As far as I care you can die as well. At no point did I say just accept it for what it was. Since you clearly enjoy ignoring my posts and questions you probably overlooked me asking numerous times to see proof of what the other side claims from someone that is not retired military and is not some kook. Now if you want to provide me with that, great. Otherwise I will continue to search on my own. But the more nutbags I come across in my searches continues to hammer the point home more and more that although not everything may appear as it seems, it does not equate to mass conspiracy, government cover-up, inside job. To draw that conclusion based on the "proof" that I've seen is ludicrous. So, to me your grandstanding is comical at best. Keep it up. It's very entertaining.
There are some seemingly outlandish claims made on this tragedy all over the internet. As a seeker of truth, though, do you rule out the possibility of an inside job by at least one American in government? Why or why not?
There are some seemingly outlandish claims made on this tragedy all over the internet. As a seeker of truth, though, do you rule out the possibility of an inside job by at least one American in government? Why or why not?
I can not effectively rule anything out. Rather, I base my beliefs and ideas on the subject based on who is providing the information, what they are saying, and how logical it is. I believe that many Americans in government had a lot of advanced knowledge of the events and did not take the necessary actions to do anything about it. But I have yet to see any convincing evidence to suggest that anyone in the US GOVT had any responsibility in orchestrating the attacks, or making them worse than what they were. But with that being said, I also believe that if it was at all an Inside Job, I am ASTOUNDED that anyone in this Government would have been able to pull this off and if they were able to have done it then I believe that no one will ever be able to prove it. Back to my logical comment above and to talk about the OP's claim, If this steel was cut prior to the attacks, how was this done?? I know that the WTC's had 24 hour security with extensive video monitoring. Didn't any of these security members notice night after night people coming in with tools, cutting through the structure, and not said anything about it?? Where are the guards now? Wouldn't one of them have spoke up. You know they escaped the building, at least the ones on the bottom levels.
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
I've not heard anyone suggest anything about steel being cut prior to the attack? Is this a genuine claim, this is truly silly if it is, but i've never heard any word of it before?
Yeah, some of these facts are from popular mechanics but I guess logical scientific explanations aren't good enough for you but some whacko and false facts that have been proven false are proof of this ridiculous crap. No matter what anyone says or proves you would never change your mind so it is a waste of time.
no, i just question an article written by the cousin of the head of homeland security who when asked if there was a relation said he had no idea (but his mom seemed to have no trouble recalling it when she was asked)
and i can say the same for you...no matter how many ppl i show you who say the official recount doesn't make sense you will not change your mind, either.
again, what is your proof bin laden did it? the administration says so? i can show you various interviews after 9/11 where he swears he had nothing to do w/ it, pakistan did it...all you have is the word of the administration and their miracle tape of a fat bin laden w/ a bigger nose who writes w/ his wrong hand :rolleyes:
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I remember watching events that day and when they said that plane had turned around I was able to figure out it was on its way to DC when they said where it was. What you said proves nothing. Just another opinion made to sound like a fact.
too bad you weren't in charge, maybe you could've scrambled fighters from andrew's air force base instead of doing what cheney did: wait until right before it hit the pentagon to give an order
As to the seismographs you contradict yourself. This stupid video shows the explosions very hight up the building that is says are explosives. Do you really believe these are these explosions that caused seismic activity? You make it sound like the explosions are at the base of the building but the video shows different. Also you led us to believe that Thermite was used to explain the cut angles of the beams. But thermite doesn't explode so that couldn't be it either.
Now a crumbling building would cause plenty of seismic activity but detenation devices? I don't think so. Look at the Popular mechanics story it clearly explains the seismograph activity.
As far as the plane you say they sent to intercept flight 77. What you said isn't true.
There was a plane in the area and they asked it to confirm that the plane had indeed crashed and it flew over the crash zone and confirmed it. the military plane was in route. the pilot of this plane has confirmed this but now refuses to do interviews because of people like you bothering him so much.
the pilot told you this, did he?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I can not effectively rule anything out. Rather, I base my beliefs and ideas on the subject based on who is providing the information, what they are saying, and how logical it is. I believe that many Americans in government had a lot of advanced knowledge of the events and did not take the necessary actions to do anything about it. But I have yet to see any convincing evidence to suggest that anyone in the US GOVT had any responsibility in orchestrating the attacks, or making them worse than what they were. But with that being said, I also believe that if it was at all an Inside Job, I am ASTOUNDED that anyone in this Government would have been able to pull this off and if they were able to have done it then I believe that no one will ever be able to prove it. Back to my logical comment above and to talk about the OP's claim, If this steel was cut prior to the attacks, how was this done?? I know that the WTC's had 24 hour security with extensive video monitoring. Didn't any of these security members notice night after night people coming in with tools, cutting through the structure, and not said anything about it?? Where are the guards now? Wouldn't one of them have spoke up. You know they escaped the building, at least the ones on the bottom levels.
i don't know about the steel being cut before 9/11....? but i did post a thread a while back of an article saying the weekend before 9/11 power was cut to wtc1 and 2 from floors 40 or 50 and up....they said this was for security upgrades (could be enough time to set charges)....who was a principle in the security company who's contract expired on 9/11 or 9/12? the same person who is a principle in the company that did security at the airports the hijacked planes took off from...marvin bush
i noticed you didn't reply to the seismograph readings?
109) 9:59:04 a.m....wtc collapses...Seismographs at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, New York, 21 miles north of the WTC, recorded very interesting seismic activity on September 11, 2001 that has still not been explained.
While the aircraft crashes caused minimal earth shaking, significant earthquakes with unusual spikes occurred at the beginning of each collapse. The Palisades seismic data recorded a 2.1 magnitude earthquake during the 10-second collapse of the South Tower at 9:59:04 and a 2.3 quake during the 9-second collapse of the North Tower at 10:28:31.
The Palisades seismic record shows that -- as the collapses began -- a huge seismic "spikes" marked the moment the greatest energy went into the ground. The strongest jolts were both registered at the beginning of the collapses, well before the falling debris struck the earth.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
The cut beams were cut during clean up and I found this explanation for the molten mass.
"Oxidation of iron by air is not the only EXOTHERMIC reaction of iron (= structural steel which is about 98 % Fe, 1 % Mn, 0.2 % C, 0.2 % Si.....). There is at least one additional reaction of iron with the capability of keeping the rubble pile hot and cooking!
The reaction between IRON AND STEAM is also very EXOTHERMIC and fast at temperatures above 400 deg C. This reaction produces Fe3O4 AND HYDROGEN. It is the classic example of a REVERSIBLE REACTION studied in Chemistry labs at high school. But believe it or not, back at the turn of the century, the reaction of iron and steam was used as an industrial process for the manufacture of hydrogen.
I think iron and steam could have reacted in this way (at least for a while) and generated a lot of heat. What is more, the hydrogen released would have been converted back to water by reaction with oxygen, thereby generating even more heat. In this case spraying water on the rubble pile was like adding fuel to a fire!
Now add in gypsum reactions with H2 and CO and we have a great source of SO2 and/or H2S to sulfide the steel!
Perhaps the endless spraying of water on the rubble pile was not such a good idea!"
I've not heard anyone suggest anything about steel being cut prior to the attack? Is this a genuine claim, this is truly silly if it is, but i've never heard any word of it before?
I guess I must have mixed up one of the CT sites I was reading that claimed the steel was cut which is a normal thing to do in the process of using explosives to take down a building. You cut the steel, add explosives and a detonator, and you are good to go.
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
As far as I care you can die as well. At no point did I say just accept it for what it was. Since you clearly enjoy ignoring my posts and questions you probably overlooked me asking numerous times to see proof of what the other side claims from someone that is not retired military and is not some kook. Now if you want to provide me with that, great. Otherwise I will continue to search on my own. But the more nutbags I come across in my searches continues to hammer the point home more and more that although not everything may appear as it seems, it does not equate to mass conspiracy, government cover-up, inside job. To draw that conclusion based on the "proof" that I've seen is ludicrous. So, to me your grandstanding is comical at best. Keep it up. It's very entertaining.
these ppl are kooks???? i guess by 'kook' you mean anyone who says something you disagree w/?
-Ten-term Republican Congressman from Pennsylvania. House Armed Services Committee Vice Chairman. Homeland Security Committee Vice Chairman
-Former Senator and member of the 9/11 Commission, resigned December 2003. Currently serves on the board of directors of the Export-Import Bank of the United States. U.S. Senator from Georgia 1996-2002. Administrator of U.S. Veterans Administration 1977-1981. Awarded Silver Star and Bronze Star for U.S. Army bravery in Viet Nam.
-Director of FBI, 1993-2001. Former U.S. District Court Judge for Southern District of New York, appointed by President George H.W. Bush. Former Deputy United States Attorney in New York. Former FBI agent. Former officer in United States Army.
-Deputy Director of the White House Task Force on Terrorism under Ronald Reagan. Former Deputy Coordinator, Covert Intelligence Programs at the State Department. U.S. Ambassador and Chief of Mission to Iraq (1977-80). 32-year veteran of the Foreign Service.
-Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury under Ronald Reagan
-Assistant Secretary of Housing under George H.W. Bush. Former Managing Director of Wall Street investment bank, Dillon, Read & Co.
-Chief Economist, Department of Labor under George W. Bush 2001-2002. Former Director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis. Professor Emeritus, Texas A&M University.
-Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Warning under Presidents Nixon, Ford, and Carter (1973-77).
-Former State Department Interpreter for Presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton, Vice Presidents Dick Cheney and Al Gore, Secretaries of State Colin Powell and Madeleine Albright. 18-year State Department career.
-Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA. Responsible for President’s Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.
-Former National Intelligence Officer and Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis. 29-year CIA veteran.
-Senior Analyst, Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974-1976. Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst, Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1976 - 1986. Professor of International Security, National War College 1986-2004. Currently Senior Fellow, Center for International Policy and Adjunct Professor of International Relations, Johns Hopkins University
-Former CIA Case Officer, Specialist in Middle East, Directorate of Operations. Awarded Career Intelligence Medal. 21-year CIA veteran.
-14-year Counterterrorism expert, Security Division of Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). Team Leader of FAA's Red (Terrorism) Team. Former Team Leader in Federal Air Marshal program.
-Commanding General of Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), 1981 - 1984. Also commanded U.S. Army’s Intelligence Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career.
-Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. Air Force fighter pilot, over 100 combat missions. PhD in Aeronautics, Nuclear Engineering
-Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. 34-year Air Force career.
-Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense during Reagan Administration. Highly decorated Vietnam veteran (two Silver Stars, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart). Appointed by President George H.W. Bush to serve on American Battle Monuments Commission.
-Former Military Intelligence Officer, Defense Intelligence Agency. Member of Able Danger effort to target Al Qaeda’s global structure. Former Chief of the Army’s HUMINT [Human Intelligence] program. Awarded the Bronze Star for bravery for the first of his two combat tours to Afghanistan. 23-year military intelligence career.
-Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Staff Member, Office of Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran
-Former Marine Corps Intelligence Officer and Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special Commission in Iraq 1991-1998
-Former Air Force fighter pilot, over 100 combat missions. Commercial pilot for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years. Had previously flown the actual two United airplanes that were hijacked on 9/11.
these sites have architects, phsycists, structural engineers among others
hahaha, the director of the fbi is a kook, is it b/c he said they had NO evidence linking bin laden to 9/11? is that what makes him a kook to you?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I guess I must have mixed up one of the CT sites I was reading that claimed the steel was cut which is a normal thing to do in the process of using explosives to take down a building. You cut the steel, add explosives and a detonator, and you are good to go.
I've never blown up a building, but i have dem'ed many Bridges, I-beams, vehicles, concrete blocks . All you need is a shaped charge if you want maximum cutting power or it can simply be done by making sure you're charge runs the full length of the area to be cut on both sides without "opposing" the blasts. No need for any pre-cutting at all. I've seen an engine block dissappear of the face of the earth against 2 sticks of PE4, and Bridges devastated by set-ups you wouldnt see if you walked across it. Special forces could have bought that building down no problem, well, her Majestys' special forces could:) im not saying they did!
these ppl are kooks???? i guess by 'kook' you mean anyone who says something you disagree w/?
-Ten-term Republican Congressman from Pennsylvania. House Armed Services Committee Vice Chairman. Homeland Security Committee Vice Chairman
-Former Senator and member of the 9/11 Commission, resigned December 2003. Currently serves on the board of directors of the Export-Import Bank of the United States. U.S. Senator from Georgia 1996-2002. Administrator of U.S. Veterans Administration 1977-1981. Awarded Silver Star and Bronze Star for U.S. Army bravery in Viet Nam.
-Director of FBI, 1993-2001. Former U.S. District Court Judge for Southern District of New York, appointed by President George H.W. Bush. Former Deputy United States Attorney in New York. Former FBI agent. Former officer in United States Army.
-Deputy Director of the White House Task Force on Terrorism under Ronald Reagan. Former Deputy Coordinator, Covert Intelligence Programs at the State Department. U.S. Ambassador and Chief of Mission to Iraq (1977-80). 32-year veteran of the Foreign Service.
-Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury under Ronald Reagan
-Assistant Secretary of Housing under George H.W. Bush. Former Managing Director of Wall Street investment bank, Dillon, Read & Co.
-Chief Economist, Department of Labor under George W. Bush 2001-2002. Former Director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis. Professor Emeritus, Texas A&M University.
-Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Warning under Presidents Nixon, Ford, and Carter (1973-77).
-Former State Department Interpreter for Presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton, Vice Presidents Dick Cheney and Al Gore, Secretaries of State Colin Powell and Madeleine Albright. 18-year State Department career.
-Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA. Responsible for President’s Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.
-Former National Intelligence Officer and Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis. 29-year CIA veteran.
-Senior Analyst, Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974-1976. Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst, Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1976 - 1986. Professor of International Security, National War College 1986-2004. Currently Senior Fellow, Center for International Policy and Adjunct Professor of International Relations, Johns Hopkins University
-Former CIA Case Officer, Specialist in Middle East, Directorate of Operations. Awarded Career Intelligence Medal. 21-year CIA veteran.
-14-year Counterterrorism expert, Security Division of Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). Team Leader of FAA's Red (Terrorism) Team. Former Team Leader in Federal Air Marshal program.
-Commanding General of Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), 1981 - 1984. Also commanded U.S. Army’s Intelligence Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career.
-Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. Air Force fighter pilot, over 100 combat missions. PhD in Aeronautics, Nuclear Engineering
-Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. 34-year Air Force career.
-Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense during Reagan Administration. Highly decorated Vietnam veteran (two Silver Stars, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart). Appointed by President George H.W. Bush to serve on American Battle Monuments Commission.
-Former Military Intelligence Officer, Defense Intelligence Agency. Member of Able Danger effort to target Al Qaeda’s global structure. Former Chief of the Army’s HUMINT [Human Intelligence] program. Awarded the Bronze Star for bravery for the first of his two combat tours to Afghanistan. 23-year military intelligence career.
-Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Staff Member, Office of Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran
-Former Marine Corps Intelligence Officer and Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special Commission in Iraq 1991-1998
-Former Air Force fighter pilot, over 100 combat missions. Commercial pilot for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years. Had previously flown the actual two United airplanes that were hijacked on 9/11.
these sites have architects, phsycists, structural engineers among others
hahaha, the director of the fbi is a kook, is it b/c he said they had NO evidence linking bin laden to 9/11? is that what makes him a kook to you?
You misunderstood what I wrote, but was easy to do the way I wrote it. By kooks I meant the people that make outlandish claims about planes not crashing, and missles being fired, etc. I was no longer referring to just your link. The people that you have listed are quite reputable in their own professions. But by any means does that make them experts on 9/11? The ones that had the most credentials (IMO) were the ones that mostly complained about the poor job done by the 9/11 commission which I wholeheartedly agree with. I look forward to looking over the new links you provided. Finally, there are still some kooks on your list, but nowhere near what is on most conspiracy theory sites.
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
What's the general explanation for the streams of sparks or "melted steel" coming off, or dripping out of the towers prior to, or as they were falling?
It's in some of of the videos. Does anyone else know what I'm referring to?
What would that be?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
You misunderstood what I wrote, but was easy to do the way I wrote it. By kooks I meant the people that make outlandish claims about planes not crashing, and missles being fired, etc. I was no longer referring to just your link. The people that you have listed are quite reputable in their own professions. But by any means does that make them experts on 9/11? The ones that had the most credentials (IMO) were the ones that mostly complained about the poor job done by the 9/11 commission which I wholeheartedly agree with. I look forward to looking over the new links you provided. Finally, there are still some kooks on your list, but nowhere near what is on most conspiracy theory sites.
ok, yeah, that's how i misread it...as far as i know i don't believe any of those ppl on the 1st list think the planes that hit hte towers were holograms, but some of the ones w/ good credentials not only complained of the comissiion but also the official story.
what is the 'official' proof of what happened? it's that video that they found by some miracle hidden in a house on some routine raid, right?
even if just the planes took down towers 1 and 2 why did building 7 fall? they still can't answer that and there are just too many coincidences that make the official story unbelievable, especially when certain ppl in this administration said in september of 2000 that they needed a new pearl harbor to gain the support they needed for their agendas (invading iraq was one of them)
i also don't understand why they would seal the recordings of the firefighters communications?? is it b/c there's videos of them talking about bombs and secondary explosive devices?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
ok, yeah, that's how i misread it...as far as i know i don't believe any of those ppl on the 1st list think the planes that hit hte towers were holograms, but some of the ones w/ good credentials not only complained of the comissiion but also the official story.
what is the 'official' proof of what happened? it's that video that they found by some miracle hidden in a house on some routine raid, right?
even if just the planes took down towers 1 and 2 why did building 7 fall? they still can't answer that and there are just too many coincidences that make the official story unbelievable, especially when certain ppl in this administration said in september of 2000 that they needed a new pearl harbor to gain the support they needed for their agendas (invading iraq was one of them)
i also don't understand why they would seal the recordings of the firefighters communications?? is it b/c there's videos of them talking about bombs and secondary explosive devices?
Or why we can't see the video footage of the plane supposedly hitting the pentegon.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Or why we can't see the video footage of the plane supposedly hitting the pentegon.
What video?
For the sake of argument... Why do we need a video of a plane hitting the Pentagon when you've seen video from every conceivable angle of WTC 1&2 being hit by airliners and you conspiracy 'theorists' still deny that?
For the sake of argument... Why do we need a video of a plane hitting the Pentagon when you've seen video from every conceivable angle of WTC 1&2 being hit by airliners and you conspiracy 'theorists' still deny that?
Because they have footage so why haven't they shown it, what are they hiding? they love to show the towers being hit so why not the pentagon.
Deny what?
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
too bad you weren't in charge, maybe you could've scrambled fighters from andrew's air force base instead of doing what cheney did: wait until right before it hit the pentagon to give an order
the pilot told you this, did he?
Planes were scrambled but didn't reach the plane before it crashed. and no the pilot didn't tell me this. He did say it in an interview but again...just keep ignoring facts.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
no, i just question an article written by the cousin of the head of homeland security who when asked if there was a relation said he had no idea (but his mom seemed to have no trouble recalling it when she was asked)
and i can say the same for you...no matter how many ppl i show you who say the official recount doesn't make sense you will not change your mind, either.
again, what is your proof bin laden did it? the administration says so? i can show you various interviews after 9/11 where he swears he had nothing to do w/ it, pakistan did it...all you have is the word of the administration and their miracle tape of a fat bin laden w/ a bigger nose who writes w/ his wrong hand :rolleyes:
Strange how you believe Bin Laden over everyone else. And there have also been tapes where Bin Laden says he did 9/11 and some of his people have said they did it.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
Because they have footage so why haven't they shown it, what are they hiding? they love to show the towers being hit so why not the pentagon.
Deny what?
There aren't a lot of tourist standing around with cameras like there are in NYC. There was a video of the plane hitting the Pentagon but it is just a grainy security camera that doesn't show enough to convince people like you.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
go to this website. But again. This probably has too much fact and not opinions in it to make sense.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
NO the proof is on you to prove some ridiculous theory that they were cut to make the buildings collapse. The logical explanation is they were cut during clean up.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
I've never blown up a building, but i have dem'ed many Bridges, I-beams, vehicles, concrete blocks . All you need is a shaped charge if you want maximum cutting power or it can simply be done by making sure you're charge runs the full length of the area to be cut on both sides without "opposing" the blasts. No need for any pre-cutting at all. I've seen an engine block dissappear of the face of the earth against 2 sticks of PE4, and Bridges devastated by set-ups you wouldnt see if you walked across it. Special forces could have bought that building down no problem, well, her Majestys' special forces could:) im not saying they did!
Ok, so with your experience maybe you could answer the following questions:
1. Since you have blown up bridges, etc. how long in advance in needed to prep for a job, say a bridge?
2. Having seen demos on tv that have failed to take a small building down (like a casino) on the first try, how much PE4 and/or other explosives would be needed to take down structures like the WTC? How could they (whoever set the explosives) be certain that the buildings would come down?
3. Realizing that at a usual demolition of a building there is always a fire crew on site, and considering the amount of firefighters that were on site that day that lived, wouldn't some of them have recognized this as a controlled explosion? Wouldn't some of them have come forward?
4. Considering whoever set the explosives were part of a mass conspiracy to make this appear to be soley a terroist act, and who needed to have the melted steel and weakening structure of the WTC story to back them up, why wouldn't they take down the buildings in the order they were hit?
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
What's up with the interview of the firefighter the had his house ransacked by fully armored swat teams with machine guns, the bus stop in front of his house was actually moved for fear of "neighborhood safety", and was also improperly charged with possessing a legal firearm in another state which was full out gov't harassment. They lied to him citing a "chemical smell" was coming from his house so they could ransack it. A ground zero hero is being treated this way? wtf?
This guy was saying the consensus is that 75% of police and firemen at ground zero believe there was a cover up. The reason they are not saying anything is because they risk losing their health benefits and pension, and have their lives terrorized by the gov't like the dude above for speaking out. I'll see if I can find the MP3 of it.
most everyone that was at ground zero is sick and dying from asbestos lung. I doubt they would risk losing their health benefits.
Time will tell, but if these guys speak out they lose everything, and are branded terrorists by the govt, and treated as such.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
What's up with the interview of the firefighter the had his house ransacked by fully armored swat teams with machine guns, the bus stop in front of his house was actually moved for fear of "neighborhood safety", and was also improperly charged with possessing a legal firearm in another state which was full out gov't harassment. They lied to him citing a "chemical smell" was coming from his house so they could ransack it. A ground zero hero is being treated this way? wtf?
This guy was saying the consensus is that 75% of police and firemen at ground zero believe there was a cover up. The reason they are not saying anything is because they risk losing their health benefits and pension, and have their lives terrorized by the gov't like the dude above for speaking out. I'll see if I can find the MP3 of it.
most everyone that was at ground zero is sick and dying from asbestos lung. I doubt they would risk losing their health benefits.
Time will tell, but if these guys speak out they lose everything, and are branded terrorists by the govt, and treated as such.
These are the type of examples that put aside valid arguments and rush right back to big brother gonna take you down. What justification would the city have to take away a workers health benefits? I hope that if firefighters do come out (if there is something to come out to) do it in a major forum, and not online. But let me guess, that would be too risky and they would mysteriously end up dead, right?
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
These are the type of examples that put aside valid arguments and rush right back to big brother gonna take you down. What justification would the city have to take away a workers health benefits? I hope that if firefighters do come out (if there is something to come out to) do it in a major forum, and not online. But let me guess, that would be too risky and they would mysteriously end up dead, right?
Well they did it to this guy, as one of the first to speak out. Go figure? If most of the police and fire fighters have something to say why aren't we listening?
What's the big hush hush about?
I don't think they threaten their pension or benefits directly, however if they are dishonorably discharged from service for whatever reason...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
What's up with the interview of the firefighter the had his house ransacked by fully armored swat teams with machine guns, the bus stop in front of his house was actually moved for fear of "neighborhood safety", and was also improperly charged with possessing a legal firearm in another state which was full out gov't harassment. They lied to him citing a "chemical smell" was coming from his house so they could ransack it. A ground zero hero is being treated this way? wtf?
This guy was saying the consensus is that 75% of police and firemen at ground zero believe there was a cover up. The reason they are not saying anything is because they risk losing their health benefits and pension, and have their lives terrorized by the gov't like the dude above for speaking out. I'll see if I can find the MP3 of it.
most everyone that was at ground zero is sick and dying from asbestos lung. I doubt they would risk losing their health benefits.
Time will tell, but if these guys speak out they lose everything, and are branded terrorists by the govt, and treated as such.
If this is true I would definetly want to listen. However, I doubt the validity of the story.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
Well they did it to this guy, as one of the first to speak out. Go figure? If most of the police and fire fighters have something to say why aren't we listening?
What's the big hush hush about?
I don't think they threaten their pension of benefits directly, however if they are dishonorably discharged from service for whatever reason...
First, I would love to see more about this guy who spoke out. A quick google search turned up nothing. Second, let's assume what he says is true, that 75% of police, fire, and EMT's are believe there is a cover-up, then where are all of them? 75% is a helluva a lot of people. Strength in numbers anyone?
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
There are some seemingly outlandish claims made on this tragedy all over the internet. As a seeker of truth, though, do you rule out the possibility of an inside job by at least one American in government? Why or why not?
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I can not effectively rule anything out. Rather, I base my beliefs and ideas on the subject based on who is providing the information, what they are saying, and how logical it is. I believe that many Americans in government had a lot of advanced knowledge of the events and did not take the necessary actions to do anything about it. But I have yet to see any convincing evidence to suggest that anyone in the US GOVT had any responsibility in orchestrating the attacks, or making them worse than what they were. But with that being said, I also believe that if it was at all an Inside Job, I am ASTOUNDED that anyone in this Government would have been able to pull this off and if they were able to have done it then I believe that no one will ever be able to prove it. Back to my logical comment above and to talk about the OP's claim, If this steel was cut prior to the attacks, how was this done?? I know that the WTC's had 24 hour security with extensive video monitoring. Didn't any of these security members notice night after night people coming in with tools, cutting through the structure, and not said anything about it?? Where are the guards now? Wouldn't one of them have spoke up. You know they escaped the building, at least the ones on the bottom levels.
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
no, i just question an article written by the cousin of the head of homeland security who when asked if there was a relation said he had no idea (but his mom seemed to have no trouble recalling it when she was asked)
and i can say the same for you...no matter how many ppl i show you who say the official recount doesn't make sense you will not change your mind, either.
again, what is your proof bin laden did it? the administration says so? i can show you various interviews after 9/11 where he swears he had nothing to do w/ it, pakistan did it...all you have is the word of the administration and their miracle tape of a fat bin laden w/ a bigger nose who writes w/ his wrong hand :rolleyes:
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
too bad you weren't in charge, maybe you could've scrambled fighters from andrew's air force base instead of doing what cheney did: wait until right before it hit the pentagon to give an order
the pilot told you this, did he?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
i don't know about the steel being cut before 9/11....? but i did post a thread a while back of an article saying the weekend before 9/11 power was cut to wtc1 and 2 from floors 40 or 50 and up....they said this was for security upgrades (could be enough time to set charges)....who was a principle in the security company who's contract expired on 9/11 or 9/12? the same person who is a principle in the company that did security at the airports the hijacked planes took off from...marvin bush
i noticed you didn't reply to the seismograph readings?
109) 9:59:04 a.m....wtc collapses...Seismographs at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, New York, 21 miles north of the WTC, recorded very interesting seismic activity on September 11, 2001 that has still not been explained.
While the aircraft crashes caused minimal earth shaking, significant earthquakes with unusual spikes occurred at the beginning of each collapse. The Palisades seismic data recorded a 2.1 magnitude earthquake during the 10-second collapse of the South Tower at 9:59:04 and a 2.3 quake during the 9-second collapse of the North Tower at 10:28:31.
The Palisades seismic record shows that -- as the collapses began -- a huge seismic "spikes" marked the moment the greatest energy went into the ground. The strongest jolts were both registered at the beginning of the collapses, well before the falling debris struck the earth.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
heres another one:
http://www.ilpi.com/genchem/demo/thermite/index.html
Check out the word molten! they seem to love it:)
I guess I must have mixed up one of the CT sites I was reading that claimed the steel was cut which is a normal thing to do in the process of using explosives to take down a building. You cut the steel, add explosives and a detonator, and you are good to go.
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
these ppl are kooks???? i guess by 'kook' you mean anyone who says something you disagree w/?
-Ten-term Republican Congressman from Pennsylvania. House Armed Services Committee Vice Chairman. Homeland Security Committee Vice Chairman
-Former Senator and member of the 9/11 Commission, resigned December 2003. Currently serves on the board of directors of the Export-Import Bank of the United States. U.S. Senator from Georgia 1996-2002. Administrator of U.S. Veterans Administration 1977-1981. Awarded Silver Star and Bronze Star for U.S. Army bravery in Viet Nam.
-Director of FBI, 1993-2001. Former U.S. District Court Judge for Southern District of New York, appointed by President George H.W. Bush. Former Deputy United States Attorney in New York. Former FBI agent. Former officer in United States Army.
-Deputy Director of the White House Task Force on Terrorism under Ronald Reagan. Former Deputy Coordinator, Covert Intelligence Programs at the State Department. U.S. Ambassador and Chief of Mission to Iraq (1977-80). 32-year veteran of the Foreign Service.
-Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury under Ronald Reagan
-Assistant Secretary of Housing under George H.W. Bush. Former Managing Director of Wall Street investment bank, Dillon, Read & Co.
-Chief Economist, Department of Labor under George W. Bush 2001-2002. Former Director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis. Professor Emeritus, Texas A&M University.
-Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Warning under Presidents Nixon, Ford, and Carter (1973-77).
-Former State Department Interpreter for Presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton, Vice Presidents Dick Cheney and Al Gore, Secretaries of State Colin Powell and Madeleine Albright. 18-year State Department career.
-Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA. Responsible for President’s Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.
-Former National Intelligence Officer and Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis. 29-year CIA veteran.
-Senior Analyst, Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974-1976. Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst, Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1976 - 1986. Professor of International Security, National War College 1986-2004. Currently Senior Fellow, Center for International Policy and Adjunct Professor of International Relations, Johns Hopkins University
-Former CIA Case Officer, Specialist in Middle East, Directorate of Operations. Awarded Career Intelligence Medal. 21-year CIA veteran.
-14-year Counterterrorism expert, Security Division of Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). Team Leader of FAA's Red (Terrorism) Team. Former Team Leader in Federal Air Marshal program.
-Commanding General of Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), 1981 - 1984. Also commanded U.S. Army’s Intelligence Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career.
-Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. Air Force fighter pilot, over 100 combat missions. PhD in Aeronautics, Nuclear Engineering
-Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. 34-year Air Force career.
-Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense during Reagan Administration. Highly decorated Vietnam veteran (two Silver Stars, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart). Appointed by President George H.W. Bush to serve on American Battle Monuments Commission.
-Former Military Intelligence Officer, Defense Intelligence Agency. Member of Able Danger effort to target Al Qaeda’s global structure. Former Chief of the Army’s HUMINT [Human Intelligence] program. Awarded the Bronze Star for bravery for the first of his two combat tours to Afghanistan. 23-year military intelligence career.
-Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Staff Member, Office of Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran
-Former Marine Corps Intelligence Officer and Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special Commission in Iraq 1991-1998
-Former Air Force fighter pilot, over 100 combat missions. Commercial pilot for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years. Had previously flown the actual two United airplanes that were hijacked on 9/11.
these sites have architects, phsycists, structural engineers among others
http://stj911.org/
http://911scholars.org
hahaha, the director of the fbi is a kook, is it b/c he said they had NO evidence linking bin laden to 9/11? is that what makes him a kook to you?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I've never blown up a building, but i have dem'ed many Bridges, I-beams, vehicles, concrete blocks . All you need is a shaped charge if you want maximum cutting power or it can simply be done by making sure you're charge runs the full length of the area to be cut on both sides without "opposing" the blasts. No need for any pre-cutting at all. I've seen an engine block dissappear of the face of the earth against 2 sticks of PE4, and Bridges devastated by set-ups you wouldnt see if you walked across it. Special forces could have bought that building down no problem, well, her Majestys' special forces could:) im not saying they did!
You misunderstood what I wrote, but was easy to do the way I wrote it. By kooks I meant the people that make outlandish claims about planes not crashing, and missles being fired, etc. I was no longer referring to just your link. The people that you have listed are quite reputable in their own professions. But by any means does that make them experts on 9/11? The ones that had the most credentials (IMO) were the ones that mostly complained about the poor job done by the 9/11 commission which I wholeheartedly agree with. I look forward to looking over the new links you provided. Finally, there are still some kooks on your list, but nowhere near what is on most conspiracy theory sites.
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
It's in some of of the videos. Does anyone else know what I'm referring to?
What would that be?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
ok, yeah, that's how i misread it...as far as i know i don't believe any of those ppl on the 1st list think the planes that hit hte towers were holograms, but some of the ones w/ good credentials not only complained of the comissiion but also the official story.
what is the 'official' proof of what happened? it's that video that they found by some miracle hidden in a house on some routine raid, right?
even if just the planes took down towers 1 and 2 why did building 7 fall? they still can't answer that and there are just too many coincidences that make the official story unbelievable, especially when certain ppl in this administration said in september of 2000 that they needed a new pearl harbor to gain the support they needed for their agendas (invading iraq was one of them)
i also don't understand why they would seal the recordings of the firefighters communications?? is it b/c there's videos of them talking about bombs and secondary explosive devices?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
prove it
~Ron Burgundy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wVLeKwSkXA
what explains this?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Or why we can't see the video footage of the plane supposedly hitting the pentegon.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
What video?
For the sake of argument... Why do we need a video of a plane hitting the Pentagon when you've seen video from every conceivable angle of WTC 1&2 being hit by airliners and you conspiracy 'theorists' still deny that?
Because they have footage so why haven't they shown it, what are they hiding? they love to show the towers being hit so why not the pentagon.
Deny what?
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Planes were scrambled but didn't reach the plane before it crashed. and no the pilot didn't tell me this. He did say it in an interview but again...just keep ignoring facts.
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New Orleans '95
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Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
Strange how you believe Bin Laden over everyone else. And there have also been tapes where Bin Laden says he did 9/11 and some of his people have said they did it.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
There aren't a lot of tourist standing around with cameras like there are in NYC. There was a video of the plane hitting the Pentagon but it is just a grainy security camera that doesn't show enough to convince people like you.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm
go to this website. But again. This probably has too much fact and not opinions in it to make sense.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
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New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
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NO the proof is on you to prove some ridiculous theory that they were cut to make the buildings collapse. The logical explanation is they were cut during clean up.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
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New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
Ok, so with your experience maybe you could answer the following questions:
1. Since you have blown up bridges, etc. how long in advance in needed to prep for a job, say a bridge?
2. Having seen demos on tv that have failed to take a small building down (like a casino) on the first try, how much PE4 and/or other explosives would be needed to take down structures like the WTC? How could they (whoever set the explosives) be certain that the buildings would come down?
3. Realizing that at a usual demolition of a building there is always a fire crew on site, and considering the amount of firefighters that were on site that day that lived, wouldn't some of them have recognized this as a controlled explosion? Wouldn't some of them have come forward?
4. Considering whoever set the explosives were part of a mass conspiracy to make this appear to be soley a terroist act, and who needed to have the melted steel and weakening structure of the WTC story to back them up, why wouldn't they take down the buildings in the order they were hit?
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
This guy was saying the consensus is that 75% of police and firemen at ground zero believe there was a cover up. The reason they are not saying anything is because they risk losing their health benefits and pension, and have their lives terrorized by the gov't like the dude above for speaking out. I'll see if I can find the MP3 of it.
most everyone that was at ground zero is sick and dying from asbestos lung. I doubt they would risk losing their health benefits.
Time will tell, but if these guys speak out they lose everything, and are branded terrorists by the govt, and treated as such.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
These are the type of examples that put aside valid arguments and rush right back to big brother gonna take you down. What justification would the city have to take away a workers health benefits? I hope that if firefighters do come out (if there is something to come out to) do it in a major forum, and not online. But let me guess, that would be too risky and they would mysteriously end up dead, right?
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
Well they did it to this guy, as one of the first to speak out. Go figure? If most of the police and fire fighters have something to say why aren't we listening?
What's the big hush hush about?
I don't think they threaten their pension or benefits directly, however if they are dishonorably discharged from service for whatever reason...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
If this is true I would definetly want to listen. However, I doubt the validity of the story.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
First, I would love to see more about this guy who spoke out. A quick google search turned up nothing. Second, let's assume what he says is true, that 75% of police, fire, and EMT's are believe there is a cover-up, then where are all of them? 75% is a helluva a lot of people. Strength in numbers anyone?
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
here's the guy. I listened to an MP3 last night of what I was referring to specifically, but I can't find it...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5960554325625810328
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")