how about the people who bad mouth people from the inner city. Police justify their ridiculous tactics by suggesting they deal with rapists, murderers and thugs, and usually they refer to blacks in the inner city. How many of the people they arrest and beat and shoot at are really maniacal criminals? How many are just trying to survive. Again double standard. Either your for equal punishment for both cops and criminals or your not for any punishment at all. How many people are killed daily by Police?
I dont owe the police a goddamn thing. If someone robbed my house at gunpoint, I would rather be shot and killed than call the pigs. They are racist, brutal animals, they certainly arent hanging on my wall of heroes!
Well let me be the first to say that stereotypes don't just pop out of thin air.
Maybe it's these "inner city people's" way of "surviving" that gets them picked up by the cops.
Everybody is a victim all the time! Poor me! It's the cop's fault I'm robbing, stealing and murdering. I personally do not have any problems with the cops. Maybe it's because I don't break the law. Maybe it's because when they pull me over, I pull over. Maybe it's because I don't carry a gun to shoot people with.
Where do you live?
I will be sure to tell the cops not to bother...
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
as opposed to the problem being the police who shove brooms up peoples butts, who rape women, who engage in drug dealing, who harass and brutalize citizens based on race and socioeconomic status.
Yeah, its my statements that are the problem! I must as well shut up, and everything will be hunky dory! Great idea No Code!
Again, it always amazes, how you have people coming out of the woodwork to defend police, no matter how absurd their actions. Amadou Diallo is shot 41 times, shots piercing his soles of his feet showing the police fired even when he was on the ground. He was unarmed. And still you had multiple people coming to the police's defense.
Would you rather we take the side of criminals?
You're acting like everyone arrested for crime is innocent.
Can I get some proof that any of the above has actually happened....??
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
Well let me be the first to say that stereotypes don't just pop out of thin air.
.
You're right! I worked at mcds most of my teen years. Every African American customer i waited on, ordered sprite or orange. It's not a stereotype when it's true.
You're acting like everyone arrested for crime is innocent.
Can I get some proof that any of the above has actually happened....??
uhh... read a newspaper. Or maybe use the search function. Sean bell, Amadou Diallo, Abner Louima. Sorry to be mean, but those names arent out of nowhere buddy. They are famous cases. Rodney King etc...
If you dont want me acting like everyone arrested for a crime is innocent, maybe I should act like the police, who do the opposite and act like everyone accused of a crime is guilty.
over 60 percent of people in prison are of color. 1 in every 3 african american men is in prison. in wash dc something like 95+ percent of people in prison are african american. You have people like Mumia, and Leonard Peltier and the Wm3. Yeah, I best not suggest that those who are in prison are innocent. That would be a lie. Yeah your right! Its not like there is overwhelming evidence that the majority of african american males are in jail for nonviolent drug offense right! Or that the judicial system favors the rich and white!
Yeah maybe I dont know what I am talking about. Then again I have a degree in sociology and took multiple classes on race, class and the justice system. So then again maybe I know something!
you been by not bettering themselves mentally and being held accountable?
So if african american males that live in basically war zones, arent just trying to survive, what in the hell are the police in that metaphor?
How are the police bettering themselves? Since Rodney King we heard endless crap dribbling from their mouths about how things changed, and how they would be more sensitive to blacks and the poor, about how all that was a thing of the past.
17 years later, you still have racist police.
Gee I wonder why people are so pissed at the police? Could it be because they are a bunch of psycho rabid blood hungry killers who shoot people on little to no pretense?
Nah, I wouldnt want to push my luck with that theory, right no code!
Well let me be the first to say that stereotypes don't just pop out of thin air.
Maybe it's these "inner city people's" way of "surviving" that gets them picked up by the cops.
Everybody is a victim all the time! Poor me! It's the cop's fault I'm robbing, stealing and murdering. I personally do not have any problems with the cops. Maybe it's because I don't break the law. Maybe it's because when they pull me over, I pull over. Maybe it's because I don't carry a gun to shoot people with.
Where do you live?
I will be sure to tell the cops not to bother...
So rodney king and abner louima brought it on themselves? Rodney King beaten 52 times and abner louima raped with a broom by NY's finest. Yeah it was their fault! How stupid of me to overlook the obvious! They deserved it! Gee thanks for clearing that up!
And of course Amadou Diallo, he wasnt armed, and didnt have a knife, and didnt provoke the police, he was just at his vestibule trying to enter his apartment. But of course, that deadly wallet. He shouldnt of had that, he was killed because he was stupid enough to have a wallet. I agree it was his fault.
And sean bell, he shouldnt have been at that strip bar, he shouldnt jhave been unarmed. And he shouldnt have been black.
Yeah now that I see it your way, it makes sense. It was all their fault.
thanks! I can see clearly now!
And of course, those 3 men deserved to be beaten because a fellow cop died. Yeah, again, my eyes are open now!
And the WM3 deserve to be in jail because they listen to heavy metal and like black t shirts.
Gee now I am getting the hang of it. I am officially not a radical anymore!
Well let me be the first to say that stereotypes don't just pop out of thin air.
Maybe it's these "inner city people's" way of "surviving" that gets them picked up by the cops.
Everybody is a victim all the time! Poor me! It's the cop's fault I'm robbing, stealing and murdering. I personally do not have any problems with the cops. Maybe it's because I don't break the law. Maybe it's because when they pull me over, I pull over. Maybe it's because I don't carry a gun to shoot people with.
Where do you live?
I will be sure to tell the cops not to bother...
Anyone want to answer the question thats been asked by me 5 times now. When is it ever okay for a citizen to kill a cop, because it seems like its okay for a cop to do anything to anyone and it is okay and justified. I am gonna keep asking until you cowards who support the pigs answer.
Simple question, why the hesitation?
Either your for fair treatment of all, or your for fairtreatment of none.
I just came back from the rally and memorial fundraiser for Sgt. Liczbinski. And I'm glad there was a huge turnout. Real classy move by the local sports teams. All of them donated items for a silent auction and the Flyers are having a moment of silence before the playoff game next week and inviting his family to the game.
how about the people who bad mouth people from the inner city. Police justify their ridiculous tactics by suggesting they deal with rapists, murderers and thugs, and usually they refer to blacks in the inner city. How many of the people they arrest and beat and shoot at are really maniacal criminals? How many are just trying to survive. Again double standard. Either your for equal punishment for both cops and criminals or your not for any punishment at all. How many people are killed daily by Police?
I dont owe the police a goddamn thing. If someone robbed my house at gunpoint, I would rather be shot and killed than call the pigs. They are racist, brutal animals, they certainly arent hanging on my wall of heroes!
This is the beauty of the U.S.A. -We all have the right to free speech- even if we have a juvenile outlook of the world we live in. This is the problem with Grand Theft Auto- The morons who were sitting in their Parents houses playing this game for the past 10 years have no real concept of reality. Amazing! Respect is not in the vocabulary of a majority of this country's 10-25 year old denomination.
I dont owe the police a goddamn thing. If someone robbed my house at gunpoint, I would rather be shot and killed than call the pigs. They are racist, brutal animals, they certainly arent hanging on my wall of heroes!
I'm sorry and I know you feel passionately about this, but that is the most absurd thing I've seen on here in a long time.
This is the beauty of the U.S.A. -We all have the right to free speech- even if we have a juvenile outlook of the world we live in. This is the problem with Grand Theft Auto- The morons who were sitting in their Parents houses playing this game for the past 10 years have no real concept of reality. Amazing! Respect is not in the vocabulary of a majority of this country's 10-25 year old denomination.
i guess its all in how we see the world. Some live in denial, with their head in the sand, others choose to open their eyes and deal with facts and the truth.
If your asking me to bow down and say thanks to a group of folks who belive in the think blue line, who like to keep things quiet and in the group, who are notoriously conservative, racist, brutal and antiwoman, you got another thing coming!
I respect people who do honorable things. Things like speak out, fight for what they believe, do the right thing, arent afraid of being a lone voice in the wilderness and have integrity and morals and values.
Maybe I am missing something but, the police who beat those 3 in philly dont encompass any of those values. i dont respect people who beat and brutalize others. Maybe flyinwhole, thats a quality you admire, but I dont. I dont think shooting people without cause, or shooting people period is admirable. I dont think racism or profiling is admirable.
So unless Serpico joined every Police force in the u.s. I aint gonna be honoring and thanking any police soon!
I'm sorry and I know you feel passionately about this, but that is the most absurd thing I've seen on here in a long time.
yet police shoot people based on skin color daily, and that isnt absurd or noteworthy? You think cops give a crap about people in the projects? Tracy Chapman's song "the police, always come late, if they come at all". Thats the truth my friend. She isnt some liar.
As a rule I dont make friends with people who harm others. It may sound odd but its something I hold dear to.
Anyone want to answer the question thats been asked by me 5 times now. When is it ever okay for a citizen to kill a cop, because it seems like its okay for a cop to do anything to anyone and it is okay and justified. I am gonna keep asking until you cowards who support the pigs answer.
Simple question, why the hesitation?
Either your for fair treatment of all, or your for fairtreatment of none.
When have Police gotten away with Murder? Site your case, have SOME respect for the people who are here to protect law-abiding citizens and stop calling them pigs, it is possible to decifer what you are trying to say, but nobody is listening because of all of the juvenile tags littering your posts!
Yes, there are police who let the power go to their heads. But your sentiments are similar to those spouted by racists, and murderers alike in that you are classifying all of a certain group as scum...Does one rotten apple TRULY spoil the bunch?
When have Police gotten away with Murder? Site your case, have SOME respect for the people who are here to protect law-abiding citizens and stop calling them pigs, it is possible to decifer what you are trying to say, but nobody is listening because of all of the juvenile tags littering your posts!
Yes, there are police who let the power go to their heads. But your sentiments are similar to those spouted by racists, and murderers alike in that you are classifying all of a certain group as scum...Does one rotten apple TRULY spoil the bunch?
As I said, crawl out from your rock fly and open your goddamn eyes!
THE DIALLO VERDICT: THE OVERVIEW; 4 OFFICERS IN DIALLO SHOOTING ARE ACQUITTED OF ALL CHARGES
E-MAIL
Print
Single-Page
Save
Share
Digg
Facebook
Mixx
Yahoo! Buzz
Permalink
By JANE FRITSCH
Published: February 26, 2000
Four New York City police officers were acquitted today of all charges in the death of Amadou Diallo, the immigrant from Guinea who was fired on 41 times as he stood, unarmed, in the vestibule of his apartment building in the Bronx.
The verdict came in a tense and racially charged case that led to anti-police demonstrations, arrests and a reorganization of the department's Street Crime Unit, to which the officers belonged.
But litigation over the shooting might not be over. After the verdict, Mary Jo White, the United States attorney in Manhattan, announced that her office, which has been monitoring the case from the start, and the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department would review the shooting to determine whether any civil rights laws were violated. And Mr. Diallo's parents plan to file a civil lawsuit against the city. The officers could also face administrative charges within the department.
The shooting occurred about 12:40 a.m. on Feb. 4, 1999, when the four officers, all in street clothes, approached Mr. Diallo on the stoop of his building and fired 41 shots, striking him 19 times, as he retreated inside. The officers, who are white, said they had thought he had a gun. It turned out to be a wallet.
The jurors -- four blacks, including the forewoman, and eight whites -- deliberated for three days before reaching their verdict.
The officers -- Sean Carroll, 37, Edward McMellon, 27, Kenneth Boss, 28, and Richard Murphy, 27 -- were as grim-faced today when the verdicts were read as they were when the trial began four weeks ago. They hung their heads, wiped their eyes and hugged each other and their lawyers. As they left the courthouse without speaking to reporters, they walked silently past a crowd of jeering protesters.
Mr. Diallo's parents, friends and supporters sat quietly through the litany of not guilty verdicts and quickly left the courtroom. His mother's face was streaked with tears.
The jurors told Justice Joseph C. Teresi, who presided over the trial, that they did not want to speak to reporters, and they were escorted out of the courthouse.
During the trial, the officers acknowledged their mistake in shooting Mr. Diallo. The defense lawyers made the officers' testimony the centerpiece of their defense, asserting that the shooting was justified because they had believed Mr. Diallo was grabbing a gun. Officer Carroll sobbed as he described how he had realized his error and held Mr. Diallo's hand as he lay dying.
Their lawyers laid much of the blame for the shooting on Mr. Diallo himself, saying he had behaved suspiciously and had not obeyed the officers' commands to stop.
The chief prosecutor, Eric Warner of the Bronx district attorney's office, had argued that the officers, particularly Officer Carroll, had caused the fatal confrontation by prejudging Mr. Diallo as a possible rapist or robber, and never considering that Mr. Diallo might have had a right to be on the stoop.
Robert Johnson, the Bronx district attorney, said outside the courthouse, ''I'm satisfied that the jurors were fair here.'' But he added, ''This case raises a lot of issues about police tactics.'' People in the Bronx have been ''trying to get the attention of the Police Department for some time,'' he said, ''and this case will do it.''
But others were sharply critical. Former Mayor David N. Dinkins said that he was outraged by the verdict. ''This will send the wrong message to those members of the Street Crime Unit who walk around saying, 'We own the night,' '' Mr. Dinkins said.
The Rev. Al Sharpton, who has been leading protests against the Police Department, said he would push the Justice Department to bring a federal civil rights case. ''This is not the end; this is just the beginning,'' he said. ''We took a detour to Albany and that detour is over.''
Mr. Sharpton also asked for calm, saying, ''Those who believe in Amadou should not betray his memory by acting like those who killed him.''
Outside the courthouse, Kadiatou Diallo, Amadou's mother, said, ''I ask for your calm and prayers.'' She added, ''As we go on for the quest of justice, life, equality -- I thank
3 Detectives Acquitted in Bell Shooting
Sign In to E-Mail or Save This
Print
Single Page
Reprints
Share
Digg
Facebook
Mixx
Yahoo! Buzz
Permalink
By MICHAEL WILSON
Published: April 26, 2008
Three detectives were found not guilty Friday on all charges in the shooting death of Sean Bell, who died in a hail of 50 police bullets outside a club in Jamaica, Queens, in November 2006. The verdict prompted calls for calm from the mayor, angry promises of protests by those speaking for the Bell family and expressions of relief by the detectives.
Skip to next paragraph
Enlarge This Image
Chang W. Lee/The New York Times
The detectives who were acquitted, Gescard F. Isnora, left, Marc Cooper and Michael Oliver, with Michael J. Palladino, president of the Detectives’ Endowment Association, at the union’s headquarters on Friday.
Multimedia
Interactive Graphic
Inside the Sean Bell Case
Graphic
Killed or Injured by Police
Back Story With The Times's John Eligon (mp3)
Related
Sean Bell’s Family and Friends Outraged by Verdict (April 26, 2008)
Acquitted but Facing Uncertain Futures, Detectives Express Their Thanks (April 26, 2008)
Times Topics: Sean Bell
Enlarge This Image
Todd Heisler/The New York Times
The Rev. Al Sharpton, left, and Valerie and William Bell, Sean Bell’s parents, leaving the courthouse after the verdict.
Detective Michael Oliver, who fired 31 bullets the night of the shooting and faced manslaughter charges, said Justice Arthur J. Cooperman had made a “fair and just decision.”
Justice Cooperman delivered the verdict in State Supreme Court at 9 a.m. Describing the evidence, he said it was reasonable for the detectives to fear that someone in the crowd that night carried a gun. He added that many of the prosecution’s witnesses, including Mr. Bell’s friends and the two wounded victims, were simply not believable. “At times, the testimony of those witnesses just didn’t make sense,” the judge said.
Several supporters of Mr. Bell stormed out of the courtroom, and a few small scuffles followed outside the courthouse. By midafternoon, there were no suggestions of any broader unrest around the city. Mr. Bell’s family and fiancée left without making any comments and drove to visit his grave at the Nassau Knolls Cemetery and Memorial Park in Port Washington.
The verdict comes 17 months to the day since the Nov. 25, 2006, shooting of Mr. Bell, 23, and his friends, Joseph Guzman and Trent Benefield, outside the Club Kalua in Jamaica, Queens, hours before Mr. Bell was to be married.
It was delivered in a packed courtroom. Mr. Bell’s family sat silently as Justice Cooperman spoke from the bench. Behind them, a woman was heard to ask, “Did he just say, ‘Not guilty?’ ” Detective Oliver and the two other defendants, Detectives Gescard F. Isnora and Marc Cooper, were escorted out a side doorway as court adjourned.
The acquittals do not necessarily mean the officers’ legal battles are over. Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly said the three men could still face disciplinary action from the Police Department, but that he had been asked to wait on any internal measures until the United States attorney’s office determines whether or not it would pursue federal charges against them.
The seven-week trial, which ended on April 14, was heard by Justice Cooperman after the defendants waived their right to a jury, a strategy some lawyers called risky at the time. But it clearly paid off.
Before rendering his verdict, Justice Cooperman ran through a narrative of the chilly November evening when Mr. Bell died, and concluded “the police response with respect to each defendant was not found to be criminal.”
“The people have not proved beyond a reasonable doubt” that each defendant was not justified in shooting, the judge said, quickly adding that the men were not guilty of all of the eight counts, five felonies and three misdemeanors against them.
Roughly 30 court officers stood by, around the courtroom and in the aisles. At one point as he read, Justice Cooperman paused to insist that a crying baby be taken from the courtroom. Immediately a young woman who appeared to be among the Bell contingent got up and left with a baby.
The Rev. Al Sharpton accompanied Bell family members to the cemetery, and said later that they will join him on Saturday at a rally protesting the verdict. He said he had spoken to the governor and the mayor, and that he believed a federal civil rights prosecution of the officers would be appropriate.
“This verdict is one round down, but the fight is far from over,” Mr. Sharpton said.
He promised protests “to demonstrate to the federal government that New Yorkers will not take this abortion of justice lying down.” He even raised the possibility of taking protests directly to Justice Cooperman’s home.
Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg called for calm. “There are no winners in a trial like this,” he said. “An innocent man lost his life, a bride lost her groom, two daughters lost their father and a mother and a father lost their son.”
The mayor continued: “Judge Cooperman’s responsibility, however, was to decide the case based on the evidence presented in the courtroom. America is a nation of laws, and though not everyone will agree with the verdicts and opinions issued by the courts, we accept their authority.”
When have Police gotten away with Murder? Site your case, have SOME respect for the people who are here to protect law-abiding citizens and stop calling them pigs, it is possible to decifer what you are trying to say, but nobody is listening because of all of the juvenile tags littering your posts!
Yes, there are police who let the power go to their heads. But your sentiments are similar to those spouted by racists, and murderers alike in that you are classifying all of a certain group as scum...Does one rotten apple TRULY spoil the bunch?
I call the them police or human when they act like it. If you shoot or beat people without reason you are inhuman. They are pigs until proven otherwise. I dont owe them a goddamn thing fly! I call them whatever the hell I want!
yet police shoot people based on skin color daily, and that isnt absurd or noteworthy? You think cops give a crap about people in the projects? Tracy Chapman's song "the police, always come late, if they come at all". Thats the truth my friend. She isnt some liar.
As a rule I dont make friends with people who harm others. It may sound odd but its something I hold dear to.
Police shoot people daily? C'mon now - who's making specious arguments here. If police shot people daily, don't you think that we would be desensitized to it like the Iraq war.
The reason the Philly story is a big deal is because stuff like this doesn't happen daily.
As someone who lives in the city and has a good number of friends who are cops of course I respect them. Hopefully you someday realize that they do much more good as a whole than a few bad apples do. Of course their good works never get as highly publicized as their mistakes. But I guess that's just their role in life.
so you cant see why people like me hate police? Why I would be pissed they would beat people or kill people and then a jury would find them innocent, even in a videotaped beating like rodney king? You cant see why that would make me steamed?
Or how about the fact that I am a radical and have been to protests and have seen videos of police acting in manners I wouldnt condone.
Its funny, people like solat and fly, you are same type of people who are surprised about the high crime rate in inner city philly or are surprised about police beating others in cases like this, but you are the same people who additionally scratch your heads and say "why do people hate police"
The proof is in the pudding.
As I said, people are essentially blind. You say "police have a hard job and could be killed daily", people go "yeah, right on". Then when you say "police kill innocent people daily", people respond like how they did when I said that same line. Its like "what what what?" Its like I speaking french or something
Its like abu gharib. Was it a once in a war thing. or was it the rule? Were they merely bad apples, or do they represent the entire iraq war occupation?
out of millions of police officers, you take a few stories of alleged police brutality and use it as justification that police are "brutal animals".
hmm, ok.
so by that logic, we should take your statement that one in 3 black adult males are imprisoned as proof that black males are also brutal animals?
because when you start throwing out very broad (and very ignorant) generalizations, then you open yourself up to have the same distorted logic thrown right back at you.
Police shoot people daily? C'mon now - who's making specious arguments here. If police shot people daily, don't you think that we would be desensitized to it like the Iraq war.
The reason the Philly story is a big deal is because stuff like this doesn't happen daily.
As someone who lives in the city and has a good number of friends who are cops of course I respect them. Hopefully you someday realize that they do much more good as a whole than a few bad apples do. Of course their good works never get as highly publicized as their mistakes. But I guess that's just their role in life.
So you dont think police shoot and kill people daily? Why is that so ridiculous? If I was to say citizens should and kill police daily, no one would raise an eyebrow or an argument.
its so amazing. I can spout off any ridiculous claim about citizens, about inner city people being heathens and people would eat it up. But once you bad mouth a police officer its like "here come the wolves!".
Why should I respect a basically secret society? Its like I am talking to novices here? You ever seen Crash? Seen the way the police tried to sweep the molestation thing under the rug? Ever heard of the blue line? Ever heard of police and sheriff departments roles in stopping integration?
Name me a social reform or cause in the last 100 years. Womens rights, labor, antiwar, civil rights, environmental reform
What side are the police ALWAYS on? Who is always pepperspraying and brutalizing protesters and citizens?
What side are the police on?
In Eugene, a police officer last year, shot and killed a 18 year old high schooler who was out of control and had a knife. So the police couldnt have used a nonlethal weapon on the kid? They couldnt have pepper sprayed him and grabbed the knife from him? Or negotiated a handover of the knife? Or even shot his foot or something and made it a minor wound?
Guess what happened to the cop? Not a damn thing, he was given the Honorary cop of the year award this year. No joke.
uhh... read a newspaper. Or maybe use the search function. Sean bell, Amadou Diallo, Abner Louima. Sorry to be mean, but those names arent out of nowhere buddy. They are famous cases. Rodney King etc...
So you are going to write off an entire profession made up of millions of people, who do a lot of good, based on the actions of a handful of people? That doesn't make any sense. If you look at any profession you are going to find bad people working in it. Do you think because George Bush is a crappy president then everyone to have the same job before him is also crap by association?
out of millions of police officers, you take a few stories of alleged police brutality and use it as justification that police are "brutal animals".
hmm, ok.
so by that logic, we should take your statement that one in 3 black adult males are imprisoned as proof that black males are also brutal animals?
because when you start throwing out very broad (and very ignorant) generalizations, then you open yourself up to have the same distorted logic thrown right back at you.
The philly police were asked in the last few years, how many harassment and brutality cases have occured in philly?(Philly is notorious for being the place where mumia is, where move was and is, etc...), the police chief said "not a single one". The audience sat stunned, someone said "you mean there wasnt a single assault and harassment charge filed against a single officer". The cheif said "oh, you mean alleged assaults and harassment charges that were filed, there were thousands of those". Thats my view on it. That sums it up/
Yeah I am sorry I am ignorant, I just have a degree in sociology and studied and extensively read people like Morrison, Chomsky, Angelou, baldwin etc...
yeah but I am ignorant. I havent attended various seminars or workshops that deal with race.
yeah I am ignorant though. I dont have an entensive collection of radical and socially aware hip hop, that doesnt speak about bling or women, but speaks about conditions in the inner city (mos def, talib kweli, public enemy, blakc star, dead prez)
and yeah I am ignorant, I havent watched various movies like Slam or Fresh or Menace II Society, Dead Presidents etc... that deal with cops and racism
out of millions of police officers, you take a few stories of alleged police brutality and use it as justification that police are "brutal animals".
hmm, ok.
so by that logic, we should take your statement that one in 3 black adult males are imprisoned as proof that black males are also brutal animals?
because when you start throwing out very broad (and very ignorant) generalizations, then you open yourself up to have the same distorted logic thrown right back at you.
so its alleged abuse now! Who shot amadou diallo, sean bell and others then? If its alleged. And did Abner Louima shove the broom up his own butt then?
I love how you presume to know my education, my knowledge of issues and my opinions as well. its not like I could have my own experiences and views right!
So you are going to write off an entire profession made up of millions of people, who do a lot of good, based on the actions of a handful of people? That doesn't make any sense. If you look at any profession you are going to find bad people working in it. Do you think because George Bush is a crappy president then everyone to have the same job before him is also crap by association?
Well I am a radical activist, so I dont really respect any president. I agree with chomsky when he said "every president since WWII should be tried for cimes against humanity"
out of millions of police officers, you take a few stories of alleged police brutality and use it as justification that police are "brutal animals".
hmm, ok.
so by that logic, we should take your statement that one in 3 black adult males are imprisoned as proof that black males are also brutal animals?
because when you start throwing out very broad (and very ignorant) generalizations, then you open yourself up to have the same distorted logic thrown right back at you.
perfect set up thanks. If you abuse people for 400 plus years. You break them down, you jail them. Abuse them,. Disenfranchise them. Ignore them. Beat them, rape them. Murder them. Taunt them.
What do you think is going to happen? When you throw out generalizations as police do that all people in inner cities are violent gun carrying idiots, then you open yourself to having crap thrown at you.
Anyone responding to the question I have asked now 6 times? When is it ever okay for a citizen to kill a cop, if its okay for a cop to kill a citizen?
Well I am a radical activist, so I dont really respect any president. I agree with chomsky when he said "every president since WWII should be tried for cimes against humanity"
So sorry kel, you aint gonna win that argument!
So by your logic if someone has the exact same job as you and they do something criminal then you in turn are also a criminal because you have the same job as them.
hey, I am honest kel. Given the choice between being protected by a long haired hippie radical, or just as average citizen, or being protected by a cop, the choice is clear to me.
No one responded to my tracy chapman quote. She isnt relaly thought of as a radical, but why would she generalize about police like that? What gives her that right? No one jumped down her throat. She lived it. Thats the difference. No one can question her credibility.
Yet why do you question mine?
Are you gonna question such activists as Chuck D, or Mos Def or Talib Kweli or others who speak on on police brutality? And if not, why?
I am sure if you asked them, they wouldnt have very nice things to say about it!
The philly police were asked in the last few years, how many harassment and brutality cases have occured in philly?(Philly is notorious for being the place where mumia is, where move was and is, etc...), the police chief said "not a single one". The audience sat stunned, someone said "you mean there wasnt a single assault and harassment charge filed against a single officer". The cheif said "oh, you mean alleged assaults and harassment charges that were filed, there were thousands of those". Thats my view on it. That sums it up/
Yeah I am sorry I am ignorant, I just have a degree in sociology and studied and extensively read people like Morrison, Chomsky, Angelou, baldwin etc...
yeah but I am ignorant. I havent attended various seminars or workshops that deal with race.
yeah I am ignorant though. I dont have an entensive collection of radical and socially aware hip hop, that doesnt speak about bling or women, but speaks about conditions in the inner city (mos def, talib kweli, public enemy, blakc star, dead prez)
and yeah I am ignorant, I havent watched various movies like Slam or Fresh or Menace II Society, Dead Presidents etc... that deal with cops and racism
yes, you are extremely ignorant. you've already admitted you're biased against police so why even continue to argue? a degree in sociology qualifies you to do absolutely nothing. is that why you're so angry? I have a degree in psychology, so I imagine we had some of the same classes and same seminars. and? they're both fairly worthless degrees, sociology even moreso than psychology. at least you can take a psychology degree further and do something clinical with it. your viewing of Menace II Society has any relevance whatsoever? lol, seriously, I can't even argue, you're an ignoramus.
perfect set up thanks. If you abuse people for 400 plus years. You break them down, you jail them. Abuse them,. Disenfranchise them. Ignore them. Beat them, rape them. Murder them. Taunt them.
What do you think is going to happen? When you throw out generalizations as police do that all people in inner cities are violent gun carrying idiots, then you open yourself to having crap thrown at you.
Anyone responding to the question I have asked now 6 times? When is it ever okay for a citizen to kill a cop, if its okay for a cop to kill a citizen?
who's been abused for 400 years, and by whom?
can you point to a direct quote where police said that inner city people are violent gun carrying idiots? or are you just making shit up? and if it were said, was it said by ONE cop, or by ALL cops? because you're continuing to make generalizations here so it's important that you clarify.
it's legal to kill a cop if the cop is in the process of attempting to make an illegal arrest. that one's on the books. it is legal for a cop to kill a citizen if the citizen presents a clear and present danger to the cop's or another citizen's life. I believe that one is also on the books.
Comments
Well let me be the first to say that stereotypes don't just pop out of thin air.
Maybe it's these "inner city people's" way of "surviving" that gets them picked up by the cops.
Everybody is a victim all the time! Poor me! It's the cop's fault I'm robbing, stealing and murdering. I personally do not have any problems with the cops. Maybe it's because I don't break the law. Maybe it's because when they pull me over, I pull over. Maybe it's because I don't carry a gun to shoot people with.
Where do you live?
I will be sure to tell the cops not to bother...
Would you rather we take the side of criminals?
You're acting like everyone arrested for crime is innocent.
Can I get some proof that any of the above has actually happened....??
uhh... read a newspaper. Or maybe use the search function. Sean bell, Amadou Diallo, Abner Louima. Sorry to be mean, but those names arent out of nowhere buddy. They are famous cases. Rodney King etc...
If you dont want me acting like everyone arrested for a crime is innocent, maybe I should act like the police, who do the opposite and act like everyone accused of a crime is guilty.
over 60 percent of people in prison are of color. 1 in every 3 african american men is in prison. in wash dc something like 95+ percent of people in prison are african american. You have people like Mumia, and Leonard Peltier and the Wm3. Yeah, I best not suggest that those who are in prison are innocent. That would be a lie. Yeah your right! Its not like there is overwhelming evidence that the majority of african american males are in jail for nonviolent drug offense right! Or that the judicial system favors the rich and white!
Yeah maybe I dont know what I am talking about. Then again I have a degree in sociology and took multiple classes on race, class and the justice system. So then again maybe I know something!
So if african american males that live in basically war zones, arent just trying to survive, what in the hell are the police in that metaphor?
How are the police bettering themselves? Since Rodney King we heard endless crap dribbling from their mouths about how things changed, and how they would be more sensitive to blacks and the poor, about how all that was a thing of the past.
17 years later, you still have racist police.
Gee I wonder why people are so pissed at the police? Could it be because they are a bunch of psycho rabid blood hungry killers who shoot people on little to no pretense?
Nah, I wouldnt want to push my luck with that theory, right no code!
So rodney king and abner louima brought it on themselves? Rodney King beaten 52 times and abner louima raped with a broom by NY's finest. Yeah it was their fault! How stupid of me to overlook the obvious! They deserved it! Gee thanks for clearing that up!
And of course Amadou Diallo, he wasnt armed, and didnt have a knife, and didnt provoke the police, he was just at his vestibule trying to enter his apartment. But of course, that deadly wallet. He shouldnt of had that, he was killed because he was stupid enough to have a wallet. I agree it was his fault.
And sean bell, he shouldnt have been at that strip bar, he shouldnt jhave been unarmed. And he shouldnt have been black.
Yeah now that I see it your way, it makes sense. It was all their fault.
thanks! I can see clearly now!
And of course, those 3 men deserved to be beaten because a fellow cop died. Yeah, again, my eyes are open now!
And the WM3 deserve to be in jail because they listen to heavy metal and like black t shirts.
Gee now I am getting the hang of it. I am officially not a radical anymore!
Yippee!
thanks no code and stickfig! this is great
Anyone want to answer the question thats been asked by me 5 times now. When is it ever okay for a citizen to kill a cop, because it seems like its okay for a cop to do anything to anyone and it is okay and justified. I am gonna keep asking until you cowards who support the pigs answer.
Simple question, why the hesitation?
Either your for fair treatment of all, or your for fairtreatment of none.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
This is the beauty of the U.S.A. -We all have the right to free speech- even if we have a juvenile outlook of the world we live in. This is the problem with Grand Theft Auto- The morons who were sitting in their Parents houses playing this game for the past 10 years have no real concept of reality. Amazing! Respect is not in the vocabulary of a majority of this country's 10-25 year old denomination.
I'm sorry and I know you feel passionately about this, but that is the most absurd thing I've seen on here in a long time.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
i guess its all in how we see the world. Some live in denial, with their head in the sand, others choose to open their eyes and deal with facts and the truth.
If your asking me to bow down and say thanks to a group of folks who belive in the think blue line, who like to keep things quiet and in the group, who are notoriously conservative, racist, brutal and antiwoman, you got another thing coming!
I respect people who do honorable things. Things like speak out, fight for what they believe, do the right thing, arent afraid of being a lone voice in the wilderness and have integrity and morals and values.
Maybe I am missing something but, the police who beat those 3 in philly dont encompass any of those values. i dont respect people who beat and brutalize others. Maybe flyinwhole, thats a quality you admire, but I dont. I dont think shooting people without cause, or shooting people period is admirable. I dont think racism or profiling is admirable.
So unless Serpico joined every Police force in the u.s. I aint gonna be honoring and thanking any police soon!
yet police shoot people based on skin color daily, and that isnt absurd or noteworthy? You think cops give a crap about people in the projects? Tracy Chapman's song "the police, always come late, if they come at all". Thats the truth my friend. She isnt some liar.
As a rule I dont make friends with people who harm others. It may sound odd but its something I hold dear to.
When have Police gotten away with Murder? Site your case, have SOME respect for the people who are here to protect law-abiding citizens and stop calling them pigs, it is possible to decifer what you are trying to say, but nobody is listening because of all of the juvenile tags littering your posts!
Yes, there are police who let the power go to their heads. But your sentiments are similar to those spouted by racists, and murderers alike in that you are classifying all of a certain group as scum...Does one rotten apple TRULY spoil the bunch?
As I said, crawl out from your rock fly and open your goddamn eyes!
THE DIALLO VERDICT: THE OVERVIEW; 4 OFFICERS IN DIALLO SHOOTING ARE ACQUITTED OF ALL CHARGES
E-MAIL
Print
Single-Page
Save
Share
Digg
Facebook
Mixx
Yahoo! Buzz
Permalink
By JANE FRITSCH
Published: February 26, 2000
Four New York City police officers were acquitted today of all charges in the death of Amadou Diallo, the immigrant from Guinea who was fired on 41 times as he stood, unarmed, in the vestibule of his apartment building in the Bronx.
The verdict came in a tense and racially charged case that led to anti-police demonstrations, arrests and a reorganization of the department's Street Crime Unit, to which the officers belonged.
But litigation over the shooting might not be over. After the verdict, Mary Jo White, the United States attorney in Manhattan, announced that her office, which has been monitoring the case from the start, and the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department would review the shooting to determine whether any civil rights laws were violated. And Mr. Diallo's parents plan to file a civil lawsuit against the city. The officers could also face administrative charges within the department.
The shooting occurred about 12:40 a.m. on Feb. 4, 1999, when the four officers, all in street clothes, approached Mr. Diallo on the stoop of his building and fired 41 shots, striking him 19 times, as he retreated inside. The officers, who are white, said they had thought he had a gun. It turned out to be a wallet.
The jurors -- four blacks, including the forewoman, and eight whites -- deliberated for three days before reaching their verdict.
The officers -- Sean Carroll, 37, Edward McMellon, 27, Kenneth Boss, 28, and Richard Murphy, 27 -- were as grim-faced today when the verdicts were read as they were when the trial began four weeks ago. They hung their heads, wiped their eyes and hugged each other and their lawyers. As they left the courthouse without speaking to reporters, they walked silently past a crowd of jeering protesters.
Mr. Diallo's parents, friends and supporters sat quietly through the litany of not guilty verdicts and quickly left the courtroom. His mother's face was streaked with tears.
The jurors told Justice Joseph C. Teresi, who presided over the trial, that they did not want to speak to reporters, and they were escorted out of the courthouse.
During the trial, the officers acknowledged their mistake in shooting Mr. Diallo. The defense lawyers made the officers' testimony the centerpiece of their defense, asserting that the shooting was justified because they had believed Mr. Diallo was grabbing a gun. Officer Carroll sobbed as he described how he had realized his error and held Mr. Diallo's hand as he lay dying.
Their lawyers laid much of the blame for the shooting on Mr. Diallo himself, saying he had behaved suspiciously and had not obeyed the officers' commands to stop.
The chief prosecutor, Eric Warner of the Bronx district attorney's office, had argued that the officers, particularly Officer Carroll, had caused the fatal confrontation by prejudging Mr. Diallo as a possible rapist or robber, and never considering that Mr. Diallo might have had a right to be on the stoop.
Robert Johnson, the Bronx district attorney, said outside the courthouse, ''I'm satisfied that the jurors were fair here.'' But he added, ''This case raises a lot of issues about police tactics.'' People in the Bronx have been ''trying to get the attention of the Police Department for some time,'' he said, ''and this case will do it.''
But others were sharply critical. Former Mayor David N. Dinkins said that he was outraged by the verdict. ''This will send the wrong message to those members of the Street Crime Unit who walk around saying, 'We own the night,' '' Mr. Dinkins said.
The Rev. Al Sharpton, who has been leading protests against the Police Department, said he would push the Justice Department to bring a federal civil rights case. ''This is not the end; this is just the beginning,'' he said. ''We took a detour to Albany and that detour is over.''
Mr. Sharpton also asked for calm, saying, ''Those who believe in Amadou should not betray his memory by acting like those who killed him.''
Outside the courthouse, Kadiatou Diallo, Amadou's mother, said, ''I ask for your calm and prayers.'' She added, ''As we go on for the quest of justice, life, equality -- I thank
3 Detectives Acquitted in Bell Shooting
Sign In to E-Mail or Save This
Print
Single Page
Reprints
Share
Digg
Facebook
Mixx
Yahoo! Buzz
Permalink
By MICHAEL WILSON
Published: April 26, 2008
Three detectives were found not guilty Friday on all charges in the shooting death of Sean Bell, who died in a hail of 50 police bullets outside a club in Jamaica, Queens, in November 2006. The verdict prompted calls for calm from the mayor, angry promises of protests by those speaking for the Bell family and expressions of relief by the detectives.
Skip to next paragraph
Enlarge This Image
Chang W. Lee/The New York Times
The detectives who were acquitted, Gescard F. Isnora, left, Marc Cooper and Michael Oliver, with Michael J. Palladino, president of the Detectives’ Endowment Association, at the union’s headquarters on Friday.
Multimedia
Interactive Graphic
Inside the Sean Bell Case
Graphic
Killed or Injured by Police
Back Story With The Times's John Eligon (mp3)
Related
Sean Bell’s Family and Friends Outraged by Verdict (April 26, 2008)
Acquitted but Facing Uncertain Futures, Detectives Express Their Thanks (April 26, 2008)
Times Topics: Sean Bell
Enlarge This Image
Todd Heisler/The New York Times
The Rev. Al Sharpton, left, and Valerie and William Bell, Sean Bell’s parents, leaving the courthouse after the verdict.
Detective Michael Oliver, who fired 31 bullets the night of the shooting and faced manslaughter charges, said Justice Arthur J. Cooperman had made a “fair and just decision.”
Justice Cooperman delivered the verdict in State Supreme Court at 9 a.m. Describing the evidence, he said it was reasonable for the detectives to fear that someone in the crowd that night carried a gun. He added that many of the prosecution’s witnesses, including Mr. Bell’s friends and the two wounded victims, were simply not believable. “At times, the testimony of those witnesses just didn’t make sense,” the judge said.
Several supporters of Mr. Bell stormed out of the courtroom, and a few small scuffles followed outside the courthouse. By midafternoon, there were no suggestions of any broader unrest around the city. Mr. Bell’s family and fiancée left without making any comments and drove to visit his grave at the Nassau Knolls Cemetery and Memorial Park in Port Washington.
The verdict comes 17 months to the day since the Nov. 25, 2006, shooting of Mr. Bell, 23, and his friends, Joseph Guzman and Trent Benefield, outside the Club Kalua in Jamaica, Queens, hours before Mr. Bell was to be married.
It was delivered in a packed courtroom. Mr. Bell’s family sat silently as Justice Cooperman spoke from the bench. Behind them, a woman was heard to ask, “Did he just say, ‘Not guilty?’ ” Detective Oliver and the two other defendants, Detectives Gescard F. Isnora and Marc Cooper, were escorted out a side doorway as court adjourned.
The acquittals do not necessarily mean the officers’ legal battles are over. Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly said the three men could still face disciplinary action from the Police Department, but that he had been asked to wait on any internal measures until the United States attorney’s office determines whether or not it would pursue federal charges against them.
The seven-week trial, which ended on April 14, was heard by Justice Cooperman after the defendants waived their right to a jury, a strategy some lawyers called risky at the time. But it clearly paid off.
Before rendering his verdict, Justice Cooperman ran through a narrative of the chilly November evening when Mr. Bell died, and concluded “the police response with respect to each defendant was not found to be criminal.”
“The people have not proved beyond a reasonable doubt” that each defendant was not justified in shooting, the judge said, quickly adding that the men were not guilty of all of the eight counts, five felonies and three misdemeanors against them.
Roughly 30 court officers stood by, around the courtroom and in the aisles. At one point as he read, Justice Cooperman paused to insist that a crying baby be taken from the courtroom. Immediately a young woman who appeared to be among the Bell contingent got up and left with a baby.
The Rev. Al Sharpton accompanied Bell family members to the cemetery, and said later that they will join him on Saturday at a rally protesting the verdict. He said he had spoken to the governor and the mayor, and that he believed a federal civil rights prosecution of the officers would be appropriate.
“This verdict is one round down, but the fight is far from over,” Mr. Sharpton said.
He promised protests “to demonstrate to the federal government that New Yorkers will not take this abortion of justice lying down.” He even raised the possibility of taking protests directly to Justice Cooperman’s home.
Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg called for calm. “There are no winners in a trial like this,” he said. “An innocent man lost his life, a bride lost her groom, two daughters lost their father and a mother and a father lost their son.”
The mayor continued: “Judge Cooperman’s responsibility, however, was to decide the case based on the evidence presented in the courtroom. America is a nation of laws, and though not everyone will agree with the verdicts and opinions issued by the courts, we accept their authority.”
I call the them police or human when they act like it. If you shoot or beat people without reason you are inhuman. They are pigs until proven otherwise. I dont owe them a goddamn thing fly! I call them whatever the hell I want!
Police shoot people daily? C'mon now - who's making specious arguments here. If police shot people daily, don't you think that we would be desensitized to it like the Iraq war.
The reason the Philly story is a big deal is because stuff like this doesn't happen daily.
As someone who lives in the city and has a good number of friends who are cops of course I respect them. Hopefully you someday realize that they do much more good as a whole than a few bad apples do. Of course their good works never get as highly publicized as their mistakes. But I guess that's just their role in life.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
Or how about the fact that I am a radical and have been to protests and have seen videos of police acting in manners I wouldnt condone.
Its funny, people like solat and fly, you are same type of people who are surprised about the high crime rate in inner city philly or are surprised about police beating others in cases like this, but you are the same people who additionally scratch your heads and say "why do people hate police"
The proof is in the pudding.
As I said, people are essentially blind. You say "police have a hard job and could be killed daily", people go "yeah, right on". Then when you say "police kill innocent people daily", people respond like how they did when I said that same line. Its like "what what what?" Its like I speaking french or something
Its like abu gharib. Was it a once in a war thing. or was it the rule? Were they merely bad apples, or do they represent the entire iraq war occupation?
hmm, ok.
so by that logic, we should take your statement that one in 3 black adult males are imprisoned as proof that black males are also brutal animals?
because when you start throwing out very broad (and very ignorant) generalizations, then you open yourself up to have the same distorted logic thrown right back at you.
So you dont think police shoot and kill people daily? Why is that so ridiculous? If I was to say citizens should and kill police daily, no one would raise an eyebrow or an argument.
its so amazing. I can spout off any ridiculous claim about citizens, about inner city people being heathens and people would eat it up. But once you bad mouth a police officer its like "here come the wolves!".
Why should I respect a basically secret society? Its like I am talking to novices here? You ever seen Crash? Seen the way the police tried to sweep the molestation thing under the rug? Ever heard of the blue line? Ever heard of police and sheriff departments roles in stopping integration?
Name me a social reform or cause in the last 100 years. Womens rights, labor, antiwar, civil rights, environmental reform
What side are the police ALWAYS on? Who is always pepperspraying and brutalizing protesters and citizens?
What side are the police on?
In Eugene, a police officer last year, shot and killed a 18 year old high schooler who was out of control and had a knife. So the police couldnt have used a nonlethal weapon on the kid? They couldnt have pepper sprayed him and grabbed the knife from him? Or negotiated a handover of the knife? Or even shot his foot or something and made it a minor wound?
Guess what happened to the cop? Not a damn thing, he was given the Honorary cop of the year award this year. No joke.
So yeah I think I have reason to hate cops.
So you are going to write off an entire profession made up of millions of people, who do a lot of good, based on the actions of a handful of people? That doesn't make any sense. If you look at any profession you are going to find bad people working in it. Do you think because George Bush is a crappy president then everyone to have the same job before him is also crap by association?
The philly police were asked in the last few years, how many harassment and brutality cases have occured in philly?(Philly is notorious for being the place where mumia is, where move was and is, etc...), the police chief said "not a single one". The audience sat stunned, someone said "you mean there wasnt a single assault and harassment charge filed against a single officer". The cheif said "oh, you mean alleged assaults and harassment charges that were filed, there were thousands of those". Thats my view on it. That sums it up/
Yeah I am sorry I am ignorant, I just have a degree in sociology and studied and extensively read people like Morrison, Chomsky, Angelou, baldwin etc...
yeah but I am ignorant. I havent attended various seminars or workshops that deal with race.
yeah I am ignorant though. I dont have an entensive collection of radical and socially aware hip hop, that doesnt speak about bling or women, but speaks about conditions in the inner city (mos def, talib kweli, public enemy, blakc star, dead prez)
and yeah I am ignorant, I havent watched various movies like Slam or Fresh or Menace II Society, Dead Presidents etc... that deal with cops and racism
so its alleged abuse now! Who shot amadou diallo, sean bell and others then? If its alleged. And did Abner Louima shove the broom up his own butt then?
I love how you presume to know my education, my knowledge of issues and my opinions as well. its not like I could have my own experiences and views right!
Well I am a radical activist, so I dont really respect any president. I agree with chomsky when he said "every president since WWII should be tried for cimes against humanity"
So sorry kel, you aint gonna win that argument!
perfect set up thanks. If you abuse people for 400 plus years. You break them down, you jail them. Abuse them,. Disenfranchise them. Ignore them. Beat them, rape them. Murder them. Taunt them.
What do you think is going to happen? When you throw out generalizations as police do that all people in inner cities are violent gun carrying idiots, then you open yourself to having crap thrown at you.
Anyone responding to the question I have asked now 6 times? When is it ever okay for a citizen to kill a cop, if its okay for a cop to kill a citizen?
So by your logic if someone has the exact same job as you and they do something criminal then you in turn are also a criminal because you have the same job as them.
No one responded to my tracy chapman quote. She isnt relaly thought of as a radical, but why would she generalize about police like that? What gives her that right? No one jumped down her throat. She lived it. Thats the difference. No one can question her credibility.
Yet why do you question mine?
Are you gonna question such activists as Chuck D, or Mos Def or Talib Kweli or others who speak on on police brutality? And if not, why?
I am sure if you asked them, they wouldnt have very nice things to say about it!
yes, you are extremely ignorant. you've already admitted you're biased against police so why even continue to argue? a degree in sociology qualifies you to do absolutely nothing. is that why you're so angry? I have a degree in psychology, so I imagine we had some of the same classes and same seminars. and? they're both fairly worthless degrees, sociology even moreso than psychology. at least you can take a psychology degree further and do something clinical with it. your viewing of Menace II Society has any relevance whatsoever? lol, seriously, I can't even argue, you're an ignoramus.
who's been abused for 400 years, and by whom?
can you point to a direct quote where police said that inner city people are violent gun carrying idiots? or are you just making shit up? and if it were said, was it said by ONE cop, or by ALL cops? because you're continuing to make generalizations here so it's important that you clarify.
it's legal to kill a cop if the cop is in the process of attempting to make an illegal arrest. that one's on the books. it is legal for a cop to kill a citizen if the citizen presents a clear and present danger to the cop's or another citizen's life. I believe that one is also on the books.
That's funny because it is true. It is like watching a bunch of Bond movies and saying it makes you an expert on international relations.