last i checked we are developing new technologies, but until we can market it in a way thats feasable for companies to make a profit, then its not going to happen...in case we've forgotten, we live in a capitalistic society here in the usa...hybrid cars are the first step, you can say fuck oil, but its the most important natural resource on earth at the moment and it does alot more than help run your car, check back into reality, if guarantee if this situation was turned around, if a democrat was the president during the past two terms, all of the media would be very sympathetic about president gores rebuilding of iraq, and how great it is that he's trying his darndest to make it a sweet little democracy....
exactly why we need the government to step in on this and provide major funding... INSTEAD of flushing it down the oil well in Iraq...
oh BTW...
FUCK OIL
P.S. Dont play that Gore vs. Bush bullshit and the Liberal Media... take a look at who the fuck owns "major media". This war is fucked and anyone in power would be called on the way it was handled.
exactly why we need the government to step in on this and provide major funding... INSTEAD of flushing it down the oil well in Iraq...
oh BTW...
FUCK OIL
really intelligent. fuck oil. guess what we need oil. create an alternative, then you would sound like a genius saying fuck oil. until then, you are just another guy with a big mouth who uses oil everyday in order to survive.
really intelligent. fuck oil. guess what we need oil. create an alternative, then you would sound like a genius saying fuck oil. until then, you are just another guy with a big mouth who uses oil everyday in order to survive.
i hear about democrats promising their supporters that the first thing they will do in office is get the troops out of iraq, how does this train of thought even make sense, and why do any of you agree with it??
well, in 1974 they said we shouldn't have left Vietnam. Millions would be slaughtered and communism would swallow the free world.
we left and millions (give or take) were slaughtered in Cambodia and elsewhere and 30 years later....
Vietnam is a prime vacation spot and poised to be a major economic power.
I say pull em out, they'll figure it out (with some diplomatic guidence).
come on guys, like we ever really gave a shit about the iraqis. If we did we wouldn't have fucked up their country in the first place.
did you come up with that one on your own? Or did you steal that one from Bush?
I stole that from bush is that what you wanted to hear?
do you drive a car? do 250 million americans drive cars? do 100 million people in the northeast use oil to heat their homes? your right fuck oil we dont need it. yea go obama!
I stole that from bush is that what you wanted to hear?
do you drive a car? do 250 million americans drive cars? do 100 million people in the northeast use oil to heat their homes? your right fuck oil we dont need it. yea go obama!
When did I say we dont need it? And when did Obama say that? Odd I've never heard that.
I think we all need to remember there are options between imediate withdrawl and staying there forever. Seems the media and everybody else wants to frame Iraq as only these two options.
My two cents is this
- Continue to stay for maybe another year with as many troops as our military can support. Let our election pass.
- With so much of the country "pacified", change our strategy to focus on building up and training Iraqi security forces.
- If things continue to stay "relatively" calm during this time, then we tell Iraqi leadership behind closed doors that we are leaving
- Then implement a gradual withdrawl of troops, streched over maybe two years.
- By 2011 we should only have maybe 20 to 30 thousand troops in country in a support and training role for the Iraqi military.
I think it is pretty clear that the current rulings/working class in Iraq are more interested in ethnic/religious/tribal in-fighting than coming together. We're probably going to have to wait for the next generation for true reform to take hold. Until then, we don't need to have 180,000 troops in Iraq, but we do need to keep the place from falling apart.
We need to keep the door of democracy cracked in Iraq, and wait for the next generation to come along and kick it open when they are ready for it, and prepared to fight for it.
But to precipitously pull all our troops out in a "we're getting the fuck out of here" manor laced with "you're own your own/this place is helpless" overtones would be disaterous. The weak government would crumble and then we'd have an armed Iraqi military fracture and join various groups, as a massive civil war would break out. This civil war would probably last several years, and the country would decend into chaos. More Al Qaida, more suicide bombins, more civilians killed, more refugees. Basically any chance of a stable country there in the next 20 years would vanish.
Lets at least set the stage so they have a chance....
From day 1 this war was completely mismanaged. Every single word of advice that was offered from experts and professionals on how this war should be carried out and what short term objectives needed to be met in order to achieve long term goals has been ignored. As if this administrations ineptitude was not enough the Iraqi government has failed to meet the majority of it's goals and objectives and they seem little interested in making the sacrifices necessary to do so. Now why should US soldiers continue to loose lives and limbs for a people who seem extremely reluctant to put aside tribal/cultural/religious differences for what amounts to the better good of the country. This is a country whose government decided that while the entire country was slipping into chaos it would take a month long recess. Enough troops have died in a war based on lies and deception. I am a firm believer that since we created the mess over there that we should at the very least help clean it up, but when the very people of that country are not willing to aid us in the process then we need to acknowledge that we attempted to make up for our mistake but the task proved to big, pack up and go home.
So you believe that the war was justified, just mismanaged? And at what point did you offer to 'clean up the mess and go home'? You make it sound like the U.S made a big sacrifice for a bunch of ungrateful people who prefer chaos and death. Strange way of looking at it.
I think we all need to remember there are options between imediate withdrawl and staying there forever. Seems the media and everybody else wants to frame Iraq as only these two options.
My two cents is this
- Continue to stay for maybe another year with as many troops as our military can support. Let our election pass.
- With so much of the country "pacified", change our strategy to focus on building up and training Iraqi security forces.
- If things continue to stay "relatively" calm during this time, then we tell Iraqi leadership behind closed doors that we are leaving
- Then implement a gradual withdrawl of troops, streched over maybe two years.
- By 2011 we should only have maybe 20 to 30 thousand troops in country in a support and training role for the Iraqi military.
I think it is pretty clear that the current rulings/working class in Iraq are more interested in ethnic/religious/tribal in-fighting than coming together. We're probably going to have to wait for the next generation for true reform to take hold. Until then, we don't need to have 180,000 troops in Iraq, but we do need to keep the place from falling apart.
We need to keep the door of democracy cracked in Iraq, and wait for the next generation to come along and kick it open when they are ready for it, and prepared to fight for it.
But to precipitously pull all our troops out in a "we're getting the fuck out of here" manor laced with "you're own your own/this place is helpless" overtones would be disaterous. The weak government would crumble and then we'd have an armed Iraqi military fracture and join various groups, as a massive civil war would break out. This civil war would probably last several years, and the country would decend into chaos. More Al Qaida, more suicide bombins, more civilians killed, more refugees. Basically any chance of a stable country there in the next 20 years would vanish.
Lets at least set the stage so they have a chance....
as it stands now they do not have a chance. no country in history has ever been given "freedom" or democracy from another country. it has come about from civil war and the people rising up and taking it themselves. we fucked up big time in iraq. the collective american ego took on a task that was impossible and fucked from the beginning.
as i see it, we can either continue to pay trillions of dollars and keep a major military presence over there and get our soldiers killed in the middle of sectarian violence, or we can bring them home and let the iraqis duke it out themselves. we are not stopping the sectarian bombings that occur everyday, which as a secuirty force we are failing miserably. if we were succeeding there would be less bombings. we don't have enough of a military presence to react here should we be attacked by WMDS here at home, which was all over the press yesterday. its been 5 years since "mission accomplished" and we have nothing to show for it other than stacks of bodies, soldiers and contractors going crazy and killing civillians and other soldiers, and a recession back here because all of our money is sunken into that sand pit in iraq. i say bring them home. its been way too long and way too expensive.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
...honestly, i dont think muslims deserve respect, they are extremely dangerous as their continous suicide bombings show...
Honestly, I don't think American war mongers deserve respect. They are extremely dangerous as their continuous bombings, and invasions of foreign countries, coupled with their unconditional support of Israeli terror show...
Honestly, I don't think American war mongers deserve respect. They are extremely dangerous as their continuous bombings, and invasions of foreign countries, coupled with their unconditional support of Israeli terror show...
uh oh, Byrnzie went there lol....this is going to get interesting in a few minutes...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
and i guess most everyone here forgot that we, the united states, are in a war on terror...its a constant struggle to keep our country safe and not let another 9/11 happen, which our president has succeeded, like it or not, and if we dont continue to be on the offensive, then we will open ourselves up to another attack by being defensive...our military defends and dies for our freedom everyday, dont ever forget it.
It was predicted by top U.S advisors before the invasion of Iraq that the invasion would significantly increase terrorism in the world. Bush and his cronies decided to Invade anyway. This alone proves that these greed head Oil men couldn't give a fuck about yours, or anyone elses, saftey.
It was predicted by top U.S advisors before the invasion of Iraq that the invasion would significantly increase terrorism in the world. Bush and his cronies decided to Invade anyway. This alone proves that these greed head Oil men couldn't give a fuck about yours, or anyone elses, saftey.
that is difficult for most americans to swallow, we traditionally have had great trust in our leaders. personally i have learned my lesson and will never trust another politician again. btw, you are correct here.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Honestly, I don't think American war mongers deserve respect. They are extremely dangerous as their continuous bombings, and invasions of foreign countries, coupled with their unconditional support of Israeli terror show...
oh yeah, you live in england, keep letting us do all the dirty work and you and your country keep talking while we keep doing
8.29.00-4.29.03-4.30.03-5.2.03-7.2.03-7.3.03-7.8.03-7.9.03-7.11.03-9.28.04-9.29.04-10.1.04- 10.2.04-10.3.04-5.12.06-5.24.06-5.25.06
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
Honestly, I don't think American war mongers deserve respect. They are extremely dangerous as their continuous bombings, and invasions of foreign countries, coupled with their unconditional support of Israeli terror show...
we're showing the world a very clear message: you fuck with us, and you'll get fucked, hard...i like being on our side....
8.29.00-4.29.03-4.30.03-5.2.03-7.2.03-7.3.03-7.8.03-7.9.03-7.11.03-9.28.04-9.29.04-10.1.04- 10.2.04-10.3.04-5.12.06-5.24.06-5.25.06
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
your fucking insane and stupid. dangerous combo man.... wtf does this even mean??? Dirty Work???
fighting islamic fascism...its been going on for a few years now, check your local newspaper...
8.29.00-4.29.03-4.30.03-5.2.03-7.2.03-7.3.03-7.8.03-7.9.03-7.11.03-9.28.04-9.29.04-10.1.04- 10.2.04-10.3.04-5.12.06-5.24.06-5.25.06
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
oh yeah, you live in england, keep letting us do all the dirty work and you and your country keep talking while we keep doing
Do you seriously think anyone in the world is impressed with American foriegn policy?
Sorry to burst your bubble, but your government have made America the most hated country in the world. Most people just think you're nothing but a bunch of cunts.
we started it, we damn well better finish it the right way
what does that mean?
we don't abandon those who helped us and supported us to be murdered by extremists
we leave Iraq/Afgan a better place than when we came in
we tell the governments of both countries start doing something or we will not continue to spend american lives and money
we leave a government than can govern and continue in a democratic fashion
now the billion dollar question is what is the best way to do all this?
Can we ever leave without is being considered a defeat? Is there an attainable goal that would be considered a victory? If we went there to find WMD's we have already lost, if we went there to make Iraq a safe and democratic country we have a lot of work to do still.
I am not in favor of the McCain 100 year plan, I am also not in favor of the lets start leaving right away plan.
Obama has put it as good as it can be stated(I think this is the quote I may have a word off ): We have to leave Iraq as carefully as we went in carelessly.
now can any of this occur with factions that just don't want to get along?
I still think the only reason we are in Iraq is because Saddam put a hit out on GHWB, and Jr. had to exact his revenge.
we started it, we damn well better finish it the right way
what does that mean?
we don't abandon those who helped us and supported us to be murdered by extremists
we leave Iraq/Afgan a better place than when we came in
we tell the governments of both countries start doing something or we will not continue to spend american lives and money
we leave a government than can govern and continue in a democratic fashion
now the billion dollar question is what is the best way to do all this?
Can we ever leave without is being considered a defeat? Is there an attainable goal that would be considered a victory? If we went there to find WMD's we have already lost, if we went there to make Iraq a safe and democratic country we have a lot of work to do still.
I am not in favor of the McCain 100 year plan, I am also not in favor of the lets start leaving right away plan.
Obama has put it as good as it can be stated(I think this is the quote I may have a word off ): We have to leave Iraq as carefully as we went in carelessly.
now can any of this occur with factions that just don't want to get along?
I still think the only reason we are in Iraq is because Saddam put a hit out on GHWB, and Jr. had to exact his revenge.
nice, thoughtful post, i agree with just about everything you said.
8.29.00-4.29.03-4.30.03-5.2.03-7.2.03-7.3.03-7.8.03-7.9.03-7.11.03-9.28.04-9.29.04-10.1.04- 10.2.04-10.3.04-5.12.06-5.24.06-5.25.06
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
i hear about democrats promising their supporters that the first thing they will do in office is get the troops out of iraq, how does this train of thought even make sense, and why do any of you agree with it??
Do you seriously think anyone in the world is impressed with American foriegn policy?
Sorry to burst your bubble, but your government have made America the most hated country in the world. Most people just think you're nothing but a bunch of cunts.
actually its just guys like you who hate america.
you paint with a wide brush. "most" people in the world hate us huh?
Comments
exactly why we need the government to step in on this and provide major funding... INSTEAD of flushing it down the oil well in Iraq...
oh BTW...
FUCK OIL
P.S. Dont play that Gore vs. Bush bullshit and the Liberal Media... take a look at who the fuck owns "major media". This war is fucked and anyone in power would be called on the way it was handled.
really intelligent. fuck oil. guess what we need oil. create an alternative, then you would sound like a genius saying fuck oil. until then, you are just another guy with a big mouth who uses oil everyday in order to survive.
You have a point here?
FUCK OIL...
well, in 1974 they said we shouldn't have left Vietnam. Millions would be slaughtered and communism would swallow the free world.
we left and millions (give or take) were slaughtered in Cambodia and elsewhere and 30 years later....
Vietnam is a prime vacation spot and poised to be a major economic power.
I say pull em out, they'll figure it out (with some diplomatic guidence).
come on guys, like we ever really gave a shit about the iraqis. If we did we wouldn't have fucked up their country in the first place.
yea my point is that you depend on oil.
did you come up with that one on your own? Or did you steal that one from Bush?
I stole that from bush
do you drive a car? do 250 million americans drive cars? do 100 million people in the northeast use oil to heat their homes? your right fuck oil we dont need it. yea go obama!
When did I say we dont need it? And when did Obama say that? Odd I've never heard that.
You done yet?
i wish someone had a real plan to clean it up.
My two cents is this
- Continue to stay for maybe another year with as many troops as our military can support. Let our election pass.
- With so much of the country "pacified", change our strategy to focus on building up and training Iraqi security forces.
- If things continue to stay "relatively" calm during this time, then we tell Iraqi leadership behind closed doors that we are leaving
- Then implement a gradual withdrawl of troops, streched over maybe two years.
- By 2011 we should only have maybe 20 to 30 thousand troops in country in a support and training role for the Iraqi military.
I think it is pretty clear that the current rulings/working class in Iraq are more interested in ethnic/religious/tribal in-fighting than coming together. We're probably going to have to wait for the next generation for true reform to take hold. Until then, we don't need to have 180,000 troops in Iraq, but we do need to keep the place from falling apart.
We need to keep the door of democracy cracked in Iraq, and wait for the next generation to come along and kick it open when they are ready for it, and prepared to fight for it.
But to precipitously pull all our troops out in a "we're getting the fuck out of here" manor laced with "you're own your own/this place is helpless" overtones would be disaterous. The weak government would crumble and then we'd have an armed Iraqi military fracture and join various groups, as a massive civil war would break out. This civil war would probably last several years, and the country would decend into chaos. More Al Qaida, more suicide bombins, more civilians killed, more refugees. Basically any chance of a stable country there in the next 20 years would vanish.
Lets at least set the stage so they have a chance....
So you believe that the war was justified, just mismanaged? And at what point did you offer to 'clean up the mess and go home'? You make it sound like the U.S made a big sacrifice for a bunch of ungrateful people who prefer chaos and death. Strange way of looking at it.
as it stands now they do not have a chance. no country in history has ever been given "freedom" or democracy from another country. it has come about from civil war and the people rising up and taking it themselves. we fucked up big time in iraq. the collective american ego took on a task that was impossible and fucked from the beginning.
as i see it, we can either continue to pay trillions of dollars and keep a major military presence over there and get our soldiers killed in the middle of sectarian violence, or we can bring them home and let the iraqis duke it out themselves. we are not stopping the sectarian bombings that occur everyday, which as a secuirty force we are failing miserably. if we were succeeding there would be less bombings. we don't have enough of a military presence to react here should we be attacked by WMDS here at home, which was all over the press yesterday. its been 5 years since "mission accomplished" and we have nothing to show for it other than stacks of bodies, soldiers and contractors going crazy and killing civillians and other soldiers, and a recession back here because all of our money is sunken into that sand pit in iraq. i say bring them home. its been way too long and way too expensive.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Honestly, I don't think American war mongers deserve respect. They are extremely dangerous as their continuous bombings, and invasions of foreign countries, coupled with their unconditional support of Israeli terror show...
uh oh, Byrnzie went there lol....this is going to get interesting in a few minutes...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
It was predicted by top U.S advisors before the invasion of Iraq that the invasion would significantly increase terrorism in the world. Bush and his cronies decided to Invade anyway. This alone proves that these greed head Oil men couldn't give a fuck about yours, or anyone elses, saftey.
that is difficult for most americans to swallow, we traditionally have had great trust in our leaders. personally i have learned my lesson and will never trust another politician again. btw, you are correct here.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
no offense...but when you are uninformed of the world..this type of thinking results.
your fucking insane and stupid. dangerous combo man.... wtf does this even mean??? Dirty Work???
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
It's just that you're also fucking yourselves in the process. Nice job you're doing.
Do you seriously think anyone in the world is impressed with American foriegn policy?
Sorry to burst your bubble, but your government have made America the most hated country in the world. Most people just think you're nothing but a bunch of cunts.
what does that mean?
we don't abandon those who helped us and supported us to be murdered by extremists
we leave Iraq/Afgan a better place than when we came in
we tell the governments of both countries start doing something or we will not continue to spend american lives and money
we leave a government than can govern and continue in a democratic fashion
now the billion dollar question is what is the best way to do all this?
Can we ever leave without is being considered a defeat? Is there an attainable goal that would be considered a victory? If we went there to find WMD's we have already lost, if we went there to make Iraq a safe and democratic country we have a lot of work to do still.
I am not in favor of the McCain 100 year plan, I am also not in favor of the lets start leaving right away plan.
Obama has put it as good as it can be stated(I think this is the quote I may have a word off ): We have to leave Iraq as carefully as we went in carelessly.
now can any of this occur with factions that just don't want to get along?
I still think the only reason we are in Iraq is because Saddam put a hit out on GHWB, and Jr. had to exact his revenge.
...i know all the rules but the rules do not know me, guaranteed...
Because that is what the Iraqi people want.
We are fighting for the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq. I checked it.
Turns out that is what has happened.
The result has been a recruiting boom for islamic radicals. While US military recruiting has become more difficult.
actually its just guys like you who hate america.
you paint with a wide brush. "most" people in the world hate us huh?