i havent heard it in this thread yet, but i've seen it on other threads here on the moving train talking about how iraqis will reject democracy, which is complete b.s. i KNOW that the majority of people will pick freedom over controlled slavery, thats just fact.
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...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
and end decades of one group dominating, hating, killing, etc. at least now there is a chance that cycle can end.
...just dont tell that to any liberal, because it makes too much sense...
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...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
If you don't agree with me your against me. Life isn't black and white no matter how much you try bring it down to that level.
if someone says to me 'i don't agree with you', then i don't find that threatening and i don't think they are against me.
if someone says to me 'i don't agree with you, and most people think you are a cunt', that puts a whole new meaning on it.
To me, it doesn't get any more black and white than that.
if we create a democracy there, not everyone will love america, we dont expect them to, but it will create a country for iraqis that will be much stronger in the future then when under rule of saddam..
And you seriously think that's why we invaded Iraq?
And you seriously think that's why we invaded Iraq?
doesnt matter why. cant change the fact that we invaded. it happened. the last few years of this war have been to right the wrong of the invasion. help build a country, help build an army, help build security, help build confidence back in the people.
And you seriously think that's why we invaded Iraq?
i dont think thats the only reason, the main reason was to eliminate a dictator that suppressed his own people, and was a threat to the well being of the u.s., do you really think that after the events of 9/11, we should have stood by and just waited to see what saddam would have done after bin laden was so successful?? do you forget that iraq was a huge threat to us for decades??
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...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
if someone says to me 'i don't agree with you', then i don't find that threatening and i don't think they are against me.
if someone says to me 'i don't agree with you, and most people think you are a cunt', that puts a whole new meaning on it.
To me, it doesn't get any more black and white than that.
I was pointing the effect of U.S foriegn policy, and of the U.S government in general, on people's perceptions of America. In my experience, most people I've met - especially in the past 8 or so years - have decided that Americans are mostly flag waving, war mongering morons.
This is just the effect that your government has had on the world. It's a shame. The article that Mammassan posted here a few days ago from a Pakistani fella discussed this issue.
I was pointing the effect of U.S foriegn policy, and of the U.S government in general, on people's perceptions of America. In my experience, most people I've met - especially in the past 8 or so years - have decided that Americans are mostly flag waving, war mongering morons.
This is just the effect that your government has had on the world. It's a shame. The article that Mammassan posted here a few days ago from an Indian fella discussed this issue.
its perception and just like with most things, if your actually there and talking to real people instead of watching the tv, things get distorted, then you think after a 30 second news clip, thats the absolute truth and nothing else can make sense, if we all just made common sense with everthing, there would be alot less arguments im sure..and please byrnzie dont turn this into a joke on the the current administration, i beg you....
8.29.00-4.29.03-4.30.03-5.2.03-7.2.03-7.3.03-7.8.03-7.9.03-7.11.03-9.28.04-9.29.04-10.1.04- 10.2.04-10.3.04-5.12.06-5.24.06-5.25.06
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
i dont think thats the only reason, the main reason was to eliminate a dictator that suppressed his own people, and was a threat to the well being of the u.s., do you really think that after the events of 9/11, we should have stood by and just waited to see what saddam would have done after bin laden was so successful?? do you forget that iraq was a huge threat to us for decades??
Iraq was a threat to the U.S? Really? When? And how? I must have missed that episode of the 9 o'clock news.
I'm not just arguing with you here for the sake of it, but you didn't invade Iraq in order to remove Sadaam. That was just a ruse. The American government knew full well that Iraq posed no threat to the U.S, and this is stated clearly in many documents and manifesto's by the power elite prior to 9/11. Just take a look at the 'Project for a new American century' website and you'll see what the thinking was at the time concerning Iraq.
The invasion was never about removing Sadaam, just as it never had anything to do with 9/11. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, period.
This was primarily about control of Middle Eastern oil, and also a nice little gift to America's no.1 exporters - the arms traders.
I was pointing the effect of U.S foriegn policy, and of the U.S government in general, on people's perceptions of America. In my experience, most people I've met - especially in the past 8 or so years - have decided that Americans are mostly flag waving, war mongering morons.
This is just the effect that your government has had on the world. It's a shame. The article that Mammassan posted here a few days ago from a Pakistani fella discussed this issue.
Iraq was a threat to the U.S? Really? When? And how? I must have missed that episode of the 9 o'clock news.
I'm not just arguing with you here for the sake of it, but you didn't invade Iraq in order to remove Sadaam. That was just a ruse. The American government knew full well that Iraq posed no threat to the U.S, and this is stated clearly in many documents and manifesto's by the power elite prior to 9/11. Just take a look at the 'Project for a new American century' website and you'll see what the thinking was at the time concerning Iraq.
The invasion was never about removing Sadaam, just as it never had anything to do with 9/11. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, period.
This was primarily about control of Middle Eastern oil, and also a nice little gift to America's no.1 exporters - the arms traders.
so when our intelligence told us that large factions of terrorists where in iraq and they were harboring wmd's then its smart for us to stand back and wait for another attack on our soil? are you serious?
8.29.00-4.29.03-4.30.03-5.2.03-7.2.03-7.3.03-7.8.03-7.9.03-7.11.03-9.28.04-9.29.04-10.1.04- 10.2.04-10.3.04-5.12.06-5.24.06-5.25.06
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
its perception and just like with most things, if your actually there and talking to real people instead of watching the tv, things get distorted, then you think after a 30 second news clip, thats the absolute truth and nothing else can make sense, if we all just made common sense with everthing, there would be alot less arguments im sure..and please byrnzie dont turn this into a joke on the the current administration, i beg you....
I know. I spent a couple of weeks in America a few years ago, and before I went I was partly of the same opinion as most other people I know - i.e, allowing my opnion of 'America' and 'Americans' to be clouded by the current Bush lunacy e.t.c.
After going back to America, however, and speaking to various people, I realised how stupid I'd been. Most Americans are just normal, decent people like everyone else, and are largely curious and open to other ideas when discussing anything.
It's just a shame that the media in your country is responsible for feeding the public so much blinkered bullshit.
I know. I spent a couple of weeks in America a few years ago, and before I went I was partly of the same opinion as most other people I know - i.e, allowing my opnion of 'America' and 'Americans' to be clouded by the current Bush lunacy e.t.c.
After going back to America, however, and speaking to various people, I realised how stupid I'd been. Most Americans are just normal, decent people like everyone else, and are largely curious and open to other ideas when discussing anything.
It's just a shame that the media in your country is responsible for feeding the public so much blinkered bullshit.
I know. I spent a couple of weeks in America a few years ago, and before I went I was partly of the same opinion as most other people I know - i.e, allowing my opnion of 'America' and 'Americans' to be clouded by the current Bush lunacy e.t.c.
After going back to America, however, and speaking to various people, I realised how stupid I'd been. Most Americans are just normal, decent people like everyone else, and are largely curious and open to other ideas when discussing anything.
It's just a shame that the media in your country is responsible for feeding the public so much blinkered bullshit.
ok, now where getting somewhere...
8.29.00-4.29.03-4.30.03-5.2.03-7.2.03-7.3.03-7.8.03-7.9.03-7.11.03-9.28.04-9.29.04-10.1.04- 10.2.04-10.3.04-5.12.06-5.24.06-5.25.06
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
so when our intelligence told us that large factions of terrorists where in iraq and they were harboring wmd's then its smart for us to stand back and wait for another attack on our soil? are you serious?
Your intelligence told you nothing of the sort. Remember the weapons inspectors found nothing.
The only intelligence being flaunted by Colin Powell at the U.N was of some warehouses and some empty-trailers on the back of trucks which he claimed could be used to transport wmd's. Let's face it, there was no case for war. Everyone knew it was all a bunch of lies, which is why millions took to the streets before the invasion to protest.
Interesting article. Some slightly misguided opinions expressed in it though:
'The Muslims "who are focused on the internal aspects of America, who are more concerned about their future than the people back home, they realize that they have enormous opportunities."
'If you look at European Muslims, they are living in ghettoes...'
'Yes, "there is still bloodshed and uncertainty," she told the Republicans in New York, "but America, under the strong, compassionate leadership of President Bush, has given Iraqis the most precious gift any nation has ever given another--the gift of democracy and the freedom to determine its own future."
Comments
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
if someone says to me 'i don't agree with you, and most people think you are a cunt', that puts a whole new meaning on it.
To me, it doesn't get any more black and white than that.
And you seriously think that's why we invaded Iraq?
doesnt matter why. cant change the fact that we invaded. it happened. the last few years of this war have been to right the wrong of the invasion. help build a country, help build an army, help build security, help build confidence back in the people.
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
I was pointing the effect of U.S foriegn policy, and of the U.S government in general, on people's perceptions of America. In my experience, most people I've met - especially in the past 8 or so years - have decided that Americans are mostly flag waving, war mongering morons.
This is just the effect that your government has had on the world. It's a shame. The article that Mammassan posted here a few days ago from a Pakistani fella discussed this issue.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/20/AR2007072001806_pf.html
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
Iraq was a threat to the U.S? Really? When? And how? I must have missed that episode of the 9 o'clock news.
I'm not just arguing with you here for the sake of it, but you didn't invade Iraq in order to remove Sadaam. That was just a ruse. The American government knew full well that Iraq posed no threat to the U.S, and this is stated clearly in many documents and manifesto's by the power elite prior to 9/11. Just take a look at the 'Project for a new American century' website and you'll see what the thinking was at the time concerning Iraq.
The invasion was never about removing Sadaam, just as it never had anything to do with 9/11. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, period.
This was primarily about control of Middle Eastern oil, and also a nice little gift to America's no.1 exporters - the arms traders.
http://www.ijtihad.org/Muslims-love-America.htm
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
I know. I spent a couple of weeks in America a few years ago, and before I went I was partly of the same opinion as most other people I know - i.e, allowing my opnion of 'America' and 'Americans' to be clouded by the current Bush lunacy e.t.c.
After going back to America, however, and speaking to various people, I realised how stupid I'd been. Most Americans are just normal, decent people like everyone else, and are largely curious and open to other ideas when discussing anything.
It's just a shame that the media in your country is responsible for feeding the public so much blinkered bullshit.
cool. you should come visit more often
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
Your intelligence told you nothing of the sort. Remember the weapons inspectors found nothing.
The only intelligence being flaunted by Colin Powell at the U.N was of some warehouses and some empty-trailers on the back of trucks which he claimed could be used to transport wmd's. Let's face it, there was no case for war. Everyone knew it was all a bunch of lies, which is why millions took to the streets before the invasion to protest.
Interesting article. Some slightly misguided opinions expressed in it though:
'The Muslims "who are focused on the internal aspects of America, who are more concerned about their future than the people back home, they realize that they have enormous opportunities."
'If you look at European Muslims, they are living in ghettoes...'
'Yes, "there is still bloodshed and uncertainty," she told the Republicans in New York, "but America, under the strong, compassionate leadership of President Bush, has given Iraqis the most precious gift any nation has ever given another--the gift of democracy and the freedom to determine its own future."