what year will liberals stop being afraid of conservatives???

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  • writersu
    writersu Posts: 1,867
    _outlaw wrote:
    Although I don't like Obama, why the fuck would you be happy about McCain?


    You know, I don't know, but I just want someone, I don't care if they are Republican or Democrat truly, to make statements, take stands, and not waiver when someone questions them about it.
    I don't know as much as some of the people here know about politics certainly, but that is the one thing I admire about President Bush. He knows he is not popular in terms of the masses but he is doing what he feels is right. Like a parent, live by your gut instincts. I know someone will say that he is a fool, I don't care, hell it's no big deal to me to agree to disagree but I just want someone I can trust that they are living by their values and not their popularity.
    Still, though I wouldn't want a radical prolifer in office either. Don't know what McCain feels about that---abortion.

    I know I should care, but I am so tired that I just haven't followed in detail a whole lot of these people. I tend to judge them by face value. and sorry, I never trusted Hillary. I think I would have thought a lot differently if she would have given Bill the boot.
    Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......


    Together we will float like angels.........

    In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
  • stupidcorporatewhore
    stupidcorporatewhore Posts: 761
    El_Kabong wrote:
    ????? our entire fucking system is busted! and helping keep the 2 party dictatorship in power isn't going to change any of those things. obama lies repeatedly about laws and bills he passed, ties to lobbyists, ties to other questionable ppl, gives more hawkish answers about iraq on conservative radio shows (like saying part of the reason he was against the war was b/c we didn't finish the war in afghanistan yet tells more liberally minded ppl it was a 'stupid war')....
    well, i doubt the definition of bravery is voting for someone b/c they aren't the other guy of the 2 allowable parties to vote for. and i'm pretty sure it's not voting for things like the patriot act and other shit i don't agree w/
    so go ahead, stupid corporate whore, vote based on fear of what the guy w/ an -R next to his name will do or will put on the supreme court, but plz don't act like it has fuckall to do w/ bravery, it is based out of nothing but fear. you don't say 'i'm voting for obama b/c i like.....' instead you say 'ah, gee, he will pick better supreme court justices than mccain'

    "I'm not counting on real change. Perhaps we can repair our reputation in the world, rebalance the supreme court, and MAYBE restore a little bit of the constitution."

    now, that's a ringing fucking endorsement! i don't expect real change but i will vote anyway! YOU might as well vote for the easter bunny, then!

    you don't even believe that shit you said other than the supreme court justices. he sure as fuck won't repair the constitution being a supporter of the patriot act and the FISA abuses and terrorist surveillance act or whatever it was. and he definitely won't repair our reputation around the world following foreign policies like reagan and bush I like he said, supporting israel in it's occupation and murder of many innocents, keeping the occupation in iraq going thru his presidency....

    laughable. and what's even more laughable is how you and others try to act so righteous just b/c i and others aren't so easily willing to cast aside our beliefs and ideals....but hey, whatever




    now if this had been me or abook there'd be some comment about a tag team or something, but i guess integrity has never been a strong suit of some...

    but hey, my2hands, if voting for someone just b/c they are "good looking, charasmatic, and a hell of a speaker that has admitted to smoking pot" is what does it for ya....

    :rolleyes:

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?p=5635719#post5635719

    afraid? again, yes!

    your "messiah" nader ran in 2000 (lost) and probably took a lot of votes from Gore... yeah yeah yeah I know Gore shoulda been a better candidate.

    In any case almost all of my fears (and a few I hadn't thought of) have come true. Maybe not the nuclear apocalypse, which I considered worst case scenario but hang in there, we still have seven months to go.

    If anyone is scared of anything it's you of Democrats.

    tell me, do you own an ipod? ever watched a shitty reality show? eaten at a fast food place? bought anything made in china? bought food at a non local grocery? own an x box? bought anything you saw on a TV show?

    guess what? You vote everyday to keep the oppressive corporate machine going! so the ONE vote you will cast this november really ain't going to mean dick.

    In a previous post (completely ignored by the nader crowd) I stated we must first take back the corporations, then we can take back the politicians, the presidency will follow.

    This is the system we have. That's it! It's either this or bloody revolution.

    ONE of these guys is going to be president : 1. Obama 2. McCain

    that's just the way it is. face it or don't. whatever.

    chant "it's not my fault, I voted for nader" up and down the street repetedly at the top of your lungs as the world burns.




    hey that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
  • Urban Hiker
    Urban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    In a previous post (completely ignored by the nader crowd) I stated we must first take back the corporations, then we can take back the politicians, the presidency will follow.

    This is the system we have. That's it! It's either this or bloody revolution.

    Why do have we to take them back in an order?

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=gfLD-7bCtME
    Walking can be a real trip
    ***********************
    "We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
    ***********************
    Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
  • stupidcorporatewhore
    stupidcorporatewhore Posts: 761
    Urban Hiker wrote:
    Why do have we to take them back in an order?

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=gfLD-7bCtME

    Q:why do you have to build a building from the ground up?

    A: It's the only way it will stand!!
  • Urban Hiker
    Urban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    Q:why do you have to build a building from the ground up?

    A: It's the only way it will stand!!

    If we're gonna roll with construction analogies, I see this as a major overhaul. We can work on the plumbing and the electrical system at the same time. First, I want to knock out some walls.
    Walking can be a real trip
    ***********************
    "We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
    ***********************
    Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
  • stupidcorporatewhore
    stupidcorporatewhore Posts: 761
    Urban Hiker wrote:
    If we're gonna roll with construction analogies, I see this as a major overhaul. We can work on the plumbing and the electrical system at the same time. First, I want to knock out some walls.

    fair enough

    I'm for taking the path of least resistance. We have more power over the corporations than over politicians.

    politicians promise, then lie. with corporations, if you don't spend they cater to you.

    Let's say that the miracle of miracles happen and ralph wins. He's still not going to change anything because he will be stonewalled by a deeeply corrupt house and senate, their lawyers and lobbyists and a media that basically gets paid to shut the fuck up.

    I think if we get to the corporations, we don't have to win over the politicians...

    they'll fall in line.

    so what do you say, moving on?
  • Urban Hiker
    Urban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    fair enough

    I'm for taking the path of least resistance. We have more power over the corporations than over politicians.

    politicians promise, then lie. with corporations, if you don't spend they cater to you.

    Let's say that the miracle of miracles happen and ralph wins. He's still not going to change anything because he will be stonewalled by a deeeply corrupt house and senate, their lawyers and lobbyists and a media that basically gets paid to shut the fuck up.

    I think if we get to the corporations, we don't have to win over the politicians...

    they'll fall in line.

    so what do you say, moving on?

    I'm with you on the corporations. There are many reasons besides discontinuing the support of their corruption that people (American in particular) need to stop wasting money on these assholes.

    We need to take our lives back. For many that includes an uncomfortable step back into the reality of living within ones means.

    It doesn't stop there. As long as we have our backs turned, politicians will take advantage of us. We need to watch them like hawks. They work for us. We need to act like managers.

    If you're not doing the job for which I've hired you, you're fucking fired.
    Walking can be a real trip
    ***********************
    "We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
    ***********************
    Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Urban Hiker wrote:
    If we're gonna roll with construction analogies, I see this as a major overhaul. We can work on the plumbing and the electrical system at the same time. First, I want to knock out some walls.

    I like Eddies quote from 2004 on the topic of no longer voting 3rd party (aka nader)


    "Voting 3rd party right now is like trying to remodel your house while the basement is on fire" ~ Ev

    i agree with that 100%
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    quick question... a serious question


    what do all of you Nader supporters and voters plan on doing the day after the election when he loses and has maybe 1% of the vote? what change did you cause? how did you change the system? how did you end the war? how did you change the health care system?


    this shit isnt a game folks
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Urban Hiker wrote:
    If we're gonna roll with construction analogies, I see this as a major overhaul. We can work on the plumbing and the electrical system at the same time. First, I want to knock out some walls.


    your vote for nader isnt knocking out shit
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    my2hands wrote:
    your vote for nader isnt knocking out shit

    In 2000, it knocked out Al Gore ;)
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    my2hands wrote:
    ok, that is the 3rd or 4th time you have called into question my character, integrity, or called me a hypocrite, so i am going to give you some advice good friend.

    you dont know me, so chill with the assumptions and personal attacks. we have only spoken here yet you act as if you know me? also, would you tlak to me or anyone else like that in the street? probably not, i assume you were raised well, so act like it.

    do i really have to go through the entire scenario as to why i am supporting Obama in this election? give you every detail of the process as it unfolded? give you every thought i have had along the way, pro and con? explain every detail of how i became more aware and interested in barack obama?

    could you? all the other times you've been asked you get mad and say you don't owe anyone an explanation, which you don't but you shouldn't be surprised when someone asks how you went from calling him a corporate whore to full support even rationalizing the patrtiot act, FISA....whatever is needed to rationalize
    my2hands wrote:
    explain the impact of Kucinch endorsing Obama only days before i voted before he bowed out? act as if everything in politic's or the MT has to pass the El Kabong/abook progressive litmus test?

    again, kucinich has never given his endorsement to obama. for a single caucus

    here is a video of when he dropped out of the race

    http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/01/kucinich_drops_presidential_bi.html

    about 1/2 way he is asked if he will endorse another candidate and he says no, he'd have to talk to whoever is chosen.
    my2hands wrote:
    you are acting like a friggin martyr because you're voting for nader and the former democrat gonzalez... whoopdeefuckingdoo

    how do i act like a martyr?? i argue my point of view like almost anyone else here
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    afraid? again, yes!

    fear isn't the best emotion to base decisions on
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    your "messiah" nader ran in 2000 (lost) and probably took a lot of votes from Gore... yeah yeah yeah I know Gore shoulda been a better candidate.

    my messiah? LOL

    is it that there's a lot to respect and admire about nader, kucinich and even gonzalez while there's really not a whole lot to say about obama other than he's not the scary republican?
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    In any case almost all of my fears (and a few I hadn't thought of) have come true. Maybe not the nuclear apocalypse, which I considered worst case scenario but hang in there, we still have seven months to go.

    so, you're saying you are voting for obama b/c you are afraid mccain would pick worse supreme court justices...but it's not even that big of a fear? and why would he pick more progressive supreme court justices when he doesn't even pick progressive advisors? he picked the guy from citibank that called the dept of treasury asking to help enron out!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Rubin#Post-political_career

    and a chief economist for the World Bank, Jason Furman
    http://www.counterpunch.org/maass06282008.html

    http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080630/klein

    also good:
    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=285579
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    If anyone is scared of anything it's you of Democrats.

    how so? i'm just not voting for them and calling them out on their bullshit...i'm voting the way i am based on what i view as right. what i want, not what i don't want. it has nothing to do w/ fear or even bravery, it's about voting for what i think is the best option (that is available to everybody).
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    tell me, do you own an ipod? ever watched a shitty reality show? eaten at a fast food place? bought anything made in china? bought food at a non local grocery? own an x box? bought anything you saw on a TV show?

    no, i don't have an ipod or mp3 player, i have watched shitty reality shows but not for a few years, of course i've eaten at a fast food place, i'm an american. but i do try to limit it and eat it as a last resort. i try to limit products made from slave labor. don't have an x-box and i can't think of anything i bought from a tv show...i haven't really watched tv for a few years. the shows i want to see like lost and the office i can watch online for free
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    guess what? You vote everyday to keep the oppressive corporate machine going! so the ONE vote you will cast this november really ain't going to mean dick.

    i also work hard to not support corporations i disagree w/. i haven't bought a coke for a long time, i don't buy nestle products, nike, i don't shop at wal-mart, i try to steer clear of products made in china as much as possible, i stop at a local gas station or the local Citgo unless i have no other option instead of going to Exxon or BP. i know my ONE vote won't change corporate policy, but it also means i'm not playing a part in supporting those policies even if i try to lie to myself and say i need to be corrupt to stop corruption, which is what many say obama needs to do....or rather that is what obama supporters say when he does something corrupt and that's the only way you have to justify it.
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    In a previous post (completely ignored by the nader crowd) I stated we must first take back the corporations, then we can take back the politicians, the presidency will follow.

    maybe we should multi-task, ya know, focus on more than just a single aspect of a very big and complex problem? like maybe hold our elected representatives accountable instead of saying 'they lied? well, that's just what politicians do...'

    all your decisions should based on what you think is right, not just some or a few. you can't say you want to be focused on fighting corporate power by supporting corporate whores
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    This is the system we have. That's it! It's either this or bloody revolution.

    i disagree. this is the system we support and help keep in place by playing along
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    ONE of these guys is going to be president : 1. Obama 2. McCain

    that's just the way it is. face it or don't. whatever.

    chant "it's not my fault, I voted for nader" up and down the street repetedly at the top of your lungs as the world burns.




    hey that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.


    but according to you the world will burn regardless, the only difference is under obama there will be better supreme court judges as the world burns. but i guess you will be chanting 'that's just the way it is'
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    my2hands wrote:
    quick question... a serious question


    what do all of you Nader supporters and voters plan on doing the day after the election when he loses and has maybe 1% of the vote? what change did you cause? how did you change the system? how did you end the war? how did you change the health care system?


    this shit isnt a game folks


    i will know i was true to my authentic self, beliefs and my ideals.

    ppl shouldn't deny or overlook the power of intention
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Urban Hiker
    Urban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    my2hands wrote:
    I like Eddies quote from 2004 on the topic of no longer voting 3rd party (aka nader)


    "Voting 3rd party right now is like trying to remodel your house while the basement is on fire" ~ Ev

    i agree with that 100%


    Well then you're agreeing with a guy who isn't following the rules when it comes to home remodeling.

    Get your fucking permits, Ed.
    Walking can be a real trip
    ***********************
    "We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
    ***********************
    Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    my2hands wrote:
    I like Eddies quote from 2004 on the topic of no longer voting 3rd party (aka nader)


    "Voting 3rd party right now is like trying to remodel your house while the basement is on fire" ~ Ev

    i agree with that 100%


    now it's 2008, so back to my original question but will reword for you:

    what year will the basement not be on fire??
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Urban Hiker
    Urban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    my2hands wrote:
    quick question... a serious question


    what do all of you Nader supporters and voters plan on doing the day after the election when he loses and has maybe 1% of the vote? what change did you cause? how did you change the system? how did you end the war? how did you change the health care system?


    this shit isnt a game folks

    Grassroots. We're banding small groups together. Nader's name draws many. He's helping us network. A bunch of squeaky wheels are going after these issues. I work in government, government hates squeaky wheels. They'll do just about anything to shut them up.

    Now pose your own question to yourself. How are you changing the system by supporting candidate who will not end the war or make worthwhile changes to our healthcare system?

    As far as games go, I would say your candidate thinks it's a game. Remember, he's making every "strategic" move he needs to just to WIN. A game played with poor sportsmanship if you ask me.
    Walking can be a real trip
    ***********************
    "We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
    ***********************
    Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
  • Urban Hiker
    Urban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    my2hands wrote:
    your vote for nader isnt knocking out shit


    We'll see
    Walking can be a real trip
    ***********************
    "We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
    ***********************
    Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
  • stupidcorporatewhore
    stupidcorporatewhore Posts: 761
    El_Kabong wrote:
    maybe we should multi-task, ya know, focus on more than just a single aspect of a very big and complex problem? like maybe hold our elected representatives accountable instead of saying 'they lied? well, that's just what politicians do...'

    agreed. Perhaps we can pressure Obama to do the righ thing once he wins.

    in other words back the lesser of two evils, than apply the full court pressure.

    this, to me is a better use of energy than backing a sure loser and allowing the McWorst case scenario to saunter through the white House gates.
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Urban Hiker wrote:
    We'll see


    yeah, ok, we'll see :rolleyes:

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