I'm not entirely sure about what the substance of the post was, other than him/her being so bunched up about Ed/liberals on this board being huge facists or something.
Lay off the sauce. You are looking for words and meanings that arent there.
I think my honest to gosh biggest beef with extreme liberals is this facade of open-mindedness or free thinking that they espouse. Its a crock of shit. They are every bit as illogical and close-minded as their counterparts on the other end of the spectrum. Of course everything is America's fault. Of course terrorism is a false threat. Of course everything the West does is racist and imperialistic. Why aren't you getting the TRUTH?!
Not saying that Ed Vedder is one of these people, by the way. Just taking an opportunity to point out how similar "radicals" on opposite ends of the political spectrum start to sound. Everything blends together, the farther you go. Why do so many people forsake a middle path?
This is something that dawned on me lately (the middle path needs people people)...you can be Liberal and still hold other principles...I am sick of this freaking idealogy mind set where these are qualifications for being Lib/Con
Liberal: Must be pro-choice, anti-gun, Kyoto supporting, public everything, i hate war,gay marriage supporter, against capital punishment...blah blah blah
Conservative: pro-life, gun toting, Kyoto hating, no government, war mongering, i hate gays, pro capital punishment blah blah blah
Why the hell in the last few years certain aspects of poliical discussion have suddently been prerequistes for being a certain brand...todays culture has someqhat branded what it means to be Liberal or Conservative...sorry people but you really can be pro-choice, dual heathcare supportive, gay supporter, need something better than Kyoto, gun toting indivdual...sick of generalizations I guess....where has the middle gone????
This "branding" is seriously hurting us as a culture cause we cannot accomplish anything cause we have segagrated ourselves in these mindsets....we need more orginiality out there....
Is this the first thread on this subject that you've seen?
The first one in a while ... Why, was there a spate of "Mike Is Clearly A Republican" posts that I missed? I said that he sounds more moderate than Ed, and someone else said that he probably cares less about politics and more about being a rock star ... I've never read anything suggesting that he attends pro-life rallies and goes deer hunting with the Nuge.
The first one in a while ... Why, was there a spate of "Mike Is Clearly A Republican" posts that I missed? I said that he sounds more moderate than Ed, and someone else said that he probably cares less about politics and more about being a rock star ... I've never read anything suggesting that he attends pro-life rallies and goes deer hunting with the Nuge.
Like i said unless the band comes and joins this pow-wow no one will have a clue, we can only speculate.....
This is something that dawned on me lately (the middle path needs people people)...you can be Liberal and still hold other principles...I am sick of this freaking idealogy mind set where these are qualifications for being Lib/Con
Liberal: Must be pro-choice, anti-gun, Kyoto supporting, public everything, i hate war,gay marriage supporter, against capital punishment...blah blah blah
Conservative: pro-life, gun toting, Kyoto hating, no government, war mongering, i hate gays, pro capital punishment blah blah blah
Why the hell in the last few years certain aspects of poliical discussion have suddently been prerequistes for being a certain brand...todays culture has someqhat branded what it means to be Liberal or Conservative...sorry people but you really can be pro-choice, dual heathcare supportive, gay supporter, need something better than Kyoto, gun toting indivdual...sick of generalizations I guess....where has the middle gone????
This "branding" is seriously hurting us as a culture cause we cannot accomplish anything cause we have segagrated ourselves in these mindsets....we need more orginiality out there....
Good post, man ... I don't know what it is, but everything is totally polarized nowadays. Cons and Libs, you're either for us or against us. You hear it in Bush's pro-war rhetoric, and you hear it from the very folks who hate Bush for his pro-war rhetoric. Dialogue is dead, and its a damn shame.
The first one in a while ... Why, was there a spate of "Mike Is Clearly A Republican" posts that I missed? I said that he sounds more moderate than Ed, and someone else said that he probably cares less about politics and more about being a rock star ... I've never read anything suggesting that he attends pro-life rallies and goes deer hunting with the Nuge.
Perhaps--I remember a thread (on the MT I think) where that was happening and El Kabong posted contributions from opensecrets.org. That shut some people up.
Although I could be mixing up that thread with the numerous other ones where some said Mike must be conservative.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
Thats how YOU chose to interpret my words. Take off your blinders, and try and see what Im actually saying. Others have not only got the jist, but even agreed on some points. You sound more like an angry kid than I have. But thats MY opinion.
And I thought the "fuck em" was just a joke.
I never thought Id see the day that Id go from loving pearl jam because of Eddie, to loving pearl jam despite Eddie. Sad day for me.
Good post, man ... I don't know what it is, but everything is totally polarized nowadays. Cons and Libs, you're either for us or against us. You hear it in Bush's pro-war rhetoric, and you hear it from the very folks who hate Bush for his pro-war rhetoric. Dialogue is dead, and its a damn shame.
That is it exactly.....the extremes think they are brilliant in fact they are so close minded they cannot fathom how much they shut out any ideas from the other side...and unfortuntaly in some ways I fell into that catergory sometimes...makes me cringe....but not anymore...
That is it exactly.....the extremes think they are brilliant in fact they are so close minded they cannot fathom how much they shut out any ideas from the other side...and unfortuntaly in some ways I fell into that catergory sometimes...makes me cringe....but not anymore...
I know I'm guilty of it too ... Some issues evoke strong emotions and I think that's where the close-mindedness comes in.
I have wondered forever what the H stood for. Now I know.
As for StoryTellers, or any tv for that matter, if you're on it, you're at the mercy of the editing. The politics I saw had to do with the songs thus StoryTellers. There was a lot more concert and maybe seen in the context of the show entire, what was said wouldn't seem that monumental.
Does anyone really want rock stars solving things? I want them tattooed, greasy, and making noise - political and musical. Coming up with solutions? Not so much.
"The country is being run by extremists because the moderates have shit to do." - Jon Stewart
Auburn Hills '06 - Toronto 1 '06 - London '05 - Kitchener '05 - Clarkston '03 - Auburn Hills '00 - Auburn Hills '98 - East Lansing '98
My interpretation of that statement was that you were equating Ed's refusal to say something you want to hear with censorship.
Incidentally, I don't imagine he'd admit it, but I bet that Ed meant it when he said "Fuck 'em".
Free speech wasnt really the point of my statement. My point was that while Ed makes it sound like he's concerned about this right, that right, and the other right, he's really only worried about the things important to HIM.
"My interpretation of that statement was that you were equating Ed's refusal to say something you want to hear with censorship. "
Interesting interpretation. May be due to a serious set of liberal blinders.
I know I'm guilty of it too ... Some issues evoke strong emotions and I think that's where the close-mindedness comes in.
Yeah I know...its when you get so passionate about a SINGLE subject (9/10 its the war) you suddenly get a hate on for the other side and will try to find ways to disagree with anyway you can...the left labels the right war savages bent on world domination and the right labels the left as pussies holding out America for Islam to take over any day...which if you look at this culture (this message board culture) we inately share a common love and that is PJ...so why the hell can we not agree on more things...like really lets fix the problems with healthcare, lets clean up the environment (and it does not need to be Kyoto we as a nation can come up with something better if fucking take the time to listen to one another), security (without infringing on rights but at the same time take the necessary measures to ensure we are okay), etc.
Just frustrated how people disagree with ONE thing and brand you something you are not...I choose not to be Liberal or Conservative I simply want to be myself....
Does anyone really want rock stars solving things? I want them tattooed, greasy, and making noise - political and musical. Coming up with solutions? Not so much.
No cure for cancer, dennis leary. Dennis leary knows all.
"And I also don't go for this other thing now, with MTV being so big where you get a band that gets a hit video, and all of the sudden they think that they're like icons and they can tell us how to feel about environmental issues and how to vote and stuff. You know what I'm talking about? Like R.E.M. "Shiny Happy People" "Hey Hey Hey Hey Hey! Pull that bus over to the side of the pretentiousness turnpike, alright!? I want everybody off the bus. I want the shiny people over here, and the happy people over here, ok! I represent angry gun-toting meat-eating fucking people, alright!" Sit down and shut the fuck up Michael! Don Henley's gonna tell me how to vote. I don't fucking think so, ok? I got two words for Don Henley, Joe Fucking Walsh, ok!? Thanks for calling, Don! How long's your pony tail now? Ok!"
The first one in a while ... Why, was there a spate of "Mike Is Clearly A Republican" posts that I missed? I said that he sounds more moderate than Ed, and someone else said that he probably cares less about politics and more about being a rock star ... I've never read anything suggesting that he attends pro-life rallies and goes deer hunting with the Nuge.
According to an old Rolling Stone feature on the band written by Cameron Crowe, Mike flirted with conservatism in the mid or late 80's when his teen hair band moved down from Seattle to L.A. looking to get signed. They failed, and Mike moved back up to Seattle, cut his hair, and started reading books by Barry Goldwater. I'd have to check for the quote, but I could swear that he says something like "I almost became a conservative."
This, combined with the info on his campaign contributions, would indicate to me that he falls squarely within the liberal side of things.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
No cure for cancer, dennis leary. Dennis leary knows all.
"And I also don't go for this other thing now, with MTV being so big where you get a band that gets a hit video, and all of the sudden they think that they're like icons and they can tell us how to feel about environmental issues and how to vote and stuff. You know what I'm talking about? Like R.E.M. "Shiny Happy People" "Hey Hey Hey Hey Hey! Pull that bus over to the side of the pretentiousness turnpike, alright!? I want everybody off the bus. I want the shiny people over here, and the happy people over here, ok! I represent angry gun-toting meat-eating fucking people, alright!" Sit down and shut the fuck up Michael! Don Henley's gonna tell me how to vote. I don't fucking think so, ok? I got two words for Don Henley, Joe Fucking Walsh, ok!? Thanks for calling, Don! How long's your pony tail now? Ok!"
That is so funny! I have that on CD and VHS. Dennis Leary is outspoken these days about the current state ofthe world.
Casper, WY 06/16/95
Park City, UT 06/21/98
Mountain View, CA 06/01/03
San Diego, CA 07/07/06
San Francisco, CA 07/15/06
According to an old Rolling Stone feature on the band written by Cameron Crowe, Mike flirted with conservatism in the mid or late 80's when his teen hair band moved down from Seattle to L.A. looking to get signed. They failed, and Mike moved back up to Seattle, cut his hair, and started reading books by Barry Goldwater. I'd have to check for the quote, but I could swear that he says something like "I almost became a conservative."
This, combined with the info on his campaign contributions, would indicate to me that he falls squarely within the liberal side of things.
I know Mike isn't pro-war or pro-Bush ... Maybe its more about how he says things compared to Ed. I don't know, I want to hear the other band members speak on these topics, even if they do sound a lot like Ed.
I know Mike isn't pro-war or pro-Bush ... Maybe its more about how he says things compared to Ed. I don't know, I want to hear the other band members speak on these topics, even if they do sound a lot like Ed.
The lyrics of Bushleaguer were co-written by Stone.
The lyrics of Bushleaguer were co-written by Stone.
I think just the "blackout weaves its way" part, though ... I remember in an interview Stone mentioned that Ed thought this line was very cool, so he incorporated it into his anti-Bush rant.
Maybe Stone added other parts too ...
I know Mike isn't pro-war or pro-Bush ... Maybe its more about how he says things compared to Ed. I don't know, I want to hear the other band members speak on these topics, even if they do sound a lot like Ed.
I could see that being true to some extent, but I'd still imagine that the guys are mostly liberal across the board. Would you play a benefit concert for a pro-choice group if you were anti-abortion? Probably not.
Stone once said in an interview that he was probably the most conservative member of the band, and I could see that, too. Ed has called Stone his "foe" within the band on a few occasions, and that's probably in the context of having philosophical or maybe ideological disagreements with him.
Of course, Stone did wear a "Billionaires for Bush" t-shirt during the Vote for Change tour, so that's good. Members of both parties can find a reason to criticize the president. I mean, seriously, does that guy suck ass or what?
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
I could see that being true to some extent, but I'd still imagine that the guys are mostly liberal across the board. Would you play a benefit concert for a pro-choice group if you were anti-abortion? Probably not.
Stone once said in an interview that he was probably the most conservative member of the band, and I could see that, too. Ed has called Stone his "foe" within the band on a few occasions, and that's probably in the context of having philosophical or maybe ideological disagreements with him.
Of course, Stone did wear a "Billionaires for Bush" t-shirt during the Vote for Change tour, so that's good. Members of both parties can find a reason to criticize the president. I mean, seriously, does that guy suck ass or what?
I could see that being true to some extent, but I'd still imagine that the guys are mostly liberal across the board. Would you play a benefit concert for a pro-choice group if you were anti-abortion? Probably not.
Stone once said in an interview that he was probably the most conservative member of the band, and I could see that, too. Ed has called Stone his "foe" within the band on a few occasions, and that's probably in the context of having philosophical or maybe ideological disagreements with him.
Of course, Stone did wear a "Billionaires for Bush" t-shirt during the Vote for Change tour, so that's good. Members of both parties can find a reason to criticize the president. I mean, seriously, does that guy suck ass or what?
I think I am perhaps the Stone of this message board ... More conservative than many, but yeah, I can see how Bush sucks ass.
I think just the "blackout weaves its way" part, though ... I remember in an interview Stone mentioned that Ed thought this line was very cool, so he incorporated it into his anti-Bush rant.
Maybe Stone added other parts too ...
......Pearl Jam guitarist Stone Gossard said he wants to convince voters that the Bush administration has been reckless in its foreign policy since Sept. 11.
"For me, personally, I very much want John Kerry to win," Gossard said in an interview. "I think that he's expressed an interest in re-engaging the world community and saying the last administration is not representative of the way America wants to do business with the world."......
A rather positive endorsement of Kerry - so maybe Stone isn't as far left as Ed after all.
A rather positive endorsement of Kerry - so maybe Stone isn't as far left as Ed after all.
Stone's feelings on the subject were probably pretty typical of a lot of liberals in 2004. Normally, the far left will disagree with moderate Democrats during the primaries, for sure. Some far-left liberals still don't like a lot of things that President Clinton did and the whole Third Way bit and the DLC's influence on the party. They maybe still felt burned by the 2000 election, and just wanted a win in 2004, especially after seeing the direction that the administration took us in the ensuing 4 years. Personally, I felt that Senator Kerry would have been a very good president, but he was an ultra-shitty campaigner.
As far as Stone's comments, I'd love to hear him speak out more on politics, he sounds like he might be the most articulate speaker in the band.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
Personally, I felt that Senator Kerry would have been a very good president, but he was an ultra-shitty campaigner.
Actually, I agree with both you and Stone - I think Kerry would have been a pretty good president (still have my bumper sticker on - but that might just be because I'm lazy and have a shitty car). Hell, he was the first major party candidate that ever got my vote for POTUS. And for me, it wasn't just because Bush was in office.
And, while I'm not sure I'd consider myself "far left," I have no real love for the DLC as an organization.
Comments
But that's how some of them sound! Seriously ... You can't see the rigid thought patterns in a lot of the far-far-left posts on here?
Lay off the sauce. You are looking for words and meanings that arent there.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Nobody wrote that, though, so its all good.
Is this the first thread on this subject that you've seen?
cross the river to the eastside
This is something that dawned on me lately (the middle path needs people people)...you can be Liberal and still hold other principles...I am sick of this freaking idealogy mind set where these are qualifications for being Lib/Con
Liberal: Must be pro-choice, anti-gun, Kyoto supporting, public everything, i hate war,gay marriage supporter, against capital punishment...blah blah blah
Conservative: pro-life, gun toting, Kyoto hating, no government, war mongering, i hate gays, pro capital punishment blah blah blah
Why the hell in the last few years certain aspects of poliical discussion have suddently been prerequistes for being a certain brand...todays culture has someqhat branded what it means to be Liberal or Conservative...sorry people but you really can be pro-choice, dual heathcare supportive, gay supporter, need something better than Kyoto, gun toting indivdual...sick of generalizations I guess....where has the middle gone????
This "branding" is seriously hurting us as a culture cause we cannot accomplish anything cause we have segagrated ourselves in these mindsets....we need more orginiality out there....
The first one in a while ... Why, was there a spate of "Mike Is Clearly A Republican" posts that I missed? I said that he sounds more moderate than Ed, and someone else said that he probably cares less about politics and more about being a rock star ... I've never read anything suggesting that he attends pro-life rallies and goes deer hunting with the Nuge.
Like i said unless the band comes and joins this pow-wow no one will have a clue, we can only speculate.....
Good post, man ... I don't know what it is, but everything is totally polarized nowadays. Cons and Libs, you're either for us or against us. You hear it in Bush's pro-war rhetoric, and you hear it from the very folks who hate Bush for his pro-war rhetoric. Dialogue is dead, and its a damn shame.
Perhaps--I remember a thread (on the MT I think) where that was happening and El Kabong posted contributions from opensecrets.org. That shut some people up.
Although I could be mixing up that thread with the numerous other ones where some said Mike must be conservative.
cross the river to the eastside
Ok, I'll try. What exactly did you mean by this:
My interpretation of that statement was that you were equating Ed's refusal to say something you want to hear with censorship.
Incidentally, I don't imagine he'd admit it, but I bet that Ed meant it when he said "Fuck 'em".
That is it exactly.....the extremes think they are brilliant in fact they are so close minded they cannot fathom how much they shut out any ideas from the other side...and unfortuntaly in some ways I fell into that catergory sometimes...makes me cringe....but not anymore...
I know I'm guilty of it too ... Some issues evoke strong emotions and I think that's where the close-mindedness comes in.
As for StoryTellers, or any tv for that matter, if you're on it, you're at the mercy of the editing. The politics I saw had to do with the songs thus StoryTellers. There was a lot more concert and maybe seen in the context of the show entire, what was said wouldn't seem that monumental.
Does anyone really want rock stars solving things? I want them tattooed, greasy, and making noise - political and musical. Coming up with solutions? Not so much.
Auburn Hills '06 - Toronto 1 '06 - London '05 - Kitchener '05 - Clarkston '03 - Auburn Hills '00 - Auburn Hills '98 - East Lansing '98
Free speech wasnt really the point of my statement. My point was that while Ed makes it sound like he's concerned about this right, that right, and the other right, he's really only worried about the things important to HIM.
"My interpretation of that statement was that you were equating Ed's refusal to say something you want to hear with censorship. "
Interesting interpretation. May be due to a serious set of liberal blinders.
And I bet Ed meant it to. Know what? Fuck him.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Yeah I know...its when you get so passionate about a SINGLE subject (9/10 its the war) you suddenly get a hate on for the other side and will try to find ways to disagree with anyway you can...the left labels the right war savages bent on world domination and the right labels the left as pussies holding out America for Islam to take over any day...which if you look at this culture (this message board culture) we inately share a common love and that is PJ...so why the hell can we not agree on more things...like really lets fix the problems with healthcare, lets clean up the environment (and it does not need to be Kyoto we as a nation can come up with something better if fucking take the time to listen to one another), security (without infringing on rights but at the same time take the necessary measures to ensure we are okay), etc.
Just frustrated how people disagree with ONE thing and brand you something you are not...I choose not to be Liberal or Conservative I simply want to be myself....
No cure for cancer, dennis leary. Dennis leary knows all.
"And I also don't go for this other thing now, with MTV being so big where you get a band that gets a hit video, and all of the sudden they think that they're like icons and they can tell us how to feel about environmental issues and how to vote and stuff. You know what I'm talking about? Like R.E.M. "Shiny Happy People" "Hey Hey Hey Hey Hey! Pull that bus over to the side of the pretentiousness turnpike, alright!? I want everybody off the bus. I want the shiny people over here, and the happy people over here, ok! I represent angry gun-toting meat-eating fucking people, alright!" Sit down and shut the fuck up Michael! Don Henley's gonna tell me how to vote. I don't fucking think so, ok? I got two words for Don Henley, Joe Fucking Walsh, ok!? Thanks for calling, Don! How long's your pony tail now? Ok!"
www.myspace.com/jensvad
According to an old Rolling Stone feature on the band written by Cameron Crowe, Mike flirted with conservatism in the mid or late 80's when his teen hair band moved down from Seattle to L.A. looking to get signed. They failed, and Mike moved back up to Seattle, cut his hair, and started reading books by Barry Goldwater. I'd have to check for the quote, but I could swear that he says something like "I almost became a conservative."
This, combined with the info on his campaign contributions, would indicate to me that he falls squarely within the liberal side of things.
That is so funny! I have that on CD and VHS. Dennis Leary is outspoken these days about the current state ofthe world.
Park City, UT 06/21/98
Mountain View, CA 06/01/03
San Diego, CA 07/07/06
San Francisco, CA 07/15/06
I know Mike isn't pro-war or pro-Bush ... Maybe its more about how he says things compared to Ed. I don't know, I want to hear the other band members speak on these topics, even if they do sound a lot like Ed.
Hey, at least we can agree on that, 'cuz we sure as shit aren't agreeing on anything else.
Does someone pay you $20 every time you use the word "blinders" in your posts?
I think just the "blackout weaves its way" part, though ... I remember in an interview Stone mentioned that Ed thought this line was very cool, so he incorporated it into his anti-Bush rant.
Maybe Stone added other parts too ...
I could see that being true to some extent, but I'd still imagine that the guys are mostly liberal across the board. Would you play a benefit concert for a pro-choice group if you were anti-abortion? Probably not.
Stone once said in an interview that he was probably the most conservative member of the band, and I could see that, too. Ed has called Stone his "foe" within the band on a few occasions, and that's probably in the context of having philosophical or maybe ideological disagreements with him.
Of course, Stone did wear a "Billionaires for Bush" t-shirt during the Vote for Change tour, so that's good. Members of both parties can find a reason to criticize the president. I mean, seriously, does that guy suck ass or what?
$40 buxx wouldnt be worth it to me really.
Do you get a nickel every time you use the word facist? If so, you must be wealthy.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Yes he does.
I think I am perhaps the Stone of this message board ...
However, there is this CBS article ( http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/02/politics/main646978.shtml ) that ends with the following:
......Pearl Jam guitarist Stone Gossard said he wants to convince voters that the Bush administration has been reckless in its foreign policy since Sept. 11.
"For me, personally, I very much want John Kerry to win," Gossard said in an interview. "I think that he's expressed an interest in re-engaging the world community and saying the last administration is not representative of the way America wants to do business with the world."......
A rather positive endorsement of Kerry - so maybe Stone isn't as far left as Ed after all.
Stone's feelings on the subject were probably pretty typical of a lot of liberals in 2004. Normally, the far left will disagree with moderate Democrats during the primaries, for sure. Some far-left liberals still don't like a lot of things that President Clinton did and the whole Third Way bit and the DLC's influence on the party. They maybe still felt burned by the 2000 election, and just wanted a win in 2004, especially after seeing the direction that the administration took us in the ensuing 4 years. Personally, I felt that Senator Kerry would have been a very good president, but he was an ultra-shitty campaigner.
As far as Stone's comments, I'd love to hear him speak out more on politics, he sounds like he might be the most articulate speaker in the band.
And, while I'm not sure I'd consider myself "far left," I have no real love for the DLC as an organization.