why do you believe in God or...

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  • jorge_cbr
    jorge_cbr Posts: 81
    I think faith is human need, a way to protect one's self esteem!

    We, as humans, are social animals. And as such we need something that regulates our society(ies):
    We invented the Law, but it has flaws;
    We invented ethics, but it also has flaws;
    We invented religion, but it's not tangible.

    Descartes, with his "Cogito ergo sum" theory, said that God was something "a priori", which means that is something embedded in us, in an irrational way!
    Others, like Hume, discarded this. But I think that he had a point, because we need to believe in something that fills the gaps left by rationality. But is error was considering that it had to be God, it doesn't!

    I rather believe in Mankind. Although sometimes it's hard, because of our leaders actions. But I believe in my friends and family, I believe that in a time of need, they will be there for me, as I will be there for them. Because this is the right thing to do.

    The reason I have for not discarding religion is lonelyness: lonely people need something that helps them hold on to life. For these people, religion may be a healthy way to live life.

    Either one chooses to believe in Man or God, the result is the same: dependence. Which is something that is part of us and makes us sociable.

    PS: I'm a western,catholic-raised guy, from a deeply catholic country. So it's possible that some bias is at work in my views. I don't believe in the absolute truth.
    "Death alone from death can save"
    (George McDonald)
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    gue_barium wrote:
    God is a mathematical certainty.

    That's explanation enough, if you ever bother to figure it out. :)

    Where is the math?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    jorge_cbr wrote:
    I think faith is human need, a way to protect one's self esteem!

    I just see this as an appeal to emotion.

    I don't think Descartes' Cogito Ergo Sum means "God exists". I think it means "I exist" "I think therefor I am" or as one of my favorite T-shirts reads "I think therefor I'm single".

    Within the context of Descartes' era it's difficult to conclude his beliefs on God. Perhaps I haven't read enough of him. But he went against the grain in saying that the soul was seated in the brain and not the heart. He was a materialist of sorts.

    My thoughts are that Hume and others see things differently because the knowledge is not a priori. For example, if I say "Aliens exist, you just have to ask yourself." anyone who already believes in aliens will think "He's right, I can feel it." anyone who doesn't will just think "Another quack, I'm outta here." Science is a posteriori fixing this problem.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    catefrances wrote:
    WHAT?!

    are you familiar with pascal? are familiar with his contention that one can not approach the existence and a belief of God the same way in which scientific conclusions are approached. this is what i was getting at. this is why i asked the questions i did. not because im some uneducated dullard. next time you take offense at something, have the commonsense to ask for clarification, don't assume someone is having a go at you just because they do not share your views. and especially not when theyve just acknowledged you politely for correcting them.
    hey look ahnimus... she used common sense. give her that lesson you gave me about common sense. :D
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • mxaaron
    mxaaron Posts: 92
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I just see this as an appeal to emotion.

    I don't think Descartes' Cogito Ergo Sum means "God exists". I think it means "I exist" "I think therefor I am" or as one of my favorite T-shirts reads "I think therefor I'm single"..

    It does mean "I think therefore I am". It is in reference to his search for absolute certainty; he at least could be sure of his own existence, for not even an evil genius could make him doubt that.
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Within the context of Descartes' era it's difficult to conclude his beliefs on God. Perhaps I haven't read enough of him. But he went against the grain in saying that the soul was seated in the brain and not the heart. He was a materialist of sorts..

    Descartes definently believed in God. In fact, he had his own version of the ontological argument, and further used God's existence as proof he was not living in an illusory world created by an evil genius (like the matrix). Read his Meditations, which also contain his discussions about the mind/body.
    Ahnimus wrote:
    My thoughts are that Hume and others see things differently because the knowledge is not a priori. For example, if I say "Aliens exist, you just have to ask yourself." anyone who already believes in aliens will think "He's right, I can feel it." anyone who doesn't will just think "Another quack, I'm outta here." Science is a posteriori fixing this problem.

    Hume was an empiricist, but I doubt he would say we can't obtain any knowledge a priori (like math truths, perhaps). Furthermore, he was skeptical of the notion "the future will be like the past". Science, it seems, relies on that principle...
    Anyway, hope this was informative :)
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    mxaaron wrote:
    It does mean "I think therefore I am". It is in reference to his search for absolute certainty; he at least could be sure of his own existence, for not even an evil genius could make him doubt that.



    Descartes definently believed in God. In fact, he had his own version of the ontological argument, and further used God's existence as proof he was not living in an illusory world created by an evil genius (like the matrix). Read his Meditations, which also contain his discussions about the mind/body.



    Hume was an empiricist, but I doubt he would say we can't obtain any knowledge a priori (like math truths, perhaps). Furthermore, he was skeptical of the notion "the future will be like the past". Science, it seems, relies on that principle...
    Anyway, hope this was informative :)

    I'm not knocking your education, but where do you suppose some may believe themselves to be arriving in this (studied) evolution of philosophy?
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Where is the math?

    Haven't you thought about this one?

    It's fun.
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  • mxaaron
    mxaaron Posts: 92
    gue_barium wrote:
    I'm not knocking your education

    Why would you? I think everything I said was pretty accurate...
    gue_barium wrote:
    but where do you suppose some may believe themselves to be arriving in this (studied) evolution of philosophy?

    What do you mean? I don't agree with Hume, nor do many thinkers after him.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    mxaaron wrote:
    Why would you? I think everything I said was pretty accurate...



    What do you mean? I don't agree with Hume, nor do many thinkers after him.

    Of course you don't.
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Where is the math?

    If you think of God the way you've shared your interpretation on the first page of this post, then the mathematics of man plays a part in there somewhere.

    Follow the white rabbit.
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    mxaaron wrote:
    Why would you? I think everything I said was pretty accurate...



    What do you mean? I don't agree with Hume, nor do many thinkers after him.

    So what's the disagreement?
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  • mxaaron
    mxaaron Posts: 92
    gue_barium wrote:
    Of course you don't.

    Am I missing something here? Was there something in my post that was way off? I just stated (part of) what Descartes and Hume believed, that was all...
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    mxaaron wrote:
    Am I missing something here? Was there something in my post that was way off? I just stated (part of) what Descartes and Hume believed, that was all...

    I understand that you were being informative...
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  • mxaaron
    mxaaron Posts: 92
    gue_barium wrote:
    I understand that you were being informative...

    To think I even put a :) at the end of my post
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    isn't hoping kinda synonymous to believing?
    Hope is synonymous to prayer.

    These religious cults have a monopoly on prayer like getting down on your ritualistic knees to put your ritualistic hands together to say your ritualistic 'dear god' to the ceiling next to your bed, but the truth is is that hope is the fundament of all that nonsense.
    I think it's better to know yourself in order to understand hope/prayer. You don't need a church or a preacher or a god for that.
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    mxaaron wrote:
    To think I even put a :) at the end of my post

    So, are you going to answer about your disagreements to the thinkers?
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  • mxaaron
    mxaaron Posts: 92
    gue_barium wrote:
    So, are you going to answer about your disagreements to the thinkers?

    You mean my disagreement with Hume? I, like many people, would like to think the future will be like the past, and causes do have effects (thus a solid foundation for science), but that doesn't prove Hume wrong...

    Kant has a way of showing that causes can have effects, I think through his distinction between the noumenal and phenomenal worlds (things in themselves and how we experience them). That's a starting point if you want to check it out further; it's 2:45, and I don't feel like digging up my old notebooks. Anyway, hope this helped.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    mxaaron wrote:
    You mean my disagreement with Hume? I, like many people, would like to think the future will be like the past, and causes do have effects (thus a solid foundation for science), but that doesn't prove Hume wrong...

    Kant has a way of showing that causes can have effects, I think through his distinction between the noumenal and phenomenal worlds (things in themselves and how we experience them). That's a starting point if you want to check it out further; it's 2:45, and I don't feel like digging up my old notebooks. Anyway, hope this helped.

    Hmm. Not really. I wanted to know what you think.

    About anything. Or about he whole kit 'n kaboodle. What's your philosophy?
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  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    gue_barium wrote:
    Hope is synonymous to prayer.

    These religious cults have a monopoly on prayer like getting down on your ritualistic knees to put your ritualistic hands together to say your ritualistic 'dear god' to the ceiling next to your bed, but the truth is is that hope is the fundament of all that nonsense.
    I think it's better to know yourself in order to understand hope/prayer. You don't need a church or a preacher or a god for that.
    really? hope is synonymous to prayer?
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    really? hope is synonymous to prayer?

    Hope is the root of ritualistic prayer is what I'm saying, yes. Hope is a prayer.
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