No, they've done that all by themselves. I'd drop that friend pretty quick if it was an ongoing thing.
I don't believe in gay marriage only because I think the government should get out of the marriage game. Government mingled church and state here and should leave marriage as an issue entirely up to churches. A marriage certificate would be purely ceremonial and have no legal value. The state should provide union certificates to any group of individuals wanting one and willing to take on the legal rights and responsibilities that would come with the certificate.
We have a winner!
Or - at least I should say - this is a line of thinking I agree with.
"it is more like pantheism, there is a impersonal force the void which is the ultimate."
When I hear "the ultimate" and "impersonal force", that is perfectly aligned to how I perceive God. Now you might be talking that they do not have the typical Christian conception of God.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Damn that religious right!! Why is it I have yet to meet someone from the religious right?
Do you live under a rock?
No, in all seriousness, I know and see members of the "religious right" every day. It's not fair to lump them into a group, it's just a short, and concise thing to type.
As far as I know, Buddhists believe that the existence of God is irrelevent. If you believe in God, fine; if you're an athiest, also good. If you think that praying to God will provide you any benefit, or that worshiping a God will garner you favor in the afterlife, then you're not a Buddhist.
I will just say for the record, that the sense of "light" in enlightenment, is the same light people meet with in the tunnel--the essence of life and all understanding.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
No, in all seriousness, I know and see members of the "religious right" every day. It's not fair to lump them into a group, it's just a short, and concise thing to type.
Do you live next to a church?
No I dont live under a rock. I live in a very heavily populated city, stuck between NYC and philly. I meet TONS of people almost daily in both my lines of work, and Ive yet to meet any truly extremist religious right zealots. Unless they simply arent running around 24/7 bitching about the sinners like some like to think.................................
I will just say for the record, that the sense of "light" in enlightenment, is the same light people meet with in the tunnel--the essence of life and all understanding.
No I dont live under a rock. I live in a very heavily populated city, stuck between NYC and philly. I meet TONS of people almost daily in both my lines of work, and Ive yet to meet any truly extremist religious right zealots. Unless they simply arent running around 24/7 bitching about the sinners like some like to think.................................
The smiley face was my way of saying "I'm just fucking with you..."
But to answer your question, I can point to one side of my family and say LIBERAL!, and I can point to the other side and say CONSERVATIVE/RELIGIOUS right.
Also - of my associates - I know most people's religious and political leanings...
So I assure you, this is not a group that I am conjuring up for entertainment purposes on this board.
From someone who is usually sarcastic and wrote Bushleaguer and participated in VFC. What else would you have expected. If you are disappointed in a joke then stay away from comedy.
Understood without the explanation. No worries. I was simply responding.
But to answer your question, I can point to one side of my family and say LIBERAL!, and I can point to the other side and say CONSERVATIVE/RELIGIOUS right.
Also - of my associates - I know most people's religious and political leanings...
So I assure you, this is not a group that I am conjuring up for entertainment purposes on this board.
I didnt mean to imply you were. ? Simply that at least in my little corner of the world, this religious right doesnt hold a presence. Im sure they exist, as do wacko liberals, neo nazi's, etc. There's no way to stop the "pushing of religious ideals" upon us but to push your ideals just as hard. In a democracy, majority rules tho.
I will just say for the record, that the sense of "light" in enlightenment, is the same light people meet with in the tunnel--the essence of life and all understanding.
To that, I would say it depends on whether or not the words "light" and "enlightenment" have the same phonetic root in the language spoken by the original Buddhists as it does in English.
Also, there are a number of denominations of Buddhism. Many Buddhists believe that Nirvana is not an afterlife at all, but is instead oblivion - non-existence.
"Having described the Buddhist objections to the overspecified inherently-existent God, it should be pointed out that Buddhism is not purposely atheistic, and certainly does not deny the existence of a God in the sense of that in which 'we live and move and have our being' "
"Omniscient - Yes, all that ever was, ever will be, ever could have been, and ever might still be - are included within God. Their actualisation as experiences depends upon the choices made by sentient beings.
Omnipotent. -Yes, in the sense that all potentials are present. The driving power to make anything that could logically occur actually occur ('breathe fire into the equations') is available.
Compassionate Yes, the samsaric universe, for all its apparent faults, provides a path for deluded primordial mind to achieve enlightenment. Thus from the viewpoint of an Awakened Being, the universe is a perfect ground for advanced beings to rescue other migrators and bring them to enlightenment.
Judgemental - No, all beings will eventually be saved (Bodhisatva vow)
God within time or outside time? Neither - time operates within God - She is pregnant with possibility, and time consists of a series of instances of actualisation of those possibilities."
My understanding is that it's not that buddhists don't believe in God, it's that they don't believe in quibbling over something that can't be proven. They are for personal understanding of life and enlightenment through one's self, experientially. That is how one decides--for themselves, on their own path.
Jesus is in the buddist and hindu scriptures. and islam; jewish; etc. the basic teachings are that your being goes on even when your body dies. heaven is being without the restraints of the human body. different religions use different words. any more than that is mans words.
Im sure they exist, as do wacko liberals, neo nazi's, etc. There's no way to stop the "pushing of religious ideals" upon us but to push your ideals just as hard. In a democracy, majority rules tho.
So here's my question - to those of you who choose to make the "gay issue" a hot button issue during election cycles and a matter of turning a group of people into a sort of "lower" society.
Why is this "sin" so much worse than the others and worthy of your venom?
Why don't we restrict free speech on people who use the lord's name in vain?
Why don't we ostracize people who decide to labor on Sundays?
Why don't try to limit the rights of adulterers?
Why aren't people who covet other people's properties hearded off and forced to lives as kind of a second society?
Because the Church and State are, and should remain, separate.
"it is more like pantheism, there is a impersonal force the void which is the ultimate."
When I hear "the ultimate" and "impersonal force", that is perfectly aligned to how I perceive God. Now you might be talking that they do not have the typical Christian conception of God.
ok.
that's all fine.
however, to everyone else and their ideas of 'a god' a buddhist does not believe in such. raindog gave an excellent explanation how they view it all and others' beliefs...far more tolerant an attitude...however, in the general sense of what the average joe would constitute as 'god' or a belief in god, the buddhists don't follow such. that's all i was getting at - and for simplicity's sake, far more clearer to say they do not believe in god(s). so to use them as an example of worshiping a 'different god'...or 'many gods'...a very poor example, nothing more. speak of wiccans, hindus, muslims, etc....those all have belief in 'a god' or 'gods/goddesses'.
If you believe it is wrong for you, that is one thing. If you think you can make the judgment for God and say it's universally wrong for everyone, well then what about the plank in your own eye? Doesn't if affect your own vision? How do you know what you see with that there plank in your eye is actually real? How do you know it's not part of your lack as a human that is misinterpreting?
Is it universally wrong for a man to have sex with his 4 year old daughter?
Do you have a plank in your eye for thinking that is wrong?
How about his 18 year old daughter that claims to be in love with him?
They aren't hurting anyone.
Where do you draw the line on moral issues?
I happen to draw my moral guidelines from a place you don't.
Am I wrong for that?
Who's intolerant now?
"Do Buddhists believe in God?
Unlike other major religions, Buddhism doesn’t have the notion of a supreme God who created the world and who looks over it. However, the Buddha taught that there are six realms of existence – gods, humans, jealous gods, animals, ghosts and hell-beings. "
Because the Church and State are, and should remain, separate.
Yes... but we all know that is kind of a pipe dream - right?
We're all somewhat agreeable on this.
Still waiting for an answer to the original question from someone who steadfastly believes that homosexuals should NOT have the same civil rights as heterosexuals.
Jesus is in the buddist and hindu scriptures. and islam; jewish; etc. the basic teachings are that your being goes on even when your body dies. heaven is being without the restraints of the human body. different religions use different words. any more than that is mans words.
many religions view jesus as a revered prophet. that really has no bearing on one's belief in a 'god' per se.
"Do Buddhists believe in God?
Unlike other major religions, Buddhism doesn’t have the notion of a supreme God who created the world and who looks over it. However, the Buddha taught that there are six realms of existence – gods, humans, jealous gods, animals, ghosts and hell-beings. "
How many athiest on this board believe in other realms, particularly the one with the hell-beings?
These levels are also understood by those who raise their consciousness and travel other dimensions.
wow, i stand corrected then, i have NEVER heard such, even amongst anything i have ever read about buddhists, or the few buddhists i do know. still, i will say it does not fit in with the notion of most people's beliefs in gods...and that sounds more like paganism, wiccans and hinuism for example, which i never affliated buddhism with before.
Is it universally wrong for a man to have sex with his 4 year old daughter?
Do you have a plank in your eye for thinking that is wrong?
How about his 18 year old daughter that claims to be in love with him?
They aren't hurting anyone.
Where do you draw the line on moral issues?
I happen to draw my moral guidelines from a place you don't.
Am I wrong for that?
Who's intolerant now?
That's a lot of questions. I don't hear your answer, though. How do you know where I draw my moral guidelines?
I merely wonder how you factor in the plank in your own eye while judging others. I thought Jesus told us we cannot judge others, and that only God can truly judge.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
That's a lot of questions. I don't hear your answer, though. How do you know where I draw my moral guidelines?
I merely wonder how you factor in the plank in your own eye while judging others. I thought Jesus told us we cannot judge others, and that only God can truly judge.
It gets messy because Jesus was fully prepared to allow governments to make the civil rules we all have to live by. By those laws we judge others by their actions.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
ok.
that's all fine.
however, to everyone else and their ideas of 'a god' a buddhist does not believe in such. raindog gave an excellent explanation how they view it all and others' beliefs...far more tolerant an attitude...however, in the general sense of what the average joe would constitute as 'god' or a belief in god, the buddhists don't follow such. that's all i was getting at - and for simplicity's sake, far more clearer to say they do not believe in god(s). so to use them as an example of worshiping a 'different god'...or 'many gods'...a very poor example, nothing more. speak of wiccans, hindus, muslims, etc....those all have belief in 'a god' or 'gods/goddesses'.
It's not clearer if we are distorting the facts--note the later quote I used, where buddha did mention gods and jealous gods. Maybe some people have had enlightened experiences, experienced the same gods, and developed them into the Christian God--afterall we know he's known to be jealous.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
It gets messy because Jesus was fully prepared to allow governments to make the civil rules we all have to live by. By those laws we judge others by their actions.
i like this.
it is humanity, and let's face it...men..who messed this all up over time. men had all the power on the churches and then decided what should be or should not...and yes, religion and state were intermingled for WAY too long.
angelica - see my post above..saw your oither post and retracted then. we all learn.
i wish someone who was actually buddhist was around to share, b/c i seriously have never read/heard such before. interesting.
Jesus is in the buddist and hindu scriptures. and islam; jewish; etc. the basic teachings are that your being goes on even when your body dies. heaven is being without the restraints of the human body. different religions use different words. any more than that is mans words.
You're right about Jesus being in the Islamic and Jewish texts - but I don't think he's mentioned in any traditional Buddhist or Hindu scriptures. I've read passages by more modern Buddhists regarding the many similarities between the teachings of Jesus and Buddha - some going to far as to call Jesus a Bodhivista (enlightened one) - but not in what could be called "scripture." For one, Buddha predated Jesus by about 500 years. As for Hindu - well, that's going back even further.
Also, any positive mentions of Jesus by Buddhists (and I've encountered many - lotsa respect amongst the Buddhists) are still tempered with the belief that he is not the son of God.
It gets messy because Jesus was fully prepared to allow governments to make the civil rules we all have to live by. By those laws we judge others by their actions.
Can you quote what Jesus specifically said?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
"Having described the Buddhist objections to the overspecified inherently-existent God, it should be pointed out that Buddhism is not purposely atheistic, and certainly does not deny the existence of a God in the sense of that in which 'we live and move and have our being' "
"Omniscient - Yes, all that ever was, ever will be, ever could have been, and ever might still be - are included within God. Their actualisation as experiences depends upon the choices made by sentient beings.
Omnipotent. -Yes, in the sense that all potentials are present. The driving power to make anything that could logically occur actually occur ('breathe fire into the equations') is available.
Compassionate Yes, the samsaric universe, for all its apparent faults, provides a path for deluded primordial mind to achieve enlightenment. Thus from the viewpoint of an Awakened Being, the universe is a perfect ground for advanced beings to rescue other migrators and bring them to enlightenment.
Judgemental - No, all beings will eventually be saved (Bodhisatva vow)
God within time or outside time? Neither - time operates within God - She is pregnant with possibility, and time consists of a series of instances of actualisation of those possibilities."
another great post angelica; but i'd like to add a twist. where does hell come in? the worst thing that could happen to me when i die is to be reborn onto this earth. and be reborn again and again until i reach the enlightenment. earth has all the reported attributes given to hell. if you want to see fire and brimstone; visit a volcano. hunger; pain; disease; etc; is all around us. i agree that all beings will be saved. but i also believe they will continue to be reborn onto earth until they get it right. thus; they remain in hell (earth) until redemption.
another great post angelica; but i'd like to add a twist. where does hell come in? the worst thing that could happen to me when i die is to be reborn onto this earth. and be reborn again and again until i reach the enlightenment. earth has all the reported attributes given to hell. if you want to see fire and brimstone; visit a volcano. hunger; pain; disease; etc; is all around us. i agree that all beings will be saved. but i also believe they will continue to be reborn onto earth until they get it right. thus; they remain in hell (earth) until redemption.
Thank you.
I personally know God does not throw us into a hell. Our hell is our own judgment of our own deeds, when we become fully aware of the exact ramifications of our actions. I basically agree with your assessment of hell on earth--I've lived a bunch of it. About being reborn, I believe that concept is in human terms, and that beyond our human experience time does not exist. I personally believe I am God, you are God, each of us is God, incarnated in separation as everthing all at once--beyond time. Being unified with God, to me, is far, far, far beyond hell and we can take steps towards God or towards hell in each moment.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
"Do Buddhists believe in God?
Unlike other major religions, Buddhism doesn’t have the notion of a supreme God who created the world and who looks over it. However, the Buddha taught that there are six realms of existence – gods, humans, jealous gods, animals, ghosts and hell-beings. "
How many athiest on this board believe in other realms, particularly the one with the hell-beings?
These levels are also understood by those who raise their consciousness and travel other dimensions.
Most of this is coming from the Buddhist belief in different realms of existence (different dimensions, say) and the idea that entities inhabit these realms. Gods are more like "gods" (note the quotes) and are not regarded as creative beings. When Siddhartha Gautama (the OB - Original Buddha **wikka/skritch/wikka**) sought enlightenment through the Hindu belief system, he found it to be unhealthy and ultimately damaging (he spent many years as an ascetic) to follow these beings regarded as Gods. After attaining enlightenment, he never denied their existence; but he did deny them the place of Superior Beings - instead tending to regard them as supernatural frauds.
And, again, there are different denominations of Buddhism - some take a more supernatural path, others do not. For all of them, though, the existence of a Creator Being (the Alpha and Omega) is irrelevent - whether you believe in one or not.
Comments
We have a winner!
Or - at least I should say - this is a line of thinking I agree with.
http://www.letusreason.org/Buddh1.htm
"it is more like pantheism, there is a impersonal force the void which is the ultimate."
When I hear "the ultimate" and "impersonal force", that is perfectly aligned to how I perceive God. Now you might be talking that they do not have the typical Christian conception of God.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Do you live under a rock?
No, in all seriousness, I know and see members of the "religious right" every day. It's not fair to lump them into a group, it's just a short, and concise thing to type.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Do you live next to a church?
No I dont live under a rock. I live in a very heavily populated city, stuck between NYC and philly. I meet TONS of people almost daily in both my lines of work, and Ive yet to meet any truly extremist religious right zealots. Unless they simply arent running around 24/7 bitching about the sinners like some like to think.................................
www.myspace.com/jensvad
ohhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
ohhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
www.myspace.com/jensvad
The smiley face was my way of saying "I'm just fucking with you..."
Also - of my associates - I know most people's religious and political leanings...
So I assure you, this is not a group that I am conjuring up for entertainment purposes on this board.
Understood without the explanation. No worries.
I didnt mean to imply you were. ? Simply that at least in my little corner of the world, this religious right doesnt hold a presence. Im sure they exist, as do wacko liberals, neo nazi's, etc. There's no way to stop the "pushing of religious ideals" upon us but to push your ideals just as hard. In a democracy, majority rules tho.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Also, there are a number of denominations of Buddhism. Many Buddhists believe that Nirvana is not an afterlife at all, but is instead oblivion - non-existence.
"Omniscient - Yes, all that ever was, ever will be, ever could have been, and ever might still be - are included within God. Their actualisation as experiences depends upon the choices made by sentient beings.
Omnipotent. -Yes, in the sense that all potentials are present. The driving power to make anything that could logically occur actually occur ('breathe fire into the equations') is available.
Compassionate Yes, the samsaric universe, for all its apparent faults, provides a path for deluded primordial mind to achieve enlightenment. Thus from the viewpoint of an Awakened Being, the universe is a perfect ground for advanced beings to rescue other migrators and bring them to enlightenment.
Judgemental - No, all beings will eventually be saved (Bodhisatva vow)
God within time or outside time? Neither - time operates within God - She is pregnant with possibility, and time consists of a series of instances of actualisation of those possibilities."
http://www.geocities.com/scimah/God.htm
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Jesus is in the buddist and hindu scriptures. and islam; jewish; etc. the basic teachings are that your being goes on even when your body dies. heaven is being without the restraints of the human body. different religions use different words. any more than that is mans words.
www.amnesty.org.uk
There are extremists on all sides...
Because the Church and State are, and should remain, separate.
ok.
that's all fine.
however, to everyone else and their ideas of 'a god' a buddhist does not believe in such. raindog gave an excellent explanation how they view it all and others' beliefs...far more tolerant an attitude...however, in the general sense of what the average joe would constitute as 'god' or a belief in god, the buddhists don't follow such. that's all i was getting at - and for simplicity's sake, far more clearer to say they do not believe in god(s). so to use them as an example of worshiping a 'different god'...or 'many gods'...a very poor example, nothing more. speak of wiccans, hindus, muslims, etc....those all have belief in 'a god' or 'gods/goddesses'.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Is it universally wrong for a man to have sex with his 4 year old daughter?
Do you have a plank in your eye for thinking that is wrong?
How about his 18 year old daughter that claims to be in love with him?
They aren't hurting anyone.
Where do you draw the line on moral issues?
I happen to draw my moral guidelines from a place you don't.
Am I wrong for that?
Who's intolerant now?
<a href="http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com">themudpuppy.com</a>
Unlike other major religions, Buddhism doesn’t have the notion of a supreme God who created the world and who looks over it. However, the Buddha taught that there are six realms of existence – gods, humans, jealous gods, animals, ghosts and hell-beings. "
http://buddhism.about.com/od/courses/a/WhatBuddhism.htm
How many athiest on this board believe in other realms, particularly the one with the hell-beings?
These levels are also understood by those who raise their consciousness and travel other dimensions.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Yes... but we all know that is kind of a pipe dream - right?
We're all somewhat agreeable on this.
Still waiting for an answer to the original question from someone who steadfastly believes that homosexuals should NOT have the same civil rights as heterosexuals.
many religions view jesus as a revered prophet. that really has no bearing on one's belief in a 'god' per se.
wow, i stand corrected then, i have NEVER heard such, even amongst anything i have ever read about buddhists, or the few buddhists i do know. still, i will say it does not fit in with the notion of most people's beliefs in gods...and that sounds more like paganism, wiccans and hinuism for example, which i never affliated buddhism with before.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I merely wonder how you factor in the plank in your own eye while judging others. I thought Jesus told us we cannot judge others, and that only God can truly judge.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i like this.
it is humanity, and let's face it...men..who messed this all up over time. men had all the power on the churches and then decided what should be or should not...and yes, religion and state were intermingled for WAY too long.
angelica - see my post above..saw your oither post and retracted then. we all learn.
i wish someone who was actually buddhist was around to share, b/c i seriously have never read/heard such before. interesting.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Also, any positive mentions of Jesus by Buddhists (and I've encountered many - lotsa respect amongst the Buddhists) are still tempered with the belief that he is not the son of God.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
another great post angelica; but i'd like to add a twist. where does hell come in? the worst thing that could happen to me when i die is to be reborn onto this earth. and be reborn again and again until i reach the enlightenment. earth has all the reported attributes given to hell. if you want to see fire and brimstone; visit a volcano. hunger; pain; disease; etc; is all around us. i agree that all beings will be saved. but i also believe they will continue to be reborn onto earth until they get it right. thus; they remain in hell (earth) until redemption.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I personally know God does not throw us into a hell. Our hell is our own judgment of our own deeds, when we become fully aware of the exact ramifications of our actions. I basically agree with your assessment of hell on earth--I've lived a bunch of it. About being reborn, I believe that concept is in human terms, and that beyond our human experience time does not exist. I personally believe I am God, you are God, each of us is God, incarnated in separation as everthing all at once--beyond time. Being unified with God, to me, is far, far, far beyond hell and we can take steps towards God or towards hell in each moment.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
And, again, there are different denominations of Buddhism - some take a more supernatural path, others do not. For all of them, though, the existence of a Creator Being (the Alpha and Omega) is irrelevent - whether you believe in one or not.