I dont owe the police a goddamn thing. If someone robbed my house at gunpoint, I would rather be shot and killed than call the pigs. They are racist, brutal animals, they certainly arent hanging on my wall of heroes!
what the hell is wrong with you?
you sound like you have some problems
you gotta work on your stereotyping
they call them fingers, but i never see them fing. oh, there they go
In Eugene, a police officer last year, shot and killed a 18 year old high schooler who was out of control and had a knife. So the police couldnt have used a nonlethal weapon on the kid? They couldnt have pepper sprayed him and grabbed the knife from him? Or negotiated a handover of the knife? Or even shot his foot or something and made it a minor wound?
Guess what happened to the cop? Not a damn thing, he was given the Honorary cop of the year award this year. No joke.
So yeah I think I have reason to hate cops.
thats what they are supposed to do in a situation like that.
i do not know anything about this, but if the kid was acting crazy, and seemed to be a threat to another, than the police oficer may have saved an innocent persons life. maybe they could have subdued him nonlethally, but maybe not.
they call them fingers, but i never see them fing. oh, there they go
yes, you are extremely ignorant. you've already admitted you're biased against police so why even continue to argue? a degree in sociology qualifies you to do absolutely nothing. is that why you're so angry? I have a degree in psychology, so I imagine we had some of the same classes and same seminars. and? they're both fairly worthless degrees, sociology even moreso than psychology. at least you can take a psychology degree further and do something clinical with it. your viewing of Menace II Society has any relevance whatsoever? lol, seriously, I can't even argue, you're an ignoramus.
best post in this thread
they call them fingers, but i never see them fing. oh, there they go
There are bad cops and there are good cops, and cops who are everywhere in between. To say they're all brutal pigs or to say they're all defenders of justice is ridiculous either way.
It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
Wow. Just wow. Yeah, instead of a justice system let's just let cops kill whoever they please. I guess if this is the sentiment of some I shouldn't be surprised that many want to give these cops a pass because the general job of a police officer is tough....
That's the point you continue to completely miss.
It's not about giving the cops a pass, it's about putting things into porper perspective and telling the whole story; rather than simply attacking the cops and giving the criminals a pass, as you and several others have been doing.
Several of you are generalizing all cops by the behavior of a relative few that have made big news in the media. And everyone of those incidents are individual incidents with their own stories and set of facts. But you and other's here have no problem depicting police officers as violent, aggressive, maniacs who attack innocent and helpless citizens at the drop of the hat. Which is complete bullshit.
Where's the outrage at the criminals who walked into a crowd and opened fire? Where's that side of the story in all of your bullshit whining and cop bashing?
There are good cops and bad cops. But a large majority of the time cops become aggressive when idiots don't listen and follow their instructions.
Defiance of their instructions is interpreted by Police Officers as a potentially dangerous......maybe life-threatening situation. It's the nature of the job.
If you follow their instructions and communicate in a rational, mature and non-threatening manner; a very large majority of cops will never, ever hurt you or abuse you. That's the facts.
Those we entrust to uphold and enforce our laws should hold themselves to a higher standard than those they must pursue. If police are lawless, who will police them?
I always feared cops for obvious reasons, but my absolute distrust for them was solidified a couple years back. My buddy was assaulted with a 2x4 to the head (during a fight he was not a part of). The assailants fled. The cops came. Since I knew him best the cops wanted to speak with me. I was, at the time, trying to call his mom to let her know her son was going to the ICU... The cops cuffed me, threw me in the back seat of the car, and threw my phone on the front dash. The cop looked me dead in the face and said "There, now try to call his mom." I spent the next three hours in the car without any communication or reason given by the police, and was not able to contact his mom until after this.
The case was subsequently given to a detective who was on vacation. Two weeks later he returned to his desk and found it, and to this day it hasn't been followed up on properly.
Public's best interest at heart? No fucking way. Self absorbed douchebag ego maniacs? Abso-fucking-lutetly.
What a bullshit story. You're obviously excluding a lot of important and significant facts and details.
So there was a large group of people and there was a fight. Your buddy gets hammered with a 2x4 and what happened next? Did the crowd disperse? How many people were left hanging around when the cops arrived?
How many people were involved in this fight?
What did the cop say to you the minute he arrived there? How did he come to the conclusion you knew the victim of the 2X4, best? What instructions did the cops give you upon communication with you? Were you instructed to make no phone calls till they had a chance to talk to you?
Chances are the cops saw you as the possible assailant or someone who knows the assailants. Chances are the cops weren't sure of anything and wanted to get control of the situation. Afterall, there was a fight and your buddy got clobbered with a 2X4. That's not something they take lightly.
My instinct tells me your hiding some pertinent information and trying to paint yourself in a better light, than what the situation really was.
I don't fear cops and I have no problems communicating with them. I used to work with law enforcement officers from several branches of of all kinds (FBI, beat cops, Special Investigations Bureau, Detectives, DEA ...etc).
I knew those guys personally (and still do), as well as professionally. And as I said before, there are good cops and bad cops. Just like there are good people and bad people (citizens).
Now, I am not a Cop, and have had a decent amount of trouble with them... I also do not advocate undeserved brutality, but I do know that if my job was to "regulate" crime and criminals that I sure as hell wouldn't approach a scenario without a heart-rate of 180, and being afraid of being shot in the face because of the lack of respect that people have for the police these days, as was pointed out in this post. What I am familiar with is the psychological elements of fear, and how reactions in fearful situations are often irrational. So what are your occupations? As usual, people with big mouths and even bigger opinions don't have a clue what it is like to deal with the scum of the city. Sad to see that in an age of what should be hightened education thanks to the availability of information via the Internet, that people can be so stupid. I bet when you have 2 guns in your face from a couple guys on the street in Philly, your are praying that a cop drives by to save your ass. Double standards, right???
If a cop can't handle his job he should quit, violence should not be condoned because they have a stressful or dangerous job.
It's not about giving the cops a pass, it's about putting things into porper perspective and telling the whole story; rather than simply attacking the cops and giving the criminals a pass, as you and several others have been doing.
Do you always put criminal actions into perspective? Or only when cops commit crimes?
And no one here is giving the criminals a pass, by the way. You on the other hand are giving the police a pass.
I think it's funny that those who claim to hate cops in this thread continue to cite about 10-20 incidents out of the thousands of arrest made every day.
To the person who said they were a sociologist or whatever....
I have a degree in Political Science....Does that make me correct on all things political?
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Its funny, people like solat and fly, you are same type of people who are surprised about the high crime rate in inner city philly or are surprised about police beating others in cases like this, but you are the same people who additionally scratch your heads and say "why do people hate police"
I was born, grew up in and live in the inner city of Philadelphia. How of all people would I be surprised by the high crime rate? My high school was in the projects and was in the center of one of the most racially divided sections of Philly - Grey's Ferry. I also have had a good friend's younger brother killed by being shot in the face the night before his senior prom by a teen age gang who were robbing stores and recognized the kid working behind the counter of the drug store around the corner from my high school as the son of a cop and shot him because he was the son of a "pig".
But I guess your sociology degree makes you more of an expert than someone who has lived here 30 years.
I was born, grew up in and live in the inner city of Philadelphia. How of all people would I be surprised by the high crime rate? My high school was in the projects and was in the center of one of the most racially divided sections of Philly - Grey's Ferry. I also have had a good friend's younger brother killed by being shot in the face the night before his senior prom by a teen age gang who were robbing stores and recognized the kid working behind the counter of the drug store around the corner from my high school as the son of a cop and shot him because he was the son of a "pig".
But I guess your sociology degree makes you more of an expert than someone who has lived here 30 years.
ZING!
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Do you always put criminal actions into perspective? Or only when cops commit crimes?
And no one here is giving the criminals a pass, by the way. You on the other hand are giving the police a pass.
That's right! By design.
The original poster and thread starter never mentioned a damn thing about the what the three criminals did and why they were being pursued by the Police. Not even a mere mention. It was all completely about generalizing all Police Officers, demonizing them, bashing them and generalizing all incidents as being the same thing.
Naturally, the usual suspects came in and responded in full support of the OP and his ridiculous comments. High-Fives all around and plenty of butt-slapping.
But when someone comes in to suggest there's more to the story than meets the eye and that generalizing all police is ignorant; the usual suspects circle the wagons, claim higher moral ground, self-righteousness and disregard any significance of the criminal's actions.
I love how when I respond in an equally extreme manner (except to the other side), essentially doing excatly you are doing; you all act like it's so outrageous and horrible. All the while disregarding and ignoring the exact same behavior.......from yourselves.
Oh my, imagine if I made a comment generalizing all .......hmmm...let's say....Muslims; in the same vein as the comments being made here about cops?
Holy smokes, it would be an overly-liberal/PC meltdwon as the PC apologists would completely lose their minds and going into a feeding-frenzy....like crazed sharks.
Oh wait.......that has happened.
hip-ok-rass-ee
The one clear thing here and what has been a consistent pattern at the MT, for the PC Apologist Extremists:
Make excuses for, feverishly attempt to justify and steadfastly defend all criminals and criminal actions no matter how hideous....how repulsive the crime.
The original poster and thread starter never mentioned a damn thing about the what the three criminals did and why they were being pursued by the Police. Not even a mere mention. It was all completely about generalizing all Police Officers, demonizing them, bashing them and generalizing all incidents as being the same thing.
Naturally, the usual suspects came in and responded in full support of the OP and his ridiculous comments. High-Fives all around and plenty of butt-slapping.
But when someone comes in to suggest there's more to the story than meets the eye and that generalizing all police is ignorant; the usual suspects circle the wagons, claim higher moral ground, self-righteousness and disregard any significance of the criminal's actions.
I love how when I respond in an equally extreme manner (except to the other side), essentially doing excatly you are doing; you all act like it's so outrageous and horrible. All the while disregarding and ignoring the exact same behavior.......from yourselves.
Oh my, imagine if I made a comment generalizing all .......hmmm...let's say....Muslims; in the same vein as the comments being made here about cops?
Holy smokes, it would be an overly-liberal/PC meltdwon as the PC apologists would completely lose their minds and going into a feeding-frenzy....like crazed sharks.
Oh wait.......that has happened.
hip-ok-rass-ee
The one clear thing here and what has been a consistent pattern at the MT, for the PC Apologist Extremists:
Make excuses for, feverishly attempt to justify and steadfastly defend all criminals and criminal actions no matter how hideous....how repulsive the crime.
You have just explained why this argument is futile....
It's like abortion. People will never see eye-to-eye
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What a bullshit story. You're obviously excluding a lot of important and significant facts and details.
So there was a large group of people and there was a fight. Your buddy gets hammered with a 2x4 and what happened next? Did the crowd disperse? How many people were left hanging around when the cops arrived?
How many people were involved in this fight?
What did the cop say to you the minute he arrived there? How did he come to the conclusion you knew the victim of the 2X4, best? What instructions did the cops give you upon communication with you? Were you instructed to make no phone calls till they had a chance to talk to you?
Chances are the cops saw you as the possible assailant or someone who knows the assailants. Chances are the cops weren't sure of anything and wanted to get control of the situation. Afterall, there was a fight and your buddy got clobbered with a 2X4. That's not something they take lightly.
My instinct tells me your hiding some pertinent information and trying to paint yourself in a better light, than what the situation really was.
I don't fear cops and I have no problems communicating with them. I used to work with law enforcement officers from several branches of of all kinds (FBI, beat cops, Special Investigations Bureau, Detectives, DEA ...etc).
I knew those guys personally (and still do), as well as professionally. And as I said before, there are good cops and bad cops. Just like there are good people and bad people (citizens).
You acknowledge the seriousness of the attack in your rebuttal but call it a bullshit story. You're a fucking prick.
I knew posting just the horrendous shit from the cops side might get the story called out. So here's the rest:
Group of maybe 20-30 of us had a bbq. A random group of 10-15 showed up. At this point, I am asleep, so what I know is admittedly heresay, but confirmed by everyone there. The random group that showed up was clearly looking to start something. They eventually did, and my buddy stepped in between to calm things down. At that point, he was hit from behind by a 2X4. He suffered a fractured skull. Fortunately most of our group there were lifeguards/emts. They secured him on a table in the pool as the assailants were actually still trying to fight those helping him. The cops were called and the assailants left. This is where I am woken up, by another of our good friends. I come out to the commotion, and start making calls to get his mom's number and start reaching out to people. At this point there is no activity besides people taking care of those injured (we needed 3 ambulances), people cleaning up, and people otherwise just being dazed. When the cops did arrive there was no fight going on, clearly no animosity between anybody still at the house. The first two on the scene demanded my friend be taken out of the pool. The lifeguards/emts informed them he would not be moved until he had a backboard and neck brace (standard operating procedure). In that commotion, they arrested an emt who was aiding in the pool. When the ambulance came it was verified our group had acted correctly. Now, more sherrifs have arrived. They ask the crowd who knows the victim best. Everyone looks at me, so the sherriff asks me to come to him. I start this walk, but in between me is my buddy, so the sherriff asks me to go around the pool. As I'm going around the pool, another sherriff continues to yell at me about trying to walk on my original path to his pal (this is as I've changed my path and am walking the correct way, around the pool). I lost my cool and yelled something back, I don't recall what it was (fairly hectic situation). At this point he comes around the pool and takes his cuffs out. I grab my cell phone and hand it to another friend, asking him to continue trying to get a hold of our friend's mom. The cops grab my cell phone from him, and lead me around the corner saying they just need to talk to me. Around the corner I go, there is no talk, and I'm thrown in the back of the car. This is when the sherriff throws my cell phone on the dash and tells me to try to call his mom now. The sherriffs then continue to come to the car about twice an hour and harrass me about calling his mom... I was eventually released and was able to contact his mom. As stated earlier, the case was given to a detective on vacation for two more weeks. He comes back and doesn't act on it.
You're going to attack little points in the story. I know this. It's admittedly full of heresay and lack of detail at points. I know I could have acted differently to avoid detainment. But like I said before, we must hold police to a higher standard. Here is what they knew:
I was closest to the victim.
I was trying to contact his mother.
And to throw my phone in front of me and laughingly tell me to try to call her then is the most disgusting thing I've ever been privy to. Not only were they incredible douche bags, but their lack of care for the very people they're supposed to serve was overwhelming.
Yes, it's a story of only about 6 asshole cops (maybe 50% of total cops there). But you know what, it will stick with me and guide how I deal with officers forever.
When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...
"Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
I was born, grew up in and live in the inner city of Philadelphia. How of all people would I be surprised by the high crime rate? My high school was in the projects and was in the center of one of the most racially divided sections of Philly - Grey's Ferry. I also have had a good friend's younger brother killed by being shot in the face the night before his senior prom by a teen age gang who were robbing stores and recognized the kid working behind the counter of the drug store around the corner from my high school as the son of a cop and shot him because he was the son of a "pig".
But I guess your sociology degree makes you more of an expert than someone who has lived here 30 years.
I agree... as a resident of Philly and living in one of it less than stellar areas for most of formative years, I have seen alot of shit on both sides of the fence. But I can say that for the most part, officers handle the duties of their extremely difficult job rather well. And I never once thought about hating a police officer for doing their job, much like I don't hate anyone serving in the military for doing their job.
And I stopped by Sgt. Liczbinski's memorial today, and its amazing to see the outpouring of community support for this fallen officer. It was also nice to just be there in the rain, basically with no one around (other than a few officers and a news camera, I figure due to the funeral ongoing) and just reflect and think about all the shit going on in this city and my life and appreciate the sacrifices that people make every day for those whom they don't even know.
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Just because a job is stressful it is not okay to go ape-shit. i suppose you want to give a free pass on the soldiers that torture prisoners, because they've been through a lot.
No giving them a pass....I just don't give two shits about people who shoot guns into crowds of people and run from the cops.
and...
That is a very weak comparison!
Evidence by the Philly cop who was shot.....I think have cops have more to be concerned with
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Given to Fly___..
You acknowledge the seriousness of the attack in your rebuttal but call it a bullshit story.
I considered it a bullshit story because it was clearly obvious you left out a shitload of details that are significant to the story and behavior of the cops.
Now, if your story is accurate and truthful there certainly appears to have been a few police officers who behaved inapproriately and rather unprofessional. But there still could be a valid reason for their behavior, even though it sounds like they may have gone too far.
But here's what happens.
Your friends may have known what happened, but.........
The police DON'T know what happened and they have no idea who did what.
Regardless of whether there was any demonstrative behavior of animosity or conflict, when they arrived there.
Through their eyes, everyone is a suspect and anyone could have clubbed your friend in the head. That's why they investigate, question, gather testimonies, evidence and information in general.
It wouldn't be unusual for someone who was still there to have comitted the crime and have everyone covering for him. It happens all the time.
They are also very wary of anyone claiming to be an EMT and not having the proper credentials to prove it, right there and then. It is their job to see to it that no one who is a suspect touches the victim and that the victim recieves official care. While that may rub your EMT/Lifeguard friends the wrong way; it is their job to make sure no possible suspects do any more damage to the victim, in their presence. For all they know the assailant could have been the one claiming to being helping, but possibily only doing more harm/damage in an attempt to eliminate the victim as the major witness who could testify.
They can't assume anything until they get a better grip on the situation and get some solid facts.
Not following instructions and yelling back at the cops is just stupid and your asking for trouble (you or anyone else there).
Was this a private home? A apartment/Condo pool? A public pool?
Were there any underage (under 18) minors there? Was there alcohol clearly displayed in the area? Were there any underage drinkers (depending on what the drinking age is in your state)?
Did anyone else at the party mouth off, resist cooperation or instructions?
Those are a few more things to consider.
Why didn't the victim ever press charges against the assailant?
Why was the case simply laid on the desk of a detective and everyone waited?
Why didn't anyone else at the party come forth, identify the assailant and give the police the name of the assailant and those in his party who started the fight and became violent?
Why didn't you press charges against the cop for harrassment?
As we can see, your story is already taking on a completely different shape with the information you have now submitted.
Bottom line here, you were sleeping and didn't even really see what was going on or what happened.
What a bullshit story. You're obviously excluding a lot of important and significant facts and details.
So there was a large group of people and there was a fight. Your buddy gets hammered with a 2x4 and what happened next? Did the crowd disperse? How many people were left hanging around when the cops arrived?
How many people were involved in this fight?
What did the cop say to you the minute he arrived there? How did he come to the conclusion you knew the victim of the 2X4, best? What instructions did the cops give you upon communication with you? Were you instructed to make no phone calls till they had a chance to talk to you?
Chances are the cops saw you as the possible assailant or someone who knows the assailants. Chances are the cops weren't sure of anything and wanted to get control of the situation. Afterall, there was a fight and your buddy got clobbered with a 2X4. That's not something they take lightly.
My instinct tells me your hiding some pertinent information and trying to paint yourself in a better light, than what the situation really was.
I don't fear cops and I have no problems communicating with them. I used to work with law enforcement officers from several branches of of all kinds (FBI, beat cops, Special Investigations Bureau, Detectives, DEA ...etc).
I knew those guys personally (and still do), as well as professionally. And as I said before, there are good cops and bad cops. Just like there are good people and bad people (citizens).
Let me fill in so you can stop talking out of your ass. I know it must be hard.
The fight starts because another person spilled a drink on one of the randoms in passing and even apologized. The person spilled on starts ranting and gets her boyfriend, who was looking for a fight anyway starts swinging along with his other buddies.
Our buddy gets hit with a 2x4 trying to get innocent victims away from the fight. His back was turned and didn't even see the guy hit him. He fell down and afterwards was kicked merciously on the ground while he's unconscience. Mean while the lifeguards and EMTs bring him in the pool where its safest. The rest of the lifeguards are protecting our friend who is bleeding out. The rest of us are facing mad-men with 2x4s and other blunt objects, many of us take hits but nothing as bad as our buddy. i proceed to get a bat so the fight is fair and on my way wake up SilverSeed. The cowards drive off laughing the whole way through.
The cops come and think we did this and right off the bat are complete assholes. They harass the lifeguards and emts and tell them to get out of the pool, but SOP states not to move the victim until a strecher and c-collar can be put on the victim. They don't care, they even threaten them that they will lose their jobs since they are helping a person while under the influence. But they did everything by the book and held their ground the ambulance came and even let them put the c-collar and strecther on our buddy and give the inital status report to the head EMT on duty. The cops were undermined and begin to take it out on the rest of us. Telling us that this would have never happened if we weren't drinking and telling us we were immature delinquents, even though all of us had higher education and everything was fine until these assholes came. They asked SilverSeed some questions and I don;t remember what he calls one of the cops but all he was trying to do was call the victims mom and he's giving us shit like we're responsible.
Is that fair? No it not. No compassion for what we just been thorugh, just blamed it on us.
And was justice served? NO
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Given to Fly___..
That's right. I am a prick. And coming from the likes of you, I consider that a compliment.
I considered it a bullshit story because it was clearly obvious you left out a shitload of details that are significant to the story and behavior of the cops.
Now, if your story is accurate and truthful there certainly appears to have been a few police officers who behaved inapproriately and rather unprofessional. But there still could be a valid reason for their behavior, even though it sounds like they may have gone too far.
But here's what happens.
Your friends may have known what happened, but.........
The police DON'T know what happened and they have no idea who did what.
Regardless of whether there was any demonstrative behavior of animosity or conflict, when they arrived there.
Through their eyes, everyone is a suspect and anyone could have clubbed your friend in the head. That's why they investigate, question, gather testimonies, evidence and information in general.
It wouldn't be unusual for someone who was still there to have comitted the crime and have everyone covering for him. It happens all the time.
They are also very wary of anyone claiming to be an EMT and not having the proper credentials to prove it, right there and then. It is their job to see to it that no one who is a suspect touches the victim and that the victim recieves official care. While that may rub your EMT/Lifeguard friends the wrong way; it is their job to make sure no possible suspects do any more damage to the victim, in their presence. For all they know the assailant could have been the one claiming to being helping, but possibily only doing more harm/damage in an attempt to eliminate the victim as the major witness who could testify.
They can't assume anything until they get a better grip on the situation and get some solid facts.
Not following instructions and yelling back at the cops is just stupid and your asking for trouble (you or anyone else there).
Was this a private home? A apartment/Condo pool? A public pool?
Were there any underage (under 18) minors there? Was there alcohol clearly displayed in the area? Were there any underage drinkers (depending on what the drinking age is in your state)?
Did anyone else at the party mouth off, resist cooperation or instructions?
Those are a few more things to consider.
Why didn't the victim ever press charges against the assailant?
Why was the case simply laid on the desk of a detective and everyone waited?
Why didn't anyone else at the party come forth, identify the assailant and give the police the name of the assailant and those in his party who started the fight and became violent?
Why didn't you press charges against the cop for harrassment?
As we can see, your story is already taking on a completely different shape with the information you have now submitted.
Bottom line here, you were sleeping and didn't even really see what was going on or what happened.
You know why the victim didn't press any charges? because he's a better person then all of us. He asked us not to make a big deal out of it and was happy he was still alive, and was going to let it be.
As for why hasn't anyone comeforth, people did, but with trusty detective work nothing happened.
And if you still don't believe cops are bullshit, you must be a fucking WASP.
Try being harrased by the cops because you're a brown man in a white neighborhood.
I know one thing is for sure, you are a PRICK.
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Given to Fly___..
Just because a job is stressful it is not okay to go ape-shit. i suppose you want to give a free pass on the soldiers that torture prisoners, because they've been through a lot.
All I'm really saying is that comparing any civilian job to that of a soldier/cops is ridiculous. You don't know how you would react if you're chasing some scumbag who just shot into a crowd of people.
However, I know how you would react.....You would be nice to these scumbags just like the rest of the PC police on this board.
Nobody is giving cops free pass to do anything. However, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to those who uphold the law daily over those who break it daily.
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All I'm really saying is that comparing any civilian job to that of a soldier/cops is ridiculous. You don't know how you would react if you're chasing some scumbag who just shot into a crowd of people.
However, I know how you would react.....You would be nice to these scumbags just like the rest of the PC police on this board.
Nobody is giving cops free pass to do anything. However, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to those who uphold the law daily over those who break it daily.
You can't give the benefit of the doubt to those you entrust to protect/lead/fight for us. Once you do you open the door for corruption.
Think about it, if you allow politicians to have the benefit of the doubt we're left off where we're at now.
CHANGE!!!
San Diego, July 07, 2006
Los Angeles, July 10, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 21, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 22, 2006
Lollapalooza, August 5th, 2007
eV., Los Angeles April 12, 2008
eV., San Diego April 15, 2008
Given to Fly___..
You know why the victim didn't press any charges? because he's a better person then all of us. He asked us not to make a big deal out of it and was happy he was still alive, and was going to let it be.
As for why hasn't anyone comeforth, people did, but with trusty detective work nothing happened.
And if you still don't believe cops are bullshit, you must be a fucking WASP.
Try being harrased by the cops because you're a brown man in a white neighborhood.
I know one thing is for sure, you are a PRICK.
Race card officially played!!!! Professional Victim alert!!!!
Get off it!
By playing the race card, you have officially lost all credibility!
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
You can't give the benefit of the doubt to those you entrust to protect/lead/fight for us. Once you do you open the door for corruption.
Think about it, if you allow politicians to have the benefit of the doubt we're left off where we're at now.
CHANGE!!!
I'll give the benefit of the doubt to criminals and see how far that gets me!
I hope someday the harsh reality of the world come knocking at your door. This world is a fucked up place. If you can't put your faith in anything then you will continue to be the victim that you are!
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
You know why the victim didn't press any charges? because he's a better person then all of us. He asked us not to make a big deal out of it and was happy he was still alive, and was going to let it be.
As for why hasn't anyone comeforth, people did, but with trusty detective work nothing happened.
And if you still don't believe cops are bullshit, you must be a fucking WASP.
Try being harrased by the cops because you're a brown man in a white neighborhood.
I know one thing is for sure, you are a PRICK.
Try being harrassed by residents because you're a white man in a brown neighborhood....
This is your notice that there is a problem with your signature. Please remove it.
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
Try being harrassed by residents because you're a white man in a brown neighborhood....
San Diego comes to mind
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
Race card officially played!!!! Professional Victim alert!!!!
Get off it!
By playing the race card, you have officially lost all credibility!
I'm not claiming to be a victim, you did that for me, but i do know what its like to be one, YES.
and get off it? why? so we can live blind through this world and accept everything and question nothing.
San Diego, July 07, 2006
Los Angeles, July 10, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 21, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 22, 2006
Lollapalooza, August 5th, 2007
eV., Los Angeles April 12, 2008
eV., San Diego April 15, 2008
Given to Fly___..
I'll give the benefit of the doubt to criminals and see how far that gets me!
I hope someday the harsh reality of the world come knocking at your door. This world is a fucked up place. If you can't put your faith in anything then you will continue to be the victim that you are!
Look all i'm saying is that you can't give them the benefit of the doubt cause it does lead to to corruption.
if you can honestly say thats not true, you're not seeing the big picture.
And I do realize this world is a fucked up place and have faith in humanity that we can get through this.
and what has it knocked on your door? you just knocked on me when you dubbed me as a victim.
San Diego, July 07, 2006
Los Angeles, July 10, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 21, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 22, 2006
Lollapalooza, August 5th, 2007
eV., Los Angeles April 12, 2008
eV., San Diego April 15, 2008
Given to Fly___..
I've lived in SD all my life, you're off your rocker.
And it's not playing the race card when you get pulled over in white neighborhoods just for being there. I've been in the car while it's happened to BOOOOM. He got pulled over leaving my own house and questioned on why he was there. I explained to the officer who I was and that it was my house. He was very pleasant to me, but certainly not my brown driver.
When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...
"Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
I'm not claiming to be a victim, you did that for me, but i do know what its like to be one, YES.
and get off it? why? so we can live blind through this world and accept everything and question nothing.
come on!
You're obviously blind to the fact that criminals exist in this world and your first line of defense are cops sworn to eliminate them. If you automatically dismiss the police as being "pigs" then you're being blind yourself.
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
Comments
yeah, I watched New Jack City and now I know to never get hooked on drugs while working naked in Wesley Snipes drug factory.
you sound like you have some problems
you gotta work on your stereotyping
i do not know anything about this, but if the kid was acting crazy, and seemed to be a threat to another, than the police oficer may have saved an innocent persons life. maybe they could have subdued him nonlethally, but maybe not.
That's the point you continue to completely miss.
It's not about giving the cops a pass, it's about putting things into porper perspective and telling the whole story; rather than simply attacking the cops and giving the criminals a pass, as you and several others have been doing.
Several of you are generalizing all cops by the behavior of a relative few that have made big news in the media. And everyone of those incidents are individual incidents with their own stories and set of facts. But you and other's here have no problem depicting police officers as violent, aggressive, maniacs who attack innocent and helpless citizens at the drop of the hat. Which is complete bullshit.
Where's the outrage at the criminals who walked into a crowd and opened fire? Where's that side of the story in all of your bullshit whining and cop bashing?
There are good cops and bad cops. But a large majority of the time cops become aggressive when idiots don't listen and follow their instructions.
Defiance of their instructions is interpreted by Police Officers as a potentially dangerous......maybe life-threatening situation. It's the nature of the job.
If you follow their instructions and communicate in a rational, mature and non-threatening manner; a very large majority of cops will never, ever hurt you or abuse you. That's the facts.
What a bullshit story. You're obviously excluding a lot of important and significant facts and details.
So there was a large group of people and there was a fight. Your buddy gets hammered with a 2x4 and what happened next? Did the crowd disperse? How many people were left hanging around when the cops arrived?
How many people were involved in this fight?
What did the cop say to you the minute he arrived there? How did he come to the conclusion you knew the victim of the 2X4, best? What instructions did the cops give you upon communication with you? Were you instructed to make no phone calls till they had a chance to talk to you?
Chances are the cops saw you as the possible assailant or someone who knows the assailants. Chances are the cops weren't sure of anything and wanted to get control of the situation. Afterall, there was a fight and your buddy got clobbered with a 2X4. That's not something they take lightly.
My instinct tells me your hiding some pertinent information and trying to paint yourself in a better light, than what the situation really was.
I don't fear cops and I have no problems communicating with them. I used to work with law enforcement officers from several branches of of all kinds (FBI, beat cops, Special Investigations Bureau, Detectives, DEA ...etc).
I knew those guys personally (and still do), as well as professionally. And as I said before, there are good cops and bad cops. Just like there are good people and bad people (citizens).
If a cop can't handle his job he should quit, violence should not be condoned because they have a stressful or dangerous job.
naděje umírá poslední
Do you always put criminal actions into perspective? Or only when cops commit crimes?
And no one here is giving the criminals a pass, by the way. You on the other hand are giving the police a pass.
naděje umírá poslední
To the person who said they were a sociologist or whatever....
I have a degree in Political Science....Does that make me correct on all things political?
I was born, grew up in and live in the inner city of Philadelphia. How of all people would I be surprised by the high crime rate? My high school was in the projects and was in the center of one of the most racially divided sections of Philly - Grey's Ferry. I also have had a good friend's younger brother killed by being shot in the face the night before his senior prom by a teen age gang who were robbing stores and recognized the kid working behind the counter of the drug store around the corner from my high school as the son of a cop and shot him because he was the son of a "pig".
But I guess your sociology degree makes you more of an expert than someone who has lived here 30 years.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
ZING!
That's right! By design.
The original poster and thread starter never mentioned a damn thing about the what the three criminals did and why they were being pursued by the Police. Not even a mere mention. It was all completely about generalizing all Police Officers, demonizing them, bashing them and generalizing all incidents as being the same thing.
Naturally, the usual suspects came in and responded in full support of the OP and his ridiculous comments. High-Fives all around and plenty of butt-slapping.
But when someone comes in to suggest there's more to the story than meets the eye and that generalizing all police is ignorant; the usual suspects circle the wagons, claim higher moral ground, self-righteousness and disregard any significance of the criminal's actions.
I love how when I respond in an equally extreme manner (except to the other side), essentially doing excatly you are doing; you all act like it's so outrageous and horrible. All the while disregarding and ignoring the exact same behavior.......from yourselves.
Oh my, imagine if I made a comment generalizing all .......hmmm...let's say....Muslims; in the same vein as the comments being made here about cops?
Holy smokes, it would be an overly-liberal/PC meltdwon as the PC apologists would completely lose their minds and going into a feeding-frenzy....like crazed sharks.
Oh wait.......that has happened.
hip-ok-rass-ee
The one clear thing here and what has been a consistent pattern at the MT, for the PC Apologist Extremists:
Make excuses for, feverishly attempt to justify and steadfastly defend all criminals and criminal actions no matter how hideous....how repulsive the crime.
You have just explained why this argument is futile....
It's like abortion. People will never see eye-to-eye
You acknowledge the seriousness of the attack in your rebuttal but call it a bullshit story. You're a fucking prick.
I knew posting just the horrendous shit from the cops side might get the story called out. So here's the rest:
Group of maybe 20-30 of us had a bbq. A random group of 10-15 showed up. At this point, I am asleep, so what I know is admittedly heresay, but confirmed by everyone there. The random group that showed up was clearly looking to start something. They eventually did, and my buddy stepped in between to calm things down. At that point, he was hit from behind by a 2X4. He suffered a fractured skull. Fortunately most of our group there were lifeguards/emts. They secured him on a table in the pool as the assailants were actually still trying to fight those helping him. The cops were called and the assailants left. This is where I am woken up, by another of our good friends. I come out to the commotion, and start making calls to get his mom's number and start reaching out to people. At this point there is no activity besides people taking care of those injured (we needed 3 ambulances), people cleaning up, and people otherwise just being dazed. When the cops did arrive there was no fight going on, clearly no animosity between anybody still at the house. The first two on the scene demanded my friend be taken out of the pool. The lifeguards/emts informed them he would not be moved until he had a backboard and neck brace (standard operating procedure). In that commotion, they arrested an emt who was aiding in the pool. When the ambulance came it was verified our group had acted correctly. Now, more sherrifs have arrived. They ask the crowd who knows the victim best. Everyone looks at me, so the sherriff asks me to come to him. I start this walk, but in between me is my buddy, so the sherriff asks me to go around the pool. As I'm going around the pool, another sherriff continues to yell at me about trying to walk on my original path to his pal (this is as I've changed my path and am walking the correct way, around the pool). I lost my cool and yelled something back, I don't recall what it was (fairly hectic situation). At this point he comes around the pool and takes his cuffs out. I grab my cell phone and hand it to another friend, asking him to continue trying to get a hold of our friend's mom. The cops grab my cell phone from him, and lead me around the corner saying they just need to talk to me. Around the corner I go, there is no talk, and I'm thrown in the back of the car. This is when the sherriff throws my cell phone on the dash and tells me to try to call his mom now. The sherriffs then continue to come to the car about twice an hour and harrass me about calling his mom... I was eventually released and was able to contact his mom. As stated earlier, the case was given to a detective on vacation for two more weeks. He comes back and doesn't act on it.
You're going to attack little points in the story. I know this. It's admittedly full of heresay and lack of detail at points. I know I could have acted differently to avoid detainment. But like I said before, we must hold police to a higher standard. Here is what they knew:
I was closest to the victim.
I was trying to contact his mother.
And to throw my phone in front of me and laughingly tell me to try to call her then is the most disgusting thing I've ever been privy to. Not only were they incredible douche bags, but their lack of care for the very people they're supposed to serve was overwhelming.
Yes, it's a story of only about 6 asshole cops (maybe 50% of total cops there). But you know what, it will stick with me and guide how I deal with officers forever.
"Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
I agree... as a resident of Philly and living in one of it less than stellar areas for most of formative years, I have seen alot of shit on both sides of the fence. But I can say that for the most part, officers handle the duties of their extremely difficult job rather well. And I never once thought about hating a police officer for doing their job, much like I don't hate anyone serving in the military for doing their job.
And I stopped by Sgt. Liczbinski's memorial today, and its amazing to see the outpouring of community support for this fallen officer. It was also nice to just be there in the rain, basically with no one around (other than a few officers and a news camera, I figure due to the funeral ongoing) and just reflect and think about all the shit going on in this city and my life and appreciate the sacrifices that people make every day for those whom they don't even know.
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
Just because a job is stressful it is not okay to go ape-shit. i suppose you want to give a free pass on the soldiers that torture prisoners, because they've been through a lot.
Los Angeles, July 10, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 21, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 22, 2006
Lollapalooza, August 5th, 2007
eV., Los Angeles April 12, 2008
eV., San Diego April 15, 2008
Given to Fly___..
That's right. I am a prick. And coming from the likes of you, I consider that a compliment.
I considered it a bullshit story because it was clearly obvious you left out a shitload of details that are significant to the story and behavior of the cops.
Now, if your story is accurate and truthful there certainly appears to have been a few police officers who behaved inapproriately and rather unprofessional. But there still could be a valid reason for their behavior, even though it sounds like they may have gone too far.
But here's what happens.
Your friends may have known what happened, but.........
The police DON'T know what happened and they have no idea who did what.
Regardless of whether there was any demonstrative behavior of animosity or conflict, when they arrived there.
Through their eyes, everyone is a suspect and anyone could have clubbed your friend in the head. That's why they investigate, question, gather testimonies, evidence and information in general.
It wouldn't be unusual for someone who was still there to have comitted the crime and have everyone covering for him. It happens all the time.
They are also very wary of anyone claiming to be an EMT and not having the proper credentials to prove it, right there and then. It is their job to see to it that no one who is a suspect touches the victim and that the victim recieves official care. While that may rub your EMT/Lifeguard friends the wrong way; it is their job to make sure no possible suspects do any more damage to the victim, in their presence. For all they know the assailant could have been the one claiming to being helping, but possibily only doing more harm/damage in an attempt to eliminate the victim as the major witness who could testify.
They can't assume anything until they get a better grip on the situation and get some solid facts.
Not following instructions and yelling back at the cops is just stupid and your asking for trouble (you or anyone else there).
Was this a private home? A apartment/Condo pool? A public pool?
Were there any underage (under 18) minors there? Was there alcohol clearly displayed in the area? Were there any underage drinkers (depending on what the drinking age is in your state)?
Did anyone else at the party mouth off, resist cooperation or instructions?
Those are a few more things to consider.
Why didn't the victim ever press charges against the assailant?
Why was the case simply laid on the desk of a detective and everyone waited?
Why didn't anyone else at the party come forth, identify the assailant and give the police the name of the assailant and those in his party who started the fight and became violent?
Why didn't you press charges against the cop for harrassment?
As we can see, your story is already taking on a completely different shape with the information you have now submitted.
Bottom line here, you were sleeping and didn't even really see what was going on or what happened.
Let me fill in so you can stop talking out of your ass. I know it must be hard.
The fight starts because another person spilled a drink on one of the randoms in passing and even apologized. The person spilled on starts ranting and gets her boyfriend, who was looking for a fight anyway starts swinging along with his other buddies.
Our buddy gets hit with a 2x4 trying to get innocent victims away from the fight. His back was turned and didn't even see the guy hit him. He fell down and afterwards was kicked merciously on the ground while he's unconscience. Mean while the lifeguards and EMTs bring him in the pool where its safest. The rest of the lifeguards are protecting our friend who is bleeding out. The rest of us are facing mad-men with 2x4s and other blunt objects, many of us take hits but nothing as bad as our buddy. i proceed to get a bat so the fight is fair and on my way wake up SilverSeed. The cowards drive off laughing the whole way through.
The cops come and think we did this and right off the bat are complete assholes. They harass the lifeguards and emts and tell them to get out of the pool, but SOP states not to move the victim until a strecher and c-collar can be put on the victim. They don't care, they even threaten them that they will lose their jobs since they are helping a person while under the influence. But they did everything by the book and held their ground the ambulance came and even let them put the c-collar and strecther on our buddy and give the inital status report to the head EMT on duty. The cops were undermined and begin to take it out on the rest of us. Telling us that this would have never happened if we weren't drinking and telling us we were immature delinquents, even though all of us had higher education and everything was fine until these assholes came. They asked SilverSeed some questions and I don;t remember what he calls one of the cops but all he was trying to do was call the victims mom and he's giving us shit like we're responsible.
Is that fair? No it not. No compassion for what we just been thorugh, just blamed it on us.
And was justice served? NO
Los Angeles, July 10, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 21, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 22, 2006
Lollapalooza, August 5th, 2007
eV., Los Angeles April 12, 2008
eV., San Diego April 15, 2008
Given to Fly___..
You know why the victim didn't press any charges? because he's a better person then all of us. He asked us not to make a big deal out of it and was happy he was still alive, and was going to let it be.
As for why hasn't anyone comeforth, people did, but with trusty detective work nothing happened.
And if you still don't believe cops are bullshit, you must be a fucking WASP.
Try being harrased by the cops because you're a brown man in a white neighborhood.
I know one thing is for sure, you are a PRICK.
Los Angeles, July 10, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 21, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 22, 2006
Lollapalooza, August 5th, 2007
eV., Los Angeles April 12, 2008
eV., San Diego April 15, 2008
Given to Fly___..
All I'm really saying is that comparing any civilian job to that of a soldier/cops is ridiculous. You don't know how you would react if you're chasing some scumbag who just shot into a crowd of people.
However, I know how you would react.....You would be nice to these scumbags just like the rest of the PC police on this board.
Nobody is giving cops free pass to do anything. However, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to those who uphold the law daily over those who break it daily.
Think about it, if you allow politicians to have the benefit of the doubt we're left off where we're at now.
CHANGE!!!
Los Angeles, July 10, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 21, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 22, 2006
Lollapalooza, August 5th, 2007
eV., Los Angeles April 12, 2008
eV., San Diego April 15, 2008
Given to Fly___..
Race card officially played!!!! Professional Victim alert!!!!
Get off it!
By playing the race card, you have officially lost all credibility!
I'll give the benefit of the doubt to criminals and see how far that gets me!
I hope someday the harsh reality of the world come knocking at your door. This world is a fucked up place. If you can't put your faith in anything then you will continue to be the victim that you are!
Try being harrassed by residents because you're a white man in a brown neighborhood....
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
San Diego comes to mind
and get off it? why? so we can live blind through this world and accept everything and question nothing.
Los Angeles, July 10, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 21, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 22, 2006
Lollapalooza, August 5th, 2007
eV., Los Angeles April 12, 2008
eV., San Diego April 15, 2008
Given to Fly___..
Look all i'm saying is that you can't give them the benefit of the doubt cause it does lead to to corruption.
if you can honestly say thats not true, you're not seeing the big picture.
And I do realize this world is a fucked up place and have faith in humanity that we can get through this.
and what has it knocked on your door? you just knocked on me when you dubbed me as a victim.
Los Angeles, July 10, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 21, 2006
Bridge School Benefit, October 22, 2006
Lollapalooza, August 5th, 2007
eV., Los Angeles April 12, 2008
eV., San Diego April 15, 2008
Given to Fly___..
Are you fucking joking? What part do you live in?
I've lived in SD all my life, you're off your rocker.
And it's not playing the race card when you get pulled over in white neighborhoods just for being there. I've been in the car while it's happened to BOOOOM. He got pulled over leaving my own house and questioned on why he was there. I explained to the officer who I was and that it was my house. He was very pleasant to me, but certainly not my brown driver.
"Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
come on!
You're obviously blind to the fact that criminals exist in this world and your first line of defense are cops sworn to eliminate them. If you automatically dismiss the police as being "pigs" then you're being blind yourself.