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Why Aren't Atheists Pacifists?

surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
edited July 2007 in A Moving Train
Are they lacking a moral compass? Or do they just believe in murder?
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • deadnothingbetterdeadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    surferdude wrote:
    Are they lacking a moral compass? Or do they just believe in murder?
    this is a pretty broad generalization... just a thread to spark debate.

    i know of some atheists who are nice as hell....

    ahnimus is nice...

    so is collin

    well, sometimes.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    If religion is a myth so is Atheism.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    this is a pretty broad generalization... just a thread to spark debate.

    i know of some atheists who are nice as hell....

    ahnimus is nice...

    so is collin

    well, sometimes.

    I'm a pushover.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    surferdude wrote:
    Are they lacking a moral compass? Or do they just believe in murder?

    i'm an atheist. i am also a pacifist. and no, i do not lack a moral compass.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    this is a pretty broad generalization... just a thread to spark debate.

    i know of some atheists who are nice as hell....

    ahnimus is nice...

    so is collin

    well, sometimes.
    It's a thread to try to show the ridiculousness of the Why Aren't Christians Pacifists thread.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • CorporateWhoreCorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    surferdude wrote:
    Are they lacking a moral compass? Or do they just believe in murder?

    Atheists rely on religious culture to instill their values in them. When you think about it, every atheist has been raised in a culture dominated by religion. Even in "atheist" China, to this day, the government works to suppress christianity. It isn't working.

    For an atheist to say he opposes belief in faith is like a pot to say it opposes water and clay.

    Christianity has built the moral structure in our society. The ten commandments have informed our laws for generations. Without them, what would be right? Anything could be right without a general guide for good.

    Atheists will tell you that "coercion" is immoral. If my life, my property, or my freedom is coerced, then an immoral act has occurred. But, this logic falters in serious moral decisions. Suppose, in order to save my child's life, I must die. What is right in that scenario? To an atheist, it would be unnecessary for me to die for my child as long as one of us lived.

    Essentially, atheists have no place for love in their moral teaching. They cannot know what love is because they cannot access true love: God.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • Rhinocerous SurpriseRhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    surferdude wrote:
    It's a thread to try to show the ridiculousness of the Why Aren't Christians Pacifists thread.

    Well, atheists don't really subscribe to any common ideal - there's no criteria for being an atheist. But Christians - and most other religions - have their own codes for acceptable behaviour, so I'd say the original question is a little more reasonable, in my opinion.
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • FunkdogFunkdog Posts: 85
    i'm athiest. I hold in high regards the value of human life. I feel that those who interfere with the progress of human evolution, like murderers, low-life petty thugs, rapists, etc., they should be put to death now. If that's murder, then yeah I'm for ending people who are causing human misery and wasting society's time. This life is too short to worry about there being a 'god' persay. I figure while we're here, why can't we all just live freely and experience all we'd like to and perserve happiness for all the future generations? I don't need a 'god' to tell me to be nice and respect life, I figured that out on my own. I just hope those who know there's a god feel the same way I do.
    "Trying is the first step towards failure" - H.J.S.

    "I have come here to chew bubble-gum, and kick ass! And I'm all out of bubble-gum!" R.P.
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    Funkdog wrote:
    i'm athiest. I hold in high regards the value of human life. I feel that those who interfere with the progress of human evolution, like murderers, low-life petty thugs, rapists, etc., they should be put to death now. If that's murder, then yeah I'm for ending people who are causing human misery and wasting society's time. This life is too short to worry about there being a 'god' persay. I figure while we're here, why can't we all just live freely and experience all we'd like to and perserve happiness for all the future generations? I don't need a 'god' to tell me to be nice and respect life, I figured that out on my own. I just hope those who know there's a god feel the same way I do.
    On the one hand you say you respect life while also saying some people should be put to death. I sense some inconsistency there.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    True love is make believe? ooo deep
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • FunkdogFunkdog Posts: 85
    surferdude wrote:
    On the one hand you say you respect life while also saying some people should be put to death. I sense some inconsistency there.

    It's too valuable to let those who do not value it to live on. Do you think murderers should be allowed to live? Do you feel people who do nothing with their life but cause misery to others should continue to populate the earth? If so, why?
    "Trying is the first step towards failure" - H.J.S.

    "I have come here to chew bubble-gum, and kick ass! And I'm all out of bubble-gum!" R.P.
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    Funkdog wrote:
    It's too valuable to let those who do not value it to live on. Do you think murderers should be allowed to live? Do you feel people who do nothing with their life but cause misery to others should continue to populate the earth? If so, why?
    Yes, they should be allowed to live but witha life sentence in prison.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Rhinocerous SurpriseRhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    Funkdog wrote:
    It's too valuable to let those who do not value it to live on. Do you think murderers should be allowed to live? Do you feel people who do nothing with their life but cause misery to others should continue to populate the earth? If so, why?

    Guy, I'm an atheist too, and I agree about the whole valuing life thing. But you say these people cause misery to others, when sentencing them to death is only going to cause the same misery to their loved ones. There's no winner in that situation - killing the murderer doesn't undo what's been done. You'd need pre-emptive arrests to achieve what you're striving for, but this ain't Minority Report.
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • vedderfan10vedderfan10 Posts: 2,497
    surferdude wrote:
    Are they lacking a moral compass? Or do they just believe in murder?

    Originally Posted by surferdude
    On the one hand you say you respect life while also saying some people should be put to death. I sense some inconsistency there.

    *****

    Are you asking or are you accusing? Morality and knowing the difference between right a wrong has NOTHING to do with any sort of religion. Read the Bible and tell me that it's not full of murder...or the belief that murder is the solution to problems (the great flood anyone? God says, "ooops! I screwed up! I'll kill everyone and then start over!")...bible stories are full of murder.

    To call an athiest a person who believes in murder is just plain insulting - and how dare you imply that I believe in murder! I don't believe that any wars were started by athiests, either...

    Being an athiest allows you to look at things a little more objectively. In my case, my mind is not "clouded" with religion when it comes to whether a person deserves the death penalty or not.

    ******
    Corporatewhore said this:
    Essentially, atheists have no place for love in their moral teaching. They cannot know what love is because they cannot access true love: God.

    Thanks for the good laugh! I'm gonna submit this somewhere as "joke of the day"...what a pile of crap.

    PS - I live a much more Christian lifestyle than most of my churchgoing friends, but other than mentioning it here, I don't go around shoving peoples' faces in it and acting like I have better morals and lah de freakin' dah!
    be philanthropic
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    Vedderfan10 wrote:
    To call an athiest a person who believes in murder is just plain insulting - and how dare you imply that I believe in murder!
    But you have admitted to believing in murder. I never judged you for that, only asked about the inconsistency of that belief and valuing life.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • LoveRock333LoveRock333 Posts: 59
    hey, I'm technically atheist, in that I have no god.

    But I'm a secular humanist, I have morals, I think the scientific method is the best way to find out stuff, and I have better morals than any Christian, Muslim and Scientologist put together.
    -Defender of the faithless-

    "Hallowed are the Ori"

    http://www.freewebs.com/alnkirk - it ain't shabby!
  • lucylespianlucylespian Posts: 2,403
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Atheists rely on religious culture to instill their values in them. When you think about it, every atheist has been raised in a culture dominated by religion. Even in "atheist" China, to this day, the government works to suppress christianity. It isn't working.

    For an atheist to say he opposes belief in faith is like a pot to say it opposes water and clay.

    Christianity has built the moral structure in our society. The ten commandments have informed our laws for generations. Without them, what would be right? Anything could be right without a general guide for good.

    Atheists will tell you that "coercion" is immoral. If my life, my property, or my freedom is coerced, then an immoral act has occurred. But, this logic falters in serious moral decisions. Suppose, in order to save my child's life, I must die. What is right in that scenario? To an atheist, it would be unnecessary for me to die for my child as long as one of us lived.

    Essentially, atheists have no place for love in their moral teaching. They cannot know what love is because they cannot access true love: God.


    Fuck you, theists have no place for love in their teaching, else they could not smile benevolently while they burn someone at the stake for their own good.

    BTW I am a pacifist, and I have a moral compass, but I will defend myself if attacked, as you just did !!
    Music is not a competetion.
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Atheists as a group don't subscribe to a doctrine that includes turning the other cheek or doing unto others as they'd have done unto themselves. Many atheists do live their lives that way, but I'd say they are freer not to than a Christian is, because Christ asks those who follow him to reach for a certain standard. If you claim to be a Christian, shouldn't you at least be TRYING to be a pacifist?
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • SongburstSongburst Posts: 1,195
    surferdude wrote:
    Are they lacking a moral compass? Or do they just believe in murder?

    How many murders have been carried out in the name of Athiesm? In the name of Christianity?

    I must have missed something that lead to this post.
    1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    When you think about it, every atheist has been raised in a culture dominated by religion.

    I can think of only a handful of cultures today that are dominated by religion. One is America, another is Iran. China isn't dominated by religion, neither is much of Western Europe, despite what the Vatican may like to believe. The majority of people in the world today couldn't give a toss about Christianity or Islam.
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Christianity has built the moral structure in our society. The ten commandments have informed our laws for generations.

    Christianity is a failure. It's also a lie. (Check out the film 'Zeitgeist'). It has been failed by the church. If, as you say, 'Christianity has built the moral structure in our society', then we have it to thank for both world wars, the fact that a child dies every second of disease and hunger, and the situation in the middle east, e.t.c., e.t.c.
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Atheists will tell you that "coercion" is immoral.

    Essentially, atheists have no place for love in their moral teaching. They cannot know what love is because they cannot access true love: God.

    Both of these statements are blatantly untrue and absurd. Your use of the word 'God' is utterly meaningless.
    Try reading Sartre's 'Existentialism is a Humanism', and Schopenhaur's 'On the Basis of Morality'.
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    Songburst wrote:
    How many murders have been carried out in the name of Athiesm?
    For a start how many people did the Russians kill in WWII?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    surferdude wrote:
    For a start how many people did the Russians kill in WWII?
    That was nationalism, not atheism.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    hippiemom wrote:
    That was nationalism, not atheism.
    So we can rule out every murder between countries or fought for control of land as being tied to Christianity? Great, that's the type of common sense attitude I was looking. I knew I could count on you for some common sense around here.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Rhinocerous SurpriseRhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    surferdude wrote:
    For a start how many people did the Russians kill in WWII?

    You really think that was in the name of atheism?
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    surferdude wrote:
    So we can rule out every murder between countries or fought for control of land as being tied to Christianity? Great, that's the type of common sense attitude I was looking. I knew I could count on you for some common sense around here.
    As long as people weren't riding around claiming this, that and the other piece of land "in the name of our lord," or shouting about driving out the "heathens," sure.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    hippiemom wrote:
    As long as people weren't riding around claiming this, that and the other piece of land "in the name of our lord," or shouting about driving out the "heathens," sure.
    Who cares what they were shouting when it was really about possession of land for their country. I can sell you Cavalier all the while calling it a BMW but it doesn't change the fact that it's a Cavlier.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Terrorism is the Neo-Cons wet dream

    oops was that out loud again?

    carry on.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • lucylespianlucylespian Posts: 2,403
    Hey, I'm confused here, normlally surferdude is a balanced laid back guy, and this morning has a hrd-on and a rage about some shit . WTF if going on?? Did you step in some athiest dog-shit or something ??
    Music is not a competetion.
  • surferdudesurferdude Posts: 2,057
    lucylespian wrote:
    Hey, I'm confused here, normlally surferdude is a balanced laid back guy, and this morning has a hrd-on and a rage about some shit . WTF if going on?? Did you step in some athiest dog-shit or something ??
    I took the bait that the trollong thread Why Aren't Christians Pacifists? That type of thread should piss of people of all beliefs, It's insulting. It stereotypes. It holds Christians to be something more than they are, which is human. It's a childish type of post that says "hey I'm not Christian and my shit don't stink". And I got sucked in by it.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    What of Buddhists...monks?

    How transparent is the line of practice what you preach?

    Do what you say you profess or be insane.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
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