Why Aren't Atheists Pacifists?

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  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    i'm kinda surprised that an atheist would believe in spiritual things.... i'm also kinda surprised that an atheist would agree that they might be wrong and don't have all the answers. i always get atheists who are merely convinced that there's absolutely as a matter of fact no God. would you consider yourself an agnostic rather than an atheist? and how do you rationalize that emotions are not merely chemicals in our bodies?
    No. Your question is fair and understandable. I am however, an atheist. I don't believe that a god exists and I am STRONGLY anti-organised religion. I merely accept that I might be wrong. that doesn't make me a fence-sitter does it? I'm just not so arrogant that I proclaim to KNOW the answer, even though I can never have proof.

    With regards to the emotions thing, why must such feelings be godly? why is it that all non-rational things have to be linked to religion? I don't believe in an existential, interventionist god. That doesn't mean that there can't be some higher energy.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8mqzhQtkBg
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    It's easy to toss out accusations when you belong to nothing except yourself. A common thread in all of liberalism. "I Am Mine" sounds good but when you cast off any traditional ties, that's when you really lose your identity.

    You're just an example of liberalism's suicide of western culture.

    Liberals purposely demonize western culture so they can uproot it. Somehow, Christianity is no longer righteous because a few "witches" were burned alive 500 years ago, "so why don't we just get rid of religion altogether!" is their obvious solution. That is why their beliefs are suicidal for a nation.

    Lighten up Francis...

    I'm not demonzing anything here, I just threw in a little comment about intolerance, and how everyone is guilty of it.

    Just because I don't belong to your one specific club means that I belong to nothing except myself?

    I have no interest in uprooting western culture or getting rid of religion altogether, but without a persecution complex I guess that would hurt a religions' fundraising and recruiting efforts.

    Different religions or lack of religions have nothing to do with the failure or success of a nation... if anything a variety of beliefs is the best thing for a nation. Look at the incredible advances our nation has made in it's short existence.

    I grew up in a religions family and have turned agnostic because of organized religions... I'm sure there is a higher power, but I have absolutely no idea what it is, and a book of stories written by people decades after Jesus died isn't going to do anymore to answer the questions than lying in the grass staring at the sky wondering if there is life anywhere out there.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    surferdude wrote:
    Are they lacking a moral compass? Or do they just believe in murder?

    perhaps it's 'cause they don't give a shit...it's not like they're going to Hell or anything...
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Ahnimus wrote:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8mqzhQtkBg

    After clicking that, have you checked out some of the links in the scroll area to the right....like the 4th vid down lol... :D
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Bottom line... for me... my relationship with God is personal. Yeah, I can tell you all about it, but I will not ask you to participate. You can find your own personal relationship with God (there's plenty of Him to go around). Whether you find that relationship within the confines or religion... or even in the absence of belief... it's up to you.
    As for me? Me and God are doing just fine.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • wolfamongwolves
    wolfamongwolves Posts: 2,414
    I'm going to try not to get involved in this, as I've been around this particular circuit on the Train more times than I can count.

    Just an observation really....

    CorporateWhore seems very confused and rather self-deluded.When you start criticising a whole set of people for a particular way of thinking or acting, and then proceed with that self-same way of thinking or acting yourself - well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that that instantly discredits your entire position.

    Anyway, I'll leave y'all to keep talking in circles...
    93: Slane
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Cosmo wrote:
    Me and God are doing just fine.

    correction:

    "God and me...."
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    If ignorance is a drug, people are addicted to it.

    They like the high..
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    After clicking that, have you checked out some of the links in the scroll area to the right....like the 4th vid down lol... :D

    Dude... that's not right!
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    gue_barium wrote:
    correction:

    "God and me...."

    Correction:

    "God and I..."

    "I am..." "God and I are..."

    Damned subjective pronouns!
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    blackredyellow wrote:
    Different religions or lack of religions have nothing to do with the failure or success of a nation... if anything a variety of beliefs is the best thing for a nation.

    That's not true at all. You think diversity automatically equals good. That's simply not the case though. Look at history...

    Japan. It's successful today not through heterogeneity. It has the same religion. It has mostly the same beliefs. It has the same ethnic group. It is a case in point that diversity does not necessarily make a country better. Show me a heterogenous country that isn't also experiencing or has experienced great social turmoil.

    Religion greatly impacts the success of a nation. One need only consider history. Northern European countries that were not run by the Catholic Church developed respect for democratic principles sooner than Southern European countries that were led by Rome. England split from the church and became protestant. What happened? It became democratic. What happened to Catholic France? It remained aristocratic until a groundbreaking revolution that injured it severely. I would argue France STILL does not have a legitimate democracy, but I digress...

    Northern European countries became democratic and Southern European countries remained monarchies for a long time. The reason? Religion. The Northern European countries were then able to conquer the world. That is success. Spain and Portugal faded in comparison to Britain.

    The point is: religion has massive implications for a society. Write it off at your peril.

    Our nation is based on Christianity. That faith leads the people morally. The vast majority of Americans consider themselves Christians and that's not going to change for awhile; therefore, you must reconcile yourself to the fact that law will reflect Christian moral teaching frequently.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • Rushlimbo
    Rushlimbo Posts: 832
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    If by "committing suicide for their religion" you mean saying "I'm a Christian" and then being burned alive by pagans, well yes. Martyrdom. Not blowing yourself up in a crowded restaurant.

    I haven't heard about Muslims doing that, but perhaps you can inform the debate on some level besides the vapid or anecdotal.

    Well, if they did it like YOU SAID so they WOULD BE KILLED then yes it is a suicide mission. Get your Jesus panties out of your ass.
    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    Rushlimbo wrote:
    Well, if they did it like YOU SAID so they WOULD BE KILLED then yes it is a suicide mission. Get your Jesus panties out of your ass.

    You don't commit suicide when someone independently kills you, genius.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    You don't commit suicide when someone independently kills you, genius.

    Funny! That's not what you were implying the other day to me on that other thread about guns. :rolleyes:
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    That's not true at all. You think diversity automatically equals good. That's simply not the case though. Look at history...

    Japan. It's successful today not through heterogeneity. It has the same religion. It has mostly the same beliefs. It has the same ethnic group. It is a case in point that diversity does not necessarily make a country better. Show me a heterogenous country that isn't also experiencing or has experienced great social turmoil.

    Religion greatly impacts the success of a nation. One need only consider history. Northern European countries that were not run by the Catholic Church developed respect for democratic principles sooner than Southern European countries that were led by Rome. England split from the church and became protestant. What happened? It became democratic. What happened to Catholic France? It remained aristocratic until a groundbreaking revolution that injured it severely. I would argue France STILL does not have a legitimate democracy, but I digress...

    Northern European countries became democratic and Southern European countries remained monarchies for a long time. The reason? Religion. The Northern European countries were then able to conquer the world. That is success. Spain and Portugal faded in comparison to Britain.

    The point is: religion has massive implications for a society. Write it off at your peril.

    Our nation is based on Christianity. That faith leads the people morally. The vast majority of Americans consider themselves Christians and that's not going to change for awhile; therefore, you must reconcile yourself to the fact that law will reflect Christian moral teaching frequently.

    Where do you get this doomsday crap? "Write if off at your peril"??? seriously?

    I'm not totally sure that I understand your examples/arguments because you give an example of Japan, who became successful because of it's homogenous society, but then you say southern Europe struggled because of it.

    Anyway, I know that the thought would never enter your brain, but do you think that "christian" morals are really any different than human, non-religious morals? Can you give me some examples of laws that reflect only christian morals and not morals that humans, or even advanced animals naturally have?

    I'm not sure your definition of "great social termoil", but has Canada experienced it? Australia? New Zealand?

    Sure, you can give a few examples of countries that have flourished under a dominant religion, but I can give you just as many examples of ones who have struggled (Mexico, many in Latin & South America, most of the middle east, etc). In my opinion religion isn't as important to the success of a country that you think.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • Rushlimbo
    Rushlimbo Posts: 832
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    You don't commit suicide when someone independently kills you, genius.

    It is suicide when you know your actions will result in someone killing you for that action and you have no desire to protect yourself. Suicide by cop is an example. Do you just play stupid or are you an example of what happens to people who read and listen to rightist propaganda? You seem to have read the bible -- you need to do more than just read it dumbass.
    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    No. Your question is fair and understandable. I am however, an atheist. I don't believe that a god exists and I am STRONGLY anti-organised religion. I merely accept that I might be wrong. that doesn't make me a fence-sitter does it? I'm just not so arrogant that I proclaim to KNOW the answer, even though I can never have proof.
    I can absolutely agree with this and this is what makes a lot more sense than anything else.... most atheist would argue that they are fully aware there is no god which doesn't make sense... especially coming from an atheist.
    With regards to the emotions thing, why must such feelings be godly? why is it that all non-rational things have to be linked to religion? I don't believe in an existential, interventionist god. That doesn't mean that there can't be some higher energy.
    i was asking how do you rationalize the idea that your emotions don't necessarily have to be the chemicals processed in our brains?
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    i was asking how do you rationalize the idea that your emotions don't necessarily have to be the chemicals processed in our brains?
    oh, don't get me wrong, I am aware that the sensations we experience as a result of certain emotions are in fact because of chemical processes but the stimuli for these processes can be totally irrational and arbitrary, and so are our reactions to them before the chemical stage. Since we, as functioning animals, work entirely by chemical processes of course our emotions will come under that as well but it doesn't mean that they are meaningless and entirely explainable by science.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    jeffbr wrote:
    Correction:

    "God and I..."

    "I am..." "God and I are..."

    Damned subjective pronouns!

    No. It is "God and me...." in the sentence that he used.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.

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