i was told i was not welcome

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Check out the movie this is England. It probably won't make you feel any better, but it's not a bad Sunday afternoon flick.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480025/

Deni

darkcrow wrote:

the other day some bitch said that i and people like me should be kicked out of the country (britain) as we were not really "british". i said that i was. i have lived here all my lfie. she said i was not "born and bred" to which i replied i was... i was born in london and have lived here all my life...

she then went on to say that immigrants steal all the jobs and take money away from the country..
of course i argued immigrants are actually net contributor to the uk giving back billions not only in taxes but also in consumer power.
she couldnt develop a proper coherant argument as to why i should not be allowed to live in my country...

oh she also tried to suggest that just because in my house my family dont just speak english but also our mother tounge (punjabi) that we were being offensive to britain on not respecting the country...

it just amazes me how much ignorance is around in this day and age, and how much hate.

People in America deal with this sort of thing on a daily basis. I'm just sorry its leaked across the "pond".

*edit* After having read the entirety of the thread I've come to the realization that my comment was premature and that "leaked" was the wrong word.

Still it saddens me.

urbanhippie

It sucks that you were treated like this...
But remember... for every one racist person out there, there are lots of normal, decent people...

Pegasus

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Check out the movie this is England. It probably won't make you feel any better, but it's not a bad Sunday afternoon flick.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480025/

It's a good flick.

onelongsong

Pegasus wrote:

I completely support the fact people immigrating to a country should do their best to learn the native language (and I can't stand people insisting in hanging out with their 'home' community, especially when it's people that had a choice in moving, not talking about refugees!..the Westerners are just as bad when they go overseas :rolleyes: )
I lived for 20 months in Oz and was doing door to door there.
shocking to me (a non-english native speaker) to see Italians or Greeks who'd been there 20-30 years and could not string a phrase in English!
But I felt in love with the Russians when I bumped into a 60-years-old woman that was going to school everyday to learn English ..most of the Russians there were making the effort, and it's a much harder transition than from Italian!

BUT, what language you speak at home, hell whatever you do in your own home, is your damn fucking business!
If (hopefully when) I get kids, I'll speak French to them, even if English will be the main home language, so they can have another language without even having to learn it (and can communicate easily with my family back home)..hell, if I've got the money for a nanny or someone to help, I'll try to find someone Spanish-speaking so they can learn that too!

i agree with you. when i was in politics; i had an occation to deal with arnold; californias governor. (i can't spell his last name.) he told me a story about how when he was a young boy; he dreamed of coming to america. i replied telling him that he did not dream of coming to america; he dreamed of becoming an american. the difference is: those who dream of coming to america; come to take. those who dream of becoming an american; come to give. i don't know what being a governor pays; but i know it's a lot less than the millions arnie would earn making movies.
my great grandfather dreamed of becoming an american. he learned english in poland so he could communicate when he arrived. my family didn't ask for hand outs. we lived dirt poor and worked our way up. although labeled DPs; we made our place here. we learned the american way and took pride in being americans. the american flag flies over all of our houses. we never marched to demand the government change the laws for us; while carrying the flag of another country. when i was young i marched for equal rights but i carried the american flag to say i love this country and america should be about equal rights.
i have great respect for those who immigrate LEGALLY and try to be a part of the american experience. i know how hard it is. but i dispise those who come here illegally and expect the country to change its laws and language just for them.
i live the american dream but only by hard work. i got a lucky break when i won the lottery which allowed me to buy my first house; but it took work to get here and i'm greatful to the country and it's laws which allowed me to become independant and self sufficient. i appreciate the hardships the early settlers endured. people back east think the wild west is long gone but where i live; it's still mostly like the 1880s. we don't have the services like police; fire; emt; or things you take for granted. when we get a bad snowstorm; we're stranded until it melts. you have a snowplow that cleans your roads. when our road gets bad; we have to use our own tractors to fix it. but we don't march on washington because we don't get the services we pay for with our taxes; we endure. i guess that's what bothers me about some of these people. if you're here legally; you deserve to be here. but i have no problem telling illegals to go home.

NoK

If the MINISTER for Immigration and Citizenship in Australia wants to stop "African" immigration for a year or so... what can u expect from other people..

onelongsong

Collin wrote:

You think the white people aren't being recognized? Isn't the reason why they have black heritage months or whatever because it has always been about white history, white heritage etc.?



There are simply more people who speak Spanish in the US. It's a fairly simple concept, do you seriously see it as discrimination? Do you even speak Polish?

English is the de facto national language of the US, not 'de jure'.

yes; i speak some polish. and arizona law says english is the official language of the state. i threatened a lawsuit and within a year it was on the ballot. when i was in school in the early 60's; it was not just about white history. the west was settled mostly due to the black buffalo soldiers. the railroad was built by the chinese immigrants in the west. but how do we honor those killed at the alamo when 2000 mexican soldiers slaughtered 200 american men? what day do we honor the colonists that gave their life during the american revolution so that you can enjoy the freedoms you now have?
if it's always been about white history and white heritage; when it that celebrated?

catefrances

NoK wrote:

If the MINISTER for Immigration and Citizenship in Australia wants to stop "African" immigration for a year or so... what can u expect from other people..

ah yes the lovely kevin andrews. but don't forget we live in a democracy, a country run by a representative government which by definition represents the will of the people. :rolleyes:




i know i know i made myself laugh too.

NoK

catefrances wrote:

ah yes the lovely kevin andrews. but don't forget we live in a democracy, a country run by a representative government which by definition represents the will of the people. :rolleyes:




i know i know i made myself laugh too.

i was shocked.. what happened to judging immigration applications based on merit? i guess skin colour is the new black!!! (pun intended!)

i dont wanna hijack this thread but whats the deal with Rudd getting slaughtered about telling McClelland it was insensitive to talk about the death penalty.. im in paris right now and i dont know the major reaction from the public but i feel people are buying it..

the guy says "we oppose the death penalty, but tells McClelland to express these beliefs at a less sensitive time" and he is being slaughtered by the media.. why is it hypocritical? :-|

what are ur thoughts on the election?

onelongsong

Restless Soul wrote:

That's ok, I know you weren't being racist . I guess everyone likes to be appreciated. I mean we don't have an asian/indian history month but I'm not going to start shouting for it.

We do have black history month which I think is a good thing because otherwise black children don't get to learn their history. After all the schools don't include it in their curriculums, unlike white history. In a way white history is seen as factual and correct (regardless of whether it is) and black history is seen as irrelevant or not important enough, or maybe too contradictory to the white version to be comfortable enough for white teachers to teach to white and non-white kids.

You could say that every month is white history month whereas blacks and hispanics only get a month each or so.

although i have ties to the crown; i dispise the way the british have conquered different lands/countries to make them her own. now that we are a civilized society; the crown should make amends. britian made india part of itself and should recognise the culture it took into its arms. i can understand british pride; but the british culture includes the indian culture and should be recognised on a daily basis. i recognise the indian culture for the contributions they have made to civilization and i greatly respect the hindu religion. i think you especially should be honored on a daily basis.
hare krishna

catefrances

NoK wrote:

i was shocked.. what happened to judging immigration applications based on merit? i guess skin colour is the new black!!! (pun intended!)

i dont wanna hijack this thread but whats the deal with Rudd getting slaughtered about telling McClelland it was insensitive to talk about the death penalty.. im in paris right now and i dont know the major reaction from the public but i feel people are buying it..

the guy says "we oppose the death penalty, but tells McClelland to express these beliefs at a less sensitive time" and he is being slaughtered by the media.. why is it hypocritical? :-|

what are ur thoughts on the election?

well see now kevin is just playing politics, which may be a weird thing to say seeings how he is our next prime minister. i guess kev's worried about the indonesians throwing their bullshit around.

i'm trying not to think about the election. there is nothing either rudd or howard could possibly say that would win my vote. tis all horsehit if you ask me. like watching two kids in a playground with their little gangs of shitkickers.

Heineken Helen

onelongsong wrote:

the difference is: those who dream of coming to america; come to take. those who dream of becoming an american; come to give.

Huh? Isn't it the same thing? Or rather I would say is those who dream of going to America do so for many reasons other than to take. They do so to experience living elsewhere and America offers such vast differences. Those who dream of becoming an American are more likely to want to do so because they imagine the average American as being rich and having lots. So would it not be more likely to suggest that those who dream of becoming an American are those who want to take? And take infinitely.

Heineken Helen

onelongsong wrote:

yes; i speak some polish. and arizona law says english is the official language of the state. i threatened a lawsuit and within a year it was on the ballot. when i was in school in the early 60's; it was not just about white history. the west was settled mostly due to the black buffalo soldiers. the railroad was built by the chinese immigrants in the west. but how do we honor those killed at the alamo when 2000 mexican soldiers slaughtered 200 american men? what day do we honor the colonists that gave their life during the american revolution so that you can enjoy the freedoms you now have?
if it's always been about white history and white heritage; when it that celebrated?

I love that you use the word colonists... and yet you still think there should be caps on immigration... since when do the sons and daughters of colonists have the right to say who can and cannot do what their ancestors did? Why do the current 'colonists' have different intentions to the ones in the past? What makes you think they do? They're all just looking for a new world aren't they?

Heineken Helen

onelongsong wrote:

although i have ties to the crown; i dispise the way the british have conquered different lands/countries to make them her own. now that we are a civilized society; the crown should make amends. britian made india part of itself and should recognise the culture it took into its arms. i can understand british pride; but the british culture includes the indian culture and should be recognised on a daily basis. i recognise the indian culture for the contributions they have made to civilization and i greatly respect the hindu religion. i think you especially should be honored on a daily basis.
hare krishna

Thankfully India never really lost its culture, did it? It's at least one thing that STILL belongs to the Indians and not to the British.

And show me evidence to suggest that we're more civilised now than back then?

Pegasus

onelongsong wrote:

yes; i speak some polish. and arizona law says english is the official language of the state. i threatened a lawsuit and within a year it was on the ballot. when i was in school in the early 60's; it was not just about white history. the west was settled mostly due to the black buffalo soldiers. the railroad was built by the chinese immigrants in the west. but how do we honor those killed at the alamo when 2000 mexican soldiers slaughtered 200 american men? what day do we honor the colonists that gave their life during the american revolution so that you can enjoy the freedoms you now have?
if it's always been about white history and white heritage; when it that celebrated?

4th of July? :rolleyes:

Heineken Helen wrote:

I love that you use the word colonists... and yet you still think there should be caps on immigration... since when do the sons and daughters of colonists have the right to say who can and cannot do what their ancestors did? Why do the current 'colonists' have different intentions to the ones in the past? What makes you think they do? They're all just looking for a new world aren't they?

once again, you take words out of my mouth


that's what I like about Britain rather than America:
you're allowed (there's always the odd idiot of course, but society in general) to be BOTH British and whatever your family/yourself are from.
you're not expected to fit in the mould and forget everything about your origins.
I believe it makes the country, and the people in it, richer, even if it can creates some problems too, but it mostly happen when don't try to be British at all.

Britain has a long history, hell, it's WHOLE history, of integrating immigrants cultures into it's own. Fish and Chips is a mix of Jewish and French, Tikka Massala is now the national dish. it's only in last couple of years a non-white journalist has presented a prime-time newscast in France; in England, Trevor MacDonald has been doing it for decades!
it's trivial things, but they reflect a more accepting attitude in my opinion.

NoK

catefrances wrote:

well see now kevin is just playing politics, which may be a weird thing to say seeings how he is our next prime minister. i guess kev's worried about the indonesians throwing their bullshit around.

i'm trying not to think about the election. there is nothing either rudd or howard could possibly say that would win my vote. tis all horsehit if you ask me. like watching two kids in a playground with their little gangs of shitkickers.

yah but "choosing the lesser of two evils" is always the case in politics.. considering most independent campaigners that dont have party politics shoved down their throat would have a good election campaign if they got 5% of the votes

ah well good thing ill be in paris at the time!

Collin

onelongsong wrote:

yes; i speak some polish. and arizona law says english is the official language of the state. i threatened a lawsuit and within a year it was on the ballot. when i was in school in the early 60's; it was not just about white history. the west was settled mostly due to the black buffalo soldiers. the railroad was built by the chinese immigrants in the west. but how do we honor those killed at the alamo when 2000 mexican soldiers slaughtered 200 american men? what day do we honor the colonists that gave their life during the american revolution so that you can enjoy the freedoms you now have?
if it's always been about white history and white heritage; when it that celebrated?

I'm not an American. And if important white people are not being honoured then I think you are right, they should be honoured.

But I don't get why you get so upset about Spanish being an option and Polish not. But if Arizona has English as the official language then I think foreigners should at least undertake some effort to learn the language. But on the other hand, you want your native tongue as an option that means that somewhere you are still connected to Poland, which is logical, so why is it so odd that these people are still connected to their home countries and want to speak Spanish? I mean, you obviously want to speak Polish?

I guess my point is, I think people should adjust to the country to come to live in, but that's a long process... and it takes time... and there are more Spanish speaking people than Polish speaking people, so that just seems more logical than discrimination.

Restless Soul

Collin wrote:

I guess my point is, I think people should adjust to the country to come to live in, but that's a long process... and it takes time... and there are more Spanish speaking people than Polish speaking people, so that just seems more logical than discrimination.

I think that's a good point. Sometimes people don't realise that it can take years for new people to integrate into a country, generations even. Regardless of why you're immigrating, it's very hard for people to forget everything about their past lives even if they are able embrace the new. I agree with the need to know the host language, but other things can be difficult to shift such as cultural attitudes and behaviour, choice of food, religion, traditions etc. Obviously that happened when the asians came to britain but now I'm seeing it with the polish. We have polish food shops in our street now replacing the long-term turkish because they obviously miss their food from back home.

I think maybe earlier established immigrants who have already settled down and have brought up families and maybe have grandkids now forget how hard it was for them to come to a new country and try to adapt. Things are supposed to get easier as you get older and the memory goes I suppose!

Anyway I'm second gen and I remember it was difficult for my parents to adjust to things here and that made them more Indian in a way, in order to stop us from losing our culture. They were stricter with us than they would have been at home I think. But when I have kids (or if probably) I expect it would be a lot easier for them because they'll have me as a buffer. I probably won't be steeping them in the "old ways" as my parents did to me, so they will feel more part of the country than I do.

Heineken Helen

onelongsong, how do you feel about your own people over here, in Ireland, being pretty much the bottom of the pile right now? Do you think I should have the same attitude towards the Poles as you have towards immigrants in your own country?

However smug and high up we think we are, there are always certain countries where we're the lowest form of life or were in the past. So perhaps we should all consider that when we're being so judgmental about others wanting to join the same country that your parents/grandparents/whatever wanted to join so much.

Jeanie

I wish......... oh what's it matter what I wish?