Do Schools Kill Creativity?

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  • cornnifer wrote:
    BAM! There it is!

    Oh, I know what I'm talking about.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

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  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    frgntoad wrote:
    I feel that schools do hurt a child's creative side. Little Johnny is told to color the dog brown or black in first grade because that is what a dog is to look like. If Little Johnny colors the dog purple or blue, he is made to feel taht he has made a mistake, and has to correct it. What if Little Johnny just wanted a purple dog that day? What was the harm in letting him be creative? There is a time and place for everything, even school.

    when my 18 year old was in kindergarten her teacher brought to my attention that little mia couldn't keep her colouring within the lines nor could she cut ON the line. i looked at her teacher and said, 'and?...is that it?' besides the fact that she's just 5 years old, she's left handed which makes it rather difficult to use the right handed scissors. for the remainder of the school year i dismissed everything else that teacher had to say.
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  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    I think time should infact be taken away from the 'cores'. They are mostly just repeated year after year and are meaningless to the child. There should be more time spent of the arts, creavite writing, dance, etc....divide classes up and let the invidual choose which subject interests them and let them run with. You can never force someone to be interested in something they simply aren't. That just creates boredom and a disinterest in school. Give them a reason to want to come to school and enjoy what they are being taught.You can't get a child to learn by ramming it down their throats. There needs to be flexibility and the opportunity for the childs voice to be heard. Find a nice balance between the fundamentals and the child's own aspirations.

    ah the utopian school sytem.
    i agree, you cant force children to learn something they have no interest in. but on the other hand, they have to have the basics otherwise all the dancing in the world is not going to provide a foundation for future learning. children simply can not dance their way through life. isnt that what elementary/primary school is for? to learn the basics so they can be built upon in future years?
    as for having the child's voice be heard. how about we abolish sport in the younger school and turn that over to creativity. or give the children a choice between sport and the creative arts.
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  • ah the utopian school sytem.
    i agree, you cant force children to learn something they have no interest in. but on the other hand, they have to have the basics otherwise all the dancing in the world is not going to provide a foundation for future learning. children simply can not dance their way through life. isnt that what elementary/primary school is for? to learn the basics so they can be built upon in future years?
    as for having the child's voice be heard. how about we abolish sport in the younger school and turn that over to creativity. or give the children a choice between sport and the creative arts.


    I think there can be a better balance of the basics and the arts or even sports...some children are naturally drawn to running, playing ball, etc. I just think the curriculum is too strict and rigid to encourage individuality and a strong sense of self.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    I think there can be a better balance of the basics and the arts or even sports...some children are naturally drawn to running, playing ball, etc. I just think the curriculum is too strict and rigid to encourage individuality and a strong sense of self.

    it is difficult for me to be unbiased when it comes to this. i had a very strong sense of self and that was because i was a smart kid. there was nothing i couldn't learn or that i thought was beyond me. i still have a residual arrogance from in that i think that if i know something then the person i'm talking to should know it too. but i'm working on that cause OMG!! i have since found out i dont know everything. :D but when i was younger, and this still applies,(sometimes to my detriment) i was as curious as the proverbial cat, so learning came easy to me. and it was learning about ANYTHING. something that still applies today. i will go off on tangents and not return to base for ages. though perhaps that says more about my mercurial nature and daydreaminess than anything else. :)
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  • it is difficult for me to be unbiased when it comes to this. i had a very strong sense of self and that was because i was a smart kid. there was nothing i couldn't learn or that i thought was beyond me. i still have a residual arrogance from in that i think that if i know something then the person i'm talking to should know it too. but i'm working on that cause OMG!! i have since found out i dont know everything. :D but when i was younger, and this still applies,(sometimes to my detriment) i was as curious as the proverbial cat, so learning came easy to me. and it was learning about ANYTHING. something that still applies today. i will go off on tangents and not return to base for ages. though perhaps that says more about my mercurial nature and daydreaminess than anything else. :)

    Yeah, I was much the same as that. I spent so much time at school day dreaming and feeling bored. School often seemed redundant. I just feel that so many children feel this way and the some of the time they spend at school could be spent being stimulated and building on their natural skills and talents.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Yeah, I was much the same as that. I spent so much time at school day dreaming and feeling bored. School often seemed redundant. I just feel that so many children feel this way and the some of the time they spend at school could be spent being stimulated and building on their natural skills and talents.

    oh i was stimulated. my main motivation was beating the boys. :D but then around 14, boys took on a whole different meaning and well... i'm still trying to recover from that. ;):D but also around 14 i discovered that there was another half to me. i started writing and have yet to stop. :)
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  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    Interesting thread, abook. The video raised some very pertinent points. I am somewhat on the fence about my public school experience. I had some pretty dull teachers, but I also had teachers that inspired me and left quite an indelible mark.

    I think those that hold creativity in high regard and are creative themselves possess the ability to reach into another's soul through an external means, to bring out emotions, to create that which inspires others. Creativity is so important. A little bit of creativity mixed with talent goes a long way and produces amazing things. I would add that creativity is equally important in the 'core' subjects. Great scientists and inventors have very creative minds as well. The difference between someone who just cranks out data and a true master of a discipline is creativity and imagination!
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • duffyduffy Posts: 74
    This was really an inspiring presentation!

    http://opposingdigits.com/vlog/?p=1843

    "A must-see for every parent and teacher. Education guru Sir Ken Robinson makes an entertaining (and profoundly moving) case for creating an education system that nurtures creativity, rather than undermining it. Sir Ken Robinson is author of “Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative,” and a leading expert on innovation in education and business."



    my first reaction is to say yes, they do. at least the schools i went to. the spoiled brats being raised now have everything stroked and nurtured, however.
    mostly what schools do is kill 10 hours of a day. 9 hours are roll-call and getting to and fro a class, and the rest was crap too. lol
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    duffy wrote:
    my first reaction is to say yes, they do. at least the schools i went to. the spoiled brats being raised now have everything stroked and nurtured, however.
    mostly what schools do is kill 10 hours of a day. 9 hours are roll-call and getting to and fro a class, and the rest was crap too. lol

    10 hours?! holy shit! our kids are at school from around 9am until around 3pm. that's 6 hours. minus lunch and recess and there's not much time left for learning, let alone creativity.
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  • AstroFanAstroFan Posts: 193
    I loved to read at a young age, and was pretty good at it for my level.

    At the school library there was a section of books for each grade level and we were all supposed to read a certain amount of those books and answer 10 questions(multiple choice) on a computer to receive a certain grade in Reading. In around 4th or 5th grade, I was at the school library reading 'The Killer Angels'(About the battle of Gettysburg; I loved history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Killer_Angels ), but I was supposed to be reading some crap 30 page book with a drab storyline.

    The librarian took the Pulitzer Prize winning novel from my hands(didn't even let me bookmark it. Bitch.), and told me to go find one of those childrens books that put me to sleep. Incidents like that really hurt my interest in reading for a few years, but I picked it back up again(after no longer attending that school, if it matters. Thankfully I got out).



    I never did finish the book, but now I feel like I should.


    EDIT: OH GOD. How could I forget to mention the worst teacher I ever had. In the first half of 4th grade I had the biggest motivational killer I could ever imagine. With her class, I went from getting A's and B's in everything, to almost failing in two subjects.

    For example, one time a classmate asked a question because he didn't understand what she was teaching, and she yelled at him for not paying attention. I don't think she ever did answer his question.

    Another time she assigned us math homework, and I can specifically remember her saying "If you don't know what to do..., read the directions" ... I may have been in 4th grade, but I think everybody knew we were supposed to read directions. Apparently she didn't know she was actually supposed to teach the class.

    Because of that one teacher, my parents took me out of public school and put me in the private school that I originally talked about.



    I'm in my first semester of college now and my English professor is a tough SOB. I don't have any complaints about it though because I get the impression that he actually wants us to learn something, and it's keeping me interested. I would much rather have a mean teacher than a lazy one.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    This was really an inspiring presentation!

    http://opposingdigits.com/vlog/?p=1843

    "A must-see for every parent and teacher. Education guru Sir Ken Robinson makes an entertaining (and profoundly moving) case for creating an education system that nurtures creativity, rather than undermining it. Sir Ken Robinson is author of “Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative,” and a leading expert on innovation in education and business."

    20 minutes is too long, but i fully support sweeping overhauls of the education system. the current system is broke and beyond repair. education is not a product that can be packaged and distributed in a one-size-fits-all formula.
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    10 hours?! holy shit! our kids are at school from around 9am until around 3pm. that's 6 hours. minus lunch and recess and there's not much time left for learning, let alone creativity.

    We were in school eight or seven hours. Seven or eight 50 minute classes. After the first two "hours" (100 minutes) there was recess for about 10 minutes then the next two "hours", then lunchtime, which was one hour. And then we had the three remaining "hours" without recess. Sometimes four "hours" but with recess. And of course there are plenty of school where there was no school on Wednesday afternoons. Not mine, though.
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  • Carlos DCarlos D Posts: 638
    From my own personal experience I have to say that private schools kill creativity more than Catholic schools,at least here in Ireland.I went to a Catholic run school for 5 years and then had to repeat my final year this year in a private school and I never could have imagined such a mechanical approach to education,you were expected to study from 9-7 Monday to Saturday in a tiny 5 room building and what really amazed me was how you hear people talking about how uniforms supress individuality etc.Well in privatte schools here there's no individuality,there's no uniform yet the personalities are virtally all the same,all spoilt boring rich kids.The teachers shout you down if you express an opinion contrary to their own(I tried telling a teacher once she was wrong to invent bullshit stories about how 'evil' America is and I nearly got expelled) and for the most part I don't think I ever heard one inelligent independent thought expressed by any students.
    The opposite was true for my old school,it wasn't an amazing school by any means but at least people were allowed to develop as a human being.
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  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    The question is what role do you want schools to have in your kids' lives?

    I'm not looking for school to replace my role in my kid's life or replace his own curiosity. It's where I want him to learn to read, write, arithmetic, learn how to learn so he can support himself to the level he wants to be at when he's an adult. School is just 6 hours of at least 14 waking hours a day plus he has all weekend. There's more than enough time for me and him to find ways to dive into his curiosity and creativity.

    The thing I'm sick of is people wanting schools to become this great social equalizer, dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator so that all feel equal and none excel. Making some great social experiment of education. Making school and government the focal point of people from birth through to death. Minimizing the role of family because some people have shitty families and they feel that school and government should become the replacement. Wanting and expanded role for government in just about all facets of our lives while complaining about government corruption.
    “One good thing about music,
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  • surferdude wrote:
    The question is what role do you want schools to have in your kids' lives?

    I'm not looking for school to replace my role in my kid's life or replace his own curiosity. It's where I want him to learn to read, write, arithmetic, learn how to learn so he can support himself to the level he wants to be at when he's an adult. School is just 6 hours of at least 14 waking hours a day plus he has all weekend. There's more than enough time for me and him to find ways to dive into his curiosity and creativity.

    The thing I'm sick of is people wanting schools to become this great social equalizer, dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator so that all feel equal and none excel. Making some great social experiment of education. Making school and government the focal point of people from birth through to death. Minimizing the role of family because some people have shitty families and they feel that school and government should become the replacement. Wanting and expanded role for government in just about all facets of our lives while complaining about government corruption.


    Before you go off on a rant you should read through the thread. Plenty of great points have been made concerning the video and you haven't mentioned any of them.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    Before you go off on a rant you should read through the thread. Plenty of great points have been made concerning the video and you haven't mentioned any of them.
    Why are you tring to deprive me of fun???? Were we married in a past life or something??? Now you want me to stop and think!!!! You know, your mother is right. If you keep this instistant nagging up you'll never get married.

    Good call Abook. I'll try to watch the video tonite. But my initial question is bang on. What role do you want school to have in kids lives?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • surferdude wrote:
    Why are you tring to deprive me of fun???? Were we married in a past life or something??? Now you want me to stop and think!!!! You know, your mother is right. If you keep this instistant nagging up you'll never get married.

    Good call Abook. I'll try to watch the video tonite. But my initial question is bang on. What role do you want school to have in kids lives?

    LOL! I'm still laughing...:D

    I want schools to benefit each child and their own uniqueness. Let them grow into individuals with different approaches and ways of solving things. Some children learn differently and excel at very different things. I don't want some children's 6 hours to be well spent while the other's 6 hours is spent being bored and daydreaming. There can be a better balance on the time children spend at schools...most of the 3R's is just repeated year after year anyways.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    LOL! I'm still laughing...:D

    I want schools to benefit each child and their own uniqueness. Let them grow into individuals with different approaches and ways of solving things. Some children learn differently and excel at very different things. I don't want some children's 6 hours to be well spent while the other's 6 hours is spent being bored and daydreaming. There can be a better balance on the time children spend at schools...most of the 3R's is just repeated year after year anyways.

    i think the curriculum needs is to expand on those basic skills. as a child progresses through his school life, the work gets more complex and challenging. kids get bored easily we all know that. let's help them stay engaged in the learning process.


    ps. ive spent my entire life daydreaming. :)
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  • i think the curriculum needs is to expand on those basic skills. as a child progresses through his school life, the work gets more complex and challenging. kids get bored easily we all know that. let's help them stay engaged in the learning process.


    ps. ive spent my entire life daydreaming. :)

    I just don't think schools are covering enough to suit the needs of the vast majority of children. The basics are easily taught and mastered by those who are into that kind of learning. All I'm saying is there is equal opportunity to provide those who don't flourish in the areas with the type of learning they can really get into.

    Oh, I love daydreaming and I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying there is room to provide those minds with more stimulation and outlets to express themselves and show off their highly creative nature. They can build upon those skills and have the chance to become great...genuises in their field even, given the proper encouragement, setting and environment that nutures this kind of learning instead of putting it off and down playing it.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    I just don't think schools are covering enough to suit the needs of the vast majority of children. The basics are easily taught and mastered by those who are into that kind of learning. All I'm saying is there is equal opportunity to provide those who don't flourish in the areas with the type of learning they can really get into.

    Oh, I love daydreaming and I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying there is room to provide those minds with more stimulation and outlets to express themselves and show off their highly creative nature. They can build upon those skills and have the chance to become great...genuises in their field even, given the proper encouragement, setting and environment that nutures this kind of learning instead of putting it off and down playing it.

    perhaps what is needed is more performing arts schools, more alternate schools that get equal funding from the governments.
    i also think that it is up to the families of these children to encourage their creativity. to provide the outlets necessary. it should never be left solely or even primarily, to the education system to fulfill a childs needs where imagination is concerned. i think as societies we need to see artistic pursuits in the same light as the physical pursuits. encourage the budding mark rothkos, stephen kings and van goghs as well as the gladiators.
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  • perhaps what is needed is more performing arts schools, more alternate schools that get equal funding from the governments.
    i also think that it is up to the families of these children to encourage their creativity. to provide the outlets necessary. it should never be left solely or even primarily, to the education system to fulfill a childs needs where imagination is concerned. i think as societies we need to see artistic pursuits in the same light as the physical pursuits. encourage the budding mark rothkos, stephen kings and van goghs as well as the gladiators.


    I'm not saying this role should be solely on the educational system at all. I just think that this kind of nurturing needs to be inside the ed system as well as the home life...just as parents are supposed to encourage reading and problem solving in the home. I think if we don't address this and school continue to undermine a child's creative potential we will as a society continue to see a decline in orginality and ingenuity.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    I'm not saying this role should be solely on the educational system at all. I just think that this kind of nurturing needs to be inside the ed system as well as the home life...just as parents are supposed to encourage reading and problem solving in the home. I think if we don't address this and school continue to undermine a child's creative potential we will as a society continue to see a decline in orginality and ingenuity.

    as a parent i already am a teacher. but you know what? i can't wait to be a teacher in a school. :D
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  • as a parent i already am a teacher. but you know what? i can't wait to be a teacher in a school. :D

    :)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
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