Do Schools Kill Creativity?

AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
edited June 2007 in A Moving Train
This was really an inspiring presentation!

http://opposingdigits.com/vlog/?p=1843

"A must-see for every parent and teacher. Education guru Sir Ken Robinson makes an entertaining (and profoundly moving) case for creating an education system that nurtures creativity, rather than undermining it. Sir Ken Robinson is author of “Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative,” and a leading expert on innovation in education and business."
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Yes, atleast at the public educational facilities I attended. Everything was focused on a standardized test that determined a school's grade, which then determined the amount of funding the school got. We were drilled on how to take and pass the test. Do not get this confused with learning the material on it. We ran through drill after drill after drill on how to eliminate the choices that were obviously wrong, and how to then make a accurate choice when it came to choosing an answer. The writing part is probably the best example of the killing of creativity. There are two writing topics. You are assigned one randomly then must write on the topic. The first time my g/f took it (you have to take this test, the FCAT, throughout your school career up until your junior year.) she received a three (maximum score: 6) and she said she wrote as creatively and has interesting as she could. This also happened with me. We then wrote another essay, this one bland and consisting of nothing more than what we knew was the normal method for essay writing on a test. we both got fives. So, yea, I'll say it kills creativity.
  • Alex_CoeAlex_Coe Posts: 762
    They have art class... and tech and PE and most schools have recess...

    EDIT: Regarding the above, if you do well on the standardized test then it;s likely you learned something.
  • Alex_Coe wrote:
    They have art class... and tech and PE and most schools have recess...

    EDIT: Regarding the above, if you do well on the standardized test then it;s likely you learned something.

    Did you watch the presentation on the link? We are all aware they have art class and pe
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    Catholic schools do. I can vouch for it. Cunts.


    Okay, I'll watch the link, now. The thread title just hit a nerve, that's all.
  • Alex_Coe wrote:
    They have art class... and tech and PE and most schools have recess...

    EDIT: Regarding the above, if you do well on the standardized test then it;s likely you learned something.


    Yea, you learned how to take tests. By the way, for thirty minutes of my art class, each day (each class was an hour long) we took FCAT drills. And I remember a few gym classes which were canceled to attend school meetings about the FCAT. Man, I wish highschool had recess. That woulda been sweet.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    yes schools can kill creativity. but they also provide the ammunition to totally turn that on its head outside the structure of the institution and school hours.
    you just have to take it and use it to your advantage. and dont let the bastards get you down.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Didn't we have a big dicussion on this subject, about two years ago; here on the MT?

    Which featured a discussion regarding Ritalin being prescribed to kids, teenagers and adults. Creative brains and those who are not creative people....... ADD and so forth.


    I'm positive we did.

    We often have this discussion between several of my friends and I. I know a lot of people who are in either one creative art or another; or they are creative after their nine-to-fiver is done.

    Well anyway, I'm a firm believer in nuturing creativity and not stripping away or stifling creativity. A lot of what this guy said in the video, regarding the educational system, the intentions and effects of their curriculum designed for 'Standardized" testing; is something myself and many other people I know have talked about a lot. I find today's educational system disturbing, narrow, stringent and very infelxible.

    I've been giving some very serious thought to home schooling my sons, for the last two years. I really am not at all interested in handing my children over to their curriculum.
  • ForestBrainForestBrain Posts: 460
    I'm pro-homeschooling.
    When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
  • I'm pro-homeschooling.


    Im pro-the educational system getting it's shit straight
  • NMyTree wrote:
    Didn't we have a big dicussion on this subject, about two years ago; here on the MT?

    Which featured a discussion regarding Ritalin being prescribed to kids, teenagers and adults. Creative brains and those who are not creative people....... ADD and so forth.


    I'm positive we did.

    We often have this discussion between several of my friends and I. I know a lot of people who are in either one creative art or another; or they are creative after their nine-to-fiver is done.

    Well anyway, I'm a firm believer in nuturing creativity and not stripping away or stifling creativity. A lot of what this guy said in the video, regarding the educational system, the intentions and effects of their curriculum designed for 'Standardized" testing; is something myself and many other people I know have talked about a lot. I find today's educational system disturbing, narrow, stringent and very infelxible.

    I've been giving some very serious thought to home schooling my sons, for the last two years. I really am not at all interested in handing my children over to their curriculum.


    well said!
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Alex_Coe wrote:
    EDIT: Regarding the above, if you do well on the standardized test then it;s likely you learned something.
    ...
    Unfortunately... it's possible that all you've learned was how to pass the test.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Unfortunately... it's possible that all you've learned was how to pass the test.

    Glancing at the average intellengence in this country...it's a high possiblity.

    Screw the dancers, writers, musicians, poets and artists...we have test takers!
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Glancing at the average intellengence in this country...it's a high possiblity.

    Screw the dancers, writers, musicians, poets and artists...we have test takers!
    ...
    Seriously... because there are monetary rewards attached to higher test scores for school districts... I can see school administrators instructing their teachers to teach the kids how to get higher overall scores. This includes telling the 'dumber' kids to stay home on test day.
    The schools that get the higher scores are rewarded... when, if you think about it... the ones that need the help are the schools with the lower scores. That's if the testing was administered fairly and school administrators and teachers were honest.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Seriously... because there are monetary rewards attached to higher test scores for school districts... I can see school administrators instructing their teachers to teach the kids how to get higher overall scores. This includes telling the 'dumber' kids to stay home on test day.
    The schools that get the higher scores are rewarded... when, if you think about it... the ones that need the help are the schools with the lower scores. That's if the testing was administered fairly and school administrators and teachers were honest.


    actually, the more kids that take the score, the better the school looks. they counter this by constantly and relentlessly drilling us on how to take the FCAT, what it'll look like, eliminating choices, making educated guess...etc.
  • frgntoadfrgntoad Posts: 77
    This was really an inspiring presentation!

    http://opposingdigits.com/vlog/?p=1843

    "A must-see for every parent and teacher. Education guru Sir Ken Robinson makes an entertaining (and profoundly moving) case for creating an education system that nurtures creativity, rather than undermining it. Sir Ken Robinson is author of “Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative,” and a leading expert on innovation in education and business."


    I feel that schools do hurt a child's creative side. Little Johnny is told to color the dog brown or black in first grade because that is what a dog is to look like. If Little Johnny colors the dog purple or blue, he is made to feel taht he has made a mistake, and has to correct it. What if Little Johnny just wanted a purple dog that day? What was the harm in letting him be creative? There is a time and place for everything, even school.
    I am a loser with high self esteem......
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Glancing at the average intellengence in this country...it's a high possiblity.

    Screw the dancers, writers, musicians, poets and artists...we have test takers!


    Which manifests itself in the behavior or lack of action by a lot of Americans.

    I know you have, but this is a rhetorical question. Have you noticed fewer and fewer people in this country seem incapable of thinking for themselves or thinking outside the box?

    Fewer and fewer people seem to need someone to tell them what to do or how to react, in just about every situation?

    It'a all such a narrow road which spills into one culdesac of a corporate-approved (or dictated) mindest.
  • frgntoad wrote:
    I feel that schools do hurt a child's creative side. Little Johnny is told to color the dog brown or black in first grade because that is what a dog is to look like. If Little Johnny colors the dog purple or blue, he is made to feel taht he has made a mistake, and has to correct it. What if Little Johnny just wanted a purple dog that day? What was the harm in letting him be creative? There is a time and place for everything, even school.


    'when i was four years old
    they tried to test my i.q.
    they showed me a picture
    of 3 oranges and a pear
    they said,
    which one is different?
    it does not belong
    they taught me different is wrong'
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    actually, the more kids that take the score, the better the school looks. they counter this by constantly and relentlessly drilling us on how to take the FCAT, what it'll look like, eliminating choices, making educated guess...etc.
    ...
    It sounds like those 'Contractor's Licenses Schools' that advertise on the radio. They don't teach you how to become a (Construction) Contractor... they teach you how to get a passing grade on the State's Licensing Exam. I don't know... but, I want a contractor that knows how to run electrical wires through my house, than one that knows how to pass the licensing exam.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    'when i was four years old
    they tried to test my i.q.
    they showed me a picture
    of 3 oranges and a pear
    they said,
    which one is different?
    it does not belong
    they taught me different is wrong'
    ...
    It's the one that makes the picture interesting.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    'when i was four years old
    they tried to test my i.q.
    they showed me a picture
    of 3 oranges and a pear
    they said,
    which one is different?
    it does not belong
    they taught me different is wrong'


    Didn't take, did it.:D

    Because you dared to think for yourself and develope your own thought process, perceptions and opinions.

    My grandmother always thought me to question everything and everyone. Except for her:D;)
  • Alex_CoeAlex_Coe Posts: 762
    Did you watch the presentation on the link? We are all aware they have art class and pe


    I don't have to read the link to make up my mind. I've already decided the issue without the help of the video.
  • Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    It's the one that makes the picture interesting.

    It's so obvious the picture had too many oranges! :p
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • NMyTree wrote:
    Didn't take, did it.:D

    Because you dared to think for yourself and develope your own thought process, perceptions and opinions.

    My grandmother always thought me to question everything and everyone. Except for her:D;)

    That was an Ani quote. :D

    My grandmother was a lot like that, too.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Alex_Coe wrote:
    I don't have to read the link to make up my mind. I've already decided the issue without the help of the video.

    So you've learned all there is know about the subject? Interesting.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Alex_CoeAlex_Coe Posts: 762
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Unfortunately... it's possible that all you've learned was how to pass the test.


    Well, at least in my school, the test will ask you everything you need to know.

    For example, if the test asks you to convert this sentence to French, then it's at least an adequate indicator of "do you get it".

    I hear people say it all the time: passing the math test doesn't mena you can do math" or some similar subject. Yeah, it's a problem. But what's your counter-proposal? Give kids a pill full of knowledge?
  • Alex_CoeAlex_Coe Posts: 762
    So you've learned all there is know about the subject? Interesting.


    I took a look at the video... I think i've seen this before. In fact, I'm almost positive. We have this same thread every week or so. I heard a LOT of the same things. All the whiners in this thread (no one in particular) are simply parroting the content in the video.
  • Alex_Coe wrote:
    I took a look at the video... I think i've seen this before. In fact, I'm almost positive. We have this same thread every week or so. I heard a LOT of the same things. All the whiners in this thread (no one in particular) are simply parroting the content in the video.

    I must have missed those threads. Hmmm
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Alex_Coe wrote:
    Well, at least in my school, the test will ask you everything you need to know.

    For example, if the test asks you to convert this sentence to French, then it's at least an adequate indicator of "do you get it".

    I hear people say it all the time: passing the math test doesn't mena you can do math" or some similar subject. Yeah, it's a problem. But what's your counter-proposal? Give kids a pill full of knowledge?
    ...
    How 'bout this... try TEACHING them the subjects. Teach the fundamentals when they are young... how to read and write and basic math.
    And yeah... test them. but, how about also giving them aptittude tests to see how they relate to subjects. I mean, a high school kid that can tear apart and rebuild a motorcycle can probably contribute to society as an adult as a mechanic... why does he need to know Shakespeare if he doesn't give a damn about Shakespeare? We will always need mechanics to fix our cars and we will always need plumbers to fix our toilets. Maybe a parallel training path for kids that'll be the ones fixing your car... where he will learn about diagnosing that knocking sound coming from your left front wheel and not have to worry about getting an 'F' because he didn't understand 'Beowoulf'.
    And seriously... most adults can get by in life without understanding or applying algebra in their day to day affairs... when was the last time you had to factor out a quadratic equation at work? That's why God created calculators.
    ...
    And maybe they should focus on practical things too... so we don't have these bi-lingual French Majors with $25,453.43 in Credit Card debt because he hasn't got a clue on how credit Cards work.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Alex_Coe wrote:
    I took a look at the video... I think i've seen this before. In fact, I'm almost positive. We have this same thread every week or so. I heard a LOT of the same things. All the whiners in this thread (no one in particular) are simply parroting the content in the video.


    I'm giving you first hand experience less than three years old. I didnt even watch the video.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    NMyTree wrote:
    Which manifests itself in the behavior or lack of action by a lot of Americans.

    I know you have, but this is a rhetorical question. Have you noticed fewer and fewer people in this country seem incapable of thinking for themselves or thinking outside the box?

    Fewer and fewer people seem to need someone to tell them what to do or how to react, in just about every situation?

    It'a all such a narrow road which spills into one culdesac of a corporate-approved (or dictated) mindest.


    have you read 'dumbing us down'? it's a really good book! he won teh new york city and state teacher of the year awards

    in it he says the literacy rate was higher before mandatory schooling and corporations like sears & roebuck made the first mass school systems....

    http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
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