I feel the same way about all those daytime talk shows like Oprah and Maury. Then there is those magazines like Cosmopolitan.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I always thought it was weird how in the animal kingdom, the female is more often the bigger and stronger one, dominating the relationship but in cases such as human beings...males turned into the bigger, stronger one. (Although there are some scary monster chicks out there)
the praying mantice
-Breeding season is during the late summer season in temperate climates. (5) The female secretes a pheromone to attract and show that she is receptive to the mate. The male then approaches her with caution. The most common courtship is when the male mantis approaches the female frontally, slowing its speed down as it nears. This has also been described as a beautiful ritual dance in which the female's final pose motions that she is ready. The second most common courtship is when the male approaches the female from behind, speeding up as it nears. He then jumps on her back, they mate, and he flies away quickly. It is most seldom that courtship occurs with the male remaining passive until approached by the female.
The actual mating response process has been described as an initial visual fixation on the female, followed by fluctuation of the antennae and a slow and deliberate approach. Abdominal flex displays with a flying leap on the back of the female are executed in order to mount her. The female lashes her antennae and there is rhythmic S-bending of the abdomen.
after they mate, about 5-31% of the time the female with eat him.
Cosmo is repulsive. It mostly exists to reinforce gender stereotypes and roles.
Those mags don't have any good advice anyway. "100 ways to please your man". Dave Chapelle has good advice.
"Play with his balls, fix him a sandwhich and don't talk so much."
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Haha, I'm just saying. It's not like it's a woman's responsibility to "please" their man. It's a mutual thing. He's gotta bite the bullet too.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
i am sure that you're aware that sex and the city was dreamed up by a MAN. it is the perception of a MAN to show that women want to be just as free with their sexuality as men are. this show is a gross misinterpretation. the show was devised by men for men. some sort of warped attempt at sexual equality.
Actually there's a whole team of writers, including women, who write their personal experiences into the show.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
There are a few things one can do with the bullet, and I wouldn't suggest biting it.
Well, you know what I mean. All I wanted my ex to do is give me head while I played counter-strike. I'd have done anything she wanted.
Correction: I did everything she wanted.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Well soulsinging, I think we're in luck. I'd bet that most women who speak against objectification don't actually dress in that way. Although it really depends on what exactly determines 'playing up to that objectification'. People can have many different ideas about that.
true. my point was solely that there's work to be done on both ends. i also think women do a poor job of communicating their message to men. it's the same as the left trying to reach middle america. middle america is by and large pretty dumb and traditional and dont like to have the boat rocked and the feminist message often comes off kinda incomprehensible at best to men and loony and dangerous at worst. joe guy can point to a girl in a mini-skirt like that and say "see, they LOVE being treated like sex objects." im working on trying to whip those guys into shape on my side of the gender line, so ill leave it up to you to keep those girls in check on your side
excellent article, thank you for posting.
i just sent it off in an e-mail to a few friends/family who i think it would genuinely interest. it does make excellent points and absolutely, so much still remains to be done as of yet in regards to true gender equality, concern, etc. just as much still needs to be done for race relations, religious tolerance, and on and on. however, just because so much has been accomplished, and just because so much does still needs to be done...doesn't mean we shouldn't be shocked, or that we should stop discussing, etc. it IS needed for further progress on all fronts. what was it....."you've come a long way, baby".....? :rolleyes: apparently, not nearly long enough just yet.
oh please ahnimus, don't play the wounded soul. not all men are the same. and you know it. and that's not what i meant.
but now thta i think about it perhaps darren starr's intention was to show woman that this is what they 'really want'. women secretly want to be like men. to be able to have sex with anyone they want and to sit around and discuss it.
and what happens in the final episode? it reverts back to female stereotypes.
then why did victorygin claim it was a pro-women tv show that demonstrated strong female friendships? which is it?
i think this is the key problem in the feminist movement... just like any woman, they dont know what the fuck they want but seriously, im truly confused. it's like they want it both ways. women shouldnt ever be shown in skimpy outfits becos it objectifies them, but they should wear them as much as they want cos it celebrates their sexuality. it's fine for a woman to look sexy as long as men dont notice how sexy they look? that doesnt make sense.
likewise, half of women see 'sex and the city' as an inspiring show about women being free with their sexuality and taking control of their own lives. the other half see it as perpetuating the "every girl is slutty deep down" male fantasy while still reinforcing that, in the end, women only need/want a decent man to be happy.
it's no wonder guys don't know how to behave and what is and is not acceptable... women don't know this yet either, not even for themselves.
then why did victorygin claim it was a pro-women tv show that demonstrated strong female friendships? which is it?
i think this is the key problem in the feminist movement... just like any woman, they dont know what the fuck they want but seriously, im truly confused. it's like they want it both ways. women shouldnt ever be shown in skimpy outfits becos it objectifies them, but they should wear them as much as they want cos it celebrates their sexuality. it's fine for a woman to look sexy as long as men dont notice how sexy they look? that doesnt make sense.
likewise, half of women see 'sex and the city' as an inspiring show about women being free with their sexuality and taking control of their own lives. the other half see it as perpetuating the "every girl is slutty deep down" male fantasy while still reinforcing that, in the end, women only need/want a decent man to be happy.
it's no wonder guys don't know how to behave and what is and is not acceptable... women don't know this yet either, not even for themselves.
ok, i'll bite. first and foremost, whenever a woman comments about female related issues, it si not some 'feminist statement' or part of some front...it is simply a woman sharing her perspective.
and yea, that 'humor'...is exactly all part and parcel of all 'that' stuff, and i'll leave that be.
anyway, different people have different opni9ons, even women! so not all will agree. however, i think you are missing one part of the equation. i do not think anyone is suggesting that men cannot visually a ppreciate a woman, that if/when a woman wears something revealing he should not look, etc. also, if a woman wants to dress that way, it's her perogative. i hope no one is judging that. i think there i snothing wrong with it, anyone should feel free to dress however they choose.
i think the REAL issue is that sure go and look..but don't use the fact that a woman may be scanitly clad, wearing a revealing outfit, as an invitation to TOUCH, to make agressive physical advances....b/c a woman dressed as such is 'asking for it'...etc.
and sure, i don't think male or female there will EVER be one unified opinion on ANY of these things, the judgements/labels, etc...but discussing them, working on breaking down the stereotypes, etc...is a start. so sure, how one dresses is a reflection of them, what they want to share, etc...but it in no way should be misconstrued as anything beyond an invitation to look....and sure, looking/appreciating is one thing...but being verbally abusive about it, lewd comments, or crossing the line and touching without permission...something else entirely. i would think, male or female...we could hopefully at some point agree on that.
b/c the whole idea that a woman is 'asking for it'...simply by how she dresses still sadly exists, and it shouldn't.
anyway, i realize as usual..i went on a tangent. in regards to sex and the city.....it does tie in, b/c people WILL and DO have differing opinions on it. i tend to see it in a positive light, others may not...but again, it's not all some 'united' front, not any more than anything male-centered/related would have a united front. men and women alike will and do have different opinions on any given topic. it is not meant to confuse, it's simply human nature....not just females.
By BOB HERBERT
Published: October 16, 2006
The New York Times
“Who needs a brain when you have these?” -- message on an Abercrombie & Fitch T-shirt for young women
In the recent shootings at an Amish schoolhouse in rural Pennsylvania and a large public high school in Colorado, the killers went out of their way to separate the girls from the boys, and then deliberately attacked only the girls.
Ten girls were shot and five killed at the Amish school. One girl was killed and a number of others were molested in the Colorado attack.
In the widespread coverage that followed these crimes, very little was made of the fact that only girls were targeted. Imagine if a gunman had gone into a school, separated the kids up on the basis of race or religion, and then shot only the black kids. Or only the white kids. Or only the Jews.
There would have been thunderous outrage. The country would have first recoiled in horror, and then mobilized in an effort to eradicate that kind of murderous bigotry. There would have been calls for action and reflection. And the attack would have been seen for what it really was: a hate crime.
None of that occurred because these were just girls, and we have become so accustomed to living in a society saturated with misogyny that violence against females is more or less to be expected. Stories about the rape, murder and mutilation of women and girls are staples of the news, as familiar to us as weather forecasts. The startling aspect of the Pennsylvania attack was that this terrible thing happened at a school in Amish country, not that it happened to girls.
The disrespectful, degrading, contemptuous treatment of women is so pervasive and so mainstream that it has just about lost its ability to shock. Guys at sporting events and other public venues have shown no qualms about raising an insistent chant to nearby women to show their breasts. An ad for a major long-distance telephone carrier shows three apparently naked women holding a billing statement from a competitor. The text asks, “When was the last time you got screwed?”
An ad for Clinique moisturizing lotion shows a woman’s face with the lotion spattered across it to simulate the climactic shot of a porn video.
We have a problem. Staggering amounts of violence are unleashed on women every day, and there is no escaping the fact that in the most sensational stories, large segments of the population are titillated by that violence. We’ve been watching the sexualized image of the murdered 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey for 10 years. JonBenet is dead. Her mother is dead. And we’re still watching the video of this poor child prancing in lipstick and high heels.
What have we learned since then? That there’s big money to be made from thongs, spandex tops and sexy makeovers for little girls. In a misogynistic culture, it’s never too early to drill into the minds of girls that what really matters is their appearance and their ability to please men sexually.
A girl or woman is sexually assaulted every couple of minutes or so in the U.S. The number of seriously battered wives and girlfriends is far beyond the ability of any agency to count. We’re all implicated in this carnage because the relentless violence against women and girls is linked at its core to the wider society’s casual willingness to dehumanize women and girls, to see them first and foremost as sexual vessels — objects — and never, ever as the equals of men.
“Once you dehumanize somebody, everything is possible,” said Taina Bien-Aimé, executive director of the women’s advocacy group Equality Now.
That was never clearer than in some of the extreme forms of pornography that have spread like nuclear waste across mainstream America. Forget the embarrassed, inhibited raincoat crowd of the old days. Now Mr. Solid Citizen can come home, log on to this $7 billion mega-industry and get his kicks watching real women being beaten and sexually assaulted on Web sites with names like “Ravished Bride” and “Rough Sex — Where Whores Get Owned.”
Then, of course, there’s gangsta rap, and the video games where the players themselves get to maul and molest women, the rise of pimp culture (the Academy Award-winning song this year was “It’s Hard Out Here for a Pimp”), and on and on.
You’re deluded if you think this is all about fun and games. It’s all part of a devastating continuum of misogyny that at its farthest extreme touches down in places like the one-room Amish schoolhouse in normally quiet Nickel Mines, Pa.
Wow.
Im sending this arcticle to all my nieces, thank you hippiemom.
Okay, I understand that the objectification of women has gotten pretty bad. What I don't understand is what any of what the article spoke of has to do with the amish school girls. They were'nt running around in thongs and makeup with shirts that had less than classy sayings on them.
Okay, I understand that the objectification of women has gotten pretty bad. What I don't understand is what any of what the article spoke of has to do with the amish school girls. They were'nt running around in thongs and makeup with shirts that had less than classy sayings on them.
nothing.
merely pointing out the fact, WHY isn't the FACT that apparently females WERE targeted is NOT being discussed? and all the rest, just support of the idea that women are still objectified, are not yet fully on equal footing, that much is still dismissed, deemed ok, etc...that should not be. of course, this is what i get from it, in a nutshell.....but yea, just a spark for thinking/discussion of it ALL....not just the shooting, but of girls/women in society, etc.
Okay, I understand that the objectification of women has gotten pretty bad. What I don't understand is what any of what the article spoke of has to do with the amish school girls. They were'nt running around in thongs and makeup with shirts that had less than classy sayings on them.
Its a subtle mindset that permeates society, and then mushrooms into the kind of hatred and objectification of women (girls) that you saw in Pennsylvania.
Unpeel the layers a bit more dude, not everything is at face value in this world.
Its a subtle mindset that permeates society, and then mushrooms into the kind of hatred and objectification of women (girls) that you saw in Pennsylvania.
Unpeel the layers a bit more dude, not everything is at face value in this world.
I could understand that if he attacked girls that were discussed in that article. Does objectification really lead to a hate that leads to murder? I can see it leading to little respect and having a skewed view that women are nothing more than meat but murderous hate? I think that they has to be something else involved for it to evolve into that.
Well, all I'm saying is I don't think there is a lesser sex and I don't know anyone who does. If you are in a situation where you might have encountered sexism directed at you, then I can see why you have that idea. However for the vast majority there is no 'lesser' sex. Which means it's situational.
Cultural would imply that it happens across the board, and it doesn't.
no. cultural implies that it is ingrained into our society. and how the practices of that society and how the way men and women are portrayed manifests itself within that society.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Its a subtle mindset that permeates society, and then mushrooms into the kind of hatred and objectification of women (girls) that you saw in Pennsylvania.
Unpeel the layers a bit more dude, not everything is at face value in this world.
Oh please!
Haven't you ever seen a porno?
Those people like to fuck, both of them.
The objectification goes beyond women, everyone is objectified. Open up a magazine and scope out the male models. Women dress scantily because they want men to look at them, but only the men they want to look at. It's the classic scene of the construction workers with ripped abs chillin out by the heavy machinery tearing their shirts off and pouring water all over their bodies. Everyone wants to be beautiful and sexy but they don't want to be objectified and they objectify others that are beutiful. Women ridicule female models as flakes and hoes because they are jealous of the lifestyle. Men do the same shit, male models are all morons. The difference between men and women as far as objectification is concerned is nill. As an example, my ex-girlfriend watched Wicker Park a billion times because she thinks Ashton Kutcher is sexy. I'm not saying all women are like, not all men are objectifiers either. All together, men and women are equal. The only differences are anatomical, if you don't agree with that then I guess you are an extreme feminist with a totally bias and sexist opinion.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
no. cultural implies that it is ingrained into our society. and how the practices of that society and how the way men and women are portrayed manifests itself within that society.
I know what cultural means.
You are narrow-sighted, you are only looking at one part of the equation because of your particular situation. The only thing ingrained into us is the animalist instinct for survival. It's nature to want to be beautiful, it's nature to be attracted to the best genetics. It's nature for all others to be jealous and act out against the best genetics. It's a two-way street, men and women both suffer from objectification and discrimination.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
The only differences are anatomical, if you don't agree with that then I guess you are an extreme feminist with a totally bias and sexist opinion.
wow, i am not even weighing in on all your post...just the idea that if one disagrees with YOUR opinion here, they must be biased, sexist, an extreme feminist? no room for leeway on that one eh?
you make some valid points, but i do not 100% agree with them. yes, both men and women objectify, both get judged, etc...but to the exact same degree? i personally disagree.
anyway, i think discussing it, for either/both genders..is a good thing. b/c the more an issue gets discussed, the more aware we all become, and hopefully the more we, and as a result - society, begin to alter our collective behavior to some extent.
You are narrow-sighted, you are only looking at one part of the equation because of your particular situation. The only thing ingrained into us is the animalist instinct for survival. It's nature to want to be beautiful, it's nature to be attracted to the best genetics. It's nature for all others to be jealous and act out against the best genetics. It's a two-way street, men and women both suffer from objectification and discrimination.
i love how your determination of best genetics is visual based. it is NOT nature to want to be beautiful.
but yes i agree with you that both men and women are objectified.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
wow, i am not even weighing in on all your post...just the idea that if one disagrees with YOUR opinion here, they must be biased, sexist, an extreme feminist? no room for leeway on that one eh?
you make some valid points, but i do not 100% agree with them. yes, both men and women objectify, both get judged, etc...but to the exact same degree? i personally disagree.
anyway, i think discussing it, for either/both genders..is a good thing. b/c the more an issue gets discussed, the more aware we all become, and hopefully the more we, and as a result - society, begin to alter our collective behavior to some extent.
Are you saying that men and women are different otherwise? Perhaps women mature faster, maybe they make better parents, maybe they are more sensitive and spiritual naturally, maybe they are better drivers.
Maybe men are more intelligent and better in authoritive positions. Maybe men are more physically adept.
Maybe that's all bullshit from centuries past twisted and recalibrated into a feminists wet dream.
My point is we are equal, it doesn't matter to what degree men or women are objectified. It doesn't even really matter that they are objectified, it feeds our animalistic instincts and if the masses didn't like it, they wouldn't be doing it. It's not going to make or break our kids perceptions. Would it be better if we all dressed up like muslim women?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
Clearly there is no shortage of an audience.
cross the river to the eastside
I feel the same way about all those daytime talk shows like Oprah and Maury. Then there is those magazines like Cosmopolitan.
Oh god. Dr. Phil makes me wish I was born deaf.
Well maybe there is one thing we agree on.
Cosmo is repulsive. It mostly exists to reinforce gender stereotypes and roles.
cross the river to the eastside
the praying mantice
-Breeding season is during the late summer season in temperate climates. (5) The female secretes a pheromone to attract and show that she is receptive to the mate. The male then approaches her with caution. The most common courtship is when the male mantis approaches the female frontally, slowing its speed down as it nears. This has also been described as a beautiful ritual dance in which the female's final pose motions that she is ready. The second most common courtship is when the male approaches the female from behind, speeding up as it nears. He then jumps on her back, they mate, and he flies away quickly. It is most seldom that courtship occurs with the male remaining passive until approached by the female.
The actual mating response process has been described as an initial visual fixation on the female, followed by fluctuation of the antennae and a slow and deliberate approach. Abdominal flex displays with a flying leap on the back of the female are executed in order to mount her. The female lashes her antennae and there is rhythmic S-bending of the abdomen.
after they mate, about 5-31% of the time the female with eat him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYp_Xi4AtAQ
Those mags don't have any good advice anyway. "100 ways to please your man". Dave Chapelle has good advice.
"Play with his balls, fix him a sandwhich and don't talk so much."
Well that didn't last long.
cross the river to the eastside
Haha, I'm just saying. It's not like it's a woman's responsibility to "please" their man. It's a mutual thing. He's gotta bite the bullet too.
Actually there's a whole team of writers, including women, who write their personal experiences into the show.
cross the river to the eastside
There are a few things one can do with the bullet, and I wouldn't suggest biting it.
cross the river to the eastside
Well, you know what I mean. All I wanted my ex to do is give me head while I played counter-strike. I'd have done anything she wanted.
Correction: I did everything she wanted.
I read your comment and thought you were talking about our Own Cosmo!! THEN I read the quote.
Re the the thread topic--you are SO right hippie. It is outrageous.
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
I would not dare speak that way of Our Own Cosmo. I have yet to hear his tips on 'How to Mantrap Your Pad'.
cross the river to the eastside
true. my point was solely that there's work to be done on both ends. i also think women do a poor job of communicating their message to men. it's the same as the left trying to reach middle america. middle america is by and large pretty dumb and traditional and dont like to have the boat rocked and the feminist message often comes off kinda incomprehensible at best to men and loony and dangerous at worst. joe guy can point to a girl in a mini-skirt like that and say "see, they LOVE being treated like sex objects." im working on trying to whip those guys into shape on my side of the gender line, so ill leave it up to you to keep those girls in check on your side
i just sent it off in an e-mail to a few friends/family who i think it would genuinely interest. it does make excellent points and absolutely, so much still remains to be done as of yet in regards to true gender equality, concern, etc. just as much still needs to be done for race relations, religious tolerance, and on and on. however, just because so much has been accomplished, and just because so much does still needs to be done...doesn't mean we shouldn't be shocked, or that we should stop discussing, etc. it IS needed for further progress on all fronts. what was it....."you've come a long way, baby".....? :rolleyes: apparently, not nearly long enough just yet.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
then why did victorygin claim it was a pro-women tv show that demonstrated strong female friendships? which is it?
i think this is the key problem in the feminist movement... just like any woman, they dont know what the fuck they want
likewise, half of women see 'sex and the city' as an inspiring show about women being free with their sexuality and taking control of their own lives. the other half see it as perpetuating the "every girl is slutty deep down" male fantasy while still reinforcing that, in the end, women only need/want a decent man to be happy.
it's no wonder guys don't know how to behave and what is and is not acceptable... women don't know this yet either, not even for themselves.
ok, i'll bite. first and foremost, whenever a woman comments about female related issues, it si not some 'feminist statement' or part of some front...it is simply a woman sharing her perspective.
and yea, that 'humor'...is exactly all part and parcel of all 'that' stuff, and i'll leave that be.
anyway, different people have different opni9ons, even women! so not all will agree. however, i think you are missing one part of the equation. i do not think anyone is suggesting that men cannot visually a ppreciate a woman, that if/when a woman wears something revealing he should not look, etc. also, if a woman wants to dress that way, it's her perogative. i hope no one is judging that. i think there i snothing wrong with it, anyone should feel free to dress however they choose.
i think the REAL issue is that sure go and look..but don't use the fact that a woman may be scanitly clad, wearing a revealing outfit, as an invitation to TOUCH, to make agressive physical advances....b/c a woman dressed as such is 'asking for it'...etc.
and sure, i don't think male or female there will EVER be one unified opinion on ANY of these things, the judgements/labels, etc...but discussing them, working on breaking down the stereotypes, etc...is a start. so sure, how one dresses is a reflection of them, what they want to share, etc...but it in no way should be misconstrued as anything beyond an invitation to look....and sure, looking/appreciating is one thing...but being verbally abusive about it, lewd comments, or crossing the line and touching without permission...something else entirely. i would think, male or female...we could hopefully at some point agree on that.
b/c the whole idea that a woman is 'asking for it'...simply by how she dresses still sadly exists, and it shouldn't.
anyway, i realize as usual..i went on a tangent.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Wow.
Im sending this arcticle to all my nieces, thank you hippiemom.
nothing.
merely pointing out the fact, WHY isn't the FACT that apparently females WERE targeted is NOT being discussed? and all the rest, just support of the idea that women are still objectified, are not yet fully on equal footing, that much is still dismissed, deemed ok, etc...that should not be. of course, this is what i get from it, in a nutshell.....but yea, just a spark for thinking/discussion of it ALL....not just the shooting, but of girls/women in society, etc.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Its a subtle mindset that permeates society, and then mushrooms into the kind of hatred and objectification of women (girls) that you saw in Pennsylvania.
Unpeel the layers a bit more dude, not everything is at face value in this world.
I could understand that if he attacked girls that were discussed in that article. Does objectification really lead to a hate that leads to murder? I can see it leading to little respect and having a skewed view that women are nothing more than meat but murderous hate? I think that they has to be something else involved for it to evolve into that.
no. cultural implies that it is ingrained into our society. and how the practices of that society and how the way men and women are portrayed manifests itself within that society.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Oh please!
Haven't you ever seen a porno?
Those people like to fuck, both of them.
The objectification goes beyond women, everyone is objectified. Open up a magazine and scope out the male models. Women dress scantily because they want men to look at them, but only the men they want to look at. It's the classic scene of the construction workers with ripped abs chillin out by the heavy machinery tearing their shirts off and pouring water all over their bodies. Everyone wants to be beautiful and sexy but they don't want to be objectified and they objectify others that are beutiful. Women ridicule female models as flakes and hoes because they are jealous of the lifestyle. Men do the same shit, male models are all morons. The difference between men and women as far as objectification is concerned is nill. As an example, my ex-girlfriend watched Wicker Park a billion times because she thinks Ashton Kutcher is sexy. I'm not saying all women are like, not all men are objectifiers either. All together, men and women are equal. The only differences are anatomical, if you don't agree with that then I guess you are an extreme feminist with a totally bias and sexist opinion.
peter steele from the band type O negative posed for playgirl. then he found out that only 23% of subscriptions are bought by women. HAH!!
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I know what cultural means.
You are narrow-sighted, you are only looking at one part of the equation because of your particular situation. The only thing ingrained into us is the animalist instinct for survival. It's nature to want to be beautiful, it's nature to be attracted to the best genetics. It's nature for all others to be jealous and act out against the best genetics. It's a two-way street, men and women both suffer from objectification and discrimination.
That is pretty funny.
wow, i am not even weighing in on all your post...just the idea that if one disagrees with YOUR opinion here, they must be biased, sexist, an extreme feminist? no room for leeway on that one eh?
you make some valid points, but i do not 100% agree with them. yes, both men and women objectify, both get judged, etc...but to the exact same degree? i personally disagree.
anyway, i think discussing it, for either/both genders..is a good thing. b/c the more an issue gets discussed, the more aware we all become, and hopefully the more we, and as a result - society, begin to alter our collective behavior to some extent.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
i love how your determination of best genetics is visual based. it is NOT nature to want to be beautiful.
but yes i agree with you that both men and women are objectified.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Are you saying that men and women are different otherwise? Perhaps women mature faster, maybe they make better parents, maybe they are more sensitive and spiritual naturally, maybe they are better drivers.
Maybe men are more intelligent and better in authoritive positions. Maybe men are more physically adept.
Maybe that's all bullshit from centuries past twisted and recalibrated into a feminists wet dream.
My point is we are equal, it doesn't matter to what degree men or women are objectified. It doesn't even really matter that they are objectified, it feeds our animalistic instincts and if the masses didn't like it, they wouldn't be doing it. It's not going to make or break our kids perceptions. Would it be better if we all dressed up like muslim women?