It's not so much the words Michael Richards used that are shocking. I mean let's face it, we've heard every insult in the book through music, literature and film.
What IS VERY scary about his rant is the violence and anger in his voice and the way in which he was jumping around stage like a crazy animal! To have Michael Irvin slip with a joke that wasn't funny, does not even compare to the intensity that Kramer had.
I truly believed every word that came out of his mouth, and that's what is scary. I get the impression that if he had a gun in his hand in a closed room with no witnesses that he would have shot these two guys.
Maybe a bit extreme, but you get my point.
He seemed possessed.
For libs- If O'reilly had gone off on this tirade, would you still feel like a second chance needs to be given?
For Cons- If Moore had gone off on this tirade, would you still feel like a second chance needs to be given?
Or is Richards getting a free pass because he palyed Cosmo in Seinfeld?
If this was someone that you guys didnt watch on a regular basis, and therefore have grown to love, would you guys still feel the same way?
For libs- If O'reilly had gone off on this tirade, would you still feel like a second chance needs to be given?
For Cons- If Moore had gone off on this tirade, would you still feel like a second chance needs to be given?
Or is Richards getting a free pass because he palyed Cosmo in Seinfeld?
If this was someone that you guys didnt watch on a regular basis, and therefore have grown to love, would you guys still feel the same way?
doesnt matter. if oreilly, moore, or richards have asked for forgiveness and tried to reach out to the african american community then they would all deserve a chance.
I dont think richards got a free pass at all. he career is probably over.
For libs- If O'reilly had gone off on this tirade, would you still feel like a second chance needs to be given?
For Cons- If Moore had gone off on this tirade, would you still feel like a second chance needs to be given?
Or is Richards getting a free pass because he palyed Cosmo in Seinfeld?
If this was someone that you guys didnt watch on a regular basis, and therefore have grown to love, would you guys still feel the same way?
um....in your opinion, what should happen to Richards...? you seem to feel strongly about his outburst...I wonder, what should be done...?
should he go to jail, or pay out money, or be voted off the island...?
this document shows harlem pop figures, but the nabe is divided up on this sheet, but just counting central harlem has 107,109 + east harlem has 117,743 (there's well over twice the pop with just those two pieces alone): http://www.demographia.com/db-nyc-wardrank.htm
it just pisses me off because it can appear that, when people don't know what they're talking about, that certain neighborhoods are more dangerous perhaps because of the race of the population. While Harlem had quite some problems in the past, this isn't 1982.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
um....in your opinion, what should happen to Richards...? you seem to feel strongly about his outburst...I wonder, what should be done...?
should he go to jail, or pay out money, or be voted off the island...?
I've already discussed what I will do. Same thing I did with Gibson. I won't watch anything with him in it nor purchase anything that has him in it. What's wrong with my question?
I've already discussed what I will do. Same thing I did with Gibson. I won't watch anything with him in it nor purchase anything that has him in it. What's wrong with my question?
sorry, I missed that...
you are talking about what you are personally doing, which is fine, and I support that...however, do you think it's ok for others to continue to watch Senfield and Braveheart...?
as for you question about "second chances"...I think almost everyone deserves a second chance....those who don't are murders and child molestors...
Jesse Jackson has recieved a second chance or two...do you support that...?
you are talking about what you are personally doing, which is fine, and I support that...however, do you think it's ok for others to continue to watch Senfield and Braveheart...?
as for you question about "second chances"...I think almost everyone deserves a second chance....those who don't are murders and child molestors...
Jesse Jackson has recieved a second chance or two...do you support that...?
I def have no problem with other people watching Seinfeld and braveheart. What I'm doing is just a personal choice. I'm not calling for a full blown boycott. More of a personal boycott involving just myself.
I was just asking if people would feel the same if it was someone they opposed as compared to someone they have watched and laughed with over the years.
christ, if you think harlem is dangerous, i'd hate to see you in bed-stuy, south bronx, or east new york.
have any of you been to harlem lately?
you're playing semantics. ive never been anywhere in nyc, i was only thinking of a historically black neighborhood. perhaps that's a better example... a neighborhood that is relatively safe but still has the perception of danger becos of who is living there.
the person who wasn't nervous in harlem... yet noticed every dirty/strange look he got... does that person even see anyone when strolling through midtown manhattan? or was there heightened awareness becos of the neighborhood and feeling out of place?
for my xp... im not going to stray into south chicago. if i was in south chicago and saw a group of young black men eyeing me, id be nervous. do i think black people are inferior, or violent, or should be slaves, or deserve less, or are animals? no. so am i racist? take my gf: very friendly, sweet girl who can get along with anyone and volunteers to help the toughest kids in inner city columbus. but she said she has never in her life been more scared than when she went into south chicago by accident. she was hassled, dogged with catcalls, insulted, etc. so who was the racist? the black dudes hassling the white girl? or the white girl who was scared? could anyone blame her for thinking maybe some of the stereotypes are true after being subjected to treatment like that?
likewise, these dudes were acting like jackasses, and richards blew his top. it doesn't mean he's racist. it means he was frustrated and acted in poor taste. i think he was trying to challenge them not to act like the stereotype so often applied to black males and he failed miserably.
My question is why does this get tons of press, but a well-known x-NFL star and current broadcaster says similar racist remarks and goes virtually unnoticed.
Use your perspective. Three words: Jimmy "The Greek".
Consider if Irvin's words would have come out of the mouth of a sportscaster 5 shades lighter than Irvin. We'd be in the middle of yet another racial uproar.
I think we all know that to be the truth...I'm just not afraid to say it.
I figure Richards will be able to stop "apologizing" once his victims get paid.
the person who wasn't nervous in harlem... yet noticed every dirty/strange look he got... does that person even see anyone when strolling through midtown manhattan? or was there heightened awareness becos of the neighborhood and feeling out of place?
I didn't notice every look, I said some. It was also night time, there weren't as much people on the streets as in midtown Manhattan, so you tend to notice people more.
And yes, I felt a bit out of place, we were the only white people there. But we didn't feel scared or umcomfortable at all.
No one is saying that being afraid in a situation like your girlfriend was in is racist. She would have been just as scared if it were white kids doing all the hassling and insulting, right?
I didn't notice every look, I said some. It was also night time, there weren't as much people on the streets as in midtown Manhattan, so you tend to notice people more.
And yes, I felt a bit out of place, we were the only white people there. But we didn't feel scared or umcomfortable at all.
No one is saying that being afraid in a situation like your girlfriend was in is racist. She would have been just as scared if it were white kids doing all the hassling and insulting, right?
why did you feel out of place? they're just human beings like you right? there is no difference between you that should lead you to feel out of place, correct? how did you notice you were the only white person? shouldn't we all be colorblind?
you're playing semantics. ive never been anywhere in nyc, i was only thinking of a historically black neighborhood. perhaps that's a better example... a neighborhood that is relatively safe but still has the perception of danger becos of who is living there.
my post you quoted was in response to reborn's post which included this question:
"Who is so PC that they are dumb enough to have absolutely no fear in a dangerous neighborhood?"
I'm just saying that is a ridiculous question. He seem to try and 'slam' the "PC" crowd yet clearly doesn't know that Harlem isn't really considered dangerous. That is, unless he considers places like Santa Monica dangerous. Which makes me wonder if some people consider Harlem dangerous just because it has a comparatively high black population. Now that makes me question who is "dumb enough".
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
why did you feel out of place? they're just human beings like you right? there is no difference between you that should lead you to feel out of place, correct?
That's ridiculous and you know it. I didn't feel out of place because they were black. There were numerous reasons why I felt a bit out of place. The first reason was because I was a foreigner, there's a completely different culture in the States, and there are so many different cultures within the States as well... I was also a tourist in a non-tourist area and yes, I am white and everybody there was black.
how did you notice you were the only white person? shouldn't we all be colorblind?
This is even more ridiculous. How did I notice we were the only white people there? Because all the people we saw were black people. Even people who are colourblind see the difference between black and white, my friend.
The bottomline is, it didn't feel different than walking in China Town, or Manhattan, or Queens... I always felt a bit out of place.
That's ridiculous and you know it. I didn't feel out of place because they were black. There were numerous reasons why I felt a bit out of place. The first reason was because I was a foreigner, there's a completely different culture in the States, and there are so many different cultures within the States as well... I was also a tourist in a non-tourist area and yes, I am white and everybody there was black.
This is even more ridiculous. How did I notice we were the only white people there? Because all the people we saw were black people. Even people who are colourblind see the difference between black and white, my friend.
The bottomline is, it didn't feel different than walking in China Town, or Manhattan, or Queens... I always felt a bit out of place.
and that is my point. noticing or being aware of differences does not make one a racist. if so, we all have a little bit of racist in us becos we all are making constant judgments about other people and our relation to them. but somehow, saying "i didnt feel comfortable hanging out with the french in paris" is a perfectly acceptable thing to say here and we say "oh, well there's a cultural difference there. no big deal." however, to say "i didnt feel comfortable hanging out with the black guys in south chicago" makes you a racist. and it's solely becos we're super sensitive about race in america. these guys were acting like douchebags and richards lost it. he over-reacted, but that does not make him a member of the KKK or a plantation owner. it makes him a guy who made some comments in poor taste in the heat of the moment. and i doubt these guys much give a shit what richards said. as evidence of this i point to the later article pointing out that the guys want a face to face apology form richards AND money. richards said he'd be happy to apologize personally. they say that's not enough... they NEED money to get over the harm (explain that one to me). this is an issue mainly becos richards is a celebrity and these guys thought they could make a few bucks off of it.
if the guys in the audience had been white fratboys at duke and richards had gone on a rant about pampered rich date rapists, people woulda shrugged it off and said the boys got what they deserved for being obnoxious at a comedy show.
as evidence of this i point to the later article pointing out that the guys want a face to face apology form richards AND money. richards said he'd be happy to apologize personally. they say that's not enough... they NEED money to get over the harm (explain that one to me). this is an issue mainly becos richards is a celebrity and these guys thought they could make a few bucks off of it.
I was also a tourist in a non-tourist area and yes, I am white and everybody there was black.
i've got to say, congrats to you for being a tourist who left midtown! it's refreshing to see people who explore real neighborhoods. did you eat there?
Even people who are colourblind see the difference between black and white, my friend.
in my experience, people who toss around the colorblind term are usually trying to brush racial acknowledgment and issues aside. i think people need to talk about these things and not brush them off. they'll just hide under the surface.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
this document shows harlem pop figures, but the nabe is divided up on this sheet, but just counting central harlem has 107,109 + east harlem has 117,743 (there's well over twice the pop with just those two pieces alone): http://www.demographia.com/db-nyc-wardrank.htm
it just pisses me off because it can appear that, when people don't know what they're talking about, that certain neighborhoods are more dangerous perhaps because of the race of the population. While Harlem had quite some problems in the past, this isn't 1982.
i've got to say, congrats to you for being a tourist who left midtown! it's refreshing to see people who explore real neighborhoods. did you eat there?
We stayed at the YMCA in Harlem, there was a great vibe in Harlem, especially during the day! We ate pizza but we just went out and bought stuff in grocery stories.
Queens was amazing too. Great vibes as well... friendly people!
I came to NY and everyone, even people who live in NYC told us it was a cold city and a dangerous one...
Well, dangerous, it's probably not the safest place in the world but what city is, right? But cold? No, it was absolutely wonderful...
We stayed at the YMCA in Harlem, there was a great vibe in Harlem, especially during the day! We ate pizza but we just went out and bought stuff in grocery stories.
Queens was amazing too. Great vibes as well... friendly people!
I came to NY and everyone, even people who live in NYC told us it was a cold city and a dangerous one...
Well, dangerous, it's probably not the safest place in the world but what city is, right? But cold? No, it was absolutely wonderful...
You didn't make it to Brooklyn? :( Brooklyn beats Queens in the borough wars .
It's funny because everyone has all these ideas about NYC, but it is actually ranked the safest 'large city' in the US. All cities have their issues, but it seems those in NYC get exaggerated. Maybe it's the movies, the history, I don't know.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
You didn't make it to Brooklyn? :( Brooklyn beats Queens in the borough wars .
It's funny because everyone has all these ideas about NYC, but it is actually ranked the safest 'large city' in the US. All cities have their issues, but it seems those in NYC get exaggerated. Maybe it's the movies, the history, I don't know.
Oh, we wanted to see Brooklyn so bad, but we didn't have enough time! NYC is huge!!!! But I'll be back.
Oh yeah, NYC is definitely not as the people say it is. We thought we were going to get robbed, stabbed and shot before we even got out of the plane:D But people greeted us with smiles and helped us find our way... talk about culture shock!!!
You didn't make it to Brooklyn? :( Brooklyn beats Queens in the borough wars .
It's funny because everyone has all these ideas about NYC, but it is actually ranked the safest 'large city' in the US. All cities have their issues, but it seems those in NYC get exaggerated. Maybe it's the movies, the history, I don't know.
When looking at the numbers, people forget just how many people live in the New York City area.
Funny thing is, we go on and on about the Micheal Richards ordeal, yet skinheads and the KKK still exists in America and no one seems to talk much about that. This country is getting goofier by the day.
Oh, we wanted to see Brooklyn so bad, but we didn't have enough time! NYC is huge!!!! But I'll be back.
Oh yeah, NYC is definitely not as the people say it is. We thought we were going to get robbed, stabbed and shot before we even got out of the plane:D But people greeted us with smiles and helped us find our way... talk about culture shock!!!
well if you ever want ideas for things to check out/eat/drink in brooklyn, just let me know.
glad you made it around safely! i think some people have a lot more 'city smarts' than others.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
When looking at the numbers, people forget just how many people live in the New York City area.
yeah. if brooklyn was it's own city, it would be the fourth largest in the US.
btw, do they have commercials by you for domino's brooklyn style pizza? wtf. please don't think that is representative of the glorious pizza one can find in the borough.
i'm sick of talking about michael richards.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
my post you quoted was in response to reborn's post which included this question:
"Who is so PC that they are dumb enough to have absolutely no fear in a dangerous neighborhood?"
I'm just saying that is a ridiculous question. He seem to try and 'slam' the "PC" crowd yet clearly doesn't know that Harlem isn't really considered dangerous. That is, unless he considers places like Santa Monica dangerous. Which makes me wonder if some people consider Harlem dangerous just because it has a comparatively high black population. Now that makes me question who is "dumb enough".
I wasn't referring to Harlem specifically ... My statement was intended to be more general. I am willing to believe you when you say that Harlem is relatively safe.
So take a freaking pill.
Comments
I dominate Rucker Park.
ha, i always knew you were hiding something of that caliber.
for those unlike skitch here, who haven't been in harlem lately, i'd thought i'd share this interesting tidbit:
The crime rate in Harlem in 2005 was comparable to that in wealthy neighborhoods in other American cities, such as Santa Monica, California.[41][42]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem
this was a great article too:
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0238,little,38429,1.html
cross the river to the eastside
What IS VERY scary about his rant is the violence and anger in his voice and the way in which he was jumping around stage like a crazy animal! To have Michael Irvin slip with a joke that wasn't funny, does not even compare to the intensity that Kramer had.
I truly believed every word that came out of his mouth, and that's what is scary. I get the impression that if he had a gun in his hand in a closed room with no witnesses that he would have shot these two guys.
Maybe a bit extreme, but you get my point.
He seemed possessed.
Klein
Interesting...I'm wondering if the types of crimes are roughly the same as well.
For libs- If O'reilly had gone off on this tirade, would you still feel like a second chance needs to be given?
For Cons- If Moore had gone off on this tirade, would you still feel like a second chance needs to be given?
Or is Richards getting a free pass because he palyed Cosmo in Seinfeld?
If this was someone that you guys didnt watch on a regular basis, and therefore have grown to love, would you guys still feel the same way?
doesnt matter. if oreilly, moore, or richards have asked for forgiveness and tried to reach out to the african american community then they would all deserve a chance.
I dont think richards got a free pass at all. he career is probably over.
um....in your opinion, what should happen to Richards...? you seem to feel strongly about his outburst...I wonder, what should be done...?
should he go to jail, or pay out money, or be voted off the island...?
yes they are. i looked at the sources cited in the link and santa monica's stats on an 88,406 population are, in one year:
4 murders
21 rapes
241 robberies
285 aggravated assaults
http://santamonica.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm
this document shows harlem pop figures, but the nabe is divided up on this sheet, but just counting central harlem has 107,109 + east harlem has 117,743 (there's well over twice the pop with just those two pieces alone):
http://www.demographia.com/db-nyc-wardrank.htm
you get these figures for harlem:
9 murder
37 rape
397 robbery
340 fel assault
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/pdf/chfdept/cs032pct.pdf
it just pisses me off because it can appear that, when people don't know what they're talking about, that certain neighborhoods are more dangerous perhaps because of the race of the population. While Harlem had quite some problems in the past, this isn't 1982.
cross the river to the eastside
I've already discussed what I will do. Same thing I did with Gibson. I won't watch anything with him in it nor purchase anything that has him in it. What's wrong with my question?
sorry, I missed that...
you are talking about what you are personally doing, which is fine, and I support that...however, do you think it's ok for others to continue to watch Senfield and Braveheart...?
as for you question about "second chances"...I think almost everyone deserves a second chance....those who don't are murders and child molestors...
Jesse Jackson has recieved a second chance or two...do you support that...?
I def have no problem with other people watching Seinfeld and braveheart. What I'm doing is just a personal choice. I'm not calling for a full blown boycott. More of a personal boycott involving just myself.
I was just asking if people would feel the same if it was someone they opposed as compared to someone they have watched and laughed with over the years.
you're playing semantics. ive never been anywhere in nyc, i was only thinking of a historically black neighborhood. perhaps that's a better example... a neighborhood that is relatively safe but still has the perception of danger becos of who is living there.
the person who wasn't nervous in harlem... yet noticed every dirty/strange look he got... does that person even see anyone when strolling through midtown manhattan? or was there heightened awareness becos of the neighborhood and feeling out of place?
for my xp... im not going to stray into south chicago. if i was in south chicago and saw a group of young black men eyeing me, id be nervous. do i think black people are inferior, or violent, or should be slaves, or deserve less, or are animals? no. so am i racist? take my gf: very friendly, sweet girl who can get along with anyone and volunteers to help the toughest kids in inner city columbus. but she said she has never in her life been more scared than when she went into south chicago by accident. she was hassled, dogged with catcalls, insulted, etc. so who was the racist? the black dudes hassling the white girl? or the white girl who was scared? could anyone blame her for thinking maybe some of the stereotypes are true after being subjected to treatment like that?
likewise, these dudes were acting like jackasses, and richards blew his top. it doesn't mean he's racist. it means he was frustrated and acted in poor taste. i think he was trying to challenge them not to act like the stereotype so often applied to black males and he failed miserably.
Consider if Irvin's words would have come out of the mouth of a sportscaster 5 shades lighter than Irvin. We'd be in the middle of yet another racial uproar.
I think we all know that to be the truth...I'm just not afraid to say it.
I figure Richards will be able to stop "apologizing" once his victims get paid.
...signed...the token black Pearl Jam fan.
FaceSpace
I didn't notice every look, I said some. It was also night time, there weren't as much people on the streets as in midtown Manhattan, so you tend to notice people more.
And yes, I felt a bit out of place, we were the only white people there. But we didn't feel scared or umcomfortable at all.
No one is saying that being afraid in a situation like your girlfriend was in is racist. She would have been just as scared if it were white kids doing all the hassling and insulting, right?
naděje umírá poslední
why did you feel out of place? they're just human beings like you right? there is no difference between you that should lead you to feel out of place, correct? how did you notice you were the only white person? shouldn't we all be colorblind?
my post you quoted was in response to reborn's post which included this question:
"Who is so PC that they are dumb enough to have absolutely no fear in a dangerous neighborhood?"
I'm just saying that is a ridiculous question. He seem to try and 'slam' the "PC" crowd yet clearly doesn't know that Harlem isn't really considered dangerous. That is, unless he considers places like Santa Monica dangerous. Which makes me wonder if some people consider Harlem dangerous just because it has a comparatively high black population. Now that makes me question who is "dumb enough".
cross the river to the eastside
That's ridiculous and you know it. I didn't feel out of place because they were black. There were numerous reasons why I felt a bit out of place. The first reason was because I was a foreigner, there's a completely different culture in the States, and there are so many different cultures within the States as well... I was also a tourist in a non-tourist area and yes, I am white and everybody there was black.
This is even more ridiculous. How did I notice we were the only white people there? Because all the people we saw were black people. Even people who are colourblind see the difference between black and white, my friend.
The bottomline is, it didn't feel different than walking in China Town, or Manhattan, or Queens... I always felt a bit out of place.
naděje umírá poslední
and that is my point. noticing or being aware of differences does not make one a racist. if so, we all have a little bit of racist in us becos we all are making constant judgments about other people and our relation to them. but somehow, saying "i didnt feel comfortable hanging out with the french in paris" is a perfectly acceptable thing to say here and we say "oh, well there's a cultural difference there. no big deal." however, to say "i didnt feel comfortable hanging out with the black guys in south chicago" makes you a racist. and it's solely becos we're super sensitive about race in america. these guys were acting like douchebags and richards lost it. he over-reacted, but that does not make him a member of the KKK or a plantation owner. it makes him a guy who made some comments in poor taste in the heat of the moment. and i doubt these guys much give a shit what richards said. as evidence of this i point to the later article pointing out that the guys want a face to face apology form richards AND money. richards said he'd be happy to apologize personally. they say that's not enough... they NEED money to get over the harm (explain that one to me). this is an issue mainly becos richards is a celebrity and these guys thought they could make a few bucks off of it.
if the guys in the audience had been white fratboys at duke and richards had gone on a rant about pampered rich date rapists, people woulda shrugged it off and said the boys got what they deserved for being obnoxious at a comedy show.
Never disagreed with you there.
Bunch of idiots if you ask me, asking money.
naděje umírá poslední
i've got to say, congrats to you for being a tourist who left midtown! it's refreshing to see people who explore real neighborhoods. did you eat there?
in my experience, people who toss around the colorblind term are usually trying to brush racial acknowledgment and issues aside. i think people need to talk about these things and not brush them off. they'll just hide under the surface.
cross the river to the eastside
Thanks for that.
We stayed at the YMCA in Harlem, there was a great vibe in Harlem, especially during the day! We ate pizza but we just went out and bought stuff in grocery stories.
Queens was amazing too. Great vibes as well... friendly people!
I came to NY and everyone, even people who live in NYC told us it was a cold city and a dangerous one...
Well, dangerous, it's probably not the safest place in the world but what city is, right? But cold? No, it was absolutely wonderful...
naděje umírá poslední
You didn't make it to Brooklyn? :( Brooklyn beats Queens in the borough wars
It's funny because everyone has all these ideas about NYC, but it is actually ranked the safest 'large city' in the US. All cities have their issues, but it seems those in NYC get exaggerated. Maybe it's the movies, the history, I don't know.
cross the river to the eastside
Oh, we wanted to see Brooklyn so bad, but we didn't have enough time! NYC is huge!!!! But I'll be back.
Oh yeah, NYC is definitely not as the people say it is. We thought we were going to get robbed, stabbed and shot before we even got out of the plane:D But people greeted us with smiles and helped us find our way... talk about culture shock!!!
naděje umírá poslední
When looking at the numbers, people forget just how many people live in the New York City area.
well if you ever want ideas for things to check out/eat/drink in brooklyn, just let me know.
glad you made it around safely!
cross the river to the eastside
yeah. if brooklyn was it's own city, it would be the fourth largest in the US.
btw, do they have commercials by you for domino's brooklyn style pizza? wtf. please don't think that is representative of the glorious pizza one can find in the borough.
i'm sick of talking about michael richards.
cross the river to the eastside
naděje umírá poslední
I wasn't referring to Harlem specifically ... My statement was intended to be more general. I am willing to believe you when you say that Harlem is relatively safe.
So take a freaking pill.