The "sin" of homosexuality
NakedClown
Posts: 545
I have an honest question - for the hardline right on this board. The question was inspired by the following quote in another hotly-debated religious thred:
Originally Posted by know1
My church had a sermon last week on being accepting of homosexuals. The point was that sin is no worse than anyone of our sins and that the church has failed by alienating them.
So here's my question - to those of you who choose to make the "gay issue" a hot button issue during election cycles and a matter of turning a group of people into a sort of "lower" society.
Why is this "sin" so much worse than the others and worthy of your venom?
Why don't we restrict free speech on people who use the lord's name in vain?
Why don't we ostracize people who decide to labor on Sundays?
Why don't try to limit the rights of adulterers?
Why aren't people who covet other people's properties hearded off and forced to lives as kind of a second society?
Please - only real responses - no "stupid fucking liberals" comments or anything like that...
EDIT: OVER on Page 4, we've had lots of good discussion so far - but are still waiting for an answer to the original question from someone who steadfastly believes that homosexuals should NOT have the same civil rights as heterosexuals.
Originally Posted by know1
My church had a sermon last week on being accepting of homosexuals. The point was that sin is no worse than anyone of our sins and that the church has failed by alienating them.
So here's my question - to those of you who choose to make the "gay issue" a hot button issue during election cycles and a matter of turning a group of people into a sort of "lower" society.
Why is this "sin" so much worse than the others and worthy of your venom?
Why don't we restrict free speech on people who use the lord's name in vain?
Why don't we ostracize people who decide to labor on Sundays?
Why don't try to limit the rights of adulterers?
Why aren't people who covet other people's properties hearded off and forced to lives as kind of a second society?
Please - only real responses - no "stupid fucking liberals" comments or anything like that...
EDIT: OVER on Page 4, we've had lots of good discussion so far - but are still waiting for an answer to the original question from someone who steadfastly believes that homosexuals should NOT have the same civil rights as heterosexuals.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
And "way to go, know1's church!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
"Animal sexual behavior takes many different forms, even within the same species. Researchers have observed masturbation, promiscuity, monogamy, necrophilia, sex between species, sexual arousal from objects or places, coercive sex and a range of other practices among animals. Some have drawn parallels with sexual orientation (heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality and situational sexual behaviour) in humans. Related studies have noted diversity in sexed bodies and gendered behaviour, such as intersex and transgender animals.
The study of animal sexuality is a rapidly developing field. It used to be believed that only humans and a handful of species performed sexual acts other than for procreation, and that animals sexuality was instinctive and a simple response to the "right" stimulation (sight, scent). Current understanding is that many species believed monogamous have now been proven to be promiscuous or opportunistic in nature, a wide range of species appear to both masturbate and to use objects as tools to help them do so, in many species animals try to give and get sexual stimulation with others where procreation is not the aim, and homosexual behavior has now been documented in over 450 species."
I think alot of it comes from years of it being assumed to be true that homosexuality wasn't "natural" because it didnt occur in the animal kingdom. Apparently mother nature produces homosexuals as well. Imagine what science presented as "Fact" being found to be incorrect years later. Who'da thunk? And many people's only interaction with homosexual's is viewing or reading about the deviant ones that make headlines. Much like anything else, all stereotypes come from some shred of actual fact, and then get exaggerated and overdone.
I personally could care less if someone's gay. I dont wanna look at it, and I dont wanna accidentally walk in on it, but if gay sex is what you crave, have at it.
I dont consider it a sin, since Im not really religious, but I think its gross. Therefore, I dont do it. Its that simple.
Also, I think you're assuming that the average joe can be lumped into a group much like the condemnation you give to those who lump gays into the group "sinners". Im sure for the most part, the average Joe takes much the same approach I have. Do what you want, I dont care, I dont need to know, I dont wanna know. For the most part, the people in extreme groups, the media, and those in Congress are making waves on the issue. As long as his life isnt directly affected by it, im sure the average joe could give two shits if two gays want to get married, have sex, etc.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Unfortunately - THIS is the problem... because they ARE influencing people and getting them riled up over what is really a non-issue.
EDIT: And it's influencing them to vote a certain way through scare tactics...
"Animal sexual behavior takes many different forms, even within the same species. Researchers have observed masturbation, promiscuity, monogamy, necrophilia, sex between species, sexual arousal from objects or places, coercive sex and a range of other practices among animals. Some have drawn parallels with sexual orientation (heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality and situational sexual behaviour) in humans. Related studies have noted diversity in sexed bodies and gendered behaviour, such as intersex and transgender animals.
The study of animal sexuality is a rapidly developing field. It used to be believed that only humans and a handful of species performed sexual acts other than for procreation, and that animals sexuality was instinctive and a simple response to the "right" stimulation (sight, scent). Current understanding is that many species believed monogamous have now been proven to be promiscuous or opportunistic in nature, a wide range of species appear to both masturbate and to use objects as tools to help them do so, in many species animals try to give and get sexual stimulation with others where procreation is not the aim, and homosexual behavior has now been documented in over 450 species."
great info!
i've heard as much, but always second-hand...and i take no issue with homosexuality at all, seems just as valid a choice as any, so i never really bothered to delve into all that. thanks.
in regards to the religious.....i cannot possibly answer. perhaps simply b/c it is taught to be wrong?
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Which brings us back to the original question and the great quote from KNOW1:
Why is this sin - why is is this "wrong" - so much worse and despicable than all of the other "wrongs" discussed in the bible?
I agree with all your comments. I've been saying this for awhile, but the fact that I still believe that homosexuality is wrong puts me into the category of intolerant. Even thought I believe that we should treat them the same as we do anyone else, the fact that I think it's wrong makes me intolerant somehow. Hate the sin, Love the sinner. We don't have to accept the sin in somebody's life to accept them as a person. Most of the time we get that wrong. We also have a really hard time putting too much emphasis on the "major" sins (read visible and/or accepted sins). The church has a lot of work to do to revamp its image.
Here's a quote from my favorite author (Erwin McManus):
"The greatest enemy to the movement of Jesus Christ is Christianity."
http://www.erwinmcmanus.com/
<a href="http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com">themudpuppy.com</a>
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
is it really said to be?
i think simply it gets a lot of press.
i mean, i don't know. sure one is not supposed to take the lord's name in vain...that was/is always a biggie with my mother
oh and yes, surfer brings up a good point. i've heard that as well. to be homosexual is not the sin, only to act on it. :rolleyes:
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Where you go right is where so many people go wrong. It's encouraging to read your post. Because it doesn't sound like you'd be one of the people spewing hateful rhetoric - you think it's wrong just like you think adultery and thievery are wrong. And that's fine.
You are only "intolerant" if you try to hold someone down because of their sin. Whether it be through force. Or legislature. Or whatever other means...
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Note...........who said there was no such thing as a conservative who was for gay rights and gay marriage, pro-gun, anti most abortions, less government, anti-free ride, and a pearl jam fan all in one??????
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Brilliant.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Which is the problem! Why does this get more press?
Answer: because it's a hot button issue that people feel strongly about.
But why do they feel more strongly about this than other sins?
For example:
Because someone is homosexual - and homosexuality is a sin - it is OK to restrict their rights as humans (whether that be adoption, civil unions, sharing benefits, etc.).
(This is relevant because the central argument that people who fight against it typically fall back on their religious beliefs and the "founding of this country on christian ideals" as their reason for doing so).
So why don't we take all Buddhists - because having another god is a sin - and limit their civil rights and restrict what they can do as members of this society?
You can't do one and not the other without being a hypocrite in a way.
b) It mainly comes from what is written in Leviticus, yeah? Well, here are some other gems from that book:
You cant eat crab, lobster, clams, oysters, or anything else in the ocean that doesnt "swim".
You cant touch your wife while she is menstrating. I mean TOUCH.
You cant eat pork.
You cant trim your beard.
You cant have tattoos.
The book also says that bats are a type of bird so Im not gonna take what it says as anything like the "truth".
If you are ever around a Bible, read Leviticus - it's fucked up.
i don't see this so much as a sin issue. it's more a "look at me" issue. if i sit on my couch and smoke a joint; nobody cares. i'm left alone. if i go out in public and make statements that i'm a pot smoker and held 3 jobs and retired at 40; and tried to convince others to smoke pot; it would cause a problem. when people just live their lives; they obtain the most valuable right; the right to be left alone.
Yes, but would you (or this theoretical person) try to turn an adulterer into a "lower" member of our society through public action?
thought i addressed this: b/c we as a society have grown more tolerant of it.
and in no way did i ever insinuate it is not hypocritial. we all are for certain issues, for me, this is not one of em.
btw - buddhists don't have a god, so poor example. go talk to hindus instead.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
a) No - I do not.
b) so why don't the people who hate and try to hold down homosexuals ostracize these groups???
There is no answer to this question. Not one that could be taken seriously.
If people don't make any noise, nothing ever happens.
And now that authorities have that "no need to knock" rule - well, perhaps I'm being hyperbolic, but it might not be long before you lose that right to be left alone.
this is why seperation of church and state is essential. you are completely hitting the nail on the head, it don't make sense! they are only pushing the issue because they know it disgusts the conservatives, its an easier target than finding people who curse and punish them.
~You laugh because I am different, I laugh because you are all the fucking same ~
~Education is the most powerfull weapon you can use to change the world - Nelson Mandela~
~chaka boom chak -Tom Waits~
But do they not worship idols that would be considered sacrilegous to christians?
No need to defend yourself - I wasn't calling you or anyone else out. Posting questions that I'd like to see people answer.
I don't believe in gay marriage only because I think the government should get out of the marriage game. Government mingled church and state here and should leave marriage as an issue entirely up to churches. And if a church wants to marry homosexuals I have no problem with that. A marriage certificate would be purely ceremonial and have no legal value. The state should provide union certificates to any group of individuals wanting one and willing to take on the legal rights and responsibilities that would come with the certificate.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i love how we have all these seperate, but related threads recently...all that do seem to focus on this issue. it IS so important!
actually, no, they don't believe in a god, period.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Well said. I have a cousin who is gay. Flaming gay. And he seems to talk about being gay every time I see him. Especially when he first came out. All he talked about is being gay. How hard it is, acceptance, etc. I dont present my sexuality for others awareness, why must so many gays? Homosexuality seems to be being force fed onto society just as much as there is resistance to it. There's a reason our homes have doors. Close em up, and live your life, everything would be much better.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
I would argue that the "religious right" makes this more of an issue than homosexuals do.
I have many gay friends and relatives who could don't care about the right to get married. They wouldn't mind "civil unions" - but they are not banging doors down or threatening others to achieve it - and certainly not to force a church to let them get "married"...
But the strong religious right makes people believe that it is a "threat" - which has a strong ripple effect on society (press, elections, etc.)...
Damn that religious right!! Why is it I have yet to meet someone from the religious right?
www.myspace.com/jensvad