This is true on every side for everyone everywhere. Maybe in a world of absolutes "the antithesis to injustice is justice, not just a different injustice", but this is not something we're bound to witness.
All truths are witnessed. That's what makes them truths.
Now I know I can't prove that the value "save human lives" is relatively more just than "save my money", but I'll think about how to do that.
That's easy to prove. Without "human life" there is no "my money". The value of a prerequisite always exceeds the value of the corresponding condition.
Regardless, proving that the value of "Bob's life" has a greater value than "Joe's money", however, is simply a false proposition. Bob's life and Joe's money are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
On the subject of funding, don't you think that by having a uhc you'll make the health related costs go down? :
1- the government accepts to pay a limited amount for a given service, for everyone. Let's say for example 20$/exam.
2- the vast majority (the middle class I guess) will give up their insurance and use the uhc and will have to stick to that 20$ limit when choosing the dr they want to see.
3- given the high demand for 20$ exam more and more dr/hospitals will propose this fare thus lowering the general cost.
A sane UHC system will make certain prices go down in the near future, yes. But prices, over the long term, are not based on who is paying for services. Prices are dependent on supply and demand. UHC increases demand and at the same time often negatively affects supply. So, in the long term, you're going to increase costs. When this happens, UHC will have to set prices, like in your example above. Setting prices doesn't necessarily set costs. It simply masks who is paying them. Your eye exam may only be priced at $20 via UHC, but you may end up suffering the cost of no one being left to give you an eye exam or someone else will be made to suffer the $x deficit over and above $20.
First off let me start by saying that every man, woman and child should have health coverage. It is a shame that in this day and age with all the money this country has that there are hard working families out there that do not have health benefits. With that being said the last thing I want to see is our inept government handling healthcare. Look at the mess they made of the prescription drug plan, look at the way veteran's healthcare is handled, look at the amount of mismanagment in welfare programs. If our government where to undertake the task of providing universal healthcare to all of our citizens it would end up becoming a monsterous fiscal black hole. Before we even begin to tackle the task of universal healthcare we need to change the way Washington does business.
FUCKING - A.
Post of the year.
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First off let me start by saying that every man, woman and child should have health coverage. It is a shame that in this day and age with all the money this country has that there are hard working families out there that do not have health benefits. With that being said the last thing I want to see is our inept government handling healthcare. Look at the mess they made of the prescription drug plan, look at the way veteran's healthcare is handled, look at the amount of mismanagment in welfare programs. If our government where to undertake the task of providing universal healthcare to all of our citizens it would end up becoming a monsterous fiscal black hole. Before we even begin to tackle the task of universal healthcare we need to change the way Washington does business.
The government is inept because it is corrupt and the people aren't holding it accountable. UHC could work if people took an active role in civics, became aware of all that is going on in their democratic government and held their elected officials accountable when they weren't doing their jobs. If the government is inept then replace them with people who will do the job to a more satisfactory extent....if those guys become corrupt, they get the boot, too...just like any job a person holds. If the government officials want to keep their job then they better start doing it right.
Of course this isn't what's happening now. People remain more than willing and happy to excuse acts of neglect, corruption and pandering to special interests as long as it's their team who is in power. The people need to start coming together and seeing it as our duty to make sure the government is doing right by it's citizens and stop settling for watered down crap over straight crap.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The government is inept because it is corrupt and the people aren't holding it accountable. UHC could work if people took an active role in civics, became aware of all that is going on in their democratic government and held their elected officials accountable when they weren't doing their jobs. If the government is inept then replace them with people who will do the job to a more satisfactory extent....if those guys become corrupt, they get the boot, too...just like any job a person holds. If the government officials want to keep their job then they better start doing it right.
Of course this isn't what's happening now. People remain more than willing and happy to excuse acts of neglect, corruption and pandering to special interests as long as it's their team who is in power. The people need to start coming together and seeing it as our duty to make sure the government is doing right by it's citizens and stop settling for watered down crap over straight crap.
I agree with you, but until this is actually achieved Universal Healthcare will not work in this country.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I agree with you, but until this is actually achieved Universal Healthcare will not work in this country.
Yes, it's up to us.
And from the looks of things...we would have to start changing our lives and our priorities drastically. We have to be active in making this country great not just saying how we have all these things going on in our own lives and don't have time for it. That's a cop out. If you want things to be better you don't just sit back, complain and expect other people to do it for you...you have your part to play, too.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
How could we possibly pay for a comprehensive universal healthcare plan? The average two child family in Quebec pays close to $5000 per year in taxes just to cover their share of the bill, which is much more than anybody pays for comprehensive private health insurance in America.
WHAT???
When I left my job Cobra for me and my son (A FAMILY OF TWO) was $1100 /month.
Now we pay $804/month.
I would be more than happy to pay $5000 instead.
Apparently NY state has some of the highest per person health care in the country.
When I left my job Cobra for me and my son (A FAMILY OF TWO) was $1100 /month.
Now we pay $804/month.
I would be more than happy to pay $5000 instead.
Apparently NY state has some of the highest per person health care in the country.
I would support state by state single payer coverage. In South Dakota, one can get private health insurance for a family of four for $200-$300 a month. If we had federal universal healthcare, I living in South Dakota would have to pay much more than that in taxes to support the free riders in places like New York. I think we need to deal with the poverty levels, which arent directly connected to high cost of health insurance or the fact that some dont have it, before we talk about a federal universal health plan. State's arent similar enough to do it. I live within an hour of Minn and Iowa and there are few similarities in our state's economies.
06/24/1998 SD
10/12/2000 KS
06/13/2003 IA
06/15/2003 ND
06/16/2003 Mn
06/21/2003 WI
10/05/2004 MO
10/08/2004 FL
09/08/2005 MB
09/09/2005 ON
05/17/2006 IL
05/19/2006 MI
07/02/2006 CO
08/05/2007 Lolla
06/14/2008 B'roo
Kill Fascists.... or at least make them realize what they are.
I would support state by state single payer coverage. In South Dakota, one can get private health insurance for a family of four for $200-$300 a month. If we had federal universal healthcare, I living in South Dakota would have to pay much more than that in taxes to support the free riders in places like New York. I think we need to deal with the poverty levels, which arent directly connected to high cost of health insurance or the fact that some dont have it, before we talk about a federal universal health plan. State's arent similar enough to do it. I live within an hour of Minn and Iowa and there are few similarities in our state's economies.
Free riders?
What are free riders? People that don't make enough $ to pay for their children to have health care?
Your $ already pays for medicaid coverage. Working poor, working class and the middle class (which is slowly dwindling...most who think they are middle class really aren't. They are fooling themselves...) cannot afford to pay the exorbitant price of health care.
Health care and day care compose about 80% of my income. GO FIGURE. This system needs to be overhauled and soon. But all those who think they are worried about "free riders" instead of the corporate and governmental corruption that is robbing us all blind....well once those people start realizing what is happening...once their blind eyes start seeing...it will DEFINITELY be too late.
its examples like this why nadar is a fucking moron. taxing stock transactions is the worst idea in history. do that and watch how fast people stop trading stocks here.
you think ppl would stop trading stocks over less than 1%??? i wouldn't think so, but it's just my opinion.
another bonehead thing to do. these countries and systems can not and should not be compared. we are 10 times larger. canada's population is smaller then california. the system in America can definitely use some changes no doubt about it
ah, that sounds a little bit defeatist, what happened to 'YES WE CAN!!!!!!!' ???
what kind of system or candidate's health care plan do you like and support?
# Why doesn’t the United States have universal health care as a right of citizenship? The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee access to health care as a right of citizenship. 28 industrialized nations have single payer universal health care systems, while 1 (Germany) has a multipayer universal health care system like President Clinton proposed for the United States.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
# Why doesn’t the United States have universal health care as a right of citizenship? The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee access to health care as a right of citizenship. 28 industrialized nations have single payer universal health care systems, while 1 (Germany) has a multipayer universal health care system like President Clinton proposed for the United States.
I'm curious about the above. The fact that so many doctors now support UHC is a very big deal. The AMA and medical professionals in general have stood in the way of UHC ever since it was first attempted by the federal government in the early part of the 20th century.
Since so many providers now support UHC and so many individuals wish to be a part of the system, I can't help but wonder what you all are waiting for. Why don't you just form a 501(c)3 (non-profit), enroll providers and start accepting equal or progressive premiums from individuals to provide for every enrolled person's healthcare? What's the point in attempting to convince those of us who don't see a reason to be a part of that system? Why aren't you all simply signing up providers and patients and providing healthcare?
Why doesn’t the United States have universal health care as a right of citizenship? The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee access to health care as a right of citizenship.
It's no coincidence that the US has one of the highest (some say the highest) unintended pregnancy rates in the industrialized world. 49% of pregnancies are unintended, and there is a huge, increasing disparity based on income. Those who complain about people trying to get a free ride should consider the costs of not providing healthcare to everyone - like the creation of many more people who need a "free ride". This is just one of the many examples of how universal healthcare would allow people to take more preventative measures.
It's no coincidence that the US has one of the highest (some say the highest) unintended pregnancy rates in the industrialized world. 49% of pregnancies are unintended, and there is a hug, increasing disparity based on income. Those who complain about people trying to get a free ride should consider the costs of not providing healthcare to everyone - like the creation of many more people who need a "free ride". This is just one of the many examples of how universal healthcare would allow people to take more preventative measures.
What does health insurance have to do with knocking up a chick? I don't think you need an HMO ID card to tap/not tap some ass.
How could we possibly pay for a comprehensive universal healthcare plan? The average two child family in Quebec pays close to $5000 per year in taxes just to cover their share of the bill, which is much more than anybody pays for comprehensive private health insurance in America.
I have a 15 page paper due thursday on the subject for my Public Admin course. I am suppose to figure out how to make it work without increasing taxes too much. Any help would be appreciated.
All the liturature ive found seems to sidestep the issue of how to pay for it all.
We could tax things we don't like-either that or cut the military spending, the "defense" budget. THe US already accounts for over 50% of the entire world's military spending.
But, should you choose not to cut into the 'defense' budget, you could tax things like pollution, or stock market transactions, to pay for a universal health care plan. Trillions change hands in the stock market every day-a .01% tax would be noticable, as far as spending goes, but would make very little impact on the stock market trading. ANd we could all have health care.
Why are companies making profit on human lives? What do we tell our kids when we can't afford to make them better? And what kind of system is that?
It's no coincidence that the US has one of the highest (some say the highest) unintended pregnancy rates in the industrialized world. 49% of pregnancies are unintended, and there is a hug, increasing disparity based on income. Those who complain about people trying to get a free ride should consider the costs of not providing healthcare to everyone - like the creation of many more people who need a "free ride". This is just one of the many examples of how universal healthcare would allow people to take more preventative measures.
Everyone should have a "free ride". Especially in the US.
Everyone should have a "free ride". Especially in the US.
WTF???
You recognize that for someone to have a "free ride", someone else has to provide that, right??? And if someone has to provide it, that someone is not getting a "free ride".
In other words, it's not possible for everyone to have a "free ride".
You recognize that for someone to have a "free ride", someone else has to provide that, right??? And if someone has to provide it, that someone is not getting a "free ride".
In other words, it's not possible for everyone to have a "free ride".
Your definition of 'free ride' is different than mine.
do you have a job? do you pay taxes? im just curious
I made a company $12 million/year for 2 years. Before that I made the same company $3 million a year, in a different capacity. As it stands I no longer pay taxes.
I made a company $12 million/year for 2 years. Before that I made the same company $3 million a year, in a different capacity. As it stands I no longer pay taxes.
you made a company? lol so you are a multimillionaire? how do you not pay taxes? you must make thousands on capital gains?
regardless, you dont pay taxes, but you want others to pay for your healthcare even though you can afford any doctor you want? I knew you were selfish but thats off the charts.
In a country as wealthy as this one...no one should go without basic healthcare.
In a country as "Christian" as this one... the concept of working together to take care of the most basic needs of others... should not be so hard to wrap our heads around.
There are so many incredibly rich people in this country....And over 40 million Americans (over 10 million children!) without basic healthcare. It's a travesty. Plain and simple it's horrendous. And it's horrendous that my 82 year old uncle who is a veteran and worked hard his entire life...is still working because his medications... after veterans benefits and medicare... still run him over $700/ month.
This is the American dream, huh? While other sit back and scheme on the backs of the working class and make billions.
Whatever...all of you that think the current system works so well for you...I hope you never run into any hard times.
you made a company? lol so you are a multimillionaire? how do you not pay taxes? you must make thousands on capital gains?
regardless, you dont pay taxes, but you want others to pay for your healthcare even though you can afford any doctor you want? I knew you were selfish but thats off the charts.
I made a company profit. and yes it was millions.
This has nothing to do with me anyway. And that's typical, to focus on the individual when the majority is being discussed.
This has nothing to do with me anyway. And that's typical, to focus on the individual when the majority is being discussed.
you don't find this selfish? you are a multimillionaire but you want others to pay for your healthcare? while you pay ZERO into the system. tell me, what the fuck makes you so special?
not having to pay to save your life while a society has the resources to provide that free of charge, in regards to health care anyway.
Do you understand where those resources came from to begin with??? In other words, if everyone is to have a "free ride", there would be no resources to begin with.
This is what drives me crazy about this mindset. It's like eating an apple, burning down the apple tree, and then demanding free apples....
Do you understand where those resources came from to begin with??? In other words, if everyone is to have a "free ride", there would be no resources to begin with.
This is what drives me crazy about this mindset. It's like eating an apple, burning down the apple tree, and then demanding free apples....
no, in the US its like the gov't taking over an apple field from a neighbor and then charging the hungry citizens to eat, while an elite few make a profit.
you don't find this selfish? you are a multimillionaire but you want others to pay for your healthcare? while you pay ZERO into the system. tell me, what the fuck makes you so special?
no no. I am not a millionaire. far from it.
I did not mean to imply that. and I am benefiting from tax dollars atm.
In a country as wealthy as this one...no one should go without basic healthcare.
In a country as "Christian" as this one... the concept of working together to take care of the most basic needs of others... should not be so hard to wrap our heads around.
There are so many incredibly rich people in this country....And over 40 million Americans (over 10 million children!) without basic healthcare. It's a travesty. Plain and simple it's horrendous. And it's horrendous that my 82 year old uncle who is a veteran and worked hard his entire life...is still working because his medications... after veterans benefits and medicare... still run him over $700/ month.
This is the American dream, huh? While other sit back and scheme on the backs of the working class and make billions.
Whatever...all of you that think the current system works so well for you...I hope you never run into any hard times.
Good Luck.
While "darwin's rollin over in his coffin
[and] the fittest are surviving much less often"
Comments
All truths are witnessed. That's what makes them truths.
That's easy to prove. Without "human life" there is no "my money". The value of a prerequisite always exceeds the value of the corresponding condition.
Regardless, proving that the value of "Bob's life" has a greater value than "Joe's money", however, is simply a false proposition. Bob's life and Joe's money are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
A sane UHC system will make certain prices go down in the near future, yes. But prices, over the long term, are not based on who is paying for services. Prices are dependent on supply and demand. UHC increases demand and at the same time often negatively affects supply. So, in the long term, you're going to increase costs. When this happens, UHC will have to set prices, like in your example above. Setting prices doesn't necessarily set costs. It simply masks who is paying them. Your eye exam may only be priced at $20 via UHC, but you may end up suffering the cost of no one being left to give you an eye exam or someone else will be made to suffer the $x deficit over and above $20.
FUCKING - A.
Post of the year.
High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
Low Traffic CIO MIW
Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
The government is inept because it is corrupt and the people aren't holding it accountable. UHC could work if people took an active role in civics, became aware of all that is going on in their democratic government and held their elected officials accountable when they weren't doing their jobs. If the government is inept then replace them with people who will do the job to a more satisfactory extent....if those guys become corrupt, they get the boot, too...just like any job a person holds. If the government officials want to keep their job then they better start doing it right.
Of course this isn't what's happening now. People remain more than willing and happy to excuse acts of neglect, corruption and pandering to special interests as long as it's their team who is in power. The people need to start coming together and seeing it as our duty to make sure the government is doing right by it's citizens and stop settling for watered down crap over straight crap.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I agree with you, but until this is actually achieved Universal Healthcare will not work in this country.
Yes, it's up to us.
And from the looks of things...we would have to start changing our lives and our priorities drastically. We have to be active in making this country great not just saying how we have all these things going on in our own lives and don't have time for it. That's a cop out. If you want things to be better you don't just sit back, complain and expect other people to do it for you...you have your part to play, too.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
WHAT???
When I left my job Cobra for me and my son (A FAMILY OF TWO) was $1100 /month.
Now we pay $804/month.
I would be more than happy to pay $5000 instead.
Apparently NY state has some of the highest per person health care in the country.
I would support state by state single payer coverage. In South Dakota, one can get private health insurance for a family of four for $200-$300 a month. If we had federal universal healthcare, I living in South Dakota would have to pay much more than that in taxes to support the free riders in places like New York. I think we need to deal with the poverty levels, which arent directly connected to high cost of health insurance or the fact that some dont have it, before we talk about a federal universal health plan. State's arent similar enough to do it. I live within an hour of Minn and Iowa and there are few similarities in our state's economies.
10/12/2000 KS
06/13/2003 IA
06/15/2003 ND
06/16/2003 Mn
06/21/2003 WI
10/05/2004 MO
10/08/2004 FL
09/08/2005 MB
09/09/2005 ON
05/17/2006 IL
05/19/2006 MI
07/02/2006 CO
08/05/2007 Lolla
06/14/2008 B'roo
Kill Fascists.... or at least make them realize what they are.
Free riders?
What are free riders? People that don't make enough $ to pay for their children to have health care?
Your $ already pays for medicaid coverage. Working poor, working class and the middle class (which is slowly dwindling...most who think they are middle class really aren't. They are fooling themselves...) cannot afford to pay the exorbitant price of health care.
Health care and day care compose about 80% of my income. GO FIGURE. This system needs to be overhauled and soon. But all those who think they are worried about "free riders" instead of the corporate and governmental corruption that is robbing us all blind....well once those people start realizing what is happening...once their blind eyes start seeing...it will DEFINITELY be too late.
you think ppl would stop trading stocks over less than 1%??? i wouldn't think so, but it's just my opinion.
ah, that sounds a little bit defeatist, what happened to 'YES WE CAN!!!!!!!' ???
what kind of system or candidate's health care plan do you like and support?
some good reading
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0813-03.htm
Universal Health Plan is Endorsed
Thousands of doctors back proposal in Journal of the American Medical Association
http://cthealth.server101.com/the_case_for_universal_health_care_in_the_united_states.htm
The Case For Single Payer, Universal Health Care For The United States
# Why doesn’t the United States have universal health care as a right of citizenship? The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee access to health care as a right of citizenship. 28 industrialized nations have single payer universal health care systems, while 1 (Germany) has a multipayer universal health care system like President Clinton proposed for the United States.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I'm curious about the above. The fact that so many doctors now support UHC is a very big deal. The AMA and medical professionals in general have stood in the way of UHC ever since it was first attempted by the federal government in the early part of the 20th century.
Since so many providers now support UHC and so many individuals wish to be a part of the system, I can't help but wonder what you all are waiting for. Why don't you just form a 501(c)3 (non-profit), enroll providers and start accepting equal or progressive premiums from individuals to provide for every enrolled person's healthcare? What's the point in attempting to convince those of us who don't see a reason to be a part of that system? Why aren't you all simply signing up providers and patients and providing healthcare?
It's no coincidence that the US has one of the highest (some say the highest) unintended pregnancy rates in the industrialized world. 49% of pregnancies are unintended, and there is a huge, increasing disparity based on income. Those who complain about people trying to get a free ride should consider the costs of not providing healthcare to everyone - like the creation of many more people who need a "free ride". This is just one of the many examples of how universal healthcare would allow people to take more preventative measures.
What does health insurance have to do with knocking up a chick? I don't think you need an HMO ID card to tap/not tap some ass.
But, should you choose not to cut into the 'defense' budget, you could tax things like pollution, or stock market transactions, to pay for a universal health care plan. Trillions change hands in the stock market every day-a .01% tax would be noticable, as far as spending goes, but would make very little impact on the stock market trading. ANd we could all have health care.
Why are companies making profit on human lives? What do we tell our kids when we can't afford to make them better? And what kind of system is that?
WTF???
You recognize that for someone to have a "free ride", someone else has to provide that, right??? And if someone has to provide it, that someone is not getting a "free ride".
In other words, it's not possible for everyone to have a "free ride".
What's your definition?
do you have a job? do you pay taxes? im just curious
you made a company? lol so you are a multimillionaire? how do you not pay taxes? you must make thousands on capital gains?
regardless, you dont pay taxes, but you want others to pay for your healthcare even though you can afford any doctor you want? I knew you were selfish but thats off the charts.
In a country as "Christian" as this one... the concept of working together to take care of the most basic needs of others... should not be so hard to wrap our heads around.
There are so many incredibly rich people in this country....And over 40 million Americans (over 10 million children!) without basic healthcare. It's a travesty. Plain and simple it's horrendous. And it's horrendous that my 82 year old uncle who is a veteran and worked hard his entire life...is still working because his medications... after veterans benefits and medicare... still run him over $700/ month.
This is the American dream, huh? While other sit back and scheme on the backs of the working class and make billions.
Whatever...all of you that think the current system works so well for you...I hope you never run into any hard times.
Good Luck.
I made a company profit. and yes it was millions.
This has nothing to do with me anyway. And that's typical, to focus on the individual when the majority is being discussed.
you don't find this selfish? you are a multimillionaire but you want others to pay for your healthcare? while you pay ZERO into the system. tell me, what the fuck makes you so special?
Do you understand where those resources came from to begin with??? In other words, if everyone is to have a "free ride", there would be no resources to begin with.
This is what drives me crazy about this mindset. It's like eating an apple, burning down the apple tree, and then demanding free apples....
I did not mean to imply that. and I am benefiting from tax dollars atm.
For those using the term "free ride" how much of the population do you believe would be like that?
Honestly.
And those people are already on medicaid and welfare, most likely
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
While "darwin's rollin over in his coffin
[and] the fittest are surviving much less often"
its great to see common sense prevail.