Do Schools Kill Creativity?

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  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Then I certainly can't be on board with your thinking. In fact, I say we remove all creativity from school immediately...at least not permit female participation in creative endeavors in school.

    LOL! I walked right into that one. Forgot who I was talking to for a moment. :D
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,882
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    LOL! I walked right into that one. Forgot who I was talking to for a moment. :D


    I've changed my mind. My wife and I have a little girl on the way...I am now back on board...eliminate math and science and only permit creative endeavors for girls. There shall be no more sex and drugs for females for the next 100 years...of course any female currently 18 years old or over is grandfathered (or grandmothered) out of the new policy.

    There, a compromise. I'm a uniter.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,882
    More on topic...

    I think schools in the US need to worry more about teaching foreign languages and about foreign cultures than creativity. But both are important. 1 breeds tolerance and better understanding, the other incourages risk taking and out-of-the box thinking that can lead to improvements.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    cincybearcat wrote:
    I've changed my mind. My wife and I have a little girl on the way...I am now back on board...eliminate math and science and only permit creative endeavors for girls. There shall be no more sex and drugs for females for the next 100 years...of course any female currently 18 years old or over is grandfathered (or grandmothered) out of the new policy.

    There, a compromise. I'm a uniter.


    Oh my, congratulations!!!! Pssst....she's gonna be liberal as all get out and it's gonna drive you insane! :p
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,882
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Oh my, congratulations!!!! Pssst....she's gonna be liberal as all get out and it's gonna drive you insane! :p

    Probably. It'll be very ironic if she is...but I'm not going to tell you why.

    Anyhow, thanks. So long as she cares and thinks about her positions/beliefs, that's enough for me really. Though it will drive me a bit nuts. But, didn;t mean to hijack your thread.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    cincybearcat wrote:
    More on topic...

    I think schools in the US need to worry more about teaching foreign languages and about foreign cultures than creativity. But both are important. 1 breeds tolerance and better understanding, the other incourages risk taking and out-of-the box thinking that can lead to improvements.

    They should definitely offer more choices besides French, which I took, and spanish. And at my school they did have the french and spanish clubs...they got to go on some pretty cool trips.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Probably. It'll be very ironic if she is...but I'm not going to tell you why.

    Anyhow, thanks. So long as she cares and thinks about her positions/beliefs, that's enough for me really. Though it will drive me a bit nuts. But, didn;t mean to hijack your thread.


    You'll make an amazing father. :) You didn't hijack my thread at all.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,882
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    They should definitely offer more choices besides French, which I took, and spanish. And at my school they did have the french and spanish clubs...they got to go on some pretty cool trips.


    Mine too...I went to France. But I mean starting much earlier when a kid can truly absorb the language with more ease. And learn multiple languages. Get them started very early learning how to learn differrent languages and understanding and accepting differrent cultures.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Mine too...I went to France. But I mean starting much earlier when a kid can truly absorb the language with more ease. And learn multiple languages. Get them started very early learning how to learn differrent languages and understanding and accepting differrent cultures.

    Yes, especially because they are so much more open to that kind of learning when they are very young.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    helpme2helpyou wrote:
    I think one reason that teachers get so defensive is because people criticize them, and have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

    BAM! There it is!
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    cornnifer wrote:
    BAM! There it is!

    Oh, I know what I'm talking about.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    frgntoad wrote:
    I feel that schools do hurt a child's creative side. Little Johnny is told to color the dog brown or black in first grade because that is what a dog is to look like. If Little Johnny colors the dog purple or blue, he is made to feel taht he has made a mistake, and has to correct it. What if Little Johnny just wanted a purple dog that day? What was the harm in letting him be creative? There is a time and place for everything, even school.

    when my 18 year old was in kindergarten her teacher brought to my attention that little mia couldn't keep her colouring within the lines nor could she cut ON the line. i looked at her teacher and said, 'and?...is that it?' besides the fact that she's just 5 years old, she's left handed which makes it rather difficult to use the right handed scissors. for the remainder of the school year i dismissed everything else that teacher had to say.
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I think time should infact be taken away from the 'cores'. They are mostly just repeated year after year and are meaningless to the child. There should be more time spent of the arts, creavite writing, dance, etc....divide classes up and let the invidual choose which subject interests them and let them run with. You can never force someone to be interested in something they simply aren't. That just creates boredom and a disinterest in school. Give them a reason to want to come to school and enjoy what they are being taught.You can't get a child to learn by ramming it down their throats. There needs to be flexibility and the opportunity for the childs voice to be heard. Find a nice balance between the fundamentals and the child's own aspirations.

    ah the utopian school sytem.
    i agree, you cant force children to learn something they have no interest in. but on the other hand, they have to have the basics otherwise all the dancing in the world is not going to provide a foundation for future learning. children simply can not dance their way through life. isnt that what elementary/primary school is for? to learn the basics so they can be built upon in future years?
    as for having the child's voice be heard. how about we abolish sport in the younger school and turn that over to creativity. or give the children a choice between sport and the creative arts.
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  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    catefrances wrote:
    ah the utopian school sytem.
    i agree, you cant force children to learn something they have no interest in. but on the other hand, they have to have the basics otherwise all the dancing in the world is not going to provide a foundation for future learning. children simply can not dance their way through life. isnt that what elementary/primary school is for? to learn the basics so they can be built upon in future years?
    as for having the child's voice be heard. how about we abolish sport in the younger school and turn that over to creativity. or give the children a choice between sport and the creative arts.


    I think there can be a better balance of the basics and the arts or even sports...some children are naturally drawn to running, playing ball, etc. I just think the curriculum is too strict and rigid to encourage individuality and a strong sense of self.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I think there can be a better balance of the basics and the arts or even sports...some children are naturally drawn to running, playing ball, etc. I just think the curriculum is too strict and rigid to encourage individuality and a strong sense of self.

    it is difficult for me to be unbiased when it comes to this. i had a very strong sense of self and that was because i was a smart kid. there was nothing i couldn't learn or that i thought was beyond me. i still have a residual arrogance from in that i think that if i know something then the person i'm talking to should know it too. but i'm working on that cause OMG!! i have since found out i dont know everything. :D but when i was younger, and this still applies,(sometimes to my detriment) i was as curious as the proverbial cat, so learning came easy to me. and it was learning about ANYTHING. something that still applies today. i will go off on tangents and not return to base for ages. though perhaps that says more about my mercurial nature and daydreaminess than anything else. :)
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  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    catefrances wrote:
    it is difficult for me to be unbiased when it comes to this. i had a very strong sense of self and that was because i was a smart kid. there was nothing i couldn't learn or that i thought was beyond me. i still have a residual arrogance from in that i think that if i know something then the person i'm talking to should know it too. but i'm working on that cause OMG!! i have since found out i dont know everything. :D but when i was younger, and this still applies,(sometimes to my detriment) i was as curious as the proverbial cat, so learning came easy to me. and it was learning about ANYTHING. something that still applies today. i will go off on tangents and not return to base for ages. though perhaps that says more about my mercurial nature and daydreaminess than anything else. :)

    Yeah, I was much the same as that. I spent so much time at school day dreaming and feeling bored. School often seemed redundant. I just feel that so many children feel this way and the some of the time they spend at school could be spent being stimulated and building on their natural skills and talents.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Yeah, I was much the same as that. I spent so much time at school day dreaming and feeling bored. School often seemed redundant. I just feel that so many children feel this way and the some of the time they spend at school could be spent being stimulated and building on their natural skills and talents.

    oh i was stimulated. my main motivation was beating the boys. :D but then around 14, boys took on a whole different meaning and well... i'm still trying to recover from that. ;):D but also around 14 i discovered that there was another half to me. i started writing and have yet to stop. :)
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  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    Interesting thread, abook. The video raised some very pertinent points. I am somewhat on the fence about my public school experience. I had some pretty dull teachers, but I also had teachers that inspired me and left quite an indelible mark.

    I think those that hold creativity in high regard and are creative themselves possess the ability to reach into another's soul through an external means, to bring out emotions, to create that which inspires others. Creativity is so important. A little bit of creativity mixed with talent goes a long way and produces amazing things. I would add that creativity is equally important in the 'core' subjects. Great scientists and inventors have very creative minds as well. The difference between someone who just cranks out data and a true master of a discipline is creativity and imagination!
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • duffy
    duffy Posts: 74
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    This was really an inspiring presentation!

    http://opposingdigits.com/vlog/?p=1843

    "A must-see for every parent and teacher. Education guru Sir Ken Robinson makes an entertaining (and profoundly moving) case for creating an education system that nurtures creativity, rather than undermining it. Sir Ken Robinson is author of “Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative,” and a leading expert on innovation in education and business."



    my first reaction is to say yes, they do. at least the schools i went to. the spoiled brats being raised now have everything stroked and nurtured, however.
    mostly what schools do is kill 10 hours of a day. 9 hours are roll-call and getting to and fro a class, and the rest was crap too. lol
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    duffy wrote:
    my first reaction is to say yes, they do. at least the schools i went to. the spoiled brats being raised now have everything stroked and nurtured, however.
    mostly what schools do is kill 10 hours of a day. 9 hours are roll-call and getting to and fro a class, and the rest was crap too. lol

    10 hours?! holy shit! our kids are at school from around 9am until around 3pm. that's 6 hours. minus lunch and recess and there's not much time left for learning, let alone creativity.
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