what year will liberals stop being afraid of conservatives???

my2hands

El_Kabong wrote:

what year will the basement not be on fire??

i wish i knew bro... i hope it goes out soon... but 1 thing is for sure, nader isnt holding the hose

my2hands

Why did you vote for Kerry in 2004 and not Nader?

If Ralph Nader is the greatest thing since sliced bread and all of the Democrats are evil then why didn't you vote for him in 2004?

audome25

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

Anyone who thinks Democrats raise the taxes on the poor and middle class are wrong.

nope, they just raise them on rich guys like me. the ones who were too white and middle class for any governemnt student loans, but now i am apparenlty more than capable to pay for somene else while i pay mine 4 fold.

audome25

_outlaw wrote:

I don't understand how we can say Obama isn't a warmonger. just because he doesn't go around DECLARING war, does not mean that he doesn't SUPPORT other wars.... the US, as the only superpower in the world, should not be supporting Israel in its occupation of Palestine.

Not only that, but the fact that he called for tougher sanctions against Iran is pure insanity. Sanctions are an act of war.

his speech at AIPAC really did it for me. I don't know how I could possibly vote for someone like Obama, then go back to my family and friends living in Gaza like it's no big deal that I just supported someone who will make their next 4-8 years more hell.

no comment on this one huh? does mcsame sound cooler so we'll overlook barak o'herewegoagain?

writersu

audome25 wrote:

no comment on this one huh? does mcsame sound cooler so we'll overlook barak o'herewegoagain?

you are like that guy in SNL skits that use to make up names for the people he worked with. Only you are doing it for candidates. So funny. I personally think the best bumper sticker for me would read, "Obama? YOUR MOMMA!"

Abookamongstthemany

my2hands wrote:

Why did you vote for Kerry in 2004 and not Nader?

If Ralph Nader is the greatest thing since sliced bread and all of the Democrats are evil then why didn't you vote for him in 2004?

Speaking as another Kerry voter, it's called a mistake and learning from it that I was going in the opposite direction of the things that I care about. I was doing it out of fear and the fact that everyone else said how impossible it was to change things. Then I looked deeper, at myself, at what I believe in and how to change the things as see as wrong....and realized it ain't by voting for people that cause those very problems...and felt pretty silly to have not seen it sooner.

callen

El_Kabong wrote:

seriously, i keep hearing the same shit i did on '04 about how we have to vote for whoever the democrat is b/c we just can't afford to have whoever the conservative is win (tho in '04 they all said we would be free to vote for whomever we wanted in '08). so, why do you think you won't be so scared in 2012 of the conservative nominee??

yea lets vote for Nadar that has 0% chance of becomming president..then we get McCain.

Obama's intelligent, young, modern and understands the program.

fuck

callen wrote:

yea lets vote for Nadar that has 0% chance of becomming president..then we get McCain.

Pathetic argument. The only reason people like Nader have 0% chance of winning is because people like you don't have the courage enough to stand up to the system. You just have fear, that perhaps voting for someone else might force McCain to win the election... hence the title of this thread, if anyone even read it before clicking it.

Obama's intelligent, young, modern and understands the program.

Dick Cheney is intelligent, does that mean he's a good politician?
I'm young, will I make a good politician?
Modern and "understands the program" are just two ridiculous points. If you think Obama deserves to be president of the only superpower in the world, you have to have better reasons than those. Why should I completely disregard his absolutely shitty policies in favor of him being "intelligent, young, modern, and understand[ing] the program"????

fuck

my2hands wrote:

Why did you vote for Kerry in 2004 and not Nader?

If Ralph Nader is the greatest thing since sliced bread and all of the Democrats are evil then why didn't you vote for him in 2004?

Voting for Kerry back then and voting for Obama now are completely two different times... at that moment, I was completely freaked out about the invasion of Iraq and the misuse of the justice system both inside America itself, and internationally, by the US. I felt as if we had to have a new administration in, and voting in Bush again would have just been terrible (as you can now see the outcome... I'm still in disbelief over how America was actually COMPLETELY IDIOTIC ENOUGH to vote Bush back in)... It's like Eddie's quote about the basement being on fire...

Had Kerry won, I would not have voted for him in 2008. I was not planning on doing so, I was hoping we'd either get a better Democrat or I'd vote for Nader. Plain and simple. Now that Bush's two terms are finished, it's time to get an ENTIRELY new administration in that will ACTUALLY do some REAL change... not like Obama's repackaged Bush plan...

callen

_outlaw wrote:

Pathetic argument. The only reason people like Nader have 0% chance of winning is because people like you don't have the courage enough to stand up to the system.

Not pathetic just being realistic. Like it or not there aren't enough Americans that are in tune with events to make the switch to Nader. If we had every American that in anyway thought about Nader and then voted for him, he still wouldnt win. I'm concerned about NOW...not in 8 years. Do we need a third party..sure but its not going to happen in 2008.

_outlaw wrote:

Dick Cheney is intelligent, does that mean he's a good politician?
I'm young, will I make a good politician?
Modern and "understands the program" are just two ridiculous points. If you think Obama deserves to be president of the only superpower in the world, you have to have better reasons than those. Why should I completely disregard his absolutely shitty policies in favor of him being "intelligent, young, modern, and understand[ing] the program"????

Add to Obama being young & intelligent & a minortity most of his policies and positions match mine...so he's not a compromise.....he adds value..and maybe under Obama, we'll have a climate thats more conducive to having a third party.

callen

_outlaw wrote:

Voting for Kerry back then and voting for Obama now are completely two different times... at that moment, I was completely freaked out about the invasion of Iraq and the misuse of the justice system both inside America itself, and internationally, by the US. I felt as if we had to have a new administration in, and voting in Bush again would have just been terrible (as you can now see the outcome... I'm still in disbelief over how America was actually COMPLETELY IDIOTIC ENOUGH to vote Bush back in)... It's like Eddie's quote about the basement being on fire...

Had Kerry won, I would not have voted for him in 2008. I was not planning on doing so, I was hoping we'd either get a better Democrat or I'd vote for Nader. Plain and simple. Now that Bush's two terms are finished, it's time to get an ENTIRELY new administration in that will ACTUALLY do some REAL change... not like Obama's repackaged Bush plan...

so ya compromised here no????

Abookamongstthemany

callen wrote:

Not pathetic just being realistic. Like it or not there aren't enough Americans that are in tune with events to make the switch to Nader. If we had every American that in anyway thought about Nader and then voted for him, he still wouldnt win. I'm concerned about NOW...not in 8 years. Do we need a third party..sure but its not going to happen in 2008.

How is it ever going to happen if we keep encouraging shortsightedness every 4 years?

callen wrote:

Add to Obama being young & intelligent & a minortity most of his policies and positions match mine...so he's not a compromise.....he adds value..and maybe under Obama, we'll have a climate thats more conducive to having a third party.

So you are against single payer? for expanded military and increased budget for it? for the Patriot Act and FISA? for the use of Blackwater? think No Child Left Behind was a good plan but simply not carried through properly by the Dept of Ed? Think Iran is a grave threat to our security?

cincybearcat

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

How is it ever going to happen if we keep encouraging shortsightedness every 4 years?




So you are against single payer? for expanded military and increased budget for it? for the Patriot Act and FISA? for the use of Blackwater? think No Child Left Behind was a good plan but simply not carried through properly by the Dept of Ed? Think Iran is a grave threat to our security?

Sounds pretty good...not all of it, but the majority.

callen

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

So you are against single payer? for expanded military and increased budget for it? for the Patriot Act and FISA? for the use of Blackwater? think No Child Left Behind was a good plan but simply not carried through properly by the Dept of Ed? Think Iran is a grave threat to our security?

Unfortunately in politics one must do and say things in order to be viable for the masses. It sucks royally but it is what it is. Yes I'm very concerned with Obama's voting of late but you have to consider what the republican machine would do if Obama didn't vote for Patriot Act, approve $$'s for "war effort". They'd have a freakin field day. I know Obama was against this crappy war from the start. What I also know is my impressions of a man when I listen to unscripted interviews and questions I feel more comfortable with Obama then I have with any nominee in last 20 years. So I may be compromising.....and selling myself short..and you've made some really good points, just still think at this time this is our best choice.

Peace

slightofjeff

callen wrote:

Obama's intelligent, young, modern and understands the program.

I'm not so sure he "understands the program." But, hey, at least he's young and modern.

slightofjeff

cincybearcat wrote:

Sounds pretty good...not all of it, but the majority.

Yeah, I'm starting to like this Obama character more and more each day

Abookamongstthemany

slightofjeff wrote:

Yeah, I'm starting to like this Obama character more and more each day

All of you republicans seem to be, I've noticed...it's almost as if republicans and democrats have the same basic agenda :gasp: :eek:


I wonder who has been saying this all along?

Its Evolution Baby

What's wrong with No Child Left Behind besides the fact that Bush didn't fulfill what was in the plan.

Here is Obama's reform from his site:
Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama believes teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them.

What is the problem there???

slightofjeff

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

All of you republicans seem to be, I've noticed...it's almost as if republicans and democrats have the same basic agenda :gasp: :eek:


I wonder who has been saying this all along?

Well, to be fair, I don't think Obama believes any of the "Republican friendly" stuff he's been saying. His record in Congress and the Illinois state senate don't support it. He's saying what he's saying in order to make "the most liberal member of the senate" seem more palatable to middle America. Otherwise, he can't win.

Once in office, he won't follow through on any of this. So while I tend to like some of the words that are coming out of his mouth since the primaries, I am seriously skeptical as to whether they'd ever be backed up in action.

He's not a Republican. He's just a panderer.

Its Evolution Baby

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

All of you republicans seem to be, I've noticed...it's almost as if republicans and democrats have the same basic agenda :gasp: :eek:


I wonder who has been saying this all along?

Rage Against the Machine

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1JSBhI_0at0