tht is for damn certain. i worked for the inner-city foster care system in chicago. those girls were NOT having abortions. nor were they using any birth control. why? because the same folks who want to outlaw abortion also want to make sure teenagers never hear the word condom and can't get a birth control prescription without a fire and brimstone sermon attached.
seriously...that's why it amazes me to see those who offer up ALL options being villianized? i find it FAr more disturbing to think what one does NOT learn, or has access to...simply b/c it goes against the teachings of certain groups morals. GREAt if those are your morals, but don't act as you are offering unbiased advice or all access to all options..when clearly you are not.
and that's TRULY the part i...just...don't....*get*.
if you are soooo anti-abortion, why be anti-education or anti-BC? i mean honestly, what do these groups WANT? me personally, i would LOVE to see so few abortions that they hardly are even a blip in the statistics, b/c ALL women have such easy and safe access to ALL forms of BC, it is so affordable...and all are so well educated in it's use, no social stigmas, etc.....and i am pro-choice, so go figure eh? aren't i meant to be a pro-abortion baby killer? seems to me that many so against abortion do the most damage to perpetuate it.
but i guess it's just so much more fun to just state things as 'fact'...w/o documentation. i would find that a VERY surprising stat, if it is indeed true...so i very much remain skeptical w/o proof.
however, even if it WERE true.....hmmmm.....what's the point? what does this 'prove'....? i fail to see it....
im sure you are. do you have horns and red hot poker?
anyhoo... pregnant women should be handed all the choices they can be in order that they be able to make an informed decision about their future. and all those choices should be legal. if you are not one of the possibly two people involved in this decision then you need to mind your own business cause its not your concern.
absolutely.
but please, again, don't state things so matter of factly, objectively...it just shows your bias.
Frequently, the people who say "you don't know what you're talking about" say that because they really have no clue. They don't know that they don't know what they're talking about. And they frequently offer comments that make absolutely no sense, like the one you just typed out.
Think before you type.
Consider what you just said: abortionists work at abortion clinics in addition to their primary practice.
While they're working at the abortion clinic, they're not adivising women to leave the clinic and visit their OB/GYN office to deliver the child. The women are there to get an abortion. This assumes that the abortionist has another office that does not do abortions, which you have provided no statistical evidence for.
Here's what you said:
Abortionists never deliver babies at abortion clinics, and that was all I was saying.
You also do not have any proof that when abortionists leave their abortion mill, they suddenly go back to their private practice and deliver a bunch of babies. You're just making stuff up and there is no data to support that claim. Abortion is the most common medical surgery in America. There's no reason to believe that abortionists dabble in both deliveries and abortions.
When abortionists want to make the real bucks, they butcher babies at an abortion mill. That's why they do it - not because they support a woman's right to choose or whatever. It's quick and profitable.
This is all made up. Abortion is the most common surgical procedure, and there is a vast business in it. The rest of the medical world is concerned with treatment and life-giving, while abortionists throw babies in the trash.
It is its own medical sphere and there is a significant shadow cast upon those who enter it. Most doctors choose to enter less controversial medical practices because abortion is stigmatized among the medical community.
Again, you're just making stuff up to make it seem like abortion is widely accepted in the medical community. No evidence for your claims at all.
No, you simply don't comprehend what I said.
Abortions are a one time procedure. You're in, you're out. One time payment.
Pre-natal care consists of multiple visits with small fees with the same patient. They take up considerable time and there are multiple variables that can increase the time the patient spends there.
It is not profitable to encounter new situations that take up the doctor's time. There are far more variables when the doctor is trying to deliver a healthy baby instead of abort the baby and make sure the girl can get out of the clinic before closing time.
Abortion clinics operate like assembly lines. The same basic procedure happens over and over.
Pre-natal care centers operate like marketing firms. Each client is special and it takes time to address their needs.
...whatever...
given that you are a student at a small, elite, conservative private school... where do you get YOUR information from? my guess is it comes from your campus young life group. there is so much misinformation in that crowd, it's absurd that you're trying to present yourself as an authority on this.
and i assume by this:
"Abortion is the most common surgical procedure, and there is a vast business in it. The rest of the medical world is concerned with treatment and life-giving, while abortionists throw babies in the trash."
you are referring to the cosmetic surgery industry? THAT is where the business is at, and nothing life-giving about it.
As for the pro-abortion, anti-abortion, pro-life, anti-life, pro-choice, anti-choice......... does it really matter what you call it? At the end of the day, one either believes a woman has a right to an abortion, or they don't. And one side of the argument is never going to convince the other side of the argument to change sides.
Yes it matters. You said that my statement about life begginging at conceptions is 'my truth' as if it is a subjective truth. Surely when one personis claiming the right to kill a human being on the grounds that it is 'sub human' and another rejects this and affirms the baby's human rights, this is a matter of objective truth not subjective opinion. You have not responded to the main point of my post which is that dependancy (saying that the fetus has no human rights because it is dependant on the mother) is false since it continues to be dependant after birth. If you are going to say that anyone who has a 'dependant' human being has the right to kill that dependant, we could have a lot of people justifying killing their disabled patients and one year old children.
example please? you obviously had something specific in mind with your initial posts, but don't have the courage to voice it. perhaps it is your ego that is being protected, by your refusal to discuss what you perceive to be the biases being acted out in the conduct of pro-choice workers at clinics? you hinted at it, and then when challenged retreat into these vague evasions.
I speak directly to the points I need to make. I speak to underlying and general principles that I see. People can draw their own generalizations based on what I say, or not.
When I am not speaking to points others expect me to, or think I really mean to, and when others project their personal judgment on that, it's not about me.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Yes it matters. You said that my statement about life begginging at conceptions is 'my truth' as if it is a subjective truth. Surely when one personis claiming the right to kill a human being on the grounds that it is 'sub human' and another rejects this and affirms the baby's human rights, this is a matter of objective truth not subjective opinion. You have not responded to the main point of my post which is that dependancy (saying that the fetus has no human rights because it is dependant on the mother) is false since it continues to be dependant after birth. If you are going to say that anyone who has a 'dependant' human being has the right to kill that dependant, we could have a lot of people justifying killing their disabled patients and one year old children.
there is a huge difference between dependent and parasitic. a young child could be cared for by ANY random person and survive. a fetus can survive nowhere other than inside the womb of the woman that conceived it.
well shit angelica how could people possibly acknowledge something they are unconscious of in the first place? once its acknowledged tis no longer unconscious is it?
the fact still remains that people are biased all the time, and receive the consequences for being so. And then they will often tend to deny it to maintain the status quo, while perpetuating the cycles unwittingly.
Others seek to expand their awareness and face their own limitations in order to move beyond them and grow.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Yes it matters. You said that my statement about life begginging at conceptions is 'my truth' as if it is a subjective truth. Surely when one personis claiming the right to kill a human being on the grounds that it is 'sub human' and another rejects this and affirms the baby's human rights, this is a matter of objective truth not subjective opinion. You have not responded to the main point of my post which is that dependancy (saying that the fetus has no human rights because it is dependant on the mother) is false since it continues to be dependant after birth. If you are going to say that anyone who has a 'dependant' human being has the right to kill that dependant, we could have a lot of people justifying killing their disabled patients and one year old children.
youre wrong tim. after a child is born the total dependence on its birth mother ceases. it can obtain all it needs for survival from an alternate source.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
the fact still remains that people are biased all the time, and receive the consequences for being so. And then they will often tend to deny it to maintain the status quo, while perpetuating the cycles unwittingly.
Others seek to expand their awareness and face their own limitations in order to move beyond them and grow.
nice evasion btw.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I speak directly to the points I need to make. I speak to underlying and general principles that I see. People can draw their own generalizations based on what I say, or not.
When I am not speaking to points others expect me to, or think I really mean to, and when others project their personal judgment on that, it's not about me.
who said anything about judgment? i've simply been curious as hell about these biased actions of pro-choice clinicians that you kept alluding to. maybe i could learn something. but the more you hedge and evade the more certain i become that you have nothing but meaningless platitudes.
furthermore, you don't NEED to make any points. you choose to make points. you caught my eye because you chose to make certain points, but then ran away from them and tried to change the subject from what pro-choice clinicians do or say that is so biased into some abstract meditation on how humans have biases (gee, thanks for that stunning insight). that, to me, reveals an incredible amount of insecurity in your own positions and opinions and a fear of having to actually defend them. so instead, you use the defense mechanism of claiming that anyone who doesn't understand you has a problem, thus preserving your own egotistical presumption that your communication is flawlessly on point.
Frequently, the people who say "you don't know what you're talking about" say that because they really have no clue. They don't know that they don't know what they're talking about. And they frequently offer comments that make absolutely no sense, like the one you just typed out.
Think before you type.
Consider what you just said: abortionists work at abortion clinics in addition to their primary practice.
While they're working at the abortion clinic, they're not adivising women to leave the clinic and visit their OB/GYN office to deliver the child. The women are there to get an abortion. This assumes that the abortionist has another office that does not do abortions, which you have provided no statistical evidence for.
Here's what you said:
Abortionists never deliver babies at abortion clinics, and that was all I was saying.
You also do not have any proof that when abortionists leave their abortion mill, they suddenly go back to their private practice and deliver a bunch of babies. You're just making stuff up and there is no data to support that claim. Abortion is the most common medical surgery in America. There's no reason to believe that abortionists dabble in both deliveries and abortions.
When abortionists want to make the real bucks, they butcher babies at an abortion mill. That's why they do it - not because they support a woman's right to choose or whatever. It's quick and profitable.
This is all made up. Abortion is the most common surgical procedure, and there is a vast business in it. The rest of the medical world is concerned with treatment and life-giving, while abortionists throw babies in the trash.
It is its own medical sphere and there is a significant shadow cast upon those who enter it. Most doctors choose to enter less controversial medical practices because abortion is stigmatized among the medical community.
Again, you're just making stuff up to make it seem like abortion is widely accepted in the medical community. No evidence for your claims at all.
No, you simply don't comprehend what I said.
Abortions are a one time procedure. You're in, you're out. One time payment.
Pre-natal care consists of multiple visits with small fees with the same patient. They take up considerable time and there are multiple variables that can increase the time the patient spends there.
It is not profitable to encounter new situations that take up the doctor's time. There are far more variables when the doctor is trying to deliver a healthy baby instead of abort the baby and make sure the girl can get out of the clinic before closing time.
Abortion clinics operate like assembly lines. The same basic procedure happens over and over.
Pre-natal care centers operate like marketing firms. Each client is special and it takes time to address their needs.
...whatever...
I'm going to tell you this once, and then by the time I get back from having dinner with my abortionist friends I'll probably regret it and try to delete:
I currently and for the past many years run the maternal, child, & reproductive health program at my state's primary hospital and medical school. I know nearly every abortion provider and many maternity care providers in the state, their schedules, their clinics, their revenue, and their intentions. I am responsible for keeping up with the numbers of prenatal and abortion patients, and ensuring that family medicine docs are trained in prenatal care, deliveries, and abortions in accord with national guidelines. I schedule where they see patients and what kind of patients they see - so I sure as fuck know who they're seeing, why, and where. Don't tell me I'm making shit up.
I'll say it again: You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Now let's see if you're a big enough man to not quote me, thereby leaving me the option to delete this personal info later.
I'm going to tell you this once, and then by the time I get back from having dinner with my abortionist friends I'll probably regret it and try to delete:
I currently and for the past many years run the maternal, child, & reproductive health program at my state's primary hospital and medical school. I know nearly every abortion provider and many maternity care providers in the state, their schedules, their clinics, their revenue, and their intentions. I am responsible for keeping up with the numbers of prenatal and abortion patients, and ensuring that family medicine docs are trained in prenatal care, deliveries, and abortions in accord with national guidelines. I schedule where they see patients and what kind of patients they see - so I sure as fuck know who they're seeing, why, and where. Don't tell me I'm making shit up.
I'll say it again: You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Now let's see if you're a big enough man to not quote me, thereby leaving me the option to delete this personal info later.
i had to quote this because it's fucking awesome. i'm not usually big on cyber-speak, but 'pwned' seems appropriate here. talk about a big league smack down. anyway, i'll delete this when and if you want, just ask
I'm going to tell you this once, and then by the time I get back from having dinner with my abortionist friends I'll probably regret it and try to delete:
I currently and for the past many years run the maternal, child, & reproductive health program at my state's primary hospital and medical school. I know nearly every abortion provider and many maternity care providers in the state, their schedules, their clinics, their revenue, and their intentions. I am responsible for keeping up with the numbers of prenatal and abortion patients, and ensuring that family medicine docs are trained in prenatal care, deliveries, and abortions in accord with national guidelines. I schedule where they see patients and what kind of patients they see - so I sure as fuck know who they're seeing, why, and where. Don't tell me I'm making shit up.
I'll say it again: You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Now let's see if you're a big enough man to not quote me, thereby leaving me the option to delete this personal info later.
I see you're pretty smart, but obviously not smart enough to cite any evidence for your claims about abortion doctors and the profitability of their industry.
I love how you think yer the fuckin authority on the abortion industry in america because you run a glorified self-help program. Whatever. You need facts to prove what you're saying, not a lot of happytalk about whatever your profession may or may not be. If your work experience is so informative, surely there is a news article, scholarly study, or guttmacher webpage you can cite.
I guess I'm supposed to simply trust you because you have an anecdotal knowledge of the abortion industry in your state, however representative your state happens to be of the overall abortion industry.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
I see you're pretty smart, but obviously not smart enough to cite any evidence for your claims about abortion doctors and the profitability of their industry.
I love how you think yer the fuckin authority on the abortion industry in america because you run a glorified self-help program. Whatever. You need facts to prove what you're saying, not a lot of happytalk about whatever your profession may or may not be. If your work experience is so informative, surely there is a news article, scholarly study, or guttmacher webpage you can cite.
I guess I'm supposed to simply trust you because you have an anecdotal knowledge of the abortion industry in your state, however representative your state happens to be of the overall abortion industry.
so THIS is the sound of a small child desperately hoping his "is not" will be the last word?
also, since when are state hospitals "self help" programs? or are you just upset that reality doesn't support the claims of your church's 'abortion is murder' pamphlet?
I see you're pretty smart, but obviously not smart enough to cite any evidence for your claims about abortion doctors and the profitability of their industry.
I love how you think yer the fuckin authority on the abortion industry in america because you run a glorified self-help program. Whatever. You need facts to prove what you're saying, not a lot of happytalk about whatever your profession may or may not be. If your work experience is so informative, surely there is a news article, scholarly study, or guttmacher webpage you can cite.
I guess I'm supposed to simply trust you because you have an anecdotal knowledge of the abortion industry in your state, however representative your state happens to be of the overall abortion industry.
No. Apparently YOU are the expert here, huh?
Glorified self-help program. Is that what you took from what she said? The states primary hospital and medical school? Self help? What?
Seriously... Do you have problems with reading comprehension? That may explain your totally twisted beliefs on the subject. Hmmm.....
.
so THIS is the sound of a small child desperately hoping his "is not" will be the last word?
also, since when are state hospitals "self help" programs? or are you just upset that reality doesn't support the claims of your church's 'abortion is murder' pamphlet?
You claim to know where I go to college though you recently came on the board, which leads me to believe yer one of them rabblerousers who got booted.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
You claim to know where I go to college though you recently came on the board, which leads me to believe yer one of them rabblerousers who got booted.
way to avoid answering. where does YOUR expertise on abortion clinic practices come from? i have yet to see you post a single fact on here either. so pot, meet the kettle.
I'm just using common business rationale. Y'all are the ones claiming that I'm wrong, but yer not using any business models or anything. So I assume there must be some evidence.
All yer doing is playing the "deny deny deny" game. And then you say "No, I'm an expert and I run a self-help program in the basement of the local hospital on Tuesday nights.
haha, everyone does it: they talk up their job like it's big shit...give themselves a big-shot title and tell me I don't know what I'm tawkin' about, and I should just take their word for it. Whatever. OooOOo, on the Pearl Jam message board, I find myself arguing with the AUTHORITY on this subject. haha, please...
Glorified self-help program. Is that what you took from what she said? The states primary hospital and medical school? Self help? What?
Seriously... Do you have problems with reading comprehension? That may explain your totally twisted beliefs on the subject. Hmmm.....
.
I have no reason to believe it is anything more than that. It's big talk, little product. I'm not going to sit here and brag about all of my knowledge about business because I'm just making points. The points should be true regardless of who says them.
That's how educated people converse.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
I see you're pretty smart, but obviously not smart enough to cite any evidence for your claims about abortion doctors and the profitability of their industry.
I love how you think yer the fuckin authority on the abortion industry in america because you run a glorified self-help program. Whatever. You need facts to prove what you're saying, not a lot of happytalk about whatever your profession may or may not be. If your work experience is so informative, surely there is a news article, scholarly study, or guttmacher webpage you can cite.
I guess I'm supposed to simply trust you because you have an anecdotal knowledge of the abortion industry in your state, however representative your state happens to be of the overall abortion industry.
Whatever. I know what I'm talking about. I don't have statistics right next to me because I know and live the data so I don't have to constantly refer to it. If I feel like taking the time to dig up exact data, you'll be the first to know.
Thanks for being a big man and quoting my personal info though.
way to avoid answering. where does YOUR expertise on abortion clinic practices come from? i have yet to see you post a single fact on here either. so pot, meet the kettle.
I think you chose that sn because I used "catch-22" in one of my posts. I'm honored El Kabong?
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
i had to quote this because it's fucking awesome. i'm not usually big on cyber-speak, but 'pwned' seems appropriate here. talk about a big league smack down. anyway, i'll delete this when and if you want, just ask
What's 'pwned'? (I guess I'm not big on cyber-speak either. )
Thanks for offering to delete the quote. That's nice of you. Guess it's too late now.
I'm just using common business rationale. Y'all are the ones claiming that I'm wrong, but yer not using any business models or anything. So I assume there must be some evidence.
All yer doing is playing the "deny deny deny" game. And then you say "No, I'm an expert and I run a self-help program in the basement of the local hospital on Tuesday nights.
haha, everyone does it: they talk up their job like it's big shit...give themselves a big-shot title and tell me I don't know what I'm tawkin' about, and I should just take their word for it. Whatever. OooOOo, on the Pearl Jam message board, I find myself arguing with the AUTHORITY on this subject. haha, please...
I have no reason to believe it is anything more than that. It's big talk, little product. I'm not going to sit here and brag about all of my knowledge about business because I'm just making points. The points should be true regardless of who says them.
That's how educated people converse.
and what points are those? you've made no points. you claim to be some sort of business authority and this is just common sense business. but it isn't when your entire premise on the profitability and functioning is false. which is exactly what the other poster is arguing and you have not made a single true, fact-based point to rebut them. i'd love to see you try.
as to my being a retread, it isn't the case. this post is my proof. your entire tone, unerring conviction of your absolute correctness, and obsession with business models gives you away as a prep-school WASP. virginia eh? william and mary?
Whatever. I know what I'm talking about. I don't have statistics right next to me because I know and live the data so I don't have to constantly refer to it. If I feel like taking the time to dig up exact data, you'll be the first to know.
Whatever, yer the boss.
Thanks for being a big man and quoting my personal info though.
haha, everyone does it: they talk up their job like it's big shit...give themselves a big-shot title and tell me I don't know what I'm tawkin' about, and I should just take their word for it. Whatever. OooOOo, on the Pearl Jam message board, I find myself arguing with the AUTHORITY on this subject. haha, please...
Whatever, DUDE.
I happen to know where she works and what she does.
What's 'pwned'? (I guess I'm not big on cyber-speak either. )
Thanks for offering to delete the quote. That's nice of you. Guess it's too late now.
cyber-speak for 'owned.' i assume it was a typo at first, now it's some lame thing teens use to act like they've won. thought it would be right on corporatewhore's level
I see you're pretty smart, but obviously not smart enough to cite any evidence for your claims about abortion doctors and the profitability of their industry.
I love how you think yer the fuckin authority on the abortion industry in america because you run a glorified self-help program. Whatever. You need facts to prove what you're saying, not a lot of happytalk about whatever your profession may or may not be. If your work experience is so informative, surely there is a news article, scholarly study, or guttmacher webpage you can cite.
I guess I'm supposed to simply trust you because you have an anecdotal knowledge of the abortion industry in your state, however representative your state happens to be of the overall abortion industry.
She wasn't trying to prove she was the authority on abortion. She was giving an actual reason on why her statements carry more weight than someone without her experience pulling assumptions out of their ass. By the way, why must she be the only one to provide links to articles to back up what she's saying? This whole time you've been trying to get us to believe that doctors perform abortions only for money and the only evidence you have given us is your deductive reasoning which, no offense or anything, isn't exactly the best thing to trust.
I'm just using common business rationale. Y'all are the ones claiming that I'm wrong, but yer not using any business models or anything. So I assume there must be some evidence.
All yer doing is playing the "deny deny deny" game. And then you say "No, I'm an expert and I run a self-help program in the basement of the local hospital on Tuesday nights.
haha, everyone does it: they talk up their job like it's big shit...give themselves a big-shot title and tell me I don't know what I'm tawkin' about, and I should just take their word for it. Whatever. OooOOo, on the Pearl Jam message board, I find myself arguing with the AUTHORITY on this subject. haha, please...
I have no reason to believe it is anything more than that. It's big talk, little product. I'm not going to sit here and brag about all of my knowledge about business because I'm just making points. The points should be true regardless of who says them.
That's how educated people converse.
For the record, I'm not bragging. You said I don't know what I'm talking about and I said I do. Simple as that. I know about the things I was talking about & I don't speak with any kind of authority about the things I don't know about. Don't question people's knowledge if you don't want to know where it comes from.
and what points are those? you've made no points. you claim to be some sort of business authority and this is just common sense business. but it isn't when your entire premise on the profitability and functioning is false. which is exactly what the other poster is arguing and you have not made a single true, fact-based point to rebut them. i'd love to see you try.
as to my being a retread, it isn't the case. this post is my proof. your entire tone, unerring conviction of your absolute correctness, and obsession with business models gives you away as a prep-school WASP. virginia eh? william and mary?
Lollers, not anglo-saxon protestant thanks be to God.
Ooo, your powers of deduction are incredible!! You must be Kabonkers.
As for my business claims, alls ya gotsta do is read 'em smartypants. It's just dang ole' common sense that you can make more money when ya've got economies of scale and yer providing the most common surgical procedure in America.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
cyber-speak for 'owned.' i assume it was a typo at first, now it's some lame thing teens use to act like they've won. thought it would be right on corporatewhore's level
Comments
seriously...that's why it amazes me to see those who offer up ALL options being villianized? i find it FAr more disturbing to think what one does NOT learn, or has access to...simply b/c it goes against the teachings of certain groups morals. GREAt if those are your morals, but don't act as you are offering unbiased advice or all access to all options..when clearly you are not.
and that's TRULY the part i...just...don't....*get*.
if you are soooo anti-abortion, why be anti-education or anti-BC? i mean honestly, what do these groups WANT? me personally, i would LOVE to see so few abortions that they hardly are even a blip in the statistics, b/c ALL women have such easy and safe access to ALL forms of BC, it is so affordable...and all are so well educated in it's use, no social stigmas, etc.....and i am pro-choice, so go figure eh? aren't i meant to be a pro-abortion baby killer? seems to me that many so against abortion do the most damage to perpetuate it.
i would LOVE to see some stats for this:
but i guess it's just so much more fun to just state things as 'fact'...w/o documentation. i would find that a VERY surprising stat, if it is indeed true...so i very much remain skeptical w/o proof.
however, even if it WERE true.....hmmmm.....what's the point? what does this 'prove'....? i fail to see it....
and as ever...
absolutely.
but please, again, don't state things so matter of factly, objectively...it just shows your bias.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
given that you are a student at a small, elite, conservative private school... where do you get YOUR information from? my guess is it comes from your campus young life group. there is so much misinformation in that crowd, it's absurd that you're trying to present yourself as an authority on this.
and i assume by this:
"Abortion is the most common surgical procedure, and there is a vast business in it. The rest of the medical world is concerned with treatment and life-giving, while abortionists throw babies in the trash."
you are referring to the cosmetic surgery industry? THAT is where the business is at, and nothing life-giving about it.
Yes it matters. You said that my statement about life begginging at conceptions is 'my truth' as if it is a subjective truth. Surely when one personis claiming the right to kill a human being on the grounds that it is 'sub human' and another rejects this and affirms the baby's human rights, this is a matter of objective truth not subjective opinion. You have not responded to the main point of my post which is that dependancy (saying that the fetus has no human rights because it is dependant on the mother) is false since it continues to be dependant after birth. If you are going to say that anyone who has a 'dependant' human being has the right to kill that dependant, we could have a lot of people justifying killing their disabled patients and one year old children.
When I am not speaking to points others expect me to, or think I really mean to, and when others project their personal judgment on that, it's not about me.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
there is a huge difference between dependent and parasitic. a young child could be cared for by ANY random person and survive. a fetus can survive nowhere other than inside the womb of the woman that conceived it.
Others seek to expand their awareness and face their own limitations in order to move beyond them and grow.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
youre wrong tim. after a child is born the total dependence on its birth mother ceases. it can obtain all it needs for survival from an alternate source.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
nice evasion btw.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
who said anything about judgment? i've simply been curious as hell about these biased actions of pro-choice clinicians that you kept alluding to. maybe i could learn something. but the more you hedge and evade the more certain i become that you have nothing but meaningless platitudes.
furthermore, you don't NEED to make any points. you choose to make points. you caught my eye because you chose to make certain points, but then ran away from them and tried to change the subject from what pro-choice clinicians do or say that is so biased into some abstract meditation on how humans have biases (gee, thanks for that stunning insight). that, to me, reveals an incredible amount of insecurity in your own positions and opinions and a fear of having to actually defend them. so instead, you use the defense mechanism of claiming that anyone who doesn't understand you has a problem, thus preserving your own egotistical presumption that your communication is flawlessly on point.
I'm going to tell you this once, and then by the time I get back from having dinner with my abortionist friends I'll probably regret it and try to delete:
I currently and for the past many years run the maternal, child, & reproductive health program at my state's primary hospital and medical school. I know nearly every abortion provider and many maternity care providers in the state, their schedules, their clinics, their revenue, and their intentions. I am responsible for keeping up with the numbers of prenatal and abortion patients, and ensuring that family medicine docs are trained in prenatal care, deliveries, and abortions in accord with national guidelines. I schedule where they see patients and what kind of patients they see - so I sure as fuck know who they're seeing, why, and where. Don't tell me I'm making shit up.
I'll say it again: You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Now let's see if you're a big enough man to not quote me, thereby leaving me the option to delete this personal info later.
i had to quote this because it's fucking awesome. i'm not usually big on cyber-speak, but 'pwned' seems appropriate here. talk about a big league smack down. anyway, i'll delete this when and if you want, just ask
I see you're pretty smart, but obviously not smart enough to cite any evidence for your claims about abortion doctors and the profitability of their industry.
I love how you think yer the fuckin authority on the abortion industry in america because you run a glorified self-help program. Whatever. You need facts to prove what you're saying, not a lot of happytalk about whatever your profession may or may not be. If your work experience is so informative, surely there is a news article, scholarly study, or guttmacher webpage you can cite.
I guess I'm supposed to simply trust you because you have an anecdotal knowledge of the abortion industry in your state, however representative your state happens to be of the overall abortion industry.
-Enoch Powell
so THIS is the sound of a small child desperately hoping his "is not" will be the last word?
also, since when are state hospitals "self help" programs? or are you just upset that reality doesn't support the claims of your church's 'abortion is murder' pamphlet?
No. Apparently YOU are the expert here, huh?
Glorified self-help program. Is that what you took from what she said? The states primary hospital and medical school? Self help? What?
Seriously... Do you have problems with reading comprehension? That may explain your totally twisted beliefs on the subject. Hmmm.....
.
You claim to know where I go to college though you recently came on the board, which leads me to believe yer one of them rabblerousers who got booted.
-Enoch Powell
way to avoid answering. where does YOUR expertise on abortion clinic practices come from? i have yet to see you post a single fact on here either. so pot, meet the kettle.
I'm just using common business rationale. Y'all are the ones claiming that I'm wrong, but yer not using any business models or anything. So I assume there must be some evidence.
All yer doing is playing the "deny deny deny" game. And then you say "No, I'm an expert and I run a self-help program in the basement of the local hospital on Tuesday nights.
haha, everyone does it: they talk up their job like it's big shit...give themselves a big-shot title and tell me I don't know what I'm tawkin' about, and I should just take their word for it. Whatever. OooOOo, on the Pearl Jam message board, I find myself arguing with the AUTHORITY on this subject. haha, please...
I have no reason to believe it is anything more than that. It's big talk, little product. I'm not going to sit here and brag about all of my knowledge about business because I'm just making points. The points should be true regardless of who says them.
That's how educated people converse.
-Enoch Powell
Whatever. I know what I'm talking about. I don't have statistics right next to me because I know and live the data so I don't have to constantly refer to it. If I feel like taking the time to dig up exact data, you'll be the first to know.
Thanks for being a big man and quoting my personal info though.
Also, "glorified self-help program"? Seriously? :rolleyes:
I think you chose that sn because I used "catch-22" in one of my posts. I'm honored
-Enoch Powell
What's 'pwned'? (I guess I'm not big on cyber-speak either.
Thanks for offering to delete the quote. That's nice of you. Guess it's too late now.
and what points are those? you've made no points. you claim to be some sort of business authority and this is just common sense business. but it isn't when your entire premise on the profitability and functioning is false. which is exactly what the other poster is arguing and you have not made a single true, fact-based point to rebut them. i'd love to see you try.
as to my being a retread, it isn't the case. this post is my proof. your entire tone, unerring conviction of your absolute correctness, and obsession with business models gives you away as a prep-school WASP. virginia eh? william and mary?
Whatever, yer the boss.
Now my manhood is measured by whether I do what you say or not...:rolleyes:
Shouldn't have put it up in the first place, mate.
-Enoch Powell
it's my favorite novel actually, mr minderbinder.
is el kabong the guy you think i am?
Whatever, DUDE.
I happen to know where she works and what she does.
Try to minimize it all you want.
Whatever.....
cyber-speak for 'owned.' i assume it was a typo at first, now it's some lame thing teens use to act like they've won. thought it would be right on corporatewhore's level
She wasn't trying to prove she was the authority on abortion. She was giving an actual reason on why her statements carry more weight than someone without her experience pulling assumptions out of their ass. By the way, why must she be the only one to provide links to articles to back up what she's saying? This whole time you've been trying to get us to believe that doctors perform abortions only for money and the only evidence you have given us is your deductive reasoning which, no offense or anything, isn't exactly the best thing to trust.
For the record, I'm not bragging. You said I don't know what I'm talking about and I said I do. Simple as that. I know about the things I was talking about & I don't speak with any kind of authority about the things I don't know about. Don't question people's knowledge if you don't want to know where it comes from.
Lollers, not anglo-saxon protestant thanks be to God.
Ooo, your powers of deduction are incredible!! You must be Kabonkers.
As for my business claims, alls ya gotsta do is read 'em smartypants. It's just dang ole' common sense that you can make more money when ya've got economies of scale and yer providing the most common surgical procedure in America.
-Enoch Powell
Haha, yeeepp don't trust yer rational mind. The surest path to socialism.
-Enoch Powell