To All That Think Immediate Troop Withdrawal Would Be A Good Idea...

MasterFramer

binauralonthecape wrote:

last i checked we are developing new technologies, but until we can market it in a way thats feasable for companies to make a profit, then its not going to happen...in case we've forgotten, we live in a capitalistic society here in the usa...hybrid cars are the first step, you can say fuck oil, but its the most important natural resource on earth at the moment and it does alot more than help run your car, check back into reality, if guarantee if this situation was turned around, if a democrat was the president during the past two terms, all of the media would be very sympathetic about president gores rebuilding of iraq, and how great it is that he's trying his darndest to make it a sweet little democracy....

exactly why we need the government to step in on this and provide major funding... INSTEAD of flushing it down the oil well in Iraq...

oh BTW...

FUCK OIL

P.S. Dont play that Gore vs. Bush bullshit and the Liberal Media... take a look at who the fuck owns "major media". This war is fucked and anyone in power would be called on the way it was handled.

jlew24asu

MasterFramer wrote:

exactly why we need the government to step in on this and provide major funding... INSTEAD of flushing it down the oil well in Iraq...

oh BTW...

FUCK OIL

really intelligent. fuck oil. guess what we need oil. create an alternative, then you would sound like a genius saying fuck oil. until then, you are just another guy with a big mouth who uses oil everyday in order to survive.

MasterFramer

jlew24asu wrote:

really intelligent. fuck oil. guess what we need oil. create an alternative, then you would sound like a genius saying fuck oil. until then, you are just another guy with a big mouth who uses oil everyday in order to survive.

You have a point here?

FUCK OIL...

stupidcorporatewhore

binauralonthecape wrote:

i hear about democrats promising their supporters that the first thing they will do in office is get the troops out of iraq, how does this train of thought even make sense, and why do any of you agree with it??

well, in 1974 they said we shouldn't have left Vietnam. Millions would be slaughtered and communism would swallow the free world.

we left and millions (give or take) were slaughtered in Cambodia and elsewhere and 30 years later....

Vietnam is a prime vacation spot and poised to be a major economic power.

I say pull em out, they'll figure it out (with some diplomatic guidence).

come on guys, like we ever really gave a shit about the iraqis. If we did we wouldn't have fucked up their country in the first place.

jlew24asu

MasterFramer wrote:

You have a point here?

FUCK OIL...

yea my point is that you depend on oil.

MasterFramer

jlew24asu wrote:

yea my point is that you depend on oil.

did you come up with that one on your own? Or did you steal that one from Bush?

jlew24asu

MasterFramer wrote:

did you come up with that one on your own? Or did you steal that one from Bush?

I stole that from bush is that what you wanted to hear?

do you drive a car? do 250 million americans drive cars? do 100 million people in the northeast use oil to heat their homes? your right fuck oil we dont need it. yea go obama!

MasterFramer

jlew24asu wrote:

I stole that from bush is that what you wanted to hear?

do you drive a car? do 250 million americans drive cars? do 100 million people in the northeast use oil to heat their homes? your right fuck oil we dont need it. yea go obama!

When did I say we dont need it? And when did Obama say that? Odd I've never heard that.

You done yet?

roar

you make a mess, you clean it up.
i wish someone had a real plan to clean it up.

NCfan

I think we all need to remember there are options between imediate withdrawl and staying there forever. Seems the media and everybody else wants to frame Iraq as only these two options.

My two cents is this

- Continue to stay for maybe another year with as many troops as our military can support. Let our election pass.

- With so much of the country "pacified", change our strategy to focus on building up and training Iraqi security forces.

- If things continue to stay "relatively" calm during this time, then we tell Iraqi leadership behind closed doors that we are leaving

- Then implement a gradual withdrawl of troops, streched over maybe two years.

- By 2011 we should only have maybe 20 to 30 thousand troops in country in a support and training role for the Iraqi military.

I think it is pretty clear that the current rulings/working class in Iraq are more interested in ethnic/religious/tribal in-fighting than coming together. We're probably going to have to wait for the next generation for true reform to take hold. Until then, we don't need to have 180,000 troops in Iraq, but we do need to keep the place from falling apart.

We need to keep the door of democracy cracked in Iraq, and wait for the next generation to come along and kick it open when they are ready for it, and prepared to fight for it.

But to precipitously pull all our troops out in a "we're getting the fuck out of here" manor laced with "you're own your own/this place is helpless" overtones would be disaterous. The weak government would crumble and then we'd have an armed Iraqi military fracture and join various groups, as a massive civil war would break out. This civil war would probably last several years, and the country would decend into chaos. More Al Qaida, more suicide bombins, more civilians killed, more refugees. Basically any chance of a stable country there in the next 20 years would vanish.

Lets at least set the stage so they have a chance....

Byrnzie

mammasan wrote:

From day 1 this war was completely mismanaged. Every single word of advice that was offered from experts and professionals on how this war should be carried out and what short term objectives needed to be met in order to achieve long term goals has been ignored. As if this administrations ineptitude was not enough the Iraqi government has failed to meet the majority of it's goals and objectives and they seem little interested in making the sacrifices necessary to do so. Now why should US soldiers continue to loose lives and limbs for a people who seem extremely reluctant to put aside tribal/cultural/religious differences for what amounts to the better good of the country. This is a country whose government decided that while the entire country was slipping into chaos it would take a month long recess. Enough troops have died in a war based on lies and deception. I am a firm believer that since we created the mess over there that we should at the very least help clean it up, but when the very people of that country are not willing to aid us in the process then we need to acknowledge that we attempted to make up for our mistake but the task proved to big, pack up and go home.

So you believe that the war was justified, just mismanaged? And at what point did you offer to 'clean up the mess and go home'? You make it sound like the U.S made a big sacrifice for a bunch of ungrateful people who prefer chaos and death. Strange way of looking at it.

gimmesometruth27

NCfan wrote:

I think we all need to remember there are options between imediate withdrawl and staying there forever. Seems the media and everybody else wants to frame Iraq as only these two options.

My two cents is this

- Continue to stay for maybe another year with as many troops as our military can support. Let our election pass.

- With so much of the country "pacified", change our strategy to focus on building up and training Iraqi security forces.

- If things continue to stay "relatively" calm during this time, then we tell Iraqi leadership behind closed doors that we are leaving

- Then implement a gradual withdrawl of troops, streched over maybe two years.

- By 2011 we should only have maybe 20 to 30 thousand troops in country in a support and training role for the Iraqi military.

I think it is pretty clear that the current rulings/working class in Iraq are more interested in ethnic/religious/tribal in-fighting than coming together. We're probably going to have to wait for the next generation for true reform to take hold. Until then, we don't need to have 180,000 troops in Iraq, but we do need to keep the place from falling apart.

We need to keep the door of democracy cracked in Iraq, and wait for the next generation to come along and kick it open when they are ready for it, and prepared to fight for it.

But to precipitously pull all our troops out in a "we're getting the fuck out of here" manor laced with "you're own your own/this place is helpless" overtones would be disaterous. The weak government would crumble and then we'd have an armed Iraqi military fracture and join various groups, as a massive civil war would break out. This civil war would probably last several years, and the country would decend into chaos. More Al Qaida, more suicide bombins, more civilians killed, more refugees. Basically any chance of a stable country there in the next 20 years would vanish.

Lets at least set the stage so they have a chance....

as it stands now they do not have a chance. no country in history has ever been given "freedom" or democracy from another country. it has come about from civil war and the people rising up and taking it themselves. we fucked up big time in iraq. the collective american ego took on a task that was impossible and fucked from the beginning.

as i see it, we can either continue to pay trillions of dollars and keep a major military presence over there and get our soldiers killed in the middle of sectarian violence, or we can bring them home and let the iraqis duke it out themselves. we are not stopping the sectarian bombings that occur everyday, which as a secuirty force we are failing miserably. if we were succeeding there would be less bombings. we don't have enough of a military presence to react here should we be attacked by WMDS here at home, which was all over the press yesterday. its been 5 years since "mission accomplished" and we have nothing to show for it other than stacks of bodies, soldiers and contractors going crazy and killing civillians and other soldiers, and a recession back here because all of our money is sunken into that sand pit in iraq. i say bring them home. its been way too long and way too expensive.

Byrnzie

binauralonthecape wrote:

...honestly, i dont think muslims deserve respect, they are extremely dangerous as their continous suicide bombings show...

Honestly, I don't think American war mongers deserve respect. They are extremely dangerous as their continuous bombings, and invasions of foreign countries, coupled with their unconditional support of Israeli terror show...

gimmesometruth27

Byrnzie wrote:

Honestly, I don't think American war mongers deserve respect. They are extremely dangerous as their continuous bombings, and invasions of foreign countries, coupled with their unconditional support of Israeli terror show...

uh oh, Byrnzie went there lol....this is going to get interesting in a few minutes...

Byrnzie

binauralonthecape wrote:

and i guess most everyone here forgot that we, the united states, are in a war on terror...its a constant struggle to keep our country safe and not let another 9/11 happen, which our president has succeeded, like it or not, and if we dont continue to be on the offensive, then we will open ourselves up to another attack by being defensive...our military defends and dies for our freedom everyday, dont ever forget it.

It was predicted by top U.S advisors before the invasion of Iraq that the invasion would significantly increase terrorism in the world. Bush and his cronies decided to Invade anyway. This alone proves that these greed head Oil men couldn't give a fuck about yours, or anyone elses, saftey.

gimmesometruth27

Byrnzie wrote:

It was predicted by top U.S advisors before the invasion of Iraq that the invasion would significantly increase terrorism in the world. Bush and his cronies decided to Invade anyway. This alone proves that these greed head Oil men couldn't give a fuck about yours, or anyone elses, saftey.

that is difficult for most americans to swallow, we traditionally have had great trust in our leaders. personally i have learned my lesson and will never trust another politician again. btw, you are correct here.

binauralonthecape

Byrnzie wrote:

Honestly, I don't think American war mongers deserve respect. They are extremely dangerous as their continuous bombings, and invasions of foreign countries, coupled with their unconditional support of Israeli terror show...

oh yeah, you live in england, keep letting us do all the dirty work and you and your country keep talking while we keep doing

binauralonthecape

Byrnzie wrote:

Honestly, I don't think American war mongers deserve respect. They are extremely dangerous as their continuous bombings, and invasions of foreign countries, coupled with their unconditional support of Israeli terror show...

we're showing the world a very clear message: you fuck with us, and you'll get fucked, hard...i like being on our side....

macgyver06

binauralonthecape wrote:

we're showing the world a very clear message: you fuck with us, and you'll get fucked, hard...i like being on our side....

no offense...but when you are uninformed of the world..this type of thinking results.

macgyver06

binauralonthecape wrote:

oh yeah, you live in england, keep letting us do all the dirty work and you and your country keep talking while we keep doing

your fucking insane and stupid. dangerous combo man.... wtf does this even mean??? Dirty Work???