I posted this because of the concept of finally saying enough is enough. And deciding you aren't going to go along with the corrupt deeds of your govt and resisting. Is it that difficult to grasp? You don't have to take everything as a 100% literal comparison...jeez.
Seriously, I have never seen so many reactionary posts and such an effort to do anything but address the point of a thread, in the first place.
Anybody here at all feel like taking on the question... What will it take for you to start resisting?
the patriot act, constant surveillance, wiretapping, extraordinary rendition, loss of habeas corpus, executive branch power monopoly to go to war, a congress that sits on it's hands, pretends to care while profiting from the mess just the same?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Seriously, I have never seen so many reactionary posts and such an effort to do anything but address the point of a thread, in the first place.
Anybody here at all feel like taking on the question... What will it take for you to start resisting?
the patriot act, constant surveillance, wiretapping, extraordinary rendition, loss of habeas corpus, executive branch power monopoly to go to war, a congress that sits on it's hands, pretends to care while profiting from the mess just the same?
People will have to be forced to live under conditions approaching curfews towards a policed state (of existence). The continual pressures of this longterm would start to put cracks in the egg. Start tossing in a few curfews and see how many people really do start to get freaky in the neighborhood when the sun goes down....hehe
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I will read this later as I can't here at work. I was hoping someone would be able to pick out where my quote came from since everyone was talking about paranoia.
As for the main question presented by the OP, I'm not sure what it'll take for me to start resisting. I mean, I'm certainly not going to vote for any of the "main three" because I think they are so full of shit that just one visit to the bathroom won't fix things. I guess, if I knew more of what I could do other than just voting, I'd probably consider it.
So what do you think? Has there not been abuses by this gov't to warrant any paranoia? Overly paranoid is a problem. Dismissing facts to avoid being called paranoid is equally a problem.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Seriously, I have never seen so many reactionary posts and such an effort to do anything but address the point of a thread, in the first place.
Anybody here at all feel like taking on the question... What will it take for you to start resisting?
the patriot act, constant surveillance, wiretapping, extraordinary rendition, loss of habeas corpus, executive branch power monopoly to go to war, a congress that sits on it's hands, pretends to care while profiting from the mess just the same?
It all goes back to taxes. If we didn't give them our money, they wouldn't have the power to do these things.
We need to start voting in people who promise to lower taxes and start shrinking the government and its power.
If you're voting for people who want to increase taxes and increase government and thereby increasing government's power, then you're not resisting in my opinion.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
It all goes back to taxes. If we didn't give them our money, they wouldn't have the power to do these things.
We need to start voting in people who promise to lower taxes and start shrinking the government and its power.
If you're voting for people who want to increase taxes and increase government and thereby increasing government's power, then you're not resisting in my opinion.
Tax money is for the good of the people. Now I know everyone has a different idea of what 'good' is but the fact remains that this tax money doesn't automatically create corruption. That's like saying guns create murder. It's the people's job to hold elected govt officials accountable when they abuse their access to the tax money we all are putting in the pot and decide to use it to further their wealth and power instead of using it in ways that most of the public sees fit to better our society.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Seriously, I have never seen so many reactionary posts and such an effort to do anything but address the point of a thread, in the first place.
Anybody here at all feel like taking on the question... What will it take for you to start resisting?
the patriot act, constant surveillance, wiretapping, extraordinary rendition, loss of habeas corpus, executive branch power monopoly to go to war, a congress that sits on it's hands, pretends to care while profiting from the mess just the same?
trying to make your point by gross exaggeration and false comparisons is INHERENTLY DISHONEST AND HURTS YOUR ARGUMENT! This is what you and people like you can't get through your thick skulls. I would think the reponses you got illustrate my point perfectly .
jesus fucking christ.
trying to make your point by gross exaggeration and false comparisons is INHERENTLY DISHONEST AND HURTS YOUR ARGUMENT! This is what you and people like you can't get through your thick skulls. I would think the reponses you got illustrate my point perfectly .
jesus fucking christ.
When did he say the US was comparable to Nazi Germany? You're trying to put words in his mouth to discredit his point and that's the only dishonesty here. He gave an example of what happens when a population becomes submissive and continues to overlook abuses of power. Do you not get that?! It's not a comparison of the two countries...it's an effort to show that this policy of excusing our govt and not holding them accountable when we see things happening that are wrong now all the time does not work for the people's interests only the govt's power plays. What's going to stop them from abusing power to an even worse extent?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
as for the topic, I'll 'resist' when it gets bad. I'm sure our definitions of resistance are different. I dont consider voting third party or holding a sign while blocking traffic much of an act of resistance. more like a mild act of displeasure. I would define resistence as guerilla warfare, and it will take a lot more than whats happening now for me to start ambushing gov't vehicles and bombing Office buildings.
as for the topic, I'll 'resist' when it gets bad. I'm sure our definitions of resistance are different. I dont consider voting third party or holding a sign while blocking traffic much of an act of resistance. more like a mild act of displeasure. I would define resistence as guerilla warfare, and it will take a lot more than whats happening now for me to start ambushing gov't vehicles and bombing Office buildings.
A simple act of resistance could be to stop supporting and voting for the ones committing the abuses.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
as for the topic, I'll 'resist' when it gets bad. I'm sure our definitions of resistance are different. I dont consider voting third party or holding a sign while blocking traffic much of an act of resistance. more like a mild act of displeasure. I would define resistence as guerilla warfare, and it will take a lot more than whats happening now for me to start ambushing gov't vehicles.
using violence gives them an excuse to do the same, where they have the upper hand.
Non-violent public general strikes are where we hold the power, see MLK.
I haven't even watched the video. But I've seen enough of the fascist comparisons to know how I feel about it. I don't think the example is that far fetched. I think the US is a terrorist attack away from some serious domestic problems.
I just showed part III of Zeitgeist to my old man the other night...with it fresh in my head, this forum keeps reminding me of the moral of that story: We need to stop letting the minutae of these issues divide us, and look for the ways we are alike. That's how we empower ourselves.
The occupation of Iraq needs to end. Torture is bad. Unchecked surveillance laws are no fun. Habeus Corpus is integral to a free society. The spiralling debt and corporate bailouts need to end. An alternative to oil is needed stat. These are things that the majority agree on, but we'd rather squabble over the differences in the ideological details. I agree that non-violent protest is needed...but I can't help but be pessimistic that the support just isn't there, and won't be until people's lives are directly affected.
If we can't agree on the details of how to make things right, pressuring the government to do something about the BIG issues that we DO agree on, at least puts the democratic process in motion.
edit: (a few things I mentioned don't apply to my country, but saying "you" instead of "we" sounds accusatory...and divisive )
When did he say the US was comparable to Nazi Germany? You're trying to put words in his mouth to discredit his point and that's the only dishonesty here. He gave an example of what happens when a population becomes submissive and continues to overlook abuses of power. Do you not get that?! It's not a comparison of the two countries...it's an effort to show that this policy of excusing our govt and not holding them accountable when we see things happening that are wrong now all the time does not work for the people's interests only the govt's power plays. What's going to stop them from abusing power to an even worse extent?
so you are saying you posted this as purely hypothetical and not an attempt to compare America under Bush to Germany under Hitler? So you aren't one of the droves of people on the internet who love to moronically compare Bush to Hitler? if so thats fine, but you will have to excuse some people for being "reactionary" when its such a common occurence.
Non-violent public general strikes are where we hold the power, see MLK.
thats at least a valid tactic, though i doubt its as nonviolent a tactic as one would think. Plus, i think that governments are slowly realizing that people are a dime a dozen, workers can be replaced (or outsourced) and cracking a enough skulls will bring the rest in line. Look at Bhurma, look at Tibet, look at Tianinmen square. Add to that the fact if things got really heavy, 90% of protesters here would probably go back home to mommy and daddy in the suburbs. There is no threat of escalation, and as a result we are still in Iraq and China still runs Tibet. Even though the MLK movement was peaceful, there was the threat that things could get worse, and justifiably so. If the government has no reason to fear you, it has no reason to give into your demands. why would they?
so you are saying you posted this as purely hypothetical and not an attempt to compare America under Bush to Germany under Hitler? So you aren't one of the droves of people on the internet who love to moronically compare Bush to Hitler? if so thats fine, but you will have to excuse some people for being "reactionary" when its such a common occurence.
and since we are talking hypotheticals...
The point was to say: Look what happened here when the people didn't stand up to their gov't or bother holding them accountable. Shit got really bad and they did nothing.
So with that in mind, how much are we, the US citizens, going to excuse, dismiss, look the other way from and continue to allow, before we as a collective decide enough is enough. For me, I'm already passed that point. The gov't has no business doing the shit they get by with year after year. And it bugs the shit out of me when it's met with only shrugs and half of the prepetrators being excused because they are seen as 'less evil'. This whole mess has to end.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
thats at least a valid tactic, though i doubt its as nonviolent a tactic as one would think. Plus, i think that governments are slowly realizing that people are a dime a dozen, workers can be replaced (or outsourced) and cracking a enough skulls will bring the rest in line. Look at Bhurma, look at Tibet, look at Tianinmen square. Add to that the fact if things got really heavy, 90% of protesters here would probably go back home to mommy and daddy in the suburbs. There is no threat of escalation, and as a result we are still in Iraq and China still runs Tibet. Even though the MLK movement was peaceful, there was the threat that things could get worse, and justifiably so. If the government has no reason to fear you, it has no reason to give into your demands. why would they?
We have power in numbers alone. And if we quit supporting and excusing the gov't and quit making it so easy for them to control us....we might finally start seeing some change.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Tax money is for the good of the people. Now I know everyone has a different idea of what 'good' is but the fact remains that this tax money doesn't automatically create corruption. That's like saying guns create murder. It's the people's job to hold elected govt officials accountable when they abuse their access to the tax money we all are putting in the pot and decide to use it to further their wealth and power instead of using it in ways that most of the public sees fit to better our society.
So where did the government get the money to wage the campaign in Iraq??? Taxes - that's where.
Now did the politicians campaign on raising (or keeping) taxes by saying they were going to use billions of it for the war? Of course they didn't mention the war. In other words, you can't believe them so let's stop giving them more money...AKA Power.
That's what you don't get - that the governmnent is going to spend - or more accurately waste - the gross majority of what we agree to give them. Put that money back in the hands of society and a lot more productive, helping things will get accomplished.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
So where did the government get the money to wage the campaign in Iraq??? Taxes - that's where.
Now did the politicians campaign on raising (or keeping) taxes by saying they were going to use billions of it for the war? Of course they didn't mention the war. In other words, you can't believe them so let's stop giving them more money...AKA Power.
That's what you don't get - that the governmnent is going to spend - or more accurately waste - the gross majority of what we agree to give them. Put that money back in the hands of society and a lot more productive, helping things will get accomplished.
If people held their govt accountable and stayed informed about what they are doing with their tax money then they wouldn't be able to abuse their power without losing their jobs.
The average citizen, unfortunately, is spending most of their money on things that are absolutely not helping out their communities.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I wasn't taking that proverb in the literal sense. I took it as if you know about something but don't act in a manner that shows you know about it then it's the same effect as if you didn't know it in the first place.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
So where did the government get the money to wage the campaign in Iraq??? Taxes - that's where.
Now did the politicians campaign on raising (or keeping) taxes by saying they were going to use billions of it for the war? Of course they didn't mention the war. In other words, you can't believe them so let's stop giving them more money...AKA Power.
That's what you don't get - that the governmnent is going to spend - or more accurately waste - the gross majority of what we agree to give them. Put that money back in the hands of society and a lot more productive, helping things will get accomplished.
My understanding is that a majority of the money spent on the war came from thin air. They just had the Federal Reserve print some money up. You can look at that as a tax, I guess. Considering the fact that inflation acts as an invisible tax on the people.
you don't say... I got that exact feeling listening to the lecture in the original post.
you did? why did you feel frightened by the thought of standing up and resisting??
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
i guess answering any of the questions posed to you would be asking too much, eh?
i guess it is easier to call ppl names like paranoid and act like children rather than have a discussion
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Comments
thanks for the encouragement
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Anybody here at all feel like taking on the question... What will it take for you to start resisting?
the patriot act, constant surveillance, wiretapping, extraordinary rendition, loss of habeas corpus, executive branch power monopoly to go to war, a congress that sits on it's hands, pretends to care while profiting from the mess just the same?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
People will have to be forced to live under conditions approaching curfews towards a policed state (of existence). The continual pressures of this longterm would start to put cracks in the egg. Start tossing in a few curfews and see how many people really do start to get freaky in the neighborhood when the sun goes down....hehe
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you.
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/in_the_know_is_the_government
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I will read this later as I can't here at work. I was hoping someone would be able to pick out where my quote came from since everyone was talking about paranoia.
As for the main question presented by the OP, I'm not sure what it'll take for me to start resisting. I mean, I'm certainly not going to vote for any of the "main three" because I think they are so full of shit that just one visit to the bathroom won't fix things. I guess, if I knew more of what I could do other than just voting, I'd probably consider it.
So what do you think? Has there not been abuses by this gov't to warrant any paranoia? Overly paranoid is a problem. Dismissing facts to avoid being called paranoid is equally a problem.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial
lalalalalalala....life is good...nothing out of sorts around here.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
It all goes back to taxes. If we didn't give them our money, they wouldn't have the power to do these things.
We need to start voting in people who promise to lower taxes and start shrinking the government and its power.
If you're voting for people who want to increase taxes and increase government and thereby increasing government's power, then you're not resisting in my opinion.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Tax money is for the good of the people. Now I know everyone has a different idea of what 'good' is but the fact remains that this tax money doesn't automatically create corruption. That's like saying guns create murder. It's the people's job to hold elected govt officials accountable when they abuse their access to the tax money we all are putting in the pot and decide to use it to further their wealth and power instead of using it in ways that most of the public sees fit to better our society.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
trying to make your point by gross exaggeration and false comparisons is INHERENTLY DISHONEST AND HURTS YOUR ARGUMENT! This is what you and people like you can't get through your thick skulls. I would think the reponses you got illustrate my point perfectly .
jesus fucking christ.
We need to rise. Life is in motion.
When did he say the US was comparable to Nazi Germany? You're trying to put words in his mouth to discredit his point and that's the only dishonesty here. He gave an example of what happens when a population becomes submissive and continues to overlook abuses of power. Do you not get that?! It's not a comparison of the two countries...it's an effort to show that this policy of excusing our govt and not holding them accountable when we see things happening that are wrong now all the time does not work for the people's interests only the govt's power plays. What's going to stop them from abusing power to an even worse extent?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
A simple act of resistance could be to stop supporting and voting for the ones committing the abuses.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Non-violent public general strikes are where we hold the power, see MLK.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I just showed part III of Zeitgeist to my old man the other night...with it fresh in my head, this forum keeps reminding me of the moral of that story: We need to stop letting the minutae of these issues divide us, and look for the ways we are alike. That's how we empower ourselves.
The occupation of Iraq needs to end. Torture is bad. Unchecked surveillance laws are no fun. Habeus Corpus is integral to a free society. The spiralling debt and corporate bailouts need to end. An alternative to oil is needed stat. These are things that the majority agree on, but we'd rather squabble over the differences in the ideological details. I agree that non-violent protest is needed...but I can't help but be pessimistic that the support just isn't there, and won't be until people's lives are directly affected.
If we can't agree on the details of how to make things right, pressuring the government to do something about the BIG issues that we DO agree on, at least puts the democratic process in motion.
edit: (a few things I mentioned don't apply to my country, but saying "you" instead of "we" sounds accusatory...and divisive
so you are saying you posted this as purely hypothetical and not an attempt to compare America under Bush to Germany under Hitler? So you aren't one of the droves of people on the internet who love to moronically compare Bush to Hitler? if so thats fine, but you will have to excuse some people for being "reactionary" when its such a common occurence.
and since we are talking hypotheticals...
thats at least a valid tactic, though i doubt its as nonviolent a tactic as one would think. Plus, i think that governments are slowly realizing that people are a dime a dozen, workers can be replaced (or outsourced) and cracking a enough skulls will bring the rest in line. Look at Bhurma, look at Tibet, look at Tianinmen square. Add to that the fact if things got really heavy, 90% of protesters here would probably go back home to mommy and daddy in the suburbs. There is no threat of escalation, and as a result we are still in Iraq and China still runs Tibet. Even though the MLK movement was peaceful, there was the threat that things could get worse, and justifiably so. If the government has no reason to fear you, it has no reason to give into your demands. why would they?
The point was to say: Look what happened here when the people didn't stand up to their gov't or bother holding them accountable. Shit got really bad and they did nothing.
So with that in mind, how much are we, the US citizens, going to excuse, dismiss, look the other way from and continue to allow, before we as a collective decide enough is enough. For me, I'm already passed that point. The gov't has no business doing the shit they get by with year after year. And it bugs the shit out of me when it's met with only shrugs and half of the prepetrators being excused because they are seen as 'less evil'. This whole mess has to end.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
We have power in numbers alone. And if we quit supporting and excusing the gov't and quit making it so easy for them to control us....we might finally start seeing some change.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
So where did the government get the money to wage the campaign in Iraq??? Taxes - that's where.
Now did the politicians campaign on raising (or keeping) taxes by saying they were going to use billions of it for the war? Of course they didn't mention the war. In other words, you can't believe them so let's stop giving them more money...AKA Power.
That's what you don't get - that the governmnent is going to spend - or more accurately waste - the gross majority of what we agree to give them. Put that money back in the hands of society and a lot more productive, helping things will get accomplished.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
No it's not!!
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
If people held their govt accountable and stayed informed about what they are doing with their tax money then they wouldn't be able to abuse their power without losing their jobs.
The average citizen, unfortunately, is spending most of their money on things that are absolutely not helping out their communities.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I wasn't taking that proverb in the literal sense. I took it as if you know about something but don't act in a manner that shows you know about it then it's the same effect as if you didn't know it in the first place.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
My understanding is that a majority of the money spent on the war came from thin air. They just had the Federal Reserve print some money up. You can look at that as a tax, I guess. Considering the fact that inflation acts as an invisible tax on the people.
you did? why did you feel frightened by the thought of standing up and resisting??
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
i guess answering any of the questions posed to you would be asking too much, eh?
i guess it is easier to call ppl names like paranoid and act like children rather than have a discussion
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way