I agree that a VP candidate should not be taken lightly. I was just pointing out that for many people what was shown to us by each candidate was nothing new, nothing to really base a decision on.
I both agree and disagree. Looking at all sides on this. The subtlety is in "for many". For many there was nothing new and nothing to base a decision on.
Possibly though, for partial Palin folks, this was a victory. Up until this point she has not handled herself well at all. She showed up and pulled it off.
Decisions have been made on less. Just pointing out that there will be folks living the life fandango on her performance last night.
Sorry mammasan, don't mean to be a pest, just looking at this from a wide angle lens.
I both agree and disagree. Looking at all sides on this. The subtlety is in "for many". For many there was nothing new and nothing to base a decision on.
Possibly though, for partial Palin folks, this was a victory. Up until this point she has not handled herself well at all. She showed up and pulled it off.
Decisions have been made on less. Just pointing out that there will be folks living the life fandango on her performance last night.
Sorry mammasan, don't mean to be a pest, just looking at this from a wide angle lens.
Please you are not being pest. Yes Palin definitely did sure up those in the base who where doubtful, but let's be a honest even if she completely bombed the conservative base was not going to turn tail and vote Obama/Biden. My belief is that the truly undecided voter, the one's who still really have no idea which way they will go, will not be swayed by either candidates performance. Neither candidate really hit that home run.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Here is a good article by the Christian Science Monitor, probably ons of the more un-baised news sources, on the debate last night. I think the article hits the nail right on the head.
Please you are not being pest. Yes Palin definitely did sure up those in the base who where doubtful, but let's be a honest even if she completely bombed the conservative base was not going to turn tail and vote Obama/Biden. My belief is that the truly undecided voter, the one's who still really have no idea which way they will go, will not be swayed by either candidates performance. Neither candidate really hit that home run.
Yes I hear ya and fully agree with this.
I think what I am actually doing is preparing myself in case these two actually get in to that white house ... <sigh> ... Thanks mammasan, I always respect your views. : >
I think what I am actually doing is preparing myself in case these two actually get in to that white house ... <sigh> ... Thanks mammasan, I always respect your views. : >
As much as I don't agree with Obama and his politics, I try to be as neutral as possible since I am not voting for either Obama or McCain, I believe that McCain/Palin would be a bit worse for this country. Palin truly does scare me simply because I can see the similarities between her and the Bush administration. I would rather have a president who I don't agree with much than one who is going to continue plowing over the Constitution.
I respect yours as well. It is refreshing to be able to discuss a topic with someone. Come from different angles and different opinions and still keep it civil and interesting. These types of discussions have become such a rarity on this board. Thank you.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
The SNL skit on this will probably be the moderator asking a question and Palin saying "Let me talk about something else. I want to talk about taxes!" And smiling.
She did basically what I thought she would. She had lots of talking points memorized and she knows how to change a topic and go into something she feels sort of comfortable with. The moderator should have forced her to answer those, but of course she probably was extra gentle because of the book thing.
No train wrecks. I didn't think we'd see one.
What does she mean by "The surge works"? To me, this is a weird way of expressing herself, assuming she actually knows what the surge was/is.
San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]
Actually I posted a thread with a link that fact checks some of those statements, the clean coal and Obama meeting with dictators, have been proven false. I'm not saying that Biden didn't stretch the truth because he did but if you are going to support Palin and least be aware that not all she said was not true.
i found biden to be good at answering her critiques ... it was interesting how she would accuse obama of voting a certain way and biden would just say mccain voted the same way ... she never responded to biden's accusations of mccain at all ...
my objective opinion is that he won the debate based on a format that basically doesn't allow anyone to win or lose big ... but she did what she had to do based on her relative experience and knowledge ...
I pulled this from the CBC website..and it was at this point in the debate where i changed the channel.........
(She didn't always answer questions, but turned that into a point of pride, saying she may not be answering the way Biden or the moderator wanted to hear, but that "I'm going to talk straight to the American people.")
how is exceeding the worst expectations possible make her do well...what a joke....duping the american public
Clearly, you must've had very high expectations for her. Remember the question is based on your prior expectations and whether she met them. I know you don't agree with her politically, but I'm not asking about that... it's more of a style question than substance.... and this is based on expectations.
Personally, I thought she'd hold her own... but, I was impressed by how she answered questions and honestly dodged questions. I think she did a good job relative to what I thought she would do. My score is a 4 out of 5.
Clearly, you must've had very high expectations for her. Remember the question is based on your prior expectations and whether she met them. I know you don't agree with her politically, but I'm not asking about that... it's more of a style question than substance.... and this is based on expectations.
Personally, I thought she'd hold her own... but, I was impressed by how she answered questions and honestly dodged questions. I think she did a good job relative to what I thought she would do. My score is a 4 out of 5.
but dont you feel cheated? how is dodging questions good for anyone.....and besides the point this was hardly a debate, more like a television ad.
As much as I don't agree with Obama and his politics, I try to be as neutral as possible since I am not voting for either Obama or McCain, I believe that McCain/Palin would be a bit worse for this country. Palin truly does scare me simply because I can see the similarities between her and the Bush administration. I would rather have a president who I don't agree with much than one who is going to continue plowing over the Constitution.
I respect yours as well. It is refreshing to be able to discuss a topic with someone. Come from different angles and different opinions and still keep it civil and interesting. These types of discussions have become such a rarity on this board. Thank you.
I mirror your comments ... so right back at ya! :
This is a bit off topic, though feel it kind of fits in with our discussion. This is from a good friend who's opinion I greatly respect ...
Voting is not an option for me, it's a requirement. I spent my teens in South Africa and I watched many good folks die for the right to vote. In their honor, I have always trudged to the polls and cast my ballot. The issue, as you pointed out, is who to vote for? Many people have said to me over the years 'I would vote for this guy, but he's going to lose and I don't want to waste my vote.' Right there I have a problem. The only wasted vote is a vote not cast on principle, but rather in a 'sporting manner; ie: I want to be part of the winning team!
I believe each citizen must make a choice on principle, not party, liberal or conservative or whatever, and I believe each vote cast for an individual must consider the individual, not what party affiliation is involved.
I'm a lunatic voter. I look at everything from every angle. Once I voted for a history teacher who was running for president and I was one of 487 people who voted for him. xxx won the election, but I won because this gentleman represented a principle that was important to me at the time ... It doesn't have to be a high-falutin' principle, but on principle I don't vote for idiots.
The main thing is I force myself to make a choice. As I said, voting is not optional for me.
Add up the principles and vote for the one that takes priorities over the others. Sometimes this involves holding your nose while voting."
She didn't show she understood anything. She used talking points, and when counterattacked, she changed the subject. She didn't answer some questions. I didn't think she would fail stylistically, I wanted to get substance, and it wasn't there. She didn't defend when she attacked.
So I think she did terrible in regards to someone that could be President, but since the bar was so low, many think she did better.
i agree
however, since i live in the "big city" and not on "main street" she wasn't talking to me anyway....not that she said anything
This is a bit off topic, though feel it kind of fits in with our discussion. This is from a good friend who's opinion I greatly respect ...
Voting is not an option for me, it's a requirement. I spent my teens in South Africa and I watched many good folks die for the right to vote. In their honor, I have always trudged to the polls and cast my ballot. The issue, as you pointed out, is who to vote for? Many people have said to me over the years 'I would vote for this guy, but he's going to lose and I don't want to waste my vote.' Right there I have a problem. The only wasted vote is a vote not cast on principle, but rather in a 'sporting manner; ie: I want to be part of the winning team!
I believe each citizen must make a choice on principle, not party, liberal or conservative or whatever, and I believe each vote cast for an individual must consider the individual, not what party affiliation is involved.
I'm a lunatic voter. I look at everything from every angle. Once I voted for a history teacher who was running for president and I was one of 487 people who voted for him. xxx won the election, but I won because this gentleman represented a principle that was important to me at the time ... It doesn't have to be a high-falutin' principle, but on principle I don't vote for idiots.
The main thing is I force myself to make a choice. As I said, voting is not optional for me.
Add up the principles and vote for the one that takes priorities over the others. Sometimes this involves holding your nose while voting."
Thanks again mammasan! Have a great weekend! h&d
TThat is a great email and you have a great weekend as well.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
thanks I will take a look at it....one more thing I would like to add to this thread....Didn’t the Obama camp give Obama the victory when he held his own against McCain on the Foreign policies debate…..
Well of course each campaign is going to say that their candidate won. They would be out of their minds to come out and say that their candidate lost.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
thanks I will take a look at it....one more thing I would like to add to this thread....Didn’t the Obama camp give Obama the victory when he held his own against McCain on the Foreign policies debate…..
you're assuming mcpalin held her own....perhaps if she answered a question, I'd give that to you, but I can't....
I watched the beginning and then went to the Sigur Ros concert. From the clips I've seen and what I've read, it seems like she did better than people thought. Not as stupid and clueless as she's been lately.
That being said - this "gosh, darn, oh, shucks, I'm a small town middle class hockey mom" thing makes me want to puke. But like somebody else posted, that "I'm just like you" worked for Bush.
And can somebody explain the "Joe Sixpack" thing? Am I missing something? Do people want want to elect Joe Sixpack?
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I actually am disappointed in McCain for also doing it...but for what it’s worth McCain did congratulate him on the Denver speech...and in reality I am disappointed in a how McCain is running this campaign in general, but I will still vote for him because I agree with him and Palin on a lot of issues.
If you don't mind me asking, why are you going to vote for Obama?
What has he said makes you want to give him your vote?
Since I cannot sway any of you...can you sway me?
Well to answer your question I am not voting for Obama. I'm not voting for McCain either. I believe that neither candidate's policies are good for America. I'm not here to sway your vote one way or the other. You vote for who you believe to be the best candidate. What I do try to do here is inform and share information with others on important issues. I don't care who an individual votes for I just hope that they are making an informed decision. I'm just tired of seeing and hearing the American electorate supporting the worst possible candidates because of a lack information. This election may be one of the most important in our lifetime and to see people basing their decision on half truths and lies is unacceptable.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Clearly, you must've had very high expectations for her. Remember the question is based on your prior expectations and whether she met them. I know you don't agree with her politically, but I'm not asking about that... it's more of a style question than substance.... and this is based on expectations.
Personally, I thought she'd hold her own... but, I was impressed by how she answered questions and honestly dodged questions. I think she did a good job relative to what I thought she would do. My score is a 4 out of 5.
Jeez.. what a suprise you feel this way.. please tell ~ is there nothing you will not defend this woman about? You truly seem to be her greatest fan since she was announced five weeks ago.. I find it honestly mind boggling.
Bascially you want us to answer the type of style she gave off her rehearsed answers to and forget the substance.. that ridiculous!
You were happy with how she answered questions? What did she answer? You are totally right that she dodged questions. She did that well enough. What I find amazing is that we are basically giving her props for not screwing up.. is this really what we have come to?
I can be open minded enough and FAIR and say she stood her sarcastic filled, mocking ground. She had no horrendous moments. Hip hip hooray! I will be honest and say I wished she had a tourettes type moment and uttered something horrendous.. but that would have been just for my own personal entertainment.
I thought she got a C+ on her end of term final.. but also.. have been wondering.. she has been wearing her hair down alot.. perfect place to hide a wire for her earpiece!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As individual fingers we can easily be broken, but together we make a mighty fist ~ Sitting Bull
I give her a 3. She was able to convey all the McCain talking points. I'm not giving her more because she really did seem to lack substance on some answers. She seemed to blow off the question and just say whatever the hell she felt like.
And before anyone gets in a lather, "yes" I realize all politicians do that.
Well to answer your question I am not voting for Obama. I'm not voting for McCain either. I believe that neither candidate's policies are good for America. I'm not here to sway your vote one way or the other. You vote for who you believe to be the best candidate. What I do try to do here is inform and share information with others on important issues. I don't care who an individual votes for I just hope that they are making an informed decision. I'm just tired of seeing and hearing the American electorate supporting the worst possible candidates because of a lack information. This election may be one of the most important in our lifetime and to see people basing their decision on half truths and lies is unacceptable.
Well, I commend you for your efforts...I wish more people would approach the election with your thoughts. Sadly we only get 2 people to vote for each and every election...I know we can always vote for the 3rd party...but lets be serious, it is throwing away a vote, so like most people they vote the less of two evils...are in some cases, what is the "in" thing to do like a person here at my work
But let’s open it up to Obama supporters, why are you voting for Obama to be the next president?
How is voting 3rd party throwing away my vote? How many people out there do you think feel that neither of these candidates is a good choice? What do you think would happen if every single one of those voters decided to vote 3rd Party? It would send a message to the washington don't you think.
It's not about winning because guess what, we the people never win. We always loose regardless of what party gets into the Oval office. It's about sending the Republicans and the Democrats a message that we are no longer going to sit back and watch them ruin our country, trample the Constitution, spend our tax dollars with impunity and undertake actions that run counter to the will and benefit of the people of this country. Only once we have done that will we win and voting for the lesser of two evils will not get us any closer to that goal.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Comments
I both agree and disagree. Looking at all sides on this. The subtlety is in "for many". For many there was nothing new and nothing to base a decision on.
Possibly though, for partial Palin folks, this was a victory. Up until this point she has not handled herself well at all. She showed up and pulled it off.
Decisions have been made on less. Just pointing out that there will be folks living the life fandango on her performance last night.
Sorry mammasan, don't mean to be a pest, just looking at this from a wide angle lens.
Please you are not being pest. Yes Palin definitely did sure up those in the base who where doubtful, but let's be a honest even if she completely bombed the conservative base was not going to turn tail and vote Obama/Biden. My belief is that the truly undecided voter, the one's who still really have no idea which way they will go, will not be swayed by either candidates performance. Neither candidate really hit that home run.
http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/10/03/palin-rebounds-in-debate-–-but-is-it-too-late/
Yes I hear ya and fully agree with this.
I think what I am actually doing is preparing myself in case these two actually get in to that white house ... <sigh> ... Thanks mammasan, I always respect your views. : >
As much as I don't agree with Obama and his politics, I try to be as neutral as possible since I am not voting for either Obama or McCain, I believe that McCain/Palin would be a bit worse for this country. Palin truly does scare me simply because I can see the similarities between her and the Bush administration. I would rather have a president who I don't agree with much than one who is going to continue plowing over the Constitution.
I respect yours as well. It is refreshing to be able to discuss a topic with someone. Come from different angles and different opinions and still keep it civil and interesting. These types of discussions have become such a rarity on this board. Thank you.
She did basically what I thought she would. She had lots of talking points memorized and she knows how to change a topic and go into something she feels sort of comfortable with. The moderator should have forced her to answer those, but of course she probably was extra gentle because of the book thing.
No train wrecks. I didn't think we'd see one.
What does she mean by "The surge works"? To me, this is a weird way of expressing herself, assuming she actually knows what the surge was/is.
i found biden to be good at answering her critiques ... it was interesting how she would accuse obama of voting a certain way and biden would just say mccain voted the same way ... she never responded to biden's accusations of mccain at all ...
my objective opinion is that he won the debate based on a format that basically doesn't allow anyone to win or lose big ... but she did what she had to do based on her relative experience and knowledge ...
your kidding?
1, if that...
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/category/fact-check/
To be fair both campaigns have engaged in either lying or only telling part of the story.
Here is another link to a different article.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/ap_on_el_pr/debate_fact_check
(She didn't always answer questions, but turned that into a point of pride, saying she may not be answering the way Biden or the moderator wanted to hear, but that "I'm going to talk straight to the American people.")
how is exceeding the worst expectations possible make her do well...what a joke....duping the american public
Clearly, you must've had very high expectations for her. Remember the question is based on your prior expectations and whether she met them. I know you don't agree with her politically, but I'm not asking about that... it's more of a style question than substance.... and this is based on expectations.
Personally, I thought she'd hold her own... but, I was impressed by how she answered questions and honestly dodged questions. I think she did a good job relative to what I thought she would do. My score is a 4 out of 5.
I mirror your comments ... so right back at ya! :
This is a bit off topic, though feel it kind of fits in with our discussion. This is from a good friend who's opinion I greatly respect ...
Voting is not an option for me, it's a requirement. I spent my teens in South Africa and I watched many good folks die for the right to vote. In their honor, I have always trudged to the polls and cast my ballot. The issue, as you pointed out, is who to vote for? Many people have said to me over the years 'I would vote for this guy, but he's going to lose and I don't want to waste my vote.' Right there I have a problem. The only wasted vote is a vote not cast on principle, but rather in a 'sporting manner; ie: I want to be part of the winning team!
I believe each citizen must make a choice on principle, not party, liberal or conservative or whatever, and I believe each vote cast for an individual must consider the individual, not what party affiliation is involved.
I'm a lunatic voter. I look at everything from every angle. Once I voted for a history teacher who was running for president and I was one of 487 people who voted for him. xxx won the election, but I won because this gentleman represented a principle that was important to me at the time ... It doesn't have to be a high-falutin' principle, but on principle I don't vote for idiots.
The main thing is I force myself to make a choice. As I said, voting is not optional for me.
Add up the principles and vote for the one that takes priorities over the others. Sometimes this involves holding your nose while voting."
Thanks again mammasan! Have a great weekend! h&d
i agree
however, since i live in the "big city" and not on "main street" she wasn't talking to me anyway....not that she said anything
TThat is a great email and you have a great weekend as well.
Well of course each campaign is going to say that their candidate won. They would be out of their minds to come out and say that their candidate lost.
you're assuming mcpalin held her own....perhaps if she answered a question, I'd give that to you, but I can't....
Pepper calling the kettle black.
And it looks like McCain's the one waving the white flag, in Michigan at least.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/4731512142/" title="PJ Banner2 by Mister J Photography, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1135/4731512142_258f2d6ab4_b.jpg" width="630" height="112" alt="PJ Banner2" /></a>
Both parties do it. Both campaigns do it. Are you as equally disappointed with the McCain campaign for doing it?
That being said - this "gosh, darn, oh, shucks, I'm a small town middle class hockey mom" thing makes me want to puke. But like somebody else posted, that "I'm just like you" worked for Bush.
And can somebody explain the "Joe Sixpack" thing? Am I missing something? Do people want want to elect Joe Sixpack?
Forgetting expectations, I give her a 2 or maybe 2.5. Not as shaky as I thought she'd be, but not too much to say either.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Well to answer your question I am not voting for Obama. I'm not voting for McCain either. I believe that neither candidate's policies are good for America. I'm not here to sway your vote one way or the other. You vote for who you believe to be the best candidate. What I do try to do here is inform and share information with others on important issues. I don't care who an individual votes for I just hope that they are making an informed decision. I'm just tired of seeing and hearing the American electorate supporting the worst possible candidates because of a lack information. This election may be one of the most important in our lifetime and to see people basing their decision on half truths and lies is unacceptable.
Jeez.. what a suprise you feel this way.. please tell ~ is there nothing you will not defend this woman about? You truly seem to be her greatest fan since she was announced five weeks ago.. I find it honestly mind boggling.
Bascially you want us to answer the type of style she gave off her rehearsed answers to and forget the substance.. that ridiculous!
You were happy with how she answered questions? What did she answer? You are totally right that she dodged questions. She did that well enough. What I find amazing is that we are basically giving her props for not screwing up.. is this really what we have come to?
I can be open minded enough and FAIR and say she stood her sarcastic filled, mocking ground. She had no horrendous moments. Hip hip hooray! I will be honest and say I wished she had a tourettes type moment and uttered something horrendous.. but that would have been just for my own personal entertainment.
I thought she got a C+ on her end of term final.. but also.. have been wondering.. she has been wearing her hair down alot.. perfect place to hide a wire for her earpiece!!!
As individual fingers we can easily be broken, but together we make a mighty fist ~ Sitting Bull
And before anyone gets in a lather, "yes" I realize all politicians do that.
truth
How is voting 3rd party throwing away my vote? How many people out there do you think feel that neither of these candidates is a good choice? What do you think would happen if every single one of those voters decided to vote 3rd Party? It would send a message to the washington don't you think.
It's not about winning because guess what, we the people never win. We always loose regardless of what party gets into the Oval office. It's about sending the Republicans and the Democrats a message that we are no longer going to sit back and watch them ruin our country, trample the Constitution, spend our tax dollars with impunity and undertake actions that run counter to the will and benefit of the people of this country. Only once we have done that will we win and voting for the lesser of two evils will not get us any closer to that goal.