what year will liberals stop being afraid of conservatives???

135

Comments

  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Fair enough, but punching a card once every four years won't change anything. I think clued-up people like yourself can better effect change through other means.

    Have you heard of the Una-bomber? :joke: :)
    hahaha
  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    _outlaw wrote:
    McCain closer to your set of beliefs? Care to elaborate?

    McCain is probably too liberal for me in certain areas. I would prefer a candidate with more bona fide conservative credentials.

    Next to Barry "Most Liberal member of Senate" Obama, however, McCain looks like Rush freakin' Limbaugh.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • I worry about what they are teaching your son in civics class. Must have stopped before the 16th Amendment:

    "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

    The term "income" was never meant to apply to personal wages.
    Wages are NOT Income (at least, not in the sense of the 16th ammendment).

    Wages are an EVEN EXCHANGE of LABOR for COMPENSATION.

    The supreme court established LONG ago that man has a RIGHT to work.

    The government can NOT tax a right, only a privelage.

    Man has the PRIVELAGE to work
    a. for government
    b. in an INCORPORATED form

    These two forms of work CAN, and were intended to be, taxed.
    Meaning, the Government was granting itself the right to tax itself, and the
    right to tax CORPORATE INCOME.

    "The individual, unlike the corporation, cannot be taxed for the mere privilege of existing. The corporation is an artificial entity which owes its existence and charter powers to the state; but the individuals' Right to live and own property are natural rights for the enjoyment of which an excise cannot be imposed." Corn v. Fort, 95 S.W.2d 620 (1936) -originalintent.org

    The 16th amendment was meant to make clear that the government did not need to APPORTION said tax.

    It was not intended to define some broad new power of government.
    it was meant to CLARIFY an EXISTING power.

    Read the Congressional Record of Taft's Speech to Congress, while introducing the proposed amendment. READ IT!
    WHAT DOES HE SAY?
    TAX GOVERNMENT
    TAX CORPORATIONS
    [and then, DEVIOUSLY, he implies that hopefuly in the future courts will MISINTERPRET the RULING to allow "NEW SOURCES OF INCOME" ... pfft. motherfucker.]

    Furthermore, and more deviously still further,
    the bastards that crafted the tax code in the Uniform Code did NOT hold the individual US citizen LIABLE for such a tax, since to do so would be unconstitutional. SHOW ME THE LAW !! !! !!

    Theft By Deception: Deciphering The Federal Income Tax

    The Truth Behind The Income Tax

    I believe those two videos to be on the whole, almost entirely accurate.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    The term "income" was never meant to apply to personal wages.
    Wages are NOT Income (at least, not in the sense of the 16th ammendment).

    Wages are an EVEN EXCHANGE of LABOR for COMPENSATION.

    The supreme court established LONG ago that man has a RIGHT to work.

    The government can NOT tax a right, only a privelage.

    Man has the PRIVELAGE to work
    a. for government
    b. in an INCORPORATED form

    These two forms of work CAN, and were intended to be, taxed.
    Meaning, the Government was granting itself the right to tax itself, and the
    right to tax CORPORATE INCOME.

    "The individual, unlike the corporation, cannot be taxed for the mere privilege of existing. The corporation is an artificial entity which owes its existence and charter powers to the state; but the individuals' Right to live and own property are natural rights for the enjoyment of which an excise cannot be imposed." Corn v. Fort, 95 S.W.2d 620 (1936) -originalintent.org

    The 16th amendment was meant to make clear that the government did not need to APPORTION said tax.

    It was not intended to define some broad new power of government.
    it was meant to CLARIFY an EXISTING power.

    Furthermore, and more deviously still further,
    the bastards that crafted the tax code in the Uniform Code did NOT hold the individual US citizen LIABLE for such a tax, since to do so would be unconstitutional. SHOW ME THE LAW !! !! !!

    Theft By Deception: Deciphering The Federal Income Tax

    The Truth Behind The Income Tax

    I believe those two videos to be on the whole, almost entirely accurate.

    We should all stop paying our income taxes, see where that gets us.

    *cough* prison *cough*

    Best we can hope for, it's not one of those pound-me-up-the-ass prisons ... you know, unless you're into that.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • We should all stop paying our income taxes, see where that gets us.

    *cough* prison *cough*

    Best we can hope for, it's not one of those pound-me-up-the-ass prisons ... you know, unless you're into that.

    i didn't say ANYTHING about illegal enforcement.
    all i said was that there is NO LAW holding you liable.
    That doesn't mean they WON'T hold you liable anyhow,
    just that the only thing behind that enforcement is FORCE.

    To state that there IS NO LAW holding you liable to pay personal income tax as a US citizen, working for a private enterprise within the 50 states is 100% accurate.

    And NO ONE has been able to successfuly challenge that assertion.
    NO ONE.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Hmm busted economy, warmongering, elitism, powermad, liars and murderers...

    what's to be scared of?

    ????? our entire fucking system is busted! and helping keep the 2 party dictatorship in power isn't going to change any of those things. obama lies repeatedly about laws and bills he passed, ties to lobbyists, ties to other questionable ppl, gives more hawkish answers about iraq on conservative radio shows (like saying part of the reason he was against the war was b/c we didn't finish the war in afghanistan yet tells more liberally minded ppl it was a 'stupid war')....


    so go vote for nader, write in the fucking easter bunny for all I fucking care.

    show us the definition of bravery!

    well, i doubt the definition of bravery is voting for someone b/c they aren't the other guy of the 2 allowable parties to vote for. and i'm pretty sure it's not voting for things like the patriot act, FISA abuses, Terrorist Surveillance Act and other shit i don't agree w/

    so go ahead, stupid corporate whore, vote based on fear of what the guy w/ an -R next to his name will do or will put on the supreme court, but plz don't act like it has fuckall to do w/ bravery, it is based out of nothing but fear. you don't say 'i'm voting for obama b/c i like.....' instead you say 'ah, gee, he will pick better supreme court justices than mccain'

    "I'm not counting on real change. Perhaps we can repair our reputation in the world, rebalance the supreme court, and MAYBE restore a little bit of the constitution."

    now, that's a ringing fucking endorsement! i don't expect real change but i will vote anyway! YOU might as well vote for the easter bunny, then!

    you don't even believe that shit you said other than the supreme court justices. he sure as fuck won't repair the constitution being a supporter of the patriot act and the FISA abuses and terrorist surveillance act or whatever it was. and he definitely won't repair our reputation around the world following foreign policies like reagan and bush I like he said, supporting israel in it's occupation and murder of many innocents, keeping the occupation in iraq going thru his presidency....

    laughable. and what's even more laughable is how you and others try to act so righteous just b/c i and others aren't so easily willing to cast aside our beliefs and ideals....but hey, whatever

    my2hands wrote:
    good one

    now if this had been me or abook there'd be some comment about a tag team or something, but i guess integrity has never been a strong suit of some...

    but hey, my2hands, if voting for someone just b/c they are "good looking, charasmatic, and a hell of a speaker that has admitted to smoking pot" is what does it for ya....

    :rolleyes:

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?p=5635719#post5635719
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    Fair enough, but punching a card once every four years won't change anything. I think clued-up people like yourself can better effect change through other means.

    Have you heard of the Una-bomber? :joke: :)


    I never claimed that voting was the only thing one should do....however your vote should be consistent with what you believe in. What good are your ideals and principles if you vote for people who do the exact opposite of what you view as right? It makes absolutely NO sense and it's not getting us anywhere but deeper in this mess.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    El_Kabong wrote:
    now if this had been me or abook there'd be some comment about a tag team or something, but i guess integrity has never been a strong suit of some...


    ok, that is the 3rd or 4th time you have called into question my character, integrity, or called me a hypocrite, so i am going to give you some advice good friend.

    you dont know me, so chill with the assumptions and personal attacks. we have only spoken here yet you act as if you know me? also, would you tlak to me or anyone else like that in the street? probably not, i assume you were raised well, so act like it.

    do i really have to go through the entire scenario as to why i am supporting Obama in this election? give you every detail of the process as it unfolded? give you every thought i have had along the way, pro and con? explain every detail of how i became more aware and interested in barack obama? explain the impact of Kucinch endorsing Obama only days before i voted before he bowed out? act as if everything in politic's or the MT has to pass the El Kabong/abook progressive litmus test?

    you are acting like a friggin martyr because you're voting for nader and the former democrat gonzalez... whoopdeefuckingdoo
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    I never claimed that voting was the only thing one should do....however your vote should be consistent with what you believe in. What good are your ideals and principles if you vote for people who do the exact opposite of what you view as right? It makes absolutely NO sense and it's not getting us anywhere but deeper in this mess.

    and throwing your vote away on a candidate that has ZERO intention of winning changes the mess how?
  • my2hands wrote:
    and throwing your vote away on a candidate that has ZERO intention of winning changes the mess how?
    Would you suggest she votes for someone she thinks will just carry on the mess?
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • Urban HikerUrban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    my2hands wrote:
    and throwing your vote away on a candidate that has ZERO intention of winning changes the mess how?


    Voting for a candidate who will continue the mess changes the mess how?


    A lot of us are doing much more than checking a box this coming November - Working to change things from the bottom all the way to the top, all at once. We're multi-taskers! :D
    Walking can be a real trip
    ***********************
    "We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
    ***********************
    Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    my2hands wrote:
    and throwing your vote away on a candidate that has ZERO intention of winning changes the mess how?
    the whole point is that you're not the only one doing it.
    if all the people who actually like Nader more than Obama were to actually vote for him, then it would definitely 'change the mess'....... and I understand that's not a reality at this point, but you have to start somewhere.... what do we succeed by giving in to voting for the lesser of 2 evils as opposed to voting for who we truly believe in? all we are doing is adding to the huge problem this country is facing...
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Would you suggest she votes for someone she thinks will just carry on the mess?


    i didnt suggest she do anything... people vote for who they want... i am not runnign around trying to tell 150 million people how to vote. sorry, dont have the time
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    Voting for a candidate who will continue the mess changes the mess how?
    Exactly! most people say obama is going to 'change the game'.... how can you CHANGE the game if you're fucking PLAYING it?!
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    _outlaw wrote:
    the whole point is that you're not the only one doing it.
    if all the people who actually like Nader more than Obama were to actually vote for him, then it would definitely 'change the mess'...


    "if" my aunt had balls should would be my uncle
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    A lot of us are doing much more than checking a box this coming November - Working to change things from the bottom all the way to the top, all at once. We're multi-taskers! :D


    thats the exact problem with Nader... he has no interest in "bottom up" which is why he abandons the 3rd parties after every election, until the next one 4 years later

    Nader has been trying to do it "top down" like he is some fucking messiah... yet he still hasnt cracked 5% of the vote


    no thanks
  • Urban HikerUrban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    my2hands wrote:
    thats the exact problem with Nader... he has no interest in "bottom up" which is why he abandons the 3rd parties after every election, until the next one 4 years later

    Nader has been trying to do it "top down" like he is some fucking messiah... yet he still hasnt cracked 5% of the vote


    no thanks

    He may be running for the top, but he is a part of organizing and garnering strength for the bottom.

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5649454&postcount=18
    Walking can be a real trip
    ***********************
    "We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
    ***********************
    Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    my2hands wrote:
    "if" my aunt had balls should would be my uncle
    way to ignore the rest of the post :rolleyes:
  • writersuwritersu Posts: 1,867
    my2hands wrote:
    "if" my aunt had balls should would be my uncle


    I want to be a gutzy girl but not a manly woman. There are those, not many but there are ............
    Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......


    Together we will float like angels.........

    In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
  • writersuwritersu Posts: 1,867
    I worry about what they are teaching your son in civics class. Must have stopped before the 16th Amendment:

    "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."


    See, I am old enough to think that anything he learns in school is true. Or accurately told to me. But he also said that a kid he works with doesn't have taxes taken out under the same idea. Idk........
    Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......


    Together we will float like angels.........

    In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
  • writersuwritersu Posts: 1,867
    _outlaw wrote:
    Although I don't like Obama, why the fuck would you be happy about McCain?


    You know, I don't know, but I just want someone, I don't care if they are Republican or Democrat truly, to make statements, take stands, and not waiver when someone questions them about it.
    I don't know as much as some of the people here know about politics certainly, but that is the one thing I admire about President Bush. He knows he is not popular in terms of the masses but he is doing what he feels is right. Like a parent, live by your gut instincts. I know someone will say that he is a fool, I don't care, hell it's no big deal to me to agree to disagree but I just want someone I can trust that they are living by their values and not their popularity.
    Still, though I wouldn't want a radical prolifer in office either. Don't know what McCain feels about that---abortion.

    I know I should care, but I am so tired that I just haven't followed in detail a whole lot of these people. I tend to judge them by face value. and sorry, I never trusted Hillary. I think I would have thought a lot differently if she would have given Bill the boot.
    Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......


    Together we will float like angels.........

    In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
  • El_Kabong wrote:
    ????? our entire fucking system is busted! and helping keep the 2 party dictatorship in power isn't going to change any of those things. obama lies repeatedly about laws and bills he passed, ties to lobbyists, ties to other questionable ppl, gives more hawkish answers about iraq on conservative radio shows (like saying part of the reason he was against the war was b/c we didn't finish the war in afghanistan yet tells more liberally minded ppl it was a 'stupid war')....
    well, i doubt the definition of bravery is voting for someone b/c they aren't the other guy of the 2 allowable parties to vote for. and i'm pretty sure it's not voting for things like the patriot act and other shit i don't agree w/
    so go ahead, stupid corporate whore, vote based on fear of what the guy w/ an -R next to his name will do or will put on the supreme court, but plz don't act like it has fuckall to do w/ bravery, it is based out of nothing but fear. you don't say 'i'm voting for obama b/c i like.....' instead you say 'ah, gee, he will pick better supreme court justices than mccain'

    "I'm not counting on real change. Perhaps we can repair our reputation in the world, rebalance the supreme court, and MAYBE restore a little bit of the constitution."

    now, that's a ringing fucking endorsement! i don't expect real change but i will vote anyway! YOU might as well vote for the easter bunny, then!

    you don't even believe that shit you said other than the supreme court justices. he sure as fuck won't repair the constitution being a supporter of the patriot act and the FISA abuses and terrorist surveillance act or whatever it was. and he definitely won't repair our reputation around the world following foreign policies like reagan and bush I like he said, supporting israel in it's occupation and murder of many innocents, keeping the occupation in iraq going thru his presidency....

    laughable. and what's even more laughable is how you and others try to act so righteous just b/c i and others aren't so easily willing to cast aside our beliefs and ideals....but hey, whatever




    now if this had been me or abook there'd be some comment about a tag team or something, but i guess integrity has never been a strong suit of some...

    but hey, my2hands, if voting for someone just b/c they are "good looking, charasmatic, and a hell of a speaker that has admitted to smoking pot" is what does it for ya....

    :rolleyes:

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?p=5635719#post5635719

    afraid? again, yes!

    your "messiah" nader ran in 2000 (lost) and probably took a lot of votes from Gore... yeah yeah yeah I know Gore shoulda been a better candidate.

    In any case almost all of my fears (and a few I hadn't thought of) have come true. Maybe not the nuclear apocalypse, which I considered worst case scenario but hang in there, we still have seven months to go.

    If anyone is scared of anything it's you of Democrats.

    tell me, do you own an ipod? ever watched a shitty reality show? eaten at a fast food place? bought anything made in china? bought food at a non local grocery? own an x box? bought anything you saw on a TV show?

    guess what? You vote everyday to keep the oppressive corporate machine going! so the ONE vote you will cast this november really ain't going to mean dick.

    In a previous post (completely ignored by the nader crowd) I stated we must first take back the corporations, then we can take back the politicians, the presidency will follow.

    This is the system we have. That's it! It's either this or bloody revolution.

    ONE of these guys is going to be president : 1. Obama 2. McCain

    that's just the way it is. face it or don't. whatever.

    chant "it's not my fault, I voted for nader" up and down the street repetedly at the top of your lungs as the world burns.




    hey that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
  • Urban HikerUrban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    In a previous post (completely ignored by the nader crowd) I stated we must first take back the corporations, then we can take back the politicians, the presidency will follow.

    This is the system we have. That's it! It's either this or bloody revolution.

    Why do have we to take them back in an order?

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=gfLD-7bCtME
    Walking can be a real trip
    ***********************
    "We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
    ***********************
    Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
  • Why do have we to take them back in an order?

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=gfLD-7bCtME

    Q:why do you have to build a building from the ground up?

    A: It's the only way it will stand!!
  • Urban HikerUrban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    Q:why do you have to build a building from the ground up?

    A: It's the only way it will stand!!

    If we're gonna roll with construction analogies, I see this as a major overhaul. We can work on the plumbing and the electrical system at the same time. First, I want to knock out some walls.
    Walking can be a real trip
    ***********************
    "We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
    ***********************
    Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
  • If we're gonna roll with construction analogies, I see this as a major overhaul. We can work on the plumbing and the electrical system at the same time. First, I want to knock out some walls.

    fair enough

    I'm for taking the path of least resistance. We have more power over the corporations than over politicians.

    politicians promise, then lie. with corporations, if you don't spend they cater to you.

    Let's say that the miracle of miracles happen and ralph wins. He's still not going to change anything because he will be stonewalled by a deeeply corrupt house and senate, their lawyers and lobbyists and a media that basically gets paid to shut the fuck up.

    I think if we get to the corporations, we don't have to win over the politicians...

    they'll fall in line.

    so what do you say, moving on?
  • Urban HikerUrban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    fair enough

    I'm for taking the path of least resistance. We have more power over the corporations than over politicians.

    politicians promise, then lie. with corporations, if you don't spend they cater to you.

    Let's say that the miracle of miracles happen and ralph wins. He's still not going to change anything because he will be stonewalled by a deeeply corrupt house and senate, their lawyers and lobbyists and a media that basically gets paid to shut the fuck up.

    I think if we get to the corporations, we don't have to win over the politicians...

    they'll fall in line.

    so what do you say, moving on?

    I'm with you on the corporations. There are many reasons besides discontinuing the support of their corruption that people (American in particular) need to stop wasting money on these assholes.

    We need to take our lives back. For many that includes an uncomfortable step back into the reality of living within ones means.

    It doesn't stop there. As long as we have our backs turned, politicians will take advantage of us. We need to watch them like hawks. They work for us. We need to act like managers.

    If you're not doing the job for which I've hired you, you're fucking fired.
    Walking can be a real trip
    ***********************
    "We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
    ***********************
    Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    If we're gonna roll with construction analogies, I see this as a major overhaul. We can work on the plumbing and the electrical system at the same time. First, I want to knock out some walls.

    I like Eddies quote from 2004 on the topic of no longer voting 3rd party (aka nader)


    "Voting 3rd party right now is like trying to remodel your house while the basement is on fire" ~ Ev

    i agree with that 100%
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    quick question... a serious question


    what do all of you Nader supporters and voters plan on doing the day after the election when he loses and has maybe 1% of the vote? what change did you cause? how did you change the system? how did you end the war? how did you change the health care system?


    this shit isnt a game folks
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    If we're gonna roll with construction analogies, I see this as a major overhaul. We can work on the plumbing and the electrical system at the same time. First, I want to knock out some walls.


    your vote for nader isnt knocking out shit
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