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How can Ed and others be so blind?

musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
edited July 2008 in A Moving Train
I cant think of many people I respect more than Uncle Bruce, Uncle Neil, Dylan, Ed, Bright Eyes, etc...

They exhude class and integrity in a world of fake and lies.

Which makes their support of Obama all the more head scratching.

Matt Taibbi talked about the 2 possible options. Either Obama really is a person who will change things, or he is the epitome of the disturbing lenghts to which the system continues to reinvent and package itself as something it isnt.

Obama isnt radical. He is a centrist. He isnt even antiwar. He will continue to keep troops in the middle east. Every single person I listed above is for pulling ALL troops out of the war. Many were antiwar before the war even began. Uncle Bruce was saying "Impeach Bush" and "bring em home" in 2003.

These are all intelligent rockers, intelligent individuals, who, I think I am not alone in saying this, helped in some way to shape my outlook on politics and life in general.

Obama's wearing the "mellencamp and uncle bruce" rolled up shirts is laughable. Bruce speaks to me and to us.

All Obama and Mccain want is our votes. There isnt gold at the end of the Election 2008 rainbow. Obama is a liar, all politicians are.

What doesnt make sense is why people act like obama is something different? We have hundreds of years of history, and every single election have been let down. Politicians are liars, BY NATURE. Why is obama exempt?

The war wont end by voting politicians into office. Nothing has ever changed by that action. The real power lies in people getting pissed and doing something to stop the madness. I dont put trust in politicians.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • clark_kentclark_kent Posts: 166
    i assume you're voting for nader?
    "You've never been out of college, you don't know what it's like out there. I've worked in the private sector... they expect results." -Ray

    Denny Crane!
  • musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
    I am voting nader but at this point election 2008 doesnt interest me at all. AT ALL! Even if nader called me up personally and asked me to campaign I wouldnt. I am sick of politics. And I am sick of people, especially people I respect falling for a pack of lies every single 4 years. its embarassing.

    The dems got in in 2006 and havent done a damn thing to end the war. Pelosi wont even try to impeach Bush. Ask Reid and Pelosi about ending the war and you will get laughed at.
  • MattyJoeMattyJoe Posts: 1,424
    I don't understand why people view pulling troops out of the Middle East as such a noble, peaceful thing to do. It'll cause more violence and destruction than there was to begin with, both for our troops and for civilians over there. Granted, we should have never gone in, for sure. But pulling out would be a very stupid move.

    In case you haven't noticed (since you're all so busy buying into the horseshit the media spoonfeeds you on a daily basis) things have actually settled down in Iraq. Pulling out will just cause more upheaval. Think gas prices are high now? Just wait until your "total pullout" notions come to fruition. $8 a gallon anyone?
    I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
    -Reagan
  • clark_kentclark_kent Posts: 166
    radiohead33 wrote:
    I am voting nader but at this point election 2008 doesnt interest me at all. AT ALL! Even if nader called me up personally and asked me to campaign I wouldnt. I am sick of politics. And I am sick of people, especially people I respect falling for a pack of lies every single 4 years. its embarassing.

    The dems got in in 2006 and havent done a damn thing to end the war. Pelosi wont even try to impeach Bush. Ask Reid and Pelosi about ending the war and you will get laughed at.

    nader's a politician. have you heard about his stock portfolio? all those corporations he blasts, he owns stock in them. he's the only candidate unwilling to disclose his finances.

    many politicians are liars. many of them are great people. the problem is people like you do not understand the nature of compromise. candidates can talk about their beliefs, and they can talk about what they feel is best for the country or what people want. but when you get in office, you can only do so much. this is a huge country and it is very slow to move or change. think about your high school or college. there are 400+ people in the house. how hard do you think it is to get a consensus on anything there?

    obama's not perfect. neither is ralph nader. those people you look up to recognize, however, that obama is a promising candidate. yes, he is a centrist, but so was john kennedy. when the latter got into office he steadily shifted left as time went on. i see a lot of that in obama. he's a man who understands that america wants change, but only so much. he is a man with hope who is willing to move in small steps.
    "You've never been out of college, you don't know what it's like out there. I've worked in the private sector... they expect results." -Ray

    Denny Crane!
  • musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
    people like me dont know about compromise. The musicians I listed NEVER compromised EVER. How do you reconcile that. You think Tom Waits compromises? Fugazi? Dylan? They do what the hell they want. They dont care about money, they care about art. Politicians only care about votes. To think obama is different in this respect is at the very least naive.

    you dont get an end to a war with a candidate who promises more war. John Kerry was the same way. Why did people act like he was gonna end the war? He never said he was going to.

    clark_kent wrote:
    nader's a politician. have you heard about his stock portfolio? all those corporations he blasts, he owns stock in them. he's the only candidate unwilling to disclose his finances.

    many politicians are liars. many of them are great people. the problem is people like you do not understand the nature of compromise. candidates can talk about their beliefs, and they can talk about what they feel is best for the country or what people want. but when you get in office, you can only do so much. this is a huge country and it is very slow to move or change. think about your high school or college. there are 400+ people in the house. how hard do you think it is to get a consensus on anything there?

    obama's not perfect. neither is ralph nader. those people you look up to recognize, however, that obama is a promising candidate. yes, he is a centrist, but so was john kennedy. when the latter got into office he steadily shifted left as time went on. i see a lot of that in obama. he's a man who understands that america wants change, but only so much. he is a man with hope who is willing to move in small steps.
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    clark_kent wrote:
    nader's a politician. have you heard about his stock portfolio? all those corporations he blasts, he owns stock in them. he's the only candidate unwilling to disclose his finances.

    many politicians are liars. many of them are great people. the problem is people like you do not understand the nature of compromise. candidates can talk about their beliefs, and they can talk about what they feel is best for the country or what people want. but when you get in office, you can only do so much. this is a huge country and it is very slow to move or change. think about your high school or college. there are 400+ people in the house. how hard do you think it is to get a consensus on anything there?

    obama's not perfect. neither is ralph nader. those people you look up to recognize, however, that obama is a promising candidate. yes, he is a centrist, but so was john kennedy. when the latter got into office he steadily shifted left as time went on. i see a lot of that in obama. he's a man who understands that america wants change, but only so much. he is a man with hope who is willing to move in small steps.


    thank you for this post, so now i don't have to bother.


    and hey, while i overall appreciate the thoughts in the first post, i love when people suggest getting 'pissed off'...i agree it's a start, and then what do you do?


    change builds in waves.
    :)


    that said, some of us LIKE centrists.


    as to the post i just read...spare me. people do care about making $$$. if they didn't they wouldn't make any. and true leaders DO know about compromise. the great ones know when to compromise, and when to stick to their guns. however, you mkae it clear your stance...better to do nothing...so enjoy.


    definitely not a thread for me.

    btw - is this Malcom_X with a new name? these posts read eerily familar to his old posts. nothing wrong with stars in your eyes...but you DO have to act on occasion to actually make a difference in some way.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • clark_kentclark_kent Posts: 166
    radiohead33 wrote:
    people like me dont know about compromise. The musicians I listed NEVER compromised EVER. How do you reconcile that. You think Tom Waits compromises? Fugazi? Dylan? They do what the hell they want. They dont care about money, they care about art. Politicians only care about votes. To think obama is different in this respect is at the very least naive.

    you dont get an end to a war with a candidate who promises more war. John Kerry was the same way. Why did people act like he was gonna end the war? He never said he was going to.

    i didnt say obama was different. i said he works in a field where compromise is a necessity. the fact is, 95% of americans wouldn't want ralph nader's policies even if they believed he could be elected.

    musicians have the luxury of being solo. tom waits doesn't have to compromise because he's the only one writing songs. if every 5 years music fans had to get together and vote on whether or not he could continue playing, his career would have been over years ago. hell, look at how many bands break up because they don't compromise. soundgarden split over creative differences. guns'n'roses. the list is a mile long. all because they couldn't compromise.

    politicians have to, it's a necessary part of their job because you can't just walk in and stomp on everyone else and say it will be your way... that's what dictators and george bush do. is that what you want? so instead, you have people who have their beliefs and then work to find some sort of common ground that is acceptable to everyone. it's not easy and fugazi and tom waits and bob dylan couldn't do it in a million years. their job is a cake walk by comparison. so don't act like because some two-bit musician can spout their views and stick to them when nobody is ever pushing them to do otherwise they are superior beings. while we're mentioning it, how much $$$ do you think bob dylan and bruce springsteen and ed vedder have? because i'm guessing it's a hell of a lot more than the "working man." that's a compromise.

    of course, politicians care about votes, they can't even TRY to improve the country if they're not in office.
    "You've never been out of college, you don't know what it's like out there. I've worked in the private sector... they expect results." -Ray

    Denny Crane!
  • clark_kentclark_kent Posts: 166
    decides2dream wrote:
    btw - is this Malcom_X with a new name? these posts read eerily familar to his old posts. nothing wrong with stars in your eyes...but you DO have to act on occasion to actually make a difference in some way.

    wasn't malcolm_x formerly che-guevera?
    "You've never been out of college, you don't know what it's like out there. I've worked in the private sector... they expect results." -Ray

    Denny Crane!
  • MattyJoeMattyJoe Posts: 1,424
    clark_kent wrote:
    i didnt say obama was different. i said he works in a field where compromise is a necessity. the fact is, 95% of americans wouldn't want ralph nader's policies even if they believed he could be elected.

    musicians have the luxury of being solo. tom waits doesn't have to compromise because he's the only one writing songs. if every 5 years music fans had to get together and vote on whether or not he could continue playing, his career would have been over years ago. hell, look at how many bands break up because they don't compromise. soundgarden split over creative differences. guns'n'roses. the list is a mile long. all because they couldn't compromise.

    politicians have to, it's a necessary part of their job because you can't just walk in and stomp on everyone else and say it will be your way... that's what dictators and george bush do. is that what you want? so instead, you have people who have their beliefs and then work to find some sort of common ground that is acceptable to everyone. it's not easy and fugazi and tom waits and bob dylan couldn't do it in a million years. their job is a cake walk by comparison. so don't act like because some two-bit musician can spout their views and stick to them when nobody is ever pushing them to do otherwise they are superior beings. while we're mentioning it, how much $$$ do you think bob dylan and bruce springsteen and ed vedder have? because i'm guessing it's a hell of a lot more than the "working man." that's a compromise.

    of course, politicians care about votes, they can't even TRY to improve the country if they're not in office.

    Excellent post and point.
    I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
    -Reagan
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Change will happen but things happen so slow so just forget about it really...

    check back in 20 years...

    sounds good

    sounds a bout right,...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    clark_kent wrote:
    wasn't malcolm_x formerly che-guevera?



    anything is possible. i don't follow the lineage of ghosts of christmases past, too many and just not important in the scheme of life. :p i just got quite a flashback reading that first post. i do appreciate the passion, although it's more than a wee bit insulting, and rather ironic...to read the OP calling ed et al......'blind.' however, i digress. i just don't understand too many 'rant threads.' there is nothing new here, no real question, and no real suggestion...other than getting pissed off. i've been pissed off the last 8 years, thank you. :)


    comparing musicians to politicians, apples and zucchini! :D what's the point? i don't recall dylan having th talk thru a missle crisis. compromise is NOT a dirty word, in politics...or in life. a life well lived, with wonderful relationships and close ties, requires compromise. the trick to living well, and serving the country, the worl well, is knowing just when to bend, and when not to.


    *blind, corrected term.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • clark_kentclark_kent Posts: 166
    decides2dream wrote:
    anything is possible. i don't follow the lineage of ghosts of christmases past, too many and just not important in the scheme of life. :p i just got quite a flashback reading that first post. i do appreciate the passion, although it's more than a wee bit insulting, and rather ironic...to read the OP calling ed et al......'naive.' however, i digress. i just don't understand too many 'rant threads.' there is nothing new here, no real question, and no real suggestion...other than getting pissed off. i've been pissed off the last 8 years, thank you. :)


    comparing musicians to politicians, apples and zucchini! :D what's the point? i don't recall dylan having th talk thru a missle crisis. compromise is NOT a dirty word, in politics...or in life. a life well lived, with wonderful relationships and close ties, requires compromise. the trick to living well, and serving the country, the worl well, is knowing just when to bend, and when not to.

    pretty much. i just recall reading a dude named che-guevera who had very similarly black and white perspectives on things.
    "You've never been out of college, you don't know what it's like out there. I've worked in the private sector... they expect results." -Ray

    Denny Crane!
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    clark_kent wrote:
    pretty much. i just recall reading a dude named che-guevera who had very similarly black and white perspectives on things.



    well i am amongst the blind. ;)
    at least i am in damn fine company.



    hey, i am a dreamer......


    hope. hope is the underdog.
    :D



    i leave it to those who want to discuss being 'pissed off' and nothing else. :D


    *edit - again corrected term to 'blind.'
    and goodnight!
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • Can You Say Octopus?Can You Say Octopus? Posts: 105
    isnt perfect. But when he talks i feel like things can get better. I havent felt that way in years. I do not care that he is inexperienced with foreign relations, I do not care that he voted certain ways while in the senate, and I most certainly do not care about who his pastor is (or what his pastor believes). The man is intelligent, well spoken and able to think his way through problems. Those three things our current president lacks. If he makes smart decisions about who he surrounds himself with for his cabinet all of the concerns people have can be addressed.

    I do care that our country heads in a new direction. I disagree in that although he is a politician, he has not had his hand in it for very long. I voted for nader in 2000 and regret it because he had good ideas, but absolutely no chance of getting enough votes to do anything about it. I voted for Kerry in 2004 purely out of my intense thick hatred of GWB.

    I will vote for Obama in 2008 with my eyes firmlly entrenched on the future. If he does a shitty job, it has to better than where we are now.

    I hate how people judge musicians and actors for having an opinion. if you dont like what they have to say...do not listen to them. They are entitled to their opinions. Saying that they are dumb is stupid because they are as passionate in what they believe as you are in disagreeing with them.

    I love how political Eddie and Uncle Neil are in their lives. Its refreshing to see someone stand for something. Very few people are brave enough to actually stand for something they passionately believe in, especially musicians. Music is so generic now and having them spout their beliefs adds substance to their work. I saw CSNY on their Bash Bush tour, and it was awesome. They played thirty songs that included neil youngs album Living with War. Sure people bitched about the content, but when he played Rocking in the free world and Ohio people stopped and sang along. Those two hit songs are just as political as his album "Living with War".

    Sorry to Ramble On...heading to bed

    Cheers,
    Adam
    "Music is the glue that holds everything together. Without it, everything would fall apart." --Eddie (From the movie EMPIRE RECORDS)
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    Just because they view the world differently, doesn't mean they are blind.. The guys in Pearl Jam are smart informed guys. I wouldn't question their abilities to make judgments. You have a different opinion and should be proud of that. No need to question them. They have their reasons..
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    clark_kent wrote:
    i didnt say obama was different. i said he works in a field where compromise is a necessity. the fact is, 95% of americans wouldn't want ralph nader's policies even if they believed he could be elected.

    That is bullshit. The majority of American's polled want the same things Nader is pushing for time and time again. The two major parties both poll to the right of what the majority wants. They think we have no options other than them and we wouldn't vote them out....so why should they give you what you ask for? Also the majority of americans polled say they distrust the 2 major parties. So where are you getting your numbers from?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    Can You Say Octopus? wrote:
    But when [Obama] talks i feel like things can get better.
    Ignore his speeches for a second and let's focus on his actions. What has he done that has hinted at ANYTHING changing?? FISA, PATRIOT ACT, condolezza rice gets voted in, support for Israel, death penalty, funding bush's illegal occupation of Iraq.... any help here??
    clark_kent wrote:
    pretty much. i just recall reading a dude named che-guevera who had very similarly black and white perspectives on things.
    speaking of black and white perspectives, I recall someone posting about nuking the entire middle east... that couldn't have been you though, right??
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    That is bullshit.
    careful. some people here tolerate no dissent.
  • clark_kentclark_kent Posts: 166
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    That is bullshit. The majority of American's polled want the same things Nader is pushing for time and time again. The two major parties both poll to the right of what the majority wants. They think we have no options other than them and we wouldn't vote them out....so why should they give you what you ask for? Also the majority of americans polled say they distrust the 2 major parties. So where are you getting your numbers from?

    at the same time? meaning, sure 70% of americans want free health care, but will they pay more taxes to get it and be ok with it funding abortions? sure, nader's individual stances enjoy wide support, but it's his whole package that is a problem.

    as to the 95%, i made it up as a rhetorical device to prove a point. if the majority want what nader wants, why is ANYONE a republican? can you explain that? if everyone is truly a far left liberal, how would the republicans have had even a quarter of the success they do? 30% of the country wouldn't vote for nader solely based on abortion. i know because a lot of my family members are such people. the evangelical vote would NEVER go for nader, no matter how much health care or peace he offered. then there are a lot of business interests who might support some of his measures but fear the impact on business too much. the list goes on and on. you could do the same poll and find out the majority of americans probably want what the dems and republicans want too. but they don't vote that way. why? dems are too soft on national security, or republicans do too much moralizing.

    polls can show that everyone wants everything on his platform. but the polls don't show how much they are willing to give up to get it. thus, the compromise debate. people don't just vote on what they want, they also vote partly based on what they fear. have you ever heard of the prisoner's dilemma?
    "You've never been out of college, you don't know what it's like out there. I've worked in the private sector... they expect results." -Ray

    Denny Crane!
  • clark_kentclark_kent Posts: 166
    _outlaw wrote:
    speaking of black and white perspectives, I recall someone posting about nuking the entire middle east... that couldn't have been you though, right??

    careful. some people here tolerate no dissent..

    that was me. apparently you've never heard of a tongue in cheek response. my point was the situation is far too deep and complex for nader to walk over to jerusalem and ask for peace talks and have everyone go home happy and skipping over rainbows while they sing together.

    and i am big on dissent. i've been dissenting from dubya since day one. hell, i campaigned for nader in 2000. dissent is a necessary corollary of compromise. people starting from different positions and working towards agreement. the problem is, people like you are no different from christian fanatics or muslim terrorists. you view any compromise as something dirty and evil and wrong. any action that is not a hard line liberal stance cannot be considered at all.
    "You've never been out of college, you don't know what it's like out there. I've worked in the private sector... they expect results." -Ray

    Denny Crane!
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    clark_kent wrote:
    people don't just vote on what they want, they also vote partly based on what they fear.
    This is very true. In the west we pay a lot of lip service to intellect and logic, while we mostly blindly operate from unconscious emotional positions. Politicians (and advertisers) know this and opportunistically milk this.

    This is why people are often unable to logically justify Obama responses, and why they deny and justify what cannot be denied and justified. Unconsciousness...

    It's the norm.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • TDMize15TDMize15 Posts: 166
    clark_kent wrote:
    nader's a politician. have you heard about his stock portfolio? all those corporations he blasts, he owns stock in them. he's the only candidate unwilling to disclose his finances.

    many politicians are liars. many of them are great people. the problem is people like you do not understand the nature of compromise. candidates can talk about their beliefs, and they can talk about what they feel is best for the country or what people want. but when you get in office, you can only do so much. this is a huge country and it is very slow to move or change. think about your high school or college. there are 400+ people in the house. how hard do you think it is to get a consensus on anything there?

    obama's not perfect. neither is ralph nader. those people you look up to recognize, however, that obama is a promising candidate. yes, he is a centrist, but so was john kennedy. when the latter got into office he steadily shifted left as time went on. i see a lot of that in obama. he's a man who understands that america wants change, but only so much. he is a man with hope who is willing to move in small steps.

    A refreshing bit of intelligence in a post...
    All the rusted signs, we ignore throughout our lives, choosing the shiny ones instead...

    And he who forgets, will be destined to remember...
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    clark_kent wrote:
    the problem is, people like you are no different from christian fanatics or muslim terrorists. you view any compromise as something dirty and evil and wrong. any action that is not a hard line liberal stance cannot be considered at all.
    ok, I'm done responding to you after this post.

    like I said before, you're not asking me to compromise. I know what a compromise is. you're asking me to take a leap of faith.
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    radiohead33 wrote:
    I cant think of many people I respect more than Uncle Bruce, Uncle Neil, Dylan, Ed, Bright Eyes, etc...
    So basically they're blind because they disagree with you on who they will vote for? Not even who should be the next president (for all you know they love Nader but prefer to do the infamous "vote for the lesser evil"), but just who they want to vote for?
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    I'm voting for T. Boone Pickens....


    ....just kidding, I'm not voting for any of those crooks and liars.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    Can You Say Octopus? wrote:
    isnt perfect. But when he talks i feel like things can get better. I havent felt that way in years. I do not care that he is inexperienced with foreign relations, I do not care that he voted certain ways while in the senate, and I most certainly do not care about who his pastor is (or what his pastor believes). The man is intelligent, well spoken and able to think his way through problems. Those three things our current president lacks. If he makes smart decisions about who he surrounds himself with for his cabinet all of the concerns people have can be addressed.

    I do care that our country heads in a new direction. I disagree in that although he is a politician, he has not had his hand in it for very long. I voted for nader in 2000 and regret it because he had good ideas, but absolutely no chance of getting enough votes to do anything about it. I voted for Kerry in 2004 purely out of my intense thick hatred of GWB.

    I will vote for Obama in 2008 with my eyes firmlly entrenched on the future. If he does a shitty job, it has to better than where we are now.

    I hate how people judge musicians and actors for having an opinion. if you dont like what they have to say...do not listen to them. They are entitled to their opinions. Saying that they are dumb is stupid because they are as passionate in what they believe as you are in disagreeing with them.

    I love how political Eddie and Uncle Neil are in their lives. Its refreshing to see someone stand for something. Very few people are brave enough to actually stand for something they passionately believe in, especially musicians. Music is so generic now and having them spout their beliefs adds substance to their work. I saw CSNY on their Bash Bush tour, and it was awesome. They played thirty songs that included neil youngs album Living with War. Sure people bitched about the content, but when he played Rocking in the free world and Ohio people stopped and sang along. Those two hit songs are just as political as his album "Living with War".

    Sorry to Ramble On...heading to bed

    Cheers,
    Adam

    well stated...
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    it all boils down to one thing ... HOPE ... hope that america can be a better america ... hope that the last 8 years has taught the american public something ... the way the system works - you have but 2 choices ... people aren't interested in getting mired in the details - they want to hear that things will change ... for the better ... and at this stage - that is good enough ... it is far better to vote for someone you think can win and potentially do good then vote for someone who can't win - that is why I think many are voting for obama ...
  • MattyJoeMattyJoe Posts: 1,424
    I like how people just throw the word change around, but really they don't even know what it is Obama wants to change. His change would bring a period of dearth to the economy. That guy truly knows nothing when it comes to economics. He said a while ago something like the economy is doing so bad we've just "gotta be" in a recession, "we've just gotta be!"

    DUMBASS.
    I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
    -Reagan
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    MattyJoe wrote:
    I like how people just throw the word change around, but really they don't even know what it is Obama wants to change. His change would bring a period of dearth to the economy. That guy truly knows nothing when it comes to economics. He said a while ago something like the economy is doing so bad we've just "gotta be" in a recession, "we've just gotta be!"

    DUMBASS.

    so, who should we vote for...?
  • clark_kentclark_kent Posts: 166
    angelica wrote:
    This is very true. In the west we pay a lot of lip service to intellect and logic, while we mostly blindly operate from unconscious emotional positions. Politicians (and advertisers) know this and opportunistically milk this.

    This is why people are often unable to logically justify Obama responses, and why they deny and justify what cannot be denied and justified. Unconsciousness...

    It's the norm.

    i didn't mean it like that actually. you say it like it's a bad thing and utterly irrational to vote based on fear. it's not. i refer to the prisoner's dilemma, a very simple concept.

    the fact is, maybe we all do want free health care. the flip side is, we fear candidate b is not serious enough about national security and that scares us. there is not illogical, denying, or unjustified it balancing those concerns. fear is not ipso facto an unconscious, irrational response.
    "You've never been out of college, you don't know what it's like out there. I've worked in the private sector... they expect results." -Ray

    Denny Crane!
  • IAmMyselfIAmMyself Posts: 671
    clark_kent wrote:
    that was me. apparently you've never heard of a tongue in cheek response. my point was the situation is far too deep and complex for nader to walk over to jerusalem and ask for peace talks and have everyone go home happy and skipping over rainbows while they sing together.

    and i am big on dissent. i've been dissenting from dubya since day one. hell, i campaigned for nader in 2000. dissent is a necessary corollary of compromise. people starting from different positions and working towards agreement. the problem is, people like you are no different from christian fanatics or muslim terrorists. you view any compromise as something dirty and evil and wrong. any action that is not a hard line liberal stance cannot be considered at all.


    I would absolutely love to set down and have a conversation with you someday. It is extremely refreshing to read points by someone who actually knows what they are talking about, imo.

    Not just this post, but every post you wrote, just kept putting a bigger smile on my face. Thanks! I agree with everything you've said, and I hope I read many more posts from you!
    I hope you keep the passion, because you have the words to be able to open people's minds.
    "Please help me to help you, help yourself." EV
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