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Rumsfeld Gone!!!!!!!!!!

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    ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Americans should be proud

    A wretched era of American interventionism has come to an end.

    Simon Jenkins
    November 8, 2006 02:43 PM


    http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/simon_jenkins/2006/11/post_593.html

    The ugly American mark two is dead. Overnight six years of glib European identification of "American" with right-wing fundamentalism is over. The gun-toting, pre-Darwinian Bushite, the Tomahawk-wielding, Halliburton-loving, Beltway neo-con, damning abortion as murder and torturing Islamo-fascists has been lain to rest, and by a decision of the American people. Americans should be proud and the world should take note.

    Yesterday's result could hardly have been more emphatic. George Bush's election wizard, Karl Rove, said he would make America's midterm elections "a choice not a referendum". He would ask them to choose a congress not vote on his boss. The electorate did both. In a high turnout the majority rejected the tenets of the religious right and of "big government" neo-conservativism. They expressed concern over the corruption and warmongering of Washington and the state of their economy in Bush's hands. For the Republicans there were no consolations.

    The new congress is mandated to press ahead with a higher minimum wage, an end to pork-barrel budgeting, immigrant amnesty, energy conservation, stem cell research and radical changes to the drugs bill and welfare generally.

    Most of these may fall by the wayside, but they have behind them the winds of a mandate. Congress must find a way of curbing Bush's uncontrolled federal expenditure if a new Democrat president after 2008 is not to endure agonies of retrenchment. Whether Bush will decide to cooperate with such change in the hope of rescuing his floundering presidency is up to him. Certainly the only Republican of any stature, the war sceptic Senator John McCain, seems disinclined to help him.

    A CNN exit poll of swing issues put Iraq, terrorism, the economy and corruption of equal concern to voters, with the Republicans scoring badly on them all. The politics of fear has now lost its post-9/11 traction. Republicans mouthing dire threats of "islamo-fascists" under every bed are scorned. The most ferocious ad I saw had a solitary figure on any empty set telling Americans that they had become less popular round the world, that terrorism had become worse, that Americans were less safe, that gasoline was more expensive and Osama bin laden was still free - all because of one thing, "the war in Iraq".

    Over 60 per cent of electors want American troops withdrawn now or soon. The White House ran on a "pro-victory" ticket and lost. Yesterday's reports from Baghdad indicated widespread expectation and relief that American policy in that country is about to change. The American military is known to want to leave and Iraqis, whether those in power welcome it or not, sense the occupation is de facto over. At such a moment insurgency knows it has won, however long it takes the occupying power to go. Retreat becomes the only option. A wretched era of American interventionism has come to an end. A new day has dawned.
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    If I was George W right now I would want to strangle Rumsfeld. If he would have stepped down a week ago they would have faired much better yesterday. Why step down now when the damage of the election is already done? The alliance of Bush and Rumsfeld almost completely ruined them and now a day late they figured out a change is needed? Maybe Americans aren't as dumb as they thought.
    06/22/95, 11/04/95, 11/15/97, 07/16/98, 10/30/99, 10/30/00, 10/31/00, 10/20/01, 10/21/01, 12/08/02, 06/01/03, 06/06/03, 10/25/03, 10/26/03, 09/28/04, 03/18/05, 09/01/05, 07/15/06, 07/16/06, 07/18/06, 07/22/06, 07/23/06, 10/21/06, 10/22/06, 08/28/09, 09/21/09, 09/22/09, 05/20/10, 05/21/10, 10/24/10, 11/26/13, 12/06/13, 06/28/14, 10/26/14, 07/10/18, 08/10/18, 10/02/21, 
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    very curious timing indeed.
    lastexit78 wrote:
    If I was George W right now I would want to strangle Rumsfeld. If he would have stepped down a week ago they would have faired much better yesterday. Why step down now when the damage of the election is already done? The alliance of Bush and Rumsfeld almost completely ruined them and now a day late they figured out a change is needed? Maybe Americans aren't as dumb as they thought.
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    great news all around

    interesting that this Gates guy who's taking over for Rumsfeld is ex-CIA chief, good to see that they brought in a heavyweight to clean up

    don't really see how hiring from the intelligence community is going to improve Iraq though
    hate was just a legend
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    JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    TacoJammer wrote:
    I am betting the reason he is stepping down is because the Dems won and he is trying to dodge the investigation probes that would be comming his way. He is running scared. He is a man with lots of things to hide and the Dems winning risked him being fully exposed. Run Rummy, run as fast as you can you prick.

    That's what I'm thinking. Nonetheless, this is just fantastic news!
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    bgirl59bgirl59 Tucson AZ Posts: 888
    Abuskedti wrote:
    Maybe later today Bush will step down.

    Bump.
    Today, I can be a proud American once again!
    Peace
    PEARL JAM in 2024! Dark Matter and MORE ! THANK YOU!!   
    Peace Love & Pearl Jam forever!!
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    lastexit78 wrote:
    If I was George W right now I would want to strangle Rumsfeld. If he would have stepped down a week ago they would have faired much better yesterday. Why step down now when the damage of the election is already done? The alliance of Bush and Rumsfeld almost completely ruined them and now a day late they figured out a change is needed? Maybe Americans aren't as dumb as they thought.



    that cuz he wasnt planning on stepping down
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    bgirl59 wrote:
    Bump.
    Today, I can be a proud American once again!
    Peace

    just cause the face of the government is changing dosnt mean the policies will.
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    It's good to know the system still works. For a while I thought we were descending into a dictatorship. America is alive again.
    Intelligence is the key and she was locked out

    Let's Just Pop a Few Yards of Bubble Wrap and Call It a Day!

    Don't Die Wondering

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    know1know1 Posts: 6,765
    mammasan wrote:
    Recently released reports have stated that strategist believed that at least 400,000 troops would have been needed for the post war occupation and even with those numbers the possibility of sectarian violenceand even civil war would be great. That study was concluded well before our invasion. Generals from the Army War College where mentioning at least 350,000 troops for the occupation. None of these people where listened to. Yes we may have easily defeated the Iraqi military with less than 200,000 troops, but we did not have the necessary troops for an occupation. As Secretary of Defense he should have listened to his strategist and war planners all of which continuoesly stated that we needed more troops on the group for the occupation.

    As far as exit strategy they have presented none and, this is an assumption, by the way eventsare unfolding in Iraq there doesn't seem to be one or the one they had is failing miserably and they are unwilling or incapable of devising a new one.

    There is no debating the equipment issue. There where troops who where not provided body armor or out dated body armor. There where Humvees being used on patrols that did not have the proper armor plating to protect our troops from RPGs or IADs. I can understand if there was some type of logistical problem with getting supplies over there, but for the secretary of Defense to simply shrug it off with his comment is unacceptable. In my brother-in-laws platoon there where 10 troops who had no body armor or out dated body armor, one had a Vietnam era flack jacket for body armor. That's one third of his platoon that was not provided with the necessary equipment and their stories where not the only ones.

    Lastly this is not just about the battle, in case you haven't noticed our troops are still dying over there by the bunches and the battle has been over for years. The invasion phase may have gone off smoothly, but the occupation has been short of a complete failure.


    And would people have been happy with sending many, many more troops? Wouldn't that increase the chances that more might die?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
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    yes, I think you are correct, this is what I was thinking as well.
    TacoJammer wrote:
    Not likely. I am betting the reason he is stepping down is because the Dems won and he is trying to dodge the investigation probes that would be comming his way. He is running scared. He is a man with lots of things to hide and the Dems winning risked him being fully exposed. Run Rummy, run as fast as you can you prick.
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    bgirl59bgirl59 Tucson AZ Posts: 888
    just cause the face of the government is changing dosnt mean the policies will.
    Of course it does!
    changing as we speak!

    Ditto: It's good to know the system still works. For a while I thought we were descending into a dictatorship. America is alive again. Posted by TacoJammer
    PEARL JAM in 2024! Dark Matter and MORE ! THANK YOU!!   
    Peace Love & Pearl Jam forever!!
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    AstroFanAstroFan Posts: 193
    http://www.iava.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=2162&Itemid=67

    Iraq Veterans Applaud Decision to Replace Sec. Rumsfeld

    NEW YORK - The nation's first and largest non-partisan organization representing veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, IAVA, released the following statement from Executive Director Paul Rieckhoff in response to the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld:

    "This is welcome news for our troops and veterans who have been paying the price for Secretary Rumsfeld's failures," said Paul Rieckhoff, an Iraq War veteran and the executive director of IAVA. "The replacement of Donald Rumsfeld is one step down the very long road to correct the mistakes made in Iraq over the past three years."
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    inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    know1 wrote:
    And would people have been happy with sending many, many more troops?


    did it matter...?
    know1 wrote:
    Wouldn't that increase the chances that more might die?

    speculative...however, in theory, more troops = shorter war = less deaths...
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    normnorm I'm always home. I'm uncool. Posts: 31,146
    TacoJammer wrote:
    Not likely. I am betting the reason he is stepping down is because the Dems won and he is trying to dodge the investigation probes that would be comming his way. He is running scared. He is a man with lots of things to hide and the Dems winning risked him being fully exposed. Run Rummy, run as fast as you can you prick.
    Short of pulling a Kenny Lay, he will stand trial for war crimes. I can hope can't I?
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    know1 wrote:
    And would people have been happy with sending many, many more troops? Wouldn't that increase the chances that more might die?

    I support the war, but I really wish they had sent more troops to begin with. There's no way they can squash this insurgency, calm secretarian violence, secure the borders, and rebuild infastructure with the number of troops they have. The quickest way to get everyone home is to send more troops over now, otherwise we are going to just drag this out for another 5-10 years with a few troops dying every other day. Also, can't say I'm suprised Rumsfield left, hopefully gates has a little better vision of what needs to be done in order to eventually begin to think about bringing troops home.
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    cutback wrote:
    Short of pulling a Kenny Lay, he will stand trial for war crimes. I can hope can't I?

    I would throw that in the same area as Bush being impeached, not going to happen, and shouldn't happen.
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    Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Washington DC Posts: 7,258
    I'm happy to hear the news :D
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
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    soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Americans should be proud

    A wretched era of American interventionism has come to an end.

    Simon Jenkins
    November 8, 2006 02:43 PM


    The ugly American mark two is dead. Overnight six years of glib European identification of "American" with right-wing fundamentalism is over. The gun-toting, pre-Darwinian Bushite, the Tomahawk-wielding, Halliburton-loving, Beltway neo-con, damning abortion as murder and torturing Islamo-fascists has been lain to rest, and by a decision of the American people. Americans should be proud and the world should take note.

    easy there folks. this is very debatable given that all marijuana referendums failed and gay marriage bans passed. there is no mandate on social issues. it's not a resounding victory. the dems have to deliver on being a meaningful alternative, or the republicans will be back in force in no time.
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    easy there folks. this is very debatable given that all marijuana referendums failed and gay marriage bans passed. there is no mandate on social issues. it's not a resounding victory. the dems have to deliver on being a meaningful alternative, or the republicans will be back in force in no time.

    maybe someone will actually give an inspiring speech about how peace could actually work if everyone got involved,...
    you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
    ~Ron Burgundy
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    I would throw that in the same area as Bush being impeached, not going to happen, and shouldn't happen.

    No doubt. I voted for Gore, Kerry, and just voted against Santorum but lets put these past couple years of bullshit politics behind us and work together for make benefit glorious nation of America.

    It's not all that utopian of an idea!
    The less you know, the more you believe.
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    not the ground, but somewhere else dark.


    It has to be up his ass since everything he says is shit anyway.
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    It has to be up his ass since everything he says is shit anyway.

    I loved his eloquent words when he came out of the place he voted. Very well spoken. :rolleyes: Only 2 years, 2 months, and 2 weeks or so left of his bullshit.
    No longer overwhelmed it seems so simple now.
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    andychandych Posts: 130
    Whoever we are
    Wherever we're from
    We shoulda noticed by now
    Our behavior is dumb
    And if our chances
    Expect to improve
    It's gonna take a lot more
    Than tryin' to remove
    The other race
    Or the other whatever
    From the face
    Of the planet altogether
    They call it THE EARTH
    Which is a dumb kinda name
    But they named it right
    'Cause we behave the same...
    We are dumb all over
    Dumb all over,
    Yes we are
    Dumb all over,
    Near'n far
    Dumb all over
    Black 'n white
    People, we is not wrapped tight
    Nurds on the left
    Nurds on the right
    Religious fanatics
    On the air every night
    Sayin' the Bible
    Tells the story
    Makes the details
    Sound real gory
    'Bout what to do
    If the geeks over there
    Don't believe in the book
    We got over here
    You can't run a race
    Without no feet
    'N pretty soon
    There won't be no street
    For dummies to jog on
    Or doggies to dog on
    Religious fanatics
    Can make it be all gone
    (I mean it won't blow up
    'N disappear
    It'll just look ugly
    For a thousand years...)
    You can't run a country
    By a book of religion
    Not by a heap
    Or a lump or a smidgeon
    Of foolish rules
    Of ancient date
    Designed to make
    You all feel great
    While you fold, spindle
    And mutilate
    Those unbelievers
    From a neighboring state
    TO ARMS! TO ARMS!
    Hooray! That's great
    Two legs ain't bad
    Unless there's a crate
    They ship the parts
    To mama in
    For souvenirs: two ears (Get down!)
    Not his, not hers (but what the hey?)
    The Good Book says:
    "It's gotta be that way!"
    But their book says:
    "REVENGE THE CRUSADES. . .
    With whips 'n chains
    'N hand grenades. . ."
    TWO ARMS? TWO ARMS?
    Have another and another
    Our Cod says:
    "There ain't no other!"
    Our Cod says
    "It's all okay!"
    Our God says "This is the way!"
    It says in the book:
    "Burn 'n destroy. ..
    'N repent, 'n redeem
    'N revenge, 'n deploy
    'N rumble thee forth
    To the land of the unbelieving scum on the other side
    'Cause they don't go for what's in the book
    'N that makes 'em BAD
    So verily we must choppeth them up
    And stompeth them down
    Or rent a nice French bomb
    To poof them out of existence
    While leaving their real estate just where we need it
    To use again
    For temples in which to praise OURGOD
    ("Cause he can really take care of business!")
    And when his humble TV servant
    With humble white hair
    And humble glasses
    And a nice brown suit
    And maybe a blonde wife who takes phone calls
    Tells us our God says
    It's okay to do this stuff
    Then we gotta do it,
    'Cause if we don't do it,
    We ain't gwine up to hebbin!
    (Depending on which book you're using at the time...
    Can't use theirs. . .it don't work . . .it's all lies...Gotta use mine...)
    Ain't that right?
    That's what they say
    Every night...
    Everyday. ..
    Hey, we can't really be dumb
    If we're just following
    God's Orders
    Hey, let's get serious...
    God knows what he's doin'
    He wrote this book here
    An'the book says:
    He made us all to be just like Him,"
    so...
    If we're dumb...
    Then God is dumb...
    (An' maybe even a little ugly on the side)
    dead head



    Bern 13/9/06
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    mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    know1 wrote:
    And would people have been happy with sending many, many more troops? Wouldn't that increase the chances that more might die?

    People would have been happy if this war was managed properly, which it wasn't. That is a direct reflection upon Rumsfeld.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
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    I'll miss his condescending press conferences.
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    bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,623
    maybe someone will actually give an inspiring speech about how peace could actually work if everyone got involved,...

    Yes, but German, France, China, and Russia are fueled by their own self-interests, so they won't participate. Which is why we are in the shape we are in with Iraq, Iran, and North Korea.
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    inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    Yes, but German, France, China, and Russia are fueled by their own self-interests, so they won't participate. Which is why we are in the shape we are in with Iraq, Iran, and North Korea.

    no, the "shape" is our doing...no one else...
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    CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,224
    know1 wrote:
    Why is it great news?

    I do not support or oppose him, but I wonder if you could list your reasons.
    ...
    You don't follow the news much, do you?
    There's this War going on in a place called 'Iraq'... well, this Donald Rumsfeld fellow is basically calling the shots there and he hasn't been doing such a great job. He's kinda fucking over our troops there and the Americans are getting tired of it.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
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    the ones where he asks himself questions, classic Rummy.
    John Budge wrote:
    I'll miss his condescending press conferences.
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