Rx, meth, coke problems? Legalize the herb!!!

1970RR

know1 wrote:

No you don't get it. I don't have anything against pot, although I don't have much respect for people who place such a high importance on it.

I'm also generally against the governmnet regulating anything...only the bare minimum.

All I'm saying is that your arguments for legalizing it are illogical.

(and once again, it is very naive to think that your actions do not affect others. Everyone's actions and even their thoughts affect other people)

I would be interested to hear your logical reasons for keeping it illegal.

Pearl Jam and toast

MCG wrote:

And it is very closed minded to assume that because the action involves pot the effects on others around me are negative. In my case I could easily argue the opposite.

and we have argued the opposite.

know1

MCG wrote:

And it is very closed minded to assume that because the action involves pot the effects on others around me are negative. In my case I could easily argue the opposite.

Take a look at my post you quoted. Did I say that all actions are negative? I just said, please don't use that "it doesn't affect anyone else" BS, please.

know1

1970RR wrote:

I would be interested to hear your logical reasons for keeping it illegal.

I don't have any. It makes no difference to me whether it's illegal or not. I haven't seen any real compelling or logical arguments on either side. And like I said, I generally like the government regulating as little as possible.

Take a look at the first post in this thread. It is essentially saying that since kids are abusing prescription drugs, we should make pot legal.

That's kind of like saying, since my hair is too long I should go fishing.

MCG

Look, there are some obvious problems and obvious benefits to making pot legal. Legal or illegal, it can't be perfect. What I know is it helps me deal with my health and lead a better life. Without it I'd probably spend most nights and some days in bed and weigh 20lbs less than I do now. The way I look at it, if legalizing it gives more people like me the opportunity to lead happier lives at home it's worth it. It's not like I'm saying smoke a doobie before work or anything, I don't and would never.

Plus, gov't regulated weed would probably bring in hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenues which can be used to fund schools, hospitals and any other gov't programs. The only downside I see it people abusing it, by driving, or doing other stupid things while under the influence of pot, but people do that now, if anything, higher prices will bring those numbers down. It's certainly a safer alternative than alcohol, which as we know, is very legal.

How relieving suffering and benefitting the economy isn't compelling or logical I don't understand.

1970RR

know1 wrote:

I don't have any. It makes no difference to me whether it's illegal or not. I haven't seen any real compelling or logical arguments on either side. And like I said, I generally like the government regulating as little as possible.

Take a look at the first post in this thread. It is essentially saying that since kids are abusing prescription drugs, we should make pot legal.

That's kind of like saying, since my hair is too long I should go fishing.

What are your thoughts on the drug war in general? Do you think it is the best approach?
As I said earlier, my opinion is that more harm is being done by maintaining the current prohibition. It increases violence, criminalizes large numbers of people and has led to a general erosion of civil liberties.

Pearl Jam and toast

know1 wrote:

Take a look at the first post in this thread. It is essentially saying that since kids are abusing prescription drugs, we should make pot legal.

That's kind of like saying, since my hair is too long I should go fishing.

yes, but that's one of many many many arguments that have been posed in this thread.

that one isn't as stupid as your simile ... but it's not good.

There are good ones back there, including medical reasons (pro-con type stuff).

know1

1970RR wrote:

What are your thoughts on the drug war in general? Do you think it is the best approach?
As I said earlier, my opinion is that more harm is being done by maintaining the current prohibition. It increases violence, criminalizes large numbers of people and has led to a general erosion of civil liberties.

I don't have any well-developed thoughts on the drug war.

I do know this - if it's illegal and there is serious jail time involved, I don't understand why people would risk that much just to get high. If a drug is that important to you, you've got a problem, in my opinion.

I also think that the statement about criminalizing large numbers of people doesn't make a lot of sense for two reasons. First of all, the very nature of a law is that people who break it are criminals. Secondly, the people still have a choice, therefore it's not the war or the law doing the criminalizing, but instead the people who choose to ignore the law.

Conversely, I would not oppose making it legal.

My whole thing is that these arguments:

a: it doesn't affect anyone else
b. it's not as bad as alcohol
c. it would keep people out of jail

Are not logical, compelling reasons for making it legal.

If you want to be compelling, find positives that it brings to people and tout those instead.

But if you do that, spare the the medicinal uses because that's a small percentage. Also, spare me the "it gives me an escape" or "relieves stress" lines because those can be found elsewhere.

Pearl Jam and toast

You cannot overdose on it. Impossible. There is no toxicity level.


All the potheads i know are scared to death of other drugs.

Because they're EDUCATED.

It's not a downward spiral, that's complete rubbish.



But, dude, in the Netherlands they have a very low rate of smokers (lower than the U.S.), mostly due to the fact that it is legal, it takes away that allure of "oooh, I'm doing something bad...I'm sooo cool." Holland still has not legalized hard drugs and they've been down with the herb for a long time now (not sure how long, but pretty sure a long time).

I do however, totally agree with you about the ridiculousness of current punishments...let's fill those prisons up shall we? then we can build more prisons!




Though it would be a step forward for the ecomony. Get that shit taxed, put dealer fucks outta business. Sorry I think it's really unfair that dealers don't have to pay taxes or really even do shit for a job if dealing is their life.





Life is too short to not try certain pleasurable things





Make it so people can get a clean on buzz legally without having to go to a dealer and support gang violence in their neighborhoods.




If someone wants to get high bad enough they'll find a away, legal or not. Not everyone is going to do it.. you're twisting the argument just so you can try to make fun of it.

Plus, drug use is almost always a victimless crime.. just a person or some people having fun.

Comparing it to murder is exactly what those 'scared old people' i referenced earlier do... and i mean it, it's exactly what they do and it's completely ridiculous to do so.




If I just smoke a joint (that I grew from seed) who did I just hurt? If I just murder someone who did I just hurt?





drug use (lower end drug use.. pot.. etc.. what we've been talking about) doesn't harm friends and families.

It can.. but it's not in any way a given that it will.. it's pretty rare, and usually results from 2 extremes living together (i.e. an anti-drug filmmaker who's son smokes weed every day in the house with him or something )

Actually, i've made a lot of good friends through pot, too.





Reefer madness man... i knew a guy that knew a guy that smoked a joint once, and immediately came down with mental illnesses like schitzo. and manic depression so he killed his parents with an axe!

Look, the only thing you're going to want to do high is eat, listen to music, and watch tv really. And if you do drive high, it's not like alcohol.. people can safely drive high fairly easily... it's not as safe as sober, don't get me wrong,.. but it's not like drunk driving. at all.





fuckin A, man - legalize the herb!! meanwhile it's perfectly legal to smoke a cigarette and drink a shot of scotch(both can kill you over time) but smoking a joint?? forget it. makes no sense.





There is a war on drugs because every kid and their brother is out on the streets selling the hard shit (crack, meth, Coke, and heroin in many cases).

People are buying it from them, some only buy weed but they still cast their vote on promoting their lifestyle. Drop out drug dealer youth of today....lovely

Take that power away from them. Let the common man cultivate herb in his own yard if he so chooses. Problem solved. Alcohol is a worse substance than pot. GMAFB. Alcohol is just as much or more of a gateway drug than anything.






Originally Posted by know1
I call BS. It DOES harm friends and families.

How?


I know a TON of people who smoke openly (as in, their family knows) and it hasn't torn apart a single one.

If it's going to harm the family the people in it have to try to make it harm them.. As in, disagreeing with the act of smoking pot in general, and turning it into a problem.

The people who say that kind of stuff are often the furthest people away from the actual drug culture.
__________________





that's a pretty good start on arguments presented thus far.

tybird

MCG wrote:

Look, there are some obvious problems and obvious benefits to making pot legal. Legal or illegal, it can't be perfect. What I know is it helps me deal with my health and lead a better life. Without it I'd probably spend most nights and some days in bed and weigh 20lbs less than I do now. The way I look at it, if legalizing it gives more people like me the opportunity to lead happier lives at home it's worth it. It's not like I'm saying smoke a doobie before work or anything, I don't and would never.

My argument is that people should never be allowed to smoke it in public....never....ever......under no circumstances in public.

Your health is no more important than mine. Second-hand pot smoke is a severe deterrant to my good health. Face it. Pot is not good for everyone.

MCG

know1 wrote:

But if you do that, spare the the medicinal uses because that's a small percentage.

A small percentage because its not an option. Pot has been known to help people dealing with AIDS, cancer, glocolma, anxeity and stomach disorders. symptoms Hmm... suddenly the percentage doesnt seem so small does it?

know1

MCG wrote:

A small percentage because its not an option. Pot has been known to help people dealing with AIDS, cancer, glocolma, anxeity and stomach disorders. symptoms Hmm... suddenly the percentage doesnt seem so small does it?

Yes it still seems small. Also, there are other legal medicines that help as well so it's not like pot is the only one.

Hoon

know1 wrote:

I don't have any well-developed thoughts on the drug war.

I do know this - if it's illegal and there is serious jail time involved, I don't understand why people would risk that much just to get high. If a drug is that important to you, you've got a problem, in my opinion.

I also think that the statement about criminalizing large numbers of people doesn't make a lot of sense for two reasons. First of all, the very nature of a law is that people who break it are criminals. Secondly, the people still have a choice, therefore it's not the war or the law doing the criminalizing, but instead the people who choose to ignore the law.

Conversely, I would not oppose making it legal.

My whole thing is that these arguments:

a: it doesn't affect anyone else
b. it's not as bad as alcohol
c. it would keep people out of jail

Are not logical, compelling reasons for making it legal.

If you want to be compelling, find positives that it brings to people and tout those instead.

But if you do that, spare the the medicinal uses because that's a small percentage. Also, spare me the "it gives me an escape" or "relieves stress" lines because those can be found elsewhere.

A large number of people want it to be legal. It is a part of our lives and we would prefer not to be criminals. We break the law because it is an unjust law. We don't have "criminal" minds because we chose to break them. I would never lie, cheat, steal, injure or kill. I just want to take a little hit when I watch a movie, hang with friends or sit around and get in touch with god. For most people it is a beneficial experience to their perspective on life. I don't see what the problem is.

Why should it be illegal?

I'm guessing hemp is part of a differrent disscussion, but the stigma placed on such an efficient plant as that is one I'm sure you find ridiculas.

MCG

tybird wrote:

My argument is that people should never be allowed to smoke it in public....never....ever......under no circumstances in public.

Your health is no more important than mine. Second-hand pot smoke is a severe deterrant to my good health. Face it. Pot is not good for everyone.

I agree with you about 100% here. People should never be allowed to smoke anything, cigarettes included in a public place where it could harm somebody else and I personally am very careful about that.

Of course its not good for everyone, what may be right for you may not be right for some. I'd never try to force it on anybody that is for sure. It's simply my opinion that some people could benefit from being able to aquire it leagally. You won't get any argument from me there.

Bars must be hell for you :(

MCG

know1 wrote:

Yes it still seems small. Also, there are other legal medicines that help as well so it's not like pot is the only one.

Well then, I guess I can't convince you of pots medicinal benefits. No hard feelings, a fun debate on an otherwise unneventful day

Ahnimus

Elvis didn't do no drugs!

tybird

MCG wrote:

Bars must be hell for you :(

Catching a show in a bar, where smoking is allowed, equals at least a day of bed rest. :(

Jammin909

tybird wrote:

My argument is that people should never be allowed to smoke it in public....never....ever......under no circumstances in public.

Your health is no more important than mine. Second-hand pot smoke is a severe deterrant to my good health.

The air is so full of shit a couple joints/cigs every now and again will not take another day off your life.

know1

MCG wrote:

Well then, I guess I can't convince you of pots medicinal benefits. No hard feelings, a fun debate on an otherwise unneventful day

Nope..you can't. "Medical marijuana" is definitely about the "marijuana" and not about the "medical".

You can't tell me that you all who want it legalized would be happy with it being legal just for specific medicinal purposes. Also, you can't tell me that if there was another medicine that was just as good on the symptoms, but without the high that you'd use that instead.

Abookamongstthemany

Ahnimus wrote:

Elvis didn't do no drugs!

And it shows!