my point being that i'm tired of these abortion threads threads. it's not like women wake up one day and think they'll terminate their pregnancy. it's no one's business and it doesn't make you a bad person or any different than the day before if you choose not to continue with a pregnancy. it's a private issue.
I understand your opinion of the threads.
I suppose that if it was an issue of circumcision a woman should have no voice?
The debate about abortion isn't solely between conservative men and women. I believe women exist that don't condone abortion either. I think what we need to resolve the debate is total understanding of the issue.
The belief held by many fundamental christians is that at the exact time that conception occurs a soul is born. Honestly, that is a matter of a belief system, and I don't think it should apply to this at all.
Then the question arises of at what point during the process of prenatal development is it acceptable to terminate the life. I will say that it is in fact killing a living organism. It is very well known that fetuses are somewhat aware and learn even within the whom. In my opinion there is a line at which prenatal death should not be available. As another poster mentioned, you should be able to decide rather quickly if you are going to abort. The third trimester in my opinion is basically like murdering a newborn. It is a fully functional, aware, human being.
I fully respect a woman's choice to abort within the first 10 weeks. Even that is quite a long time to choose abortion. It's not a tough decision, you have two options, think about when you have to buy a car or something. You have a lot of options and the decision becomes more difficult. It's all a lot easier if you know the facts first. You can avoid pregnancy as well. That's really the best option.
I never used condoms in my last relationship and she didn't use birth control either. I just pulled out, or technically coitus interruptus, worked every time and I didn't chance it. She obviously trusted me and she had predetermined that she would get an abortion. Well, when she met her husband, she got pregnant almost right away and ended up giving birth to Ayden. I have pictures.
That brings me to happiness. People don't know what they want. Even synthetic happiness is just as good as any other. I argue it's not really synthetic then. One of the happiest dudes I ever met was crippled. He was a great guy to hang with back in the day. I've met some really unhappy people with money. So what I"m saying is, I know people with 4 kids that wouldn't trade them for anything. Guy I work with has 2 jobs and his wife has 1. They have three incomes to support 4 kids and they are basically floating with a house and two vehicles. They don't expect anything else. He works 16 hours a day, 8 in the freezing weather outside. But the guy is great, really happy.
I feel like I can't father a child, but yet I do want a child, a little person. But I'm not with anyone, I'd have to adopt and I can't take care of myself. On the other hand, my life would probably totally change, I wouldn't be so important anymore. I would end up excelling just for the love of a child. Maybe, or maybe I would end up a crackwhore. lol. But anyway, I just think the issue needs some conversation and it's unfortunate that it was turned into a chat thread. :(
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I fully respect a woman's choice to abort within the first 10 weeks. Even that is quite a long time to choose abortion. It's not a tough decision, you have two options, think about when you have to buy a car or something. You have a lot of options and the decision becomes more difficult. It's all a lot easier if you know the facts first. You can avoid pregnancy as well. That's really the best option.
how the fuck would you know ahnimus? have you actually carried life inside you and been in the position of having to choose? what a bullshit thing to say.
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I suppose that if it was an issue of circumcision a woman should have no voice?
Huh? Did I miss something earlier in this thread?
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
though there's no comparison between circumcision and abortion, if you want to trim the hood off your litttle man then i say it's your decision.
I have some strong feelings on this topic. I started a thread on it once. I don't think we'll get into it now.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
how the fuck would you know ahnimus? have you actually carried life inside you and been in the position of having to choose? what a bullshit thing to say.
Relax.
Whenever an abortion thread comes up, you get really aggressive. This thread has been hijacked and any debate has been attacked. I'm curious why you become so angry with this topic. I think this kind of discontent is the reason abortion is still an issue.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I have some strong feelings on this topic. I started a thread on it once. I don't think we'll get into it now.
It's a rough topic too. There are a lot of people on both sides.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Whenever an abortion thread comes up, you get really aggressive. This thread has been hijacked and any debate has been attacked. I'm curious why you become so angry with this topic. I think this kind of discontent is the reason abortion is still an issue.
i get aggressive( though until today in this thread i thought i was showing some restraint) ahnimus because it's no one's business but the woman's. she's the one that has to live with the decision she makes. yes if she is in a relationship she can, if she chooses, discuss it with her partner, but ultimately it is her decision.
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It's a rough topic too. There are a lot of people on both sides.
Actually, I think its far more cut and dried than the abortion issue.
Ha! Cut and dried! Get it? I crack myself up.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
i get aggressive( though until today in this thread i thought i was showing some restraint) ahnimus because it's no one's business but the woman's. she's the one that has to live with the decision she makes. yes if she is in a relationship she can, if she chooses, discuss it with her partner, but ultimately it is her decision.
I'm not sure I completely agree with that sentiment. If a woman is in a relationship with the father of the baby I think he has a right to have some say in the matter.
I hope to never be in that situation, but if I was, I think I'd like to have a say in what happened.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I'm not sure I completely agree with that sentiment. If a woman is in a relationship with the father of the baby I think he has a right to have some say in the matter.
I hope to never be in that situation, but if I was, I think I'd like to have a say in what happened.
well i don't expect you would. but surely you understand that you can't force a woman to continue a pregnancy to term against her will.
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well i don't expect you would. but surely you understand that you can't force a woman to continue a pregnancy to term against her will.
Of course not.
But if I was in a relationship with a woman and found out that she'd had an abortion without even consulting me I think I'd be pretty upset about it.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I guess so, but if she felt that she had to deal with it alone it'd probably be a pretty lousy relationship anyway right?
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I'll just agree to disagree with you on this one Cate. Sounds like it touches a bit of a nerve. I've never been in the situation, so I'm only guessing how I'd feel about it. Just please don't think that I'd ever try to force a woman to have a baby that she didn't want. That's not me at all.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
i get aggressive( though until today in this thread i thought i was showing some restraint) ahnimus because it's no one's business but the woman's. she's the one that has to live with the decision she makes. yes if she is in a relationship she can, if she chooses, discuss it with her partner, but ultimately it is her decision.
So if a man WANTED the abortion, but his female partner didnt, but that man can be forced to economically support that child, and if he's a half decent man he'll be obliged to support it emotionally and physically as well, where do you get off saying that ONLY the woman deals with the decision she makes?
The man is affected by either decision equally. Only a woman would say what you said.
So if a man WANTED the abortion, but his female partner didnt, but that man can be forced to economically support that child, and if he's a half decent man he'll be obliged to support it emotionally and physically as well, where do you get off saying that ONLY the woman deals with the decision she makes?
The man is affected by either decision equally. Only a woman would say what you said.
It takes two to tango, but only one to choose?
Interesting.
i didn't say ONLY the woman deals with the decision she makes.
and where i get off is, that a woman is the only one that can fall pregnant. if a guy doesn't want to take the chance of a partner becoming pregnant then he can abstain or use birth control himself. don't take it as gospel when a woman/girl tells him 'it's okay i'm on the pill'. only a fool would take anyone's word for that. yes it takes two to tango and if he doesn't take responsibility for birth control as well then yes, he may have to take responsibility for a child he didn't want.
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i vote you as the adopting agent of all the unwanted babies that would be forced into existance if abortion was not legal.
How do you feel about the homeless?
I vote you the person that takes them all into your house and feeds them. In fact, I vote you the person that have to provide them employment above minimum wage.
So if a man WANTED the abortion, but his female partner didnt, but that man can be forced to economically support that child, and if he's a half decent man he'll be obliged to support it emotionally and physically as well, where do you get off saying that ONLY the woman deals with the decision she makes?
The man is affected by either decision equally. Only a woman would say what you said.
It takes two to tango, but only one to choose?
Interesting.
Phhhhht. The world is overloaded with children whose fathers aren't taking responsibility financially or emotionally. The guy cuts out, he might get his wages garnished until he gets a job that pays him under the table: The mother cuts out, she gets jailed for neglect.
It's a whole different ballgame, motherhood and fatherhood. Regardless of what it's politically correct to say about equality, the majority of the burdon of parenthood falls to mothers.
If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.
The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
I am completely for a woman's right to choose. Completely. But it seems there are even some within the prochoice movement who believe after a certain amount of months or trimesters, that that power should be taken away from women.
Am I odd in being for abortion ANYTIME in a pregnancy. Anytime. I dont think after the third trimester it should be outlawed.
The way I see it your for abortion or your not for it. I am for it. So abortion anytime during the pregnancy seems fair
and i am completely with you. i'm not a scientist, and i don't know when alive being becomes a human being and starts to feel pain.....
what i do think is that we can't have children being brought into this world where they are unwanted and unloved.....sure they can be adopted, but still it's not the same as when they have real parents who wanted them in the first place and wanted to care for them.
when foetus is destroyed the pain is instant...well once again i don't know but at least pain lasts for one day only for that unborn child.....
but if this kid is born and things don't go as planned a pain will be forever, that kid will be thinking for the rest of his/her life "why my mum left me"
it's just my opinion, comments saying that i'm evil will not be answered, cause i don't want to waste my time, arguing about this
and i am completely with you. i'm not a scientist, and i don't know when alive being becomes a human being and starts to feel pain.....
what i do think is that we can't have children being brought into this world where they are unwanted and unloved.....sure they can be adopted, but still it's not the same as when they have real parents who wanted them in the first place and wanted to care for them.
when foetus is destroyed the pain is instant...well once again i don't know but at least pain lasts for one day only for that unborn child.....
but if this kid is born and things don't go as planned a pain will be forever, that kid will be thinking for the rest of his/her life "why my mum left me"
it's just my opinion, comments saying that i'm evil will not be answered, cause i don't want to waste my time, arguing about this
So, just to clarify, if a 5 year old boy's mother abandons him. We should terminate the boy's life so that he doesn't wonder "Why mom left me?".
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
So, just to clarify, if a 5 year old boy's mother abandons him. We should terminate the boy's life so that he doesn't wonder "Why mom left me?".
Since when is a 5 yo equal to a fetus?
At any rate, it's a silly argument since post-first-trimester abortions are extremely rare and usually involve either very young teens (who may not have even realized they were pregnant until they were farther along) and married women with planned pregnancies who get the terrible news that their unborn has severe or lethal defects and will suffer greatly.
I've never met a woman who was at an obvious stage of pregnancy and had an abortion of a healthy fetus just because she didn't want it ... HAVE YOU?
Comments
I did. You quoted me.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
:rolleyes:
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I understand your opinion of the threads.
I suppose that if it was an issue of circumcision a woman should have no voice?
The debate about abortion isn't solely between conservative men and women. I believe women exist that don't condone abortion either. I think what we need to resolve the debate is total understanding of the issue.
The belief held by many fundamental christians is that at the exact time that conception occurs a soul is born. Honestly, that is a matter of a belief system, and I don't think it should apply to this at all.
Then the question arises of at what point during the process of prenatal development is it acceptable to terminate the life. I will say that it is in fact killing a living organism. It is very well known that fetuses are somewhat aware and learn even within the whom. In my opinion there is a line at which prenatal death should not be available. As another poster mentioned, you should be able to decide rather quickly if you are going to abort. The third trimester in my opinion is basically like murdering a newborn. It is a fully functional, aware, human being.
I fully respect a woman's choice to abort within the first 10 weeks. Even that is quite a long time to choose abortion. It's not a tough decision, you have two options, think about when you have to buy a car or something. You have a lot of options and the decision becomes more difficult. It's all a lot easier if you know the facts first. You can avoid pregnancy as well. That's really the best option.
I never used condoms in my last relationship and she didn't use birth control either. I just pulled out, or technically coitus interruptus, worked every time and I didn't chance it. She obviously trusted me and she had predetermined that she would get an abortion. Well, when she met her husband, she got pregnant almost right away and ended up giving birth to Ayden. I have pictures.
That brings me to happiness. People don't know what they want. Even synthetic happiness is just as good as any other. I argue it's not really synthetic then. One of the happiest dudes I ever met was crippled. He was a great guy to hang with back in the day. I've met some really unhappy people with money. So what I"m saying is, I know people with 4 kids that wouldn't trade them for anything. Guy I work with has 2 jobs and his wife has 1. They have three incomes to support 4 kids and they are basically floating with a house and two vehicles. They don't expect anything else. He works 16 hours a day, 8 in the freezing weather outside. But the guy is great, really happy.
I feel like I can't father a child, but yet I do want a child, a little person. But I'm not with anyone, I'd have to adopt and I can't take care of myself. On the other hand, my life would probably totally change, I wouldn't be so important anymore. I would end up excelling just for the love of a child. Maybe, or maybe I would end up a crackwhore. lol. But anyway, I just think the issue needs some conversation and it's unfortunate that it was turned into a chat thread. :(
how the fuck would you know ahnimus? have you actually carried life inside you and been in the position of having to choose? what a bullshit thing to say.
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Huh? Did I miss something earlier in this thread?
-C Addison
though there's no comparison between circumcision and abortion, if you want to trim the hood off your litttle man then i say it's your decision.
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I have some strong feelings on this topic. I started a thread on it once. I don't think we'll get into it now.
-C Addison
Relax.
Whenever an abortion thread comes up, you get really aggressive. This thread has been hijacked and any debate has been attacked. I'm curious why you become so angry with this topic. I think this kind of discontent is the reason abortion is still an issue.
It's a rough topic too. There are a lot of people on both sides.
i get aggressive( though until today in this thread i thought i was showing some restraint) ahnimus because it's no one's business but the woman's. she's the one that has to live with the decision she makes. yes if she is in a relationship she can, if she chooses, discuss it with her partner, but ultimately it is her decision.
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Actually, I think its far more cut and dried than the abortion issue.
Ha! Cut and dried! Get it? I crack myself up.
-C Addison
ah it's good to see a man who can amuse himself.
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I'm not sure I completely agree with that sentiment. If a woman is in a relationship with the father of the baby I think he has a right to have some say in the matter.
I hope to never be in that situation, but if I was, I think I'd like to have a say in what happened.
-C Addison
well i don't expect you would. but surely you understand that you can't force a woman to continue a pregnancy to term against her will.
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Of course not.
But if I was in a relationship with a woman and found out that she'd had an abortion without even consulting me I think I'd be pretty upset about it.
-C Addison
and you'd deal with it, just as she was doing.
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I guess so, but if she felt that she had to deal with it alone it'd probably be a pretty lousy relationship anyway right?
-C Addison
maybe.
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I'll just agree to disagree with you on this one Cate. Sounds like it touches a bit of a nerve. I've never been in the situation, so I'm only guessing how I'd feel about it. Just please don't think that I'd ever try to force a woman to have a baby that she didn't want. That's not me at all.
-C Addison
So if a man WANTED the abortion, but his female partner didnt, but that man can be forced to economically support that child, and if he's a half decent man he'll be obliged to support it emotionally and physically as well, where do you get off saying that ONLY the woman deals with the decision she makes?
The man is affected by either decision equally. Only a woman would say what you said.
It takes two to tango, but only one to choose?
Interesting.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
i didn't say ONLY the woman deals with the decision she makes.
and where i get off is, that a woman is the only one that can fall pregnant. if a guy doesn't want to take the chance of a partner becoming pregnant then he can abstain or use birth control himself. don't take it as gospel when a woman/girl tells him 'it's okay i'm on the pill'. only a fool would take anyone's word for that. yes it takes two to tango and if he doesn't take responsibility for birth control as well then yes, he may have to take responsibility for a child he didn't want.
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How do you feel about the homeless?
I vote you the person that takes them all into your house and feeds them. In fact, I vote you the person that have to provide them employment above minimum wage.
Where do we stop the nonsense?
It's a whole different ballgame, motherhood and fatherhood. Regardless of what it's politically correct to say about equality, the majority of the burdon of parenthood falls to mothers.
If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.
If a girl made that decision about my fetus without consulting me first, I'd abort her as soon as I found out.
It is better to never have lived at all than to have lived and lost.
and i am completely with you. i'm not a scientist, and i don't know when alive being becomes a human being and starts to feel pain.....
what i do think is that we can't have children being brought into this world where they are unwanted and unloved.....sure they can be adopted, but still it's not the same as when they have real parents who wanted them in the first place and wanted to care for them.
when foetus is destroyed the pain is instant...well once again i don't know but at least pain lasts for one day only for that unborn child.....
but if this kid is born and things don't go as planned a pain will be forever, that kid will be thinking for the rest of his/her life "why my mum left me"
it's just my opinion, comments saying that i'm evil will not be answered, cause i don't want to waste my time, arguing about this
So, just to clarify, if a 5 year old boy's mother abandons him. We should terminate the boy's life so that he doesn't wonder "Why mom left me?".
At any rate, it's a silly argument since post-first-trimester abortions are extremely rare and usually involve either very young teens (who may not have even realized they were pregnant until they were farther along) and married women with planned pregnancies who get the terrible news that their unborn has severe or lethal defects and will suffer greatly.
I've never met a woman who was at an obvious stage of pregnancy and had an abortion of a healthy fetus just because she didn't want it ... HAVE YOU?
Here's why I'm for keeping late term abortion legal: http://www.aheartbreakingchoice.com/kansasstories.html
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