Why aren't Christians pacifists?

StupidHumanBeings

catefrances wrote:

then in fact they do support the war. it matters not how they came to that conviction. if you can not think for yourself then you're basically screwed anyway.

Unfortunately you are putting the carrige before the horses in your logic. You can't use secular thought to understand this problem because it's not secular thought that is developing it.

Just because we may disagree and even be repulsed by someone's reasoning we must still understand it in their terms in order to have any hope in fixing the problem.

They are thinking for themselves it's just that the cornerstone of their reasoning is based on Christian teachings to which everything else is secondary. The conviction is the most important element to which all other actions (and support of the war) stem from.

If you beleived that the Rapture was something acheivable by humans, and that it would end this mad world for a better one, would you not want to evoke it? It's the ultimate exit strategy. Where is the failure in logic there on their terms?

Eliot Rosewater

slightofjeff wrote:

And, to paraphrase what you said to me earlier, that's only YOUR interpretation.

That's not the interpretation pushed by pretty much any mainstream sect of Christianity. And again, that's all I'm saying. This is how Christians rationalize war. That much isn't up for argument. It is a fact. This is how they do it.

Again, you might think you know what Jesus would do, and you might be right, who knows? But that's not what the mainstream of Christians believe. Your opinion doesn't change the fact that this stuff is what is being taught in Christian churches right now, and has been for centuries.

Are you fucking kidding me? We're talking about a story where we both know the ending. Christ was killed. He didn't kill. He let himself be killed. I claim to know what Jesus would do because I lived my life for 25 years in Christianity. I believed it, I studied it. But it doesn't even take that. The story is that he didn't kill. He let people kill him. Even when he supposedly had all the power on Heaven and Earth to stop them. His message was a message of peace. PEACE. PEACE. Not war. PEACE. It's not just my version.

Gary Carter

StupidHumanBeings wrote:

Unfortunately you are putting the carrige before the horses in your logic. You can't use secular thought to understand this problem because it's not secular thought that is developing it.

Just because we may disagree and even be repulsed by someone's reasoning we must still understand it in their terms in order to have any hope in fixing the problem.

They are thinking for themselves it's just that the cornerstone of their reasoning is based on Christian teachings to which everything else is secondary. The conviction is the most important element to which all other actions (and support of the war) stem from.

If you beleived that the Rapture was something acheivable by humans, and that it would end this mad world for a better one, would you not want to evoke it? It's the ultimate exit strategy. Where is the failure in logic there on their terms?

thank you for making my point

RolandTD20Kdrummer

slightofjeff wrote:

Religion aside, violence has solved a shitload of problems in the history of the world. Just ask the Jews who didn't get exterminated after WWII.

It's an illusion, and a band-aid solution it only sows the seeds of hatred deeper.

Population #'s and forced interaction is the underlying problem and the biggest challenge over the next 20 years.

Bush and Hitler, all personalities aside, are going through the same motions to obtain control. There's no difference. Demonize...destroy...control...repeat.

El_Kabong

ArmsinaV wrote:

Honest question here for Christians, mainly.

Turn the other cheek when someone hits you. Why is it applicable in personal life and not social/political life?

As a Christian, I'm starting to wonder myself if that's not the best way to approach the world....

or why aren't they more environmentaly conscious? the bible said the world is his gift...look at how his great gift is treated! ppl like ann coulter and others will argue the dominion over it all...that doesn't change the fact: imagine if you gave your child a really big gift...something unique, one of a kind and they treat it like shit, like it doesn't matter...?

i'm sure god didn't want us to have to BUY water to drink b/c the water sources are all dirty and polluted (not to mention the soil, air, food sources....)

catefrances

metsfan531941 wrote:

yes i did cate, i sensed these oil men taking over the catholic religion and taking over the usa by brainwashing us and it worked on 50 million people who didnt come to there own conclusions cause they were brainwashed in believeing that iraq had something to do with 9-11 and that this war is to protect our "freedoms"

well then anyone who actually believes that iraq had any part in 9/11 is just stupid. but as you and i both know people would sooner believe EVERYTHING their government tells them than actually scratch the surface and reveal the truth. to question their government is perhaps to question themselves and who wants to do that when the answers may not be to their liking? i just can't agree with you on the brainwashing. i think it's just ignorance.

Eliot Rosewater

StupidHumanBeings wrote:

They are thinking for themselves it's just that the cornerstone of their reasoning is based on Christian teachings to which everything else is secondary.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the point was that their reasoning in fact is NOT based on "Christian teachings" as to say the teachings of Christ. But rather the teachings of fucked up people who consider themselves to be Christians.

Eliot Rosewater

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

It's an illusion, and a band-aid solution it only sows the seeds of hatred deeper.

Population #'s and forced interaction is the underlying problem and the biggest challenge over the next 20 years.

Bush and Hitler, all personalities aside, are going through the same motions to obtain control. There's no difference. Demonize...destroy...control...repeat.

I couldn't agree more. It's obvious to anyone who's paying attention that U.S. and A. is well on it's way to becoming Nazi Germany. It's horrifying.

Gary Carter

catefrances wrote:

well then anyone who actually believes that iraq had any part in 9/11 is just stupid. but as you and i both know people would sooner believe EVERYTHING their government tells them than actually scratch the surface and reveal the truth.

for the love the god(no pun intended) thats the very essence of brainwashing.

Eliot Rosewater

catefrances wrote:

well then anyone who actually believes that iraq had any part in 9/11 is just stupid. but as you and i both know people would sooner believe EVERYTHING their government tells them than actually scratch the surface and reveal the truth. to question their government is perhaps to question themselves and who wants to do that when the answers may not be to their liking? i just can't agree with you on the brainwashing. i think it's just ignorance.

I think it's a bit of both. I guess stemming from laziness. We're so damn lazy that we often refuse to educate ourselves, which leads to ignorance. But we have to listen to someone, and those who have the mics know what's going on and they take advantage of it by brainwashing.

Gary Carter

don't gimme no wrote:

I think it's a bit of both. I guess stemming from laziness. We're so damn lazy that we often refuse to educate ourselves, which leads to ignorance. But we have to listen to someone, and those who have the mics know what's going on and they take advantage of it by brainwashing.

thank you for further proving my point

catefrances

metsfan531941 wrote:

thank you for further proving my point

he didn't prove your point. he's half agreeing with you.

and you know we could go round and round the mulberry bush on this brian. unfortunately i tend to measure everyone by myself. i figure if i know it then why don't they. i know that sounds arrogant and perhaps even naive but i cant see how people are just happy to be spoonfed. then again perhaps it's just my contrary nature.

Eliot Rosewater

metsfan531941 wrote:

thank you for further proving my point

Anytime.




Go Dodgers.



Just kidding.

gue_barium

metsfan531941 wrote:

thank you for further proving my point

What do you mean? You have to tell you what you mean. I don't understand. I need an explanation. Does this have something to do with religion?

Gary Carter

catefrances wrote:

he didn't prove your point. he's half agreeing with you.

and you know we could go round and round the mulberry bush on this brian. unfortunately i tend to measure everyone by myself. i figure if i know it then why don't they. i know that sounds arrogant and perhaps even naive but i cant see how people are just happy to be spoonfed. then again perhaps it's just my contrary nature.

cause sometimes they dont know it cause there brainwashed. people are happy being brainwashed here thats whats people outside of america dont get. i live with these peoples and see what goes on first hand. and yes your being just a tad bit naive cate.ahhh gue i love your wise ass comment, they never get old. dont gimmie no, theres always tommrow

catefrances

metsfan531941 wrote:

cause sometimes they dont know it cause there brainwashed. people are happy being brainwashed here thats whats people outside of america dont get. i live with these peoples and see what goes on first hand. and yes your being just a tad bit naive cate.

people just shit me that's all it is and i have zero patience for fools.

StupidHumanBeings

don't gimme no wrote:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the point was that their reasoning in fact is NOT based on "Christian teachings" as to say the teachings of Christ. But rather the teachings of fucked up people who consider themselves to be Christians.

It's really challenging to undertand this problem. You are right though it's not in line with the teachings of Christ. This however all depends on your denomination if it's Catholic, Methodist, Episcopal, Lutheran it may be hard to grasp the Evangelical industry and mindset.

People need something to believe in and sometimes the shiniest object wins. Beleif like anything else is a commodity. If we were to pick our beleif system like we buy anything else (and we do), we would buy the biggest, loudest, fastest, and overall best packaged and presented one.

People have to constantly be sold on their religion. That's why if you ever look at the Evangelical movement in this country it's almost embarrasing at the outright consumerisim of the whole thing. It's the faith industry.

Gary Carter

catefrances wrote:

people just shit me that's all it is and i have zero patience for fools.

they shit me to, but hey i just try and live my life the best i can and not worry bout other people thoughts on the war and religion and everything else, cause if i did, id probably kill them.i have zero patience for alot of things

StupidHumanBeings wrote:

People have to constantly be sold on their religion. That's why if you ever look at the Evangelical movement in this country it's almost embarrasing at the outright consumerisim of the whole thing. It's the faith industry.

u mean like the jesus actions figure toys and religion tv

RolandTD20Kdrummer

don't gimme no wrote:

I couldn't agree more. It's obvious to anyone who's paying attention that U.S. and A. is well on it's way to becoming Nazi Germany. It's horrifying.

The people of Germany let Hitler happen. Hitler didn't just wake up one day and say ok ok start killing all these people. It was a slow steady progression of demonizing and racial prejudice combined with complacency.

It's a genie in the bottle effect and a lot of people are too damn busy, stupid, ignorant etc.. to realize. God forbid you were mistaken for a Jew (terrorist) in Hitler's (Bush's) time.

All in the name of terrorism. Yeah right. That's the brainwash right there.

Demonize...kill...kill... no mater what it takes to "defeat" the invisible undefeatable enemy :rolleyes:

I hope people will stop hitting the snooze button long enough before we all create a monster that has no discretion on what a "terrorist" really is.

So when is civil disobedience going to be terrorism? We're far too close already.

Millions have fought and died against the powers that be to have what we have today, and we are letting it all just slip away...all because were too fucking stupid to realize.

Eliot Rosewater

metsfan531941 wrote:

they shit me to, but hey i just try and live my life the best i can and not worry bout other people thoughts on the war and religion and everything else, cause if i did, id probably kill them.

Come on man, WWJD?