why do you believe in God or...

Collin

sweetpotato wrote:

i think there's truth to the phrase, "there are no atheists in foxholes", meaning that when the shit hits the fan, most people will find themselves praying to something, someONE, hoping that their prayers will at least not be in vain. i know that's been true in my case as well.

I disagree. There are plenty of atheists in foxholes, literally and figuratively.

Of course many atheists will also hope they'll survive, or be saved or whatever... it doesn't mean they believe in god or pray to god. Hoping that you'll stay alive isn't exactly something spiritual, it's just your basic instinct, I think.

deadnothingbetter

Collin wrote:

He said god told him to do it.

Again playing the devil's advocate here but why should I believe someone else, someone who does wonderful things when he says god told him to do it but not this guy?

well, then it depends which god you speak of.

LikeAnOcean

I try to keep an open mind.. anything is possible. I'll take it as it comes.

Collin

deadnothingbetter wrote:

well, then it depends which god you speak of.

Any god. I think it's pretty obvious this guy was referring to the christian god.

But the same question could be asked about a muslim terrorist, for example, who says allah told him to kill the infidels.

deadnothingbetter

Collin wrote:

Any god. I think it's pretty obvious this guy was referring to the christian god.

But the same question could be asked about a muslim terrorist, for example, who says allah told him to kill the infidels.

then i wouldn't buy it if it were the christian god. cause i spoke to him last night. and he said he didn't tell him... and i believe him cause the christian God is perfect. he never lies. bet you can't argue with that?

writersu

sweetpotato wrote:

wow. when laura posted this, i'm not sure how many of us read it or even realized how bad it was for her at that time. but i can honestly say that, though i certainly have never faced what she was facing, i have had times in my life when sadness seemed to be the prevailing emotion and it was only because i was a mother that i knew i needed to hang on and get through it. i've never been suicidal, but i have had fleeting thoughts of running away somewhere and just hiding from the emotional pain.

i think there's truth to the phrase, "there are no atheists in foxholes", meaning that when the shit hits the fan, most people will find themselves praying to something, someONE, hoping that their prayers will at least not be in vain. i know that's been true in my case as well.

anyway, i still miss hippiemom. i hope there is an afterlife, and that she's lying back relaxing and enjoying herself. peace, laura.

Yeah, I never knew her other than to see her name----these past few weeks I have actually connected to people here finally. I agree with the foxhole theory; thaT IS SO TRUE. It probably also has a lot to do with the fact that when we are young, we seem so self sufficient and then, some of us anyway, find when we get older, the need for the comfort found from knowing God. again, for some of us that is true; not all.

and in regard to Hippiemom; she is living on every day through all she taught her kids and all she gave to her friends both here and in other places. (not that this was at all mentioned or implied in ANY way whatsoever) but there is no wasted momemts in life if we really live them and listen to what they say. are you familar with the poem "Desiderata"? That is my favorite poem
about life.

Collin

deadnothingbetter wrote:

then i wouldn't buy it if it were the christian god. cause i spoke to him last night. and he said he didn't tell him... and i believe him cause the christian God is perfect. he never lies. bet you can't argue with that?

I can

I saw Jesus at the supermarket yesterday and he told me you were wrong. His dad said so. How about that?

No, but seriously, how can anyone know whether god told this man to do it or not? You can't.
How can anyone know whether god told a person to give up his money to the poor and help the poor for the rest of his life? You can't.

I guess that's why it's faith. There's no proof whatsoever.

deadnothingbetter

Collin wrote:

I can

I saw Jesus at the supermarket yesterday and he told me you were wrong. His dad said so. How about that?

No, but seriously, how can anyone know whether god told this man to do it or not? You can't.
How can anyone know whether god told a person to give up his money to the poor and help the poor for the rest of his life? You can't.

I guess that's why it's faith. There's no proof whatsoever.

no you're right. you can't. it's how faith works. faith that God told him to do it... faith that my God didn't tell him.

brianlux

I have often said (here and elsewhere), that to me God (or god, either way) is an unknown or what I call "mystery". 

Last night I finished reading Jon Krakauer's book, Under the Banner of Heaven.  I found this book difficult and slow going for a number of reasons: a plethora of names to keep track of, disturbing content related to violence and sexual abuse, and confounding reports of people blindly accepting beliefs about things as bizarre as Joseph Smith supposedly finding golden tablets inscribed with messages from God (I want whatever he was smoking- only a very small toke, please!).

But the book is well read (I'm a big Krakauer fan anyway) and I learned a lot from it.  But what really set it apart for me were the words from the very end of the book:

"I happened to find Quinn's argument compelling.  He's convinced me that those who write about religion owe it to their readers to come clean about their own theological frame of reference.  So here is mine:

I don't know what God is, or what God had in mind when the universe was set in motion.  In fact, I don't even know if God exists, although I confess that I sometimes find myself praying in times of great fear, or despair, or astonishment at a display of unexpected beauty.

There are some ten thousand extant religious sects- each with its own cosmology, each with its own answer for the meaning of life and death.  Most assert that the other 9,999 not only have it completely wrong but are instruments of evil, besides.  None of the ten thousand have yet persuaded me to make the requisite leap of faith.  In the absence of conviction, I've come to terms with the fact that uncertainty is an inescapable corollary of life.  An abundance of mystery is simply a part of the bargain- which doesn't strike me as something to lament.  Accepting the essential inscrutability of existence, in any case, is surely preferable to its opposite:  capitulating to the tyranny of intransigent belief.

And if I remain in the dark about our purpose here, and the meaning of eternity, I have nevertheless arrived at an understanding of a few more modest truths:  Most of us fear death.  Most of us yearn to comprehend how we got here, and why- which is to say, most of us ache to know the love of our creator.  And we will no doubt feel that ache, most of us, for as long as we happen to be alive."

-Jon Krakauer, Under the Banner of Heaven,  pp 338-339.

Perfectly stated!

bootlegger10

People believe the entire universe came from something the size of an atom. Let’s face that there is some blind faith in all of us.  

I have been hooked on space talk and documentaries lately.    So interesting.  

bootlegger10

I need to read more.  A great comment by Krakeur.

brianlux

bootlegger10 said:

People believe the entire universe came from something the size of an atom. Let’s face that there is some blind faith in all of us.  

I have been hooked on space talk and documentaries lately.    So interesting.  

People being many physicists who hypothesize that "4 billion years ago the entire observable universe was roughly a million billion billion times smaller than a single atom and has been expanding ever since, to its current size of something like 100 billion galaxies."  Incomprehensible!

bootlegger10 said:

I need to read more.  A great comment by Krakeur.

Indeed!  His most popular books are well known but his first book is great as well- actually one of my favorites of his- Eiger Dreams.

josevolution

I don’t believe there’s some supreme being sitting on a cloud watching the world go down the toilet , I believe in here/now ..

Spiritual_Chaos

josevolution said:

I believe in here/now ..

https://youtu.be/i703eaI2bnI

cutz

https://youtu.be/nlJwO664WLI

HughFreakingDillon

the only knowing is in death itself, which is ironic, since that information is no longer useful at that point. 

RYME

Ultimately there is is a right and a wrong answer.  So if there is 10,000+ different religions + all the seculars.  Roughly 12 Billion different souls have inhabited this Earth so far.  So about 12 billion different interpretations and opinions.
To each his or her own.
But There is a Black & White answer.
One of these days we will all find out.

brianlux

RYME said:

Ultimately there is is a right and a wrong answer.  So if there is 10,000+ different religions + all the seculars.  Roughly 12 Billion different souls have inhabited this Earth so far.  So about 12 billion different interpretations and opinions.
To each his or her own.
But There is a Black & White answer.
One of these days we will all find out.

I've read variously that between 107 and 108 billion people have ever lived making the possible number of interpretations even higher, RYME (although many people believe much the same as others within the particular religious sect to which they belong).  The fact that there are so many interpretations to the meaning of spirituality alone points for me toward my own belief which is that it is one, big, huge, glorious mystery.  I suspect that it is the tendency of humans to shy away from uncertainty and unknowing that lead so many to not be able to accept the idea that God or a higher being is undefinable and unknowing. 

I actually find it more comforting to embrace the unknowing mystery and believe that whatever made this universe come into being,  striving for good is infinitely more worthy than doing evil.

RYME

brianlux said:

RYME said:

Ultimately there is is a right and a wrong answer.  So if there is 10,000+ different religions + all the seculars.  Roughly 12 Billion different souls have inhabited this Earth so far.  So about 12 billion different interpretations and opinions.
To each his or her own.
But There is a Black & White answer.
One of these days we will all find out.

I've read variously that between 107 and 108 billion people have ever lived making the possible number of interpretations even higher, RYME (although many people believe much the same as others within the particular religious sect to which they belong).  The fact that there are so many interpretations to the meaning of spirituality alone points for me toward my own belief which is that it is one, big, huge, glorious mystery.  I suspect that it is the tendency of humans to shy away from uncertainty and unknowing that lead so many to not be able to accept the idea that God or a higher being is undefinable and unknowing. 

I actually find it more comforting to embrace the unknowing mystery and believe that whatever made this universe come into being,  striving for good is infinitely more worthy than doing evil.

Kudos striving for good is always better than evil.
But one of these days, we are all going to get a big time answer when this Mystery Train reaches the end of the line & we won't have to wonder anymore.

HughFreakingDillon

RYME said:

brianlux said:

RYME said:

Ultimately there is is a right and a wrong answer.  So if there is 10,000+ different religions + all the seculars.  Roughly 12 Billion different souls have inhabited this Earth so far.  So about 12 billion different interpretations and opinions.
To each his or her own.
But There is a Black & White answer.
One of these days we will all find out.

I've read variously that between 107 and 108 billion people have ever lived making the possible number of interpretations even higher, RYME (although many people believe much the same as others within the particular religious sect to which they belong).  The fact that there are so many interpretations to the meaning of spirituality alone points for me toward my own belief which is that it is one, big, huge, glorious mystery.  I suspect that it is the tendency of humans to shy away from uncertainty and unknowing that lead so many to not be able to accept the idea that God or a higher being is undefinable and unknowing. 

I actually find it more comforting to embrace the unknowing mystery and believe that whatever made this universe come into being,  striving for good is infinitely more worthy than doing evil.

Kudos striving for good is always better than evil.
But one of these days, we are all going to get a big time answer when this Mystery Train reaches the end of the line & we won't have to wonder anymore.

not if there's nothing. cause then you'll just be dead and you won't have been given any answer at all.