but how could they have planted the explosives??
El_Kabong
Posts: 4,141
http://publish.indymedia.org/en/2004/04/852223.shtml
Exactly How and When Could the WTC Be Wired With Explosives? Answer...
Repost from Progressive Review 23 Apr 2004 17:00 GMT
Many researchers have concluded the World Trade Center was wired with explosives, causing the unprecedented collapse following the impacts of two jumbo jets. In fact, NYC firefighters remarked that day that it seemed like bombs were going off in the buildings, just prior to the tower's collapse. One glaring question remains unanswered: exactly how and when could such a monumental undertaking be accomplished. Read on for the answer...
Feedback from the Progressive Review's Undernews for April 22, 2004.
||| SEP 11
WE RECEIVED THE FOLLOWING from someone who worked for Fiduciary Trust on the 90th, 94-97th floors of the South Tower:
"On the weekend of 9/8,9/9 there was a 'power down' condition in WTC tower 2, the south tower. This power down condition meant there was no electrical supply for approx 36 hrs from floor 50 up. I am aware of this situation since I work in IT and had to work with many others that weekend to ensure that all systems were cleanly shutdown beforehand ... and then brought back up afterwards. The reason given by the WTC for the power down was that cabling in the tower was being upgraded ...
"Of course without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors and many, many 'engineers' coming in and out of the tower. I was at home on the morning of 9/11 on the shore of Jersey City, right opposite the Towers, and watching events unfold I was convinced immediately that something was happening related to the weekend work."
http://publish.indymedia.org/en/2004/04/852277.shtml
Pre-9/11 World Trade Center Power-Down
Victor Thorn 25 Apr 2004 20:17 GMT
Did the World Trade Center towers undergo a deliberate “power-down” on the weekend prior to the 9-11 terrorist attacks? According to Scott Forbes, a senior database administrator for Fiduciary Trust, Inc. – a high-net investment bank which was later acquired by Franklin Templeton – this is precisely what took place.
Did the World Trade Center towers undergo a deliberate “power-down” on the weekend prior to the 9-11 terrorist attacks? According to Scott Forbes, a senior database administrator for Fiduciary Trust, Inc. – a high-net investment bank which was later acquired by Franklin Templeton – this is precisely what took place. Forbes, who was hired by Fiduciary in 1999 and is now stationed at a U.K. branch office, was working on the weekend of September 8-9, 2001, and said that his company was given three weeks advance notice that New York’s Port Authority would take out power in the South Tower from the 48th floor up. The reason: the Port Authority was performing a cabling upgrade to increase the WTC’s computer bandwidth.
Forbes stated that Fiduciary Trust was one of the WTC’s first occupants after it was erected, and that a “power-down” had never been initiated prior to this occasion. He also stated that his company put forth a huge investment in time and resources to take down their computer systems due to the deliberate power outage. This process, Forbes recalled, began early Saturday morning (September 8th) and continued until mid-Sunday afternoon (September 9th) – approximately 30 hours. As a result of having its electricity cut, the WTC’s security cameras were rendered inoperative, as were its I.D. systems, and elevators to the upper floors.
Forbes did stress, though, that there was power to the WTC’s lower floors, and that there were plenty of engineers going in-and-out of the WTC who had free access throughout the building due to its security system being knocked out. In an e-mail to journalist John Kaminski, author of The Day America Died (Sisyphus Press) and America’s Autopsy Report (Dandelion Books), Forbes wrote: “Without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors, and many, many ‘engineers’ coming in and out of the tower.”
Forbes didn’t think much of these occurrences at the time, and said that he worked until Monday morning (September 10th) to get all the computer systems back online. Due to his IT-related duties on Saturday & Sunday, Forbes had Tuesday, September 11th off, and thus watched the World Trade Center towers collapse from his apartment. While doing so, he recalled, “I was convinced immediately that something was happening related to the weekend work.”
In addition, Forbes says there were other peculiarities revolving around this unreported event, including:
1) Fiduciary employees trapped between the 90-97th floors of the South Tower told family members (via cell-phone calls) that they were hearing “bomb-like explosions” throughout the towers.
2) Video cameras positioned atop the World Trade Center which were used to feed daily images to local television stations were inexplicably inoperative that morning.
3) A Fiduciary employee who was on one of the lower floors and escaped immediately after the first (North) tower was struck, reported that he was amazed by the large number of FBI agents that were already on the streets surrounding the WTC complex only minutes after the initial strike.
4) Last but not least, Ann Tatlock, CEO of Fiduciary Trust and now a board member of Franklin Templeton, had just arrived at a conference hosted by Warren Buffet at the Offutt Air Force Base (home of the U.S. Strategic Command Headquarters in Omaha, Nebraska) when the 9-11 attacks took place. Coincidentally, later that day President George W. Bush flew into this very same base on Air Force One for “security reasons.” Even more chilling are the Offutt AFB ties to the CIA’s MK ULTRA experiments, Project Monarch, the Franklin Cover-Up, and the diabolical practices of Michael Aquino. (Type any of these words into a search engine for more information.)
In the end, Forbes says that even though these disclosures could jeopardize his current employment, he has stepped forward because, “I have mailed this information to many people, including the 9/11 Commission, but no one seems to be registering these facts.”
Obviously there are many unanswered questions to this story, and we will keep you updated as more information arrives.
Exactly How and When Could the WTC Be Wired With Explosives? Answer...
Repost from Progressive Review 23 Apr 2004 17:00 GMT
Many researchers have concluded the World Trade Center was wired with explosives, causing the unprecedented collapse following the impacts of two jumbo jets. In fact, NYC firefighters remarked that day that it seemed like bombs were going off in the buildings, just prior to the tower's collapse. One glaring question remains unanswered: exactly how and when could such a monumental undertaking be accomplished. Read on for the answer...
Feedback from the Progressive Review's Undernews for April 22, 2004.
||| SEP 11
WE RECEIVED THE FOLLOWING from someone who worked for Fiduciary Trust on the 90th, 94-97th floors of the South Tower:
"On the weekend of 9/8,9/9 there was a 'power down' condition in WTC tower 2, the south tower. This power down condition meant there was no electrical supply for approx 36 hrs from floor 50 up. I am aware of this situation since I work in IT and had to work with many others that weekend to ensure that all systems were cleanly shutdown beforehand ... and then brought back up afterwards. The reason given by the WTC for the power down was that cabling in the tower was being upgraded ...
"Of course without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors and many, many 'engineers' coming in and out of the tower. I was at home on the morning of 9/11 on the shore of Jersey City, right opposite the Towers, and watching events unfold I was convinced immediately that something was happening related to the weekend work."
http://publish.indymedia.org/en/2004/04/852277.shtml
Pre-9/11 World Trade Center Power-Down
Victor Thorn 25 Apr 2004 20:17 GMT
Did the World Trade Center towers undergo a deliberate “power-down” on the weekend prior to the 9-11 terrorist attacks? According to Scott Forbes, a senior database administrator for Fiduciary Trust, Inc. – a high-net investment bank which was later acquired by Franklin Templeton – this is precisely what took place.
Did the World Trade Center towers undergo a deliberate “power-down” on the weekend prior to the 9-11 terrorist attacks? According to Scott Forbes, a senior database administrator for Fiduciary Trust, Inc. – a high-net investment bank which was later acquired by Franklin Templeton – this is precisely what took place. Forbes, who was hired by Fiduciary in 1999 and is now stationed at a U.K. branch office, was working on the weekend of September 8-9, 2001, and said that his company was given three weeks advance notice that New York’s Port Authority would take out power in the South Tower from the 48th floor up. The reason: the Port Authority was performing a cabling upgrade to increase the WTC’s computer bandwidth.
Forbes stated that Fiduciary Trust was one of the WTC’s first occupants after it was erected, and that a “power-down” had never been initiated prior to this occasion. He also stated that his company put forth a huge investment in time and resources to take down their computer systems due to the deliberate power outage. This process, Forbes recalled, began early Saturday morning (September 8th) and continued until mid-Sunday afternoon (September 9th) – approximately 30 hours. As a result of having its electricity cut, the WTC’s security cameras were rendered inoperative, as were its I.D. systems, and elevators to the upper floors.
Forbes did stress, though, that there was power to the WTC’s lower floors, and that there were plenty of engineers going in-and-out of the WTC who had free access throughout the building due to its security system being knocked out. In an e-mail to journalist John Kaminski, author of The Day America Died (Sisyphus Press) and America’s Autopsy Report (Dandelion Books), Forbes wrote: “Without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors, and many, many ‘engineers’ coming in and out of the tower.”
Forbes didn’t think much of these occurrences at the time, and said that he worked until Monday morning (September 10th) to get all the computer systems back online. Due to his IT-related duties on Saturday & Sunday, Forbes had Tuesday, September 11th off, and thus watched the World Trade Center towers collapse from his apartment. While doing so, he recalled, “I was convinced immediately that something was happening related to the weekend work.”
In addition, Forbes says there were other peculiarities revolving around this unreported event, including:
1) Fiduciary employees trapped between the 90-97th floors of the South Tower told family members (via cell-phone calls) that they were hearing “bomb-like explosions” throughout the towers.
2) Video cameras positioned atop the World Trade Center which were used to feed daily images to local television stations were inexplicably inoperative that morning.
3) A Fiduciary employee who was on one of the lower floors and escaped immediately after the first (North) tower was struck, reported that he was amazed by the large number of FBI agents that were already on the streets surrounding the WTC complex only minutes after the initial strike.
4) Last but not least, Ann Tatlock, CEO of Fiduciary Trust and now a board member of Franklin Templeton, had just arrived at a conference hosted by Warren Buffet at the Offutt Air Force Base (home of the U.S. Strategic Command Headquarters in Omaha, Nebraska) when the 9-11 attacks took place. Coincidentally, later that day President George W. Bush flew into this very same base on Air Force One for “security reasons.” Even more chilling are the Offutt AFB ties to the CIA’s MK ULTRA experiments, Project Monarch, the Franklin Cover-Up, and the diabolical practices of Michael Aquino. (Type any of these words into a search engine for more information.)
In the end, Forbes says that even though these disclosures could jeopardize his current employment, he has stepped forward because, “I have mailed this information to many people, including the 9/11 Commission, but no one seems to be registering these facts.”
Obviously there are many unanswered questions to this story, and we will keep you updated as more information arrives.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
There's always new information out there to be discussed about any issue be it Israel/Lebabnon, Global Warming, you name it....
Don't try to supress the sharing of information because you don't agree with the conclusion others have came to because of it. Express why you think they may be wrong about it.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Bush-Linked Company Handled Security for the WTC, Dulles and United
by Margie Burns
George W. Bush's brother was on the board of directors of a company providing electronic security for the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport and United Airlines, according to public records. The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp., also linked for years to the Bush family.
The security company, formerly named Securacom and now named Stratesec, is in Sterling, Va.. Its CEO, Barry McDaniel, said the company had a ``completion contract" to handle some of the security at the World Trade Center ``up to the day the buildings fell down."
It also had a three-year contract to maintain electronic security systems at Dulles Airport, according to a Dulles contracting official. Securacom/Stratesec also handled some security for United Airlines in the 1990s, according to McDaniel, but it had been completed before his arriving on the board in 1998.
McDaniel confirmed that the company has security contracts with the Department of Defense, including the U.S. Army, but did not detail the nature of the work, citing security concerns. It has an ongoing line with the General Services Administration - meaning that its bids for contracts are noncompetitive - and also did security work for the Los Alamos laboratory before 1998.
Marvin P. Bush, the president's youngest brother, was a director at Stratesec from 1993 to fiscal year 2000. But the White House has not publicly disclosed Bush connections in any of its responses to 9/11, nor has it mentioned that another Bush-linked business had done security work for the facilities attacked.
Marvin Bush joined Securacom when it was capitalized by the Kuwait-American Corporation, a private investment firm in D.C. that was the security company's major investor, sometimes holding a controlling interest. Marvin Bush has not responded to telephone calls and e-mails for comment.
KuwAm has been linked to the Bush family financially since the Gulf War. One of its principals and a member of the Kuwaiti royal family, Mishal Yousef Saud al Sabah, served on the board of Stratesec.
The managing director at KuwAm, Wirt D. Walker III, was also a principal at Stratesec, and Walker, Marvin Bush and al Sabah are listed in SEC filings as significant shareholders in both companies during that period.
Marvin Bush's last year on the board at Stratesec coincided with his first year on the board of HCC Insurance, formerly Houston Casualty Co., one of the insurance carriers for the WTC. He left the HCC board in November 2002.
But none of these connections has been looked at during the extensive investigations since 9/11. McDaniel says principals and other personnel at Stratesec have not been questioned or debriefed by the FBI or other investigators. Walker declined to answer the same question regarding KuwAm, referring to the public record.
Walker is also chairman and CEO of Aviation General, a Tulsa, Okla.-based aviation company with two subsidiaries. SEC filings also show al Sabah as a principal and shareholder in Aviation General, which was recently delisted by the Nasdaq. Stratesec was delisted by the American Stock Exchange in October 2002.
The suite in which Marvin Bush was annually re-elected, according to public records, is located in the Watergate in space leased to the Saudi government. The company now holds shareholder meetings in space leased by the Kuwaiti government there. The White House has not responded to various requests for comment.
Speaking of the Watergate, Riggs National Bank, where Saudi Princess Al-Faisal had her ``Saudi money trail" bank account, has as one of its executives Jonathan Bush, an uncle of the president. The public has not learned whether Riggs - which services 95 percent of Washington's foreign embassies - will be turning over records relating to Saudi finance.
Meanwhile, Bush has nominated William H. Donaldson to head the Securities and Exchange Commission. Donaldson, a longtime Bush family friend, was a Yale classmate of Jonathan Bush.
On the very day of the tragic space shuttle crash, the government appointed an independent investigative panel, and rightly so. Why didn't it do the same on Sept. 12, 2001?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Aren't you the one that floods the board with posts about the Israel/Lebanon conflict? I agree that there are too many threads about this particular topic, but you don't seem to be setting such a good example yourself.
Here's a sampling of the recent threads you've started.
Hezbollah was using UN post as 'shield'
Hezbollah launching rockets into Israel out of Kfar-Qana
IDF: Qana building fell hours after strike
Osama's Evil Spawn In Leb
Hezbollah equipped like the `Syrian or Iranian army'
Iran: We supplied Zelzal-2 to Hizbullah
Saudi religious leader blasts Hizbullah
Inside the new Hizbullah. (lengthy)
Olmert tells Europe to stop preaching to Israel
Reuters employee issues 'Zionist pig' death threat
Reuters admits altering Beirut photo
Israeli war deaths go largely unnoticed
Reuters admits to more image manipulation
Israelis phone targeted buildings before air strikes
Israeli PM Has Accepted Cease-Fire Deal!!!!
do as he says not as he does?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
This post just made me laugh. I also just can't understand how I missed the "Osama's Evil Spawn In Leb" thread, sounds like a classic.
As for the 9/11 Conspiracy theories. I'd like to know what CDI was doing there. I'm also still waiting to see another building implode perfectly. However, recently it has occurred to me that it is plausible to consider that the manner in which the towers fell was designed into the structure, due to where they were.
Say the towers would have stood for another 100 years? Ultimately, there comes a time when old buildings need to be replaced. In NYC, thic can be a HUGE problem because of the footprint that many skyscrapers have. It's not a very big island when you put it into that persoective. Every spare inch of space is covered by something in NYC. It is not out of the realm of possibility that the structures were designed to collapes in a predetermined fashion. The WTC was a marvel of modern architecture afterall. In the 70's, it was very much ahead of its time.
Just a thought...though based on what I have seen, it looked exactly...EXACTLY like a controlled demolition...and I've seen hundreds.
old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
or he could be better, not making the same mistakes his dad made. maybe he could use his power in a more positive way to beat the west.
If he were to do away with terrorism as part and parcel of his method of operation. I personally happen to believe that he will instead improve upon his father's shortcomings, and take terror to the next level. That is pretty damned frightening.
old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
ok guys, so about the explosives in the wtc's...?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Entirely possible.
It would also explain why the material was sent to the far east to be melted down. That was a crime scene. Explosives would have left a residue that is easilly tested for. There are refineries as close as Pittsburgh that could have melted down the WTC steel. Why put it on a boat and send it half way around the world?
I understand the need to clean it up as quickly as possible after the recovery efforts, but it was still a crime scene. Sadly, someone wanted that evidence destroyed before it could be analized.
old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
Edit: Not "left-wing," but "America hating." Well, maybe Freedom hating. I can't choose.
secretive, shady, corrupt, unconstitutional, UGLY,... only a few words of a brazillian to describe these people. but i guarantee they aren't inept. these fuckers are intelligent and really dirty. or at least someone is, not the puppets,...
and thanks for the link kabong.
~Ron Burgundy
Unfortunately the evidence does appear to show explosives were used in the WTC sites. The NIST report stated that sulfur attacked the steel in a solid-state difusion. While the steel in non-failure points was about 0.02 mg/something meeting specifications and of course Underwriter Laboratories confirmed the steel met specifications for sulfur content.
I think that's the biggest smoking gun. We can find a lot of different ways bombs were planted and so on. But this metallurgic analysis of the WTC steel, reported on by the National Institute for Standards and Technology (NIST) says it all. The facts are there, but if you only read the first few pages of the lengthy report, they imply that planes alone brought the buildings down, when that's not what their analysis implies at all.
For anyone who cares what happened on 9-11 read the official reports they speak 100,000 words, literally, maybe more.
I'm sure if you try really hard you can troll for articles too!
a troll is a person who posts inflammatory messages on the internet, such as on online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants
A Moving Train - politics, current events - reasoned debate and discussion - WE CAN ALL LEARN SOMETHING NEW.
what was unreasonable about kabong's message?
~Ron Burgundy
Nothing. I come on here every once in a while (moreso in the last week because the debates have been funny) and I see the same folks posting multiple articles a day from these obscure websites. I think it is a little pathetic, that's all. Cut and paste, cut and paste, cut and paste. All this cut and paste and still no solid proof that there was a conspiracy.
b/c you're dramatically oversimplifying it by saying 'the government' it is not 'the government' it is elements within it.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Once again, why do you wish to supress opinions? If you have differing ones then fine, please share them. But please drop this contempt of those who only wish to share info they've come across with other people on here. Nothing is ever going to be solid proof of anything unless you have a video showing people doing this. What is solid proof about the official story? NOT A DAMN THING. Is everything you post solid proof of anything? NOPE. What point are you trying to make about it being 'obscure'? Maybe it wouldn't be so obscure if it wasn't being supressed in the first damn place! Many times people have time to read articles but how many of us have time to write articles unless it's our job? All we are doing is sharing written pieces about the issues we discuss here from other people who have more time to research these things and in many cases, be able to express themselves a little better than we can in written form. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH SHARING OPINIONS AND INFO. Don't be so closeminded to the another way of looking at things apart from you're already set way thinking (challenge your own thoughts/stances or they aren't worth having in the first place). You don't have to change your mind but at least read and let it be read without all this negativeness and contempt.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
How was I suppressing information? Give me a break. There was not one part of what I've said in either posts you are referring to that I want to suppress information. I just think it is pathetic that a couple folks on here feel the need to cut and paste articles every chance they get. What in that means I want to suppress information.
Since you posted the same thing about me in the thread about the Anti-Israel protests at the White House, again, I never mentioned that information should be suppressed. There is information everyday that is not newsworthy enough to be shown on the news, and that is what I feel about that protest. I never said anything about suppressing information. You've obviously heard about it, so nothing has been suppressed anyway.
you guys really need to work on articulting your points better...just saying you disagree doesn't do anything. imagine the presidential debates:
<long discourse on why globalization is bad>
the reply
nuh-uh!
<long discourse on the positives of socialized health care
the reply
nope, he's wrong!
see how that does nothing to explain WHY they disagree??
so, what exactly are you saying here? i post lots of things from sources like the AP, Washington Post...are those obsucre, too? are you saying if it doesn't come from a corporate/military-industrial complex owned news source it shouldn't be heard? ppl had been writing articles for decades linking cigarettes w/ cancer but it would never get published b/c the corporate owners were too worried about the advertising revenue...are you saying marvin bush DIDN'T work for the security company that handled security at the wtc, dulles and for delta? are you saying the power wasn't cut in the wtc buildings 9/8-9?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
You don't want people to copy and paste info..it's 'pathethic', as I recall you saying. Maybe you need to look the definition of 'supression'. You can't supress the information shared here but you wish it to be supressed and you discourage it. What do you want to hide? If you don't like reading the other side to things then scroll on down or don't click on it in the first place (a novel idea, eh) That way you'll never have to be confronted with these obscure, differing ways of thinking. Who is forcing you to read them anyway? Just because I've heard it doesn't mean everyone knows where to find it....thus the thank you's for posting this. Nothing wrong with making it more simple for them to find. You, yourself said it was obscure...we are here to make it less obscure for those interested. Why do you care who is passing along info that they have came across? Sometimes I post stuff that another friend has shared with me....see how that works? It's like me having a newspaper that I've already read and you wanting one....why not give it to you instead of throwing it away? You could easily go get your own paper but wouldn't it be more simple for me to hand you mine?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
It's a political/current events forum, as well. You forgot to mention that part. You post your side of things and things that clarify your own viewpoints. Don't expect me to do it for you. It's silly to think someone is going to find and post articles from both sides of every issue...and I think you know that.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
THAT is interesting...and again, and important piece of info. See, most people don't know the chemical composition of a Hostess Twinkie, much less the details of sulfur content in a metallurgical evaluation. Sulfur is indeed a smoking gun, and would not be a bi-product of burning jet fuel, as the sulfur content in aviation fuels is limited to 0.3%, max. Sulfur is removed from jet fuel via hydro-processing at refineries.
It is a known bi-product of C4, however.
old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
Of course not on every issue. But if your end goal was to get at truth, you would think that at least once in a while you would post an article that goes against what you were hoping would be truth. My point is that the articles posted are only the ones that support the 'truth' the poster wants be 'truth.'
And tell me this, how does Ed turn "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away" into a political song about 'truth?' Get a grip.
My point was always that I thought it was pathetic that a few folks on here (on both sides) spend so much time posting these articles. I would say get a life. Never said cutting and pasting was wrong.