would stop if the US wanted it to. Plenty of attacks in France, what was the last war in an Islamic country they took part in?

I think we need to realize that the US spends more on war than any 10 countries. They are very good at it.

And that war is a terrible human endeavor. Part of the war strategy is to demoralize the enemy. ie deliberatly target civilians to properly subdue them. Viet Nam has plenty of examples of that.

The most modern technological military force on the planet went after one of the poorest civilian centers on the planet and lost. But what they took from that was interesting, especially in re to Iraq.

After having dropped twice the tonnage of bombs on Indochina than the US dropped in all of WWII the CIA suggested they go after the "will of the regime as a target structure." They literally wanted to bomb an idea-that of collectivism in this case. They couldn't understand why the NLF had such high moral, not realizing the NLF was using ideology as a weapon instead of violence-not until it was too late.

Because the north vietnamese would go into villages, treat them with respect, set up an electoral process, and give the people of the village controll over the resources that they had labored to extract. That's a freedom rarely seen in human history. Controlling ones actions. And these people were willing to die for that.

Unfortunately for the people of Iraq, the US now understands the importance of grassroots movements, and have probably been combating this ideology since '92 or before. In Vietnam, under the CIA's Phoenix program, 20,000 civilians were murdered and tortured-family and friends of guerilla leaders, dissidents and so on...and they still were unable to overcome the resistance. With Iraq they've had 15 years of sanctions, 2 invasions, and who knows how many billions of dollars to deal with this kind of situation.

And you know what is really striking, what really stands out..is that Iraq is still resisting. After millions were starved to death, bombed out of their homes, tortured and imprisoned, after entire cities were subjected to the US military machine, after all that brutality they are stilll resisting. If that isn't a test of the human spirit I don't know what is.

The US targets civilians. THey are literally going after "the will of the regime". They find out about a guerillla leader -insurgent-and if they can't get to him they kill his family. That's war.

Byrnzie

jlew24asu wrote:

our support for Israel and because we have troops in saudi arabia...

Amongst other things, yes.

Byrnzie

mammasan wrote:

They hate us because that is what they are taught from the moment of conception. Many of the oppressive corrupt regimes in Muslim countries, ie. Saudi Arabia, spend a lot of money building religious schools to indoctrinate the poor young citizens of said country into this militant extremist form of Islam. They also teach these young men that the West, specially the US, is the reason for all their misery. This is the only way these governments can take the focus off of them and the way they treat their own people like shit. It also doesn't help that we back and support many of these governments. So in short the teachings of these government backed religious school plus our own actions is the reason why we are hated.

You have a very vivid imagination. Your post is nothing but misguided conjecture - bordering on racism - although I'd be interested to hear you elaborate on the part about 'our own actions'.

jlew24asu

Byrnzie wrote:

You have a very vivid imagination. Your post is nothing but misguided conjecture - bordering on racism - although I'd be interested to hear you elaborate on the part about 'our own actions'.

his post was 110 percent accurate. we would love to hear why you think he is wrong.

Coming back to life

jlew24asu wrote:

his post was 110 percent accurate. we would love to hear why you think he is wrong.

And racist

Byrnzie

jlew24asu wrote:

his post was 110 percent accurate. we would love to hear why you think he is wrong.

I'd like to hear why he thinks he's right. How about he provide some evidence to support his statements? Or would you then accuse him of engaging in a cut and paste frenzy?

mammasan

Byrnzie wrote:

You have a very vivid imagination. Your post is nothing but misguided conjecture - bordering on racism - although I'd be interested to hear you elaborate on the part about 'our own actions'.

So you dispute the point that the Muslims who practice this radical militant form of Islam do not teach there children to hate Christians or Jews or even other Muslims who they consider infidels. I'm not stating that all Muslims believe or do as such but those that are willing to fly planes into a building or strap on a explosive laden vest and blow themselves up in the middle of a crowded bus or marketplace certainly do. To take the lives of innocent people is to hate them to the highest degree and that is what these certain Muslims do. Just look at the Madrahs in muslims countries, ie Saudi Arabia, and how they indoctrinate young men even small boys into hating anything that is not Muslim. It is you who is dillusional if you believe otherwise. Of course our actions in the region certainly do not help the situation and it could be argued that our actions can be the cause of such hatred being spread. Of course you wouldn't agree with this because they fanatics can do no wrong. It is all the US' fault isn't it. They are not responsible for their actions but we are. Also thanks for calling me a racist. It means a lot coming from you.

mammasan

Coming back to life wrote:

And racist

Thank you. Maybe next time you can offer up some argument to disprove what I said instead of just playing Byrnzie's parrot.

even flow?

Why they attacked?

Don't arm people to fight your battles and then turn your back on them. Revenge is pretty sweet in most circles.

Joe2TheRevenge

i know it's "logical" and "makes sense" to just listen to the "exact reason" Bin Laden decided to attack, but i believe Bush

i think the terrorists really do hate Liberty and Freedom. They only like Nuculer weapons and that's it.

i heard it was a bunch of Saudi Arabians that planned it all. Which of course means we should attack Iraq and Iranian citizens. It's all about doing things that make sense people. Seriously.

Joe2TheRevenge

Byrnzie wrote:

You have a very vivid imagination. Your post is nothing but misguided conjecture - bordering on racism - although I'd be interested to hear you elaborate on the part about 'our own actions'.

Actually he is partially right.

i actually saw a news report about a textbook being used in an extremist muslim school that had math problems such as: "if you kill 4 american infidels, and your friend kills 6 american infidels, how many american infidels have you killed?"

BUT, even if blind hatred is being taught, it still doesn't change the fact that Bin Laden had ACTUAL political reasons for planning the attacks.

Blind hatred or not, 99.999999% of those children will never get a chance to kill an american. The attacks were performed by a rich guy who disagreed with our foreign policy.

Coming back to life

mammasan wrote:

Thank you. Maybe next time you can offer up some argument to disprove what I said instead of just playing Byrnzie's parrot.

I said I would like to know why he's racist - not he's not.

mammasan

Joe2TheRevenge wrote:

Actually he is partially right.

i actually saw a news report about a textbook being used in an extremist muslim school that had math problems such as: "if you kill 4 american infidels, and your friend kills 6 american infidels, how many american infidels have you killed?"

BUT, even if blind hatred is being taught, it still doesn't change the fact that Bin Laden had ACTUAL political reasons for planning the attacks.

Blind hatred or not, 99.999999% of those children will never get a chance to kill an american. The attacks were performed by a rich guy who disagreed with our foreign policy.

Thank you but you have to understand in Byrnzie's world everything is the US' fault. We are responsible for every single atrosity since the inception of this country.

As you stated our foreign policy is definitely part of the root cause but people like Bin Laden have taken the opportunity to spread his brand of Islam.