Anyone watching Chavez's UN speech right now?

MrBrian

zstillings wrote:

Damn that guy for causing a hurricane.

Please don't act like I think that.

No person thinks bush caused it, so for you to joke about people thinking that is silly, it is however a fact that it did happen while he was president and regardless of the ineffectiveness of local government, the federal government does have a job to protect all it's citizens, perhaps if money and effort was not being wasted on the war and perhaps if we had leaders who cared more we would've seen better results post katrina. Look at those areas now, a year later, still no results, yes the mayor they have is a waste of time, but at what point does the leader of the free world come into play? at what point do the so called leaders who allowed billions and billions of dollars to get wasted on a war take responsibilty for the problems we face here at home?

and again, the question was about living under bush and living under chavez.

Purple Hawk

MrBrian wrote:

Please don't act like I think that.

No person thinks bush caused it, so for you to joke about people thinking that is silly, it is however a fact that it did happen while he was president and regardless of the ineffectiveness of local government, the federal government does have a job to protect all it's citizens, perhaps if money and effort was not being wasted on the war

You had me until that point....but again, the obsession with George W Bush comes forth.

MrBrian

Purple Hawk wrote:

You had me until that point....but again, the obsession with George W Bush comes forth.

yes but when the question did involve george bush,

nevertheless, let's move on.

Purple Hawk

MrBrian wrote:

yes but when the question did involve george bush,

nevertheless, let's move on.

yes, let's

MrBrian

so is that chavez vid on You Tube yet? Oh and did anyone catch the iranian leader on anderson 360?

MrBrian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-c5PPIEziA

RainDog

zstillings wrote:

Damn that guy for causing a hurricane.

If he could cause hurricanes, I'd be scared shitless - especially for the North East.

No. Damn that guy for thinking a hurricane is nothing more than a summer shower.

RainDog

Purple Hawk wrote:

You had me until that point....but again, the obsession with George W Bush comes forth.

So, are you implying that lots of money and soldiers aren't currently being used for war? Recovery effort aside - the rescue effort alone probably would have gone a lot smother if we'd kept our shit at home ready for a real threat.

And say what you want about the mayor - the guy bugs me too - but a police force alone is not capable of handling a disaster of Katrina's magnitude.

inmytree

zstillings wrote:

Damn that guy for causing a hurricane.

I think Chavez said Katrina was a terrible thing...therefore, since Chavez mentioned it, Katrina never happend....

floyd1975

inmytree wrote:

I think Chavez said Katrina was a terrible thing...therefore, since Chavez mentioned it, Katrina never happend....

No, I think you would not say it was a terrible thing had Chavez not said that.

macgyver06

farfromglorified wrote:

Kind of all over the place here....

First, two countries who are destroying each other are not "Enlightened" or "Enlightening". They are the opposite of that. Furthermore, "worldism" is not a default, meaning that it cannot grow out of the simple destruction of nationalism.

Bush certainly states that "freedom will always prevail" and he contradicts this by his violence and war. But contradiction and nationalism are not the same thing.

The world or "we" will not become more enlightened. Some will, some will not. Conflicts will arise from that. The world will never adopt the words of Paine as a whole until people simply stop rejecting each others' will with force. That goes for George Bush v. terrorists, and it goes for you v. George Bush.

A doctrine of "worldism" will still dictate that an individual is subservient to his neighbor, therefore placing his will in opposition to his neighbor's. All you're doing is expanding the influence of that subservience and making it stronger. In other words, you're suggesting that we lighten the load by adding a ton of bricks.

"Worldism" is not the answer to the ills of nationalism. Individualism, on the other hand, is. Societies that put the will of their members above the fantasy-will of their collective are the ones that will no longer suffer the injustices of nationalism.

it was Locke who said.. A minority Rebelling is A rebellion against the People. A rebellion against the Authority means the authorty has betrayed the trust installed in them by the people.

and also, an enlightening country can still war and have flaws. Its a long process.

Individualism and Worldism are in hand in hand i believe.

wait is there actually such thing as WOrldism already?

farfromglorified

macgyver06 wrote:

it was Locke who said.. A minority Rebelling is A rebellion against the People. A rebellion against the Authority means the authorty has betrayed the trust installed in them by the people.

and also, an enlightening country can still war and have flaws. Its a long process.

Individualism and Worldism are in hand in hand i believe.

wait is there actually such thing as WOrldism already?

Individualism and Worldism are not hand in hand if Worldism prescribes conformity to a specific set of ideals that subjugates a man to his neighbors.

The "long process" you speak of is one that eliminates wars, not one that suffers them.

There is such a thing as worldism. Its capital is at 760 United Nations Plaza in New York.

macgyver06

farfromglorified wrote:

Individualism and Worldism are not hand in hand if Worldism prescribes conformity to a specific set of ideals that subjugates a man to his neighbors.

The "long process" you speak of is one that eliminates wars, not one that suffers them.

There is such a thing as worldism. Its capital is at 760 United Nations Plaza in New York.

than disregard my posts on worldism..lol ... i created this 4 days ago..didnt know the name was taken...what im talking about will be called 'the macgyver way' or something

macgyver06

''he that would make his own liberty free, must guard even his enemy from opressions, failure to do this, sets a precedent that will reach to himself''

-Paine

Drew263

Chavez does great things with all that oil money...here's proof.

http://www.bized.ac.uk/images/slums.jpg

We should all listen to him. He cares about the people.

El_Kabong

Drew263 wrote:

ahhh Chavez...quite the humanitarian he is...poor citizens but filthy rich gov't. I guess a billion a month or so in oil revenue isn't enough to do something for his country besides by weapons.

yea socialism!!!!!

as compared to what this administration <or most of them, really> do for the ppl?

not apologizing or building chavez up, just saying we don't have much room to talk when we constantly cut social spending while dumping trillions on needless wars and when trillions just end up missing

El_Kabong

thanks some interesting articles

reborncareerist wrote:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13989898/site/newsweek/

' To end the rot, he declared, "a bomb should be put in the Palace of Justice." '

wow, that's pretty hardcore!

'Chávez has lavished government largesse on a plethora of welfare programs mostly devoid of parliamentary oversight or any other supervision. Not surprisingly, vast sums of money have stuck to the wrong hands, and most polls show that corruption now ranks among the top three concerns of ordinary citizens. "Only 18 percent of voters think the government is resolving the issue," '


'Mindful of the parallels that critics can draw to the kleptocracy that preceded his ascent, Chávez has OK'd a few high-profile investigations led by a congressional audit commission. He personally has not set the most inspiring of examples; several family members occupy choice government posts. '

let's hope no hurricanes hit

'despite a 50 percent increase in farm credits issued by Fondafa last year, the number of hectares planted nationwide rose by a paltry 1.4 percent, according to official figures. Investigators are fingering corrupt bureaucrats in cahoots with rural business interests, who have allegedly channeled Fondafa credits into phantom agricultural cooperatives. As a result, food imports have soared to record levels. '

that sounds kinda familiar, like how the major agro-businesses get a majority of the aid here

'a multimillion-dollar influx of new agricultural credits. Instead of going to local farmers, many of the new loans wound up in the bank accounts of unscrupulous landowners, who formed bogus cooperatives by collecting signatures and personal data from Zaraza residents in exchange for a $2,000 payoff. Among the willing volunteers were some of the town's prostitutes......Estimates of the sums stolen from Fondafa hover in the $65 million range. '

i was going to ask if there was a possible way that maybe he was just unaware of how bad it was but, then...

reborncareerist wrote:

http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=americas&c=venezu

Venezuela: Court Orders Trial of Civil Society Leaders
Venezuela: Curbs on Free Expression Tightened<'stifle press criticism of government authorities and restrict the public’s ability to monitor government actions'>
Venezuela: Chávez Allies Pack Supreme Court <wow, bush only got 2, he got 12!>
Venezuela: Media Law Undercuts Freedom of Expression

El_Kabong

RainDog wrote:

I guess we'll find out. I must say I had better hopes for the guy - but, then, it's not my country. I've read a while back that there's an election in December, and that he's polling at about 60%. However, I also read that the main reason he stands to clean house is because the opposition is disparate and can't seem to get their act together (which sounds very familiar to me). Oh, and that the most recognized opposition candidate is a comedian.

All in all, I'd say from my distant outsider's perspective, he's Bush - only Left-Wing style. Kung-Fu vs. the Drunken Boxer - flip a coin to decide which title fits which.

..........................

El_Kabong

truroute wrote:

Chavez and his 5 yr old rhetoric:

Is it "courage"?

or is it simply "Attention Whore-ism"

-as in "Look at me, Im publicly calling the US president the Devil. Im a certified bad ass."

or maybe he's just really sick of us policy in that region for a few decades...don't forget cheney, rummy, wolfowitz, perle, addington, negroponte...all were running around creating our own mass graves and death squads down thataways in the 80's and 90's

El_Kabong

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

"Freedom, by its nature, cannot be imposed. It must be chosen. From Beirut to Baghdad, people are making the choice for freedom." G.W Bush

Everytime I hear this man speak I think of how full of sh*t he really is.....he can go in the same bucket alongside Chavez.....

no shit, eh? doesn't more than 3/4 of iraq see us occupiers and want us to leave???