Why Do Some People Say, “Church Sucks!”

Cosmo

HoorayForHumans wrote:

it doesn't

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More like... it shouldn't... right?
Otherwise... there wouldn't be these religious wars going on.

HoorayForHumans

exactly
i guess i meant to say that it doesn't matter to me

josevolution

Ahnimus wrote:

Don't teach them anything, let them decide. If they as questions answer them. Keep in mind that even saying "Well, this is what I believe and why?" encourages children to share your beliefs. That may be the least you can do though.

yeah but i can't let them decide just yet he's 12 and she is 9 that time will be here soon but till then i feel we must attend services it really is hard though iv'e had reservations about organized religion for a long time i never took into account how i would deal with those ? regarding my own children untill now .....

Cosmo

josevolution wrote:

ok so i being a parent of 2 children should do what ?? ..
(1) tell them church sucks that it's all lies .

(2) the priest are all perverts.

(3) we need to go because we can see the good in people .

(4) teach them religion at home ..

i'm not a very religious person by no means but some how i believe going to church once a week would be good for my 2 kids...

...
If i had kids... I think I would lead them towards the Christian Church... but, I don't know which one... there are a bunch to choose from. I would probably base my decision on one that some of their friends go to... for the social aspect of it. Christianity mostly because Christmas kicks Chanukah's and Ramidan's ass.
I would attend services with them and tell them that if they have questions... they should ask. I would also allow them to decide on their own... when they are about 15 or 16 to decide what they want to do.
I would also tell them that God doesn't look upon one religion over another... regardless of what the church leaders tell them. God doesn't hate Hindus or Muslims or Buddhists or Jews or Scientologists... He loves them all as long as they are kind, caring, giving and loving people.

Ahnimus

josevolution wrote:

yeah but i can't let them decide just yet he's 12 and she is 9 that time will be here soon but till then i feel we must attend services it really is hard though iv'e had reservations about organized religion for a long time i never took into account how i would deal with those ? regarding my own children untill now .....

Well, in my opinion, that's brainwashing. It lays a foundational belief in the supernatural, which later in life, may or may not evolve into a belief in supernatural phenomena, without effort of finding natural causes.

josevolution

Ahnimus wrote:

Well, in my opinion, that's brainwashing. It lays a foundational belief in the supernatural, which later in life, may or may not evolve into a belief in supernatural phenomena, without effort of finding natural causes.

thanks for the educated response will just have to see ........

josevolution

Cosmo wrote:

...
If i had kids... I think I would lead them towards the Christian Church... but, I don't know which one... there are a bunch to choose from. I would probably base my decision on one that some of their friends go to... for the social aspect of it. Christianity mostly because Christmas kicks Chanukah's and Ramidan's ass.
I would attend services with them and tell them that if they have questions... they should ask. I would also allow them to decide on their own... when they are about 15 or 16 to decide what they want to do.
I would also tell them that God doesn't look upon one religion over another... regardless of what the church leaders tell them. God doesn't hate Hindus or Muslims or Buddhists or Jews or Scientologists... He loves them all as long as they are kind, caring, giving and loving people.

that is good caring opinions or suggestions i do appreciate that thanks.....

A Surprise Left

I went to church weekly for the best part of a decade (actually probably slightly more) and although I still go from time to time I am far less religious than I used to be. There are a variety of reasons for this, but mostly things like too many unanswered questions, lack of relevance and a way of life which one doesn't want to lead anymore.

CorporateWhore

Cosmo wrote:

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This is the same thing the followers of Muqtada Al Sadr state. You could be a spokesman for the Fundamentalist Shi'ites in Iraq/Iran that wish to instill good religious structure to everyone... including the conversion of the marginalized hippie Americans that worship hedonism and selfishness.

They're not wrong when they say American culture is hedonistic and selfish. Would you disagree? Do you think Americans are giving and unselfish?

gue_barium

CorporateWhore wrote:

They're not wrong when they say American culture is hedonistic and selfish. Would you disagree? Do you think Americans are giving and unselfish?

Humans are selfish by nature. I don't think any country or its people has a patent on it.

Cosmo

CorporateWhore wrote:

They're not wrong when they say American culture is hedonistic and selfish. Would you disagree? Do you think Americans are giving and unselfish?

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Yeah... that's why your statement fits in nicely with any fundamental religion... Christian or Muslim. Either side can use the same statement and make the same arguement.
That was my point.

CorporateWhore

Cosmo wrote:

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Yeah... that's why your statement fits in nicely with any fundamental religion... Christian or Muslim. Either side can use the same statement and make the same arguement.
That was my point.

I am not a fundamentalist though. I do not follow the Bible in literal word for word format.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are making the argument that Christians and Muslims would agree that selfish and hedonistic people say that "Church sucks." Does that make either of their beliefs less legitimate? What kind of point is that?

The Muslims are right when they say that hippy fucks prize hedonism and selfishness over worshipping in a community.

CorporateWhore

gue_barium wrote:

Humans are selfish by nature. I don't think any country or its people has a patent on it.

I'd say some countries are more selfish than others. America is about as selfish as it comes.

soulsinging

know1 wrote:

You can't be serious. You can't hardly open a thread on this board without someone blaming a Christian for messing up.

I'd like to see your numbers or any evidence at all that MOST Christians genuinely do not try to do better.

I think it's just the opposite, but I feel that the ones who do screw up get noticed much more than the many, many who do a lot of wonderful things for their fellow humans in the name of religion.

his quote said non-christians mess up and blame christians. ive never heard this done. not once have i heard an atheist say "my marriage fell apart becos of those damn christians" or i've got a drinking problem becos of jesus. but i hear christians all the time bitching about how their kids have sex and do drugs becos of the godless heathens in our culture. it's NEVER their fault. im looking for equivalent example.

the onl evidence i have is personal. i know maybe 10 devout christians. 90% of the christians i ever met dont do shit outside of go to church. they dont worship. they dont pray. they dont give a damn. they pay lip service for the hour they're in church each weekend and that is all. but these same people raise hell about anything they perceive as an assault on the values they do not even practice.

soulsinging

CorporateWhore wrote:

I'd say some countries are more selfish than others. America is about as selfish as it comes.

then move. i hear iran is doing a great job of making sure hedonism is shut out. you'd like it there.

soulsinging

CorporateWhore wrote:

I am not a fundamentalist though. I do not follow the Bible in literal word for word format.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are making the argument that Christians and Muslims would agree that selfish and hedonistic people say that "Church sucks." Does that make either of their beliefs less legitimate? What kind of point is that?

The Muslims are right when they say that hippy fucks prize hedonism and selfishness over worshipping in a community.

that'd be a real stunning point if those hippy fucks weren't right when they said religious fucks like you are hate-mongering fascists.

know1

soulsinging wrote:

his quote said non-christians mess up and blame christians. ive never heard this done. not once have i heard an atheist say "my marriage fell apart becos of those damn christians" or i've got a drinking problem becos of jesus. but i hear christians all the time bitching about how their kids have sex and do drugs becos of the godless heathens in our culture. it's NEVER their fault. im looking for equivalent example.

the onl evidence i have is personal. i know maybe 10 devout christians. 90% of the christians i ever met dont do shit outside of go to church. they dont worship. they dont pray. they dont give a damn. they pay lip service for the hour they're in church each weekend and that is all. but these same people raise hell about anything they perceive as an assault on the values they do not even practice.

Non Christians on this board blame Christians for every kind of ill in the world. I guess we've had 2 different experiences then because the Christians I know - and I know a lot - do not blame non-Christians for things that happen to them.

CorporateWhore

soulsinging wrote:

that'd be a real stunning point if those hippy fucks weren't right when they said religious fucks like you are hate-mongering fascists.

Haha, fascism has many fine attributes, actually.

soulsinging

CorporateWhore wrote:

Haha, fascism has many fine attributes, actually.

im not surprised to find you believe this. you and your ilk are the ones who woulda been first in line lockstepping and saying heil hitler in the 40s. congratulations.

cornnifer

soulsinging wrote:

i dont see much of the latter happening. ive never seen anyone who was a non-believer blame christians for their choices. they either dont care, dont see what they did as messing up, or dont think them messing up has anything to do with someone else's religion. i cant even think of an example that would fit the situation you described?

yes, many christians do genuinely try to do better. but i honestly feel most dont... they are christian in name only. they show up to church on sunday, zone out for an hour, then go home and don't think about jesus again until next sunday. they lie, gossip, steal, indulge in greed and lust and whatever else, and think nothing of it, figuring that one day a week is enough to get them off the hook. plenty of non-christians do this too, but at least they don't try to pretend about it. they either admit it's wrong and don't care, or think there's nothing wrong with it. i appreciate that more than saying it's wrong, pretending you care and publicly ranting about other people that do it, but figuring you're allowed to do it all you want becos that service on sunday will clean your slate. that pisses me off, and it's why i often find religion far more frustrating than atheism, who at least admit they dont give a shit.

Never seen it , huh? How about this:

"a guy who confesses his sins, asks forgiveness, then continues to do the same thing over and over and over figuring he can just keep confessing. i prefer the atheists who say "yeah, it's wrong but i dont care" to christians who claim to aspire to high ideals but are only paying lip service to being good"

The author of those words escapes me... but its the type of thing i'm talking about it. Look, Souls, you and i have had our disagreements and i feel like we have peacefully hammered them out and come to a respectful middleplace, so i don't want to open up any old wounds. That being said, your assesment of Christians and Christianity is more than slightly, shall we say, askew, and a tad hypocritical.
Listen, i'll give a concrete example. High profile Joe Schmo cheats on his taxes and you may get one paragraph on page eight. Joe Christian does the same thing and the media eats it up. Its all over the place and it takes about two flipping seconds to find a link to the story on this board. Why is that? You can't deny it, and you can't say it isn't a gross hypocrisy. A guy cheating on his taxes is a guy cheating on his taxes.
Also, its a bit hasty to condemn an entire world body of believers based on your, perhaps, prejudicial judgements of "ten" people you know.