i think it's the other way around. sg, pj and aic all have the same... uhhhmmm... what do you call it... uhh, i dunno... i guess what i'm trying to say is that those three bands will actually put like a long solo somewhere in a song. as for nirvana, well, they're more punk... i really love that bleach album.... i think it's their best album and most beloved by the "indie" freaks. i think.... their songs are less "complicated" than the other 3 grunge bands. all that nirvana was in it for was just to put on a killer hard rock song and kick ass with it.... milk it, for instance, is probably my favorite nirvana song just cause it's so creative, fun and raw all at once.
nirvana is a great band indeed. i'd say their my favorite grunge band.... but i don't know, it's hard to tell.
I couldn't agree more. Nirvana songs were just so simple, typically 4 chord songs that had a great hook, and usually great lyrics.
I've read many interviews and books about Kurt, and what I got out of them was he really wanted the fame... I think he actually liked it. But at the same time he didn't want his indie punk cronies to look down upon him for becoming mainstream, so he would horribly trash talk any other band that he thought was striving for or had become mainstream (Like PJ) to make himself look indie. That was his big dish with PJ, especially Ament. Apparently Ament was very obvious in his endeavors of fame, but I think Kurt wanted what Ament wanted too... the fame and the $.
I'm Eric.
Gorge 9/1/05
Gorge 7/22/06
Seattle 9/22/09
Portland 7/14/11 (Ed Solo)
Seattle 7/15/11 (Ed Solo)
Bridge School 10/23/11 (Ed Solo)
Las Vegas 10/31/12 (Ed Solo)
Las Vegas 11/1/12 (Ed Solo)
I'm glad there's finally a thread that initially advertises the bashing of Kurt. Most other threads start out praising Cobain and Nirvana and then the bashers take control of it and it all goes downhill.
"Everyone is a patriot in some form or another.... i prefer the intelligent ones."
I'm glad there's finally a thread that initially advertises the bashing of Kurt. Most other threads start out praising Cobain and Nirvana and then the bashers take control of it and it all goes downhill.
well i guess it's best that if someone is gonna call cobain on his whinging, they may as well do is by whinging about it right from the get go.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
My opinion of Kurt has nothing to do with my opinion of Pearl Jam...
Kurt Cobain was one of the most over rated musicians on all time... ALL TIME. It is laughable that people but him in the same breath as Janis, Hendrix and Morrison... Nirvana? The talent was behind the drum kit...
The only reason he gets praised is because he ate a buckshot sandwich at age 27, how tragic! :rolleyes:...
My opinion of Kurt has nothing to do with my opinion of Pearl Jam...
Kurt Cobain was one of the most over rated musicians on all time... ALL TIME. It is laughable that people but him in the same breath as Janis, Hendrix and Morrison... Nirvana? The talent was behind the drum kit...
The only reason he gets praised is because he ate a buckshot sandwich at age 27, how tragic! :rolleyes:...
i call bullshit.
it's the media that puts him in with janis, hendrix and morrison. and the idiots eat it up.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
On 8/17/07 written "I recall hearing someone called Mark Arm wasn't too fond of ol Jeff (Ament) either." Actually Jeff Ament and Mark Arms were in Green River (Seattle band) together. Not aware of any discontent. #X.
"The Poet is a madman lost in adventure."
-Paul Verlaine-
"With me poetry has not been a purpose, but a passion."
-Edgar Poe-
well lets all hate kurt cause what he said as a 20 something but eddie is cool though he is still bashing other artists(using that term lightly).
eddie ripped into good charlotte the other year cause they were some popular mtv band that was the big name in the mtv scene. much is like what kurt did to pj for being popular in the grunge scene. so maybe eddie hasnt grown up cause hes doing what kurt did 10 years ago.
i kinda wish people would stopping holding eddie up as something special when he isnt any better than kurt.
Kurt Cobain was one of the most over rated musicians on all time... ALL TIME. It is laughable that people but him in the same breath as Janis, Hendrix and Morrison... Nirvana? The talent was behind the drum kit...
The only reason he gets praised is because he ate a buckshot sandwich at age 27, how tragic! :rolleyes:...
On 8/17/07 written "I recall hearing someone called Mark Arm wasn't too fond of ol Jeff (Ament) either." Actually Jeff Ament and Mark Arms were in Green River (Seattle band) together. Not aware of any discontent. #X.
I've read many interviews and books about Kurt, and what I got out of them was he really wanted the fame... I think he actually liked it. But at the same time he didn't want his indie punk cronies to look down upon him for becoming mainstream, so he would horribly trash talk any other band that he thought was striving for or had become mainstream (Like PJ) to make himself look indie. That was his big dish with PJ, especially Ament. Apparently Ament was very obvious in his endeavors of fame, but I think Kurt wanted what Ament wanted too... the fame and the $.
I agree with all of that. I also think that Cobain recognized the amount of attention that he and his band could receive by starting the "feud" with Pearl Jam.
None of Cobain's words or actions make me think any less of himself or his band. All I really care about is that I like Nirvana's music.
.....None of Cobain's words or actions make me think any less of himself or his band. All I really care about is that I like Nirvana's music.
I'm with you marky. I like Nirvana. I think that Kurt had talent. None of it compares to PJ for me though, but that's just personal preference.
I don't understand the hype surrounding Kurt, although I think it has to do with that "legendary" status thing that seems to happen to a lot of American artists upon their death. There's a big industry in the dead becoming icons. Lot of money to be made. Think perhaps that has something to do with it.
well lets all hate kurt cause what he said as a 20 something but eddie is cool though he is still bashing other artists(using that term lightly).
eddie ripped into good charlotte the other year cause they were some popular mtv band that was the big name in the mtv scene. much is like what kurt did to pj for being popular in the grunge scene. so maybe eddie hasnt grown up cause hes doing what kurt did 10 years ago.
i kinda wish people would stopping holding eddie up as something special when he isnt any better than kurt.
Comparing Ten to good charlotte's first album (whatever it's called) is kinda stupid
Hey, how you doing? I am new to the message pit, and haven't learned all the technique, please bear with my virginity so to say. I had written a comment about Jeff Ament and Mark Arm' relationship, and you had replied "not aware of any discontent? Are you serious?" Well i hate to be wrong, so i always am doing research, and must confess i am wrong, but maybe only. I looked through Wikpedia, and a great book LOSER: The Real Seattle Music Story by Clark Humphrey. So here goes what i foundout.
Yes, there is mention that Jeff Ament was seen as a careerist. Steve Turner quit Green River in August 1985. He said that he was not in agreement with Jeff Ament and Stone Gossards growing dream of arena stardom. In 1985 Mark McLauglin aka Mark Arm was reluctant to get serious about fame and fortune, and left. Among factors was Jeff Ament and Stone Gossard suggestion that Mark Arm take voice lessons. (That would piss me off). Although Mark Arm
saw Ament/Gossard as careerist, Ament/Gossard had jobs and had to support themselves, while Arm was supported by his parents. Later Arm would
sign with a major label (Mudhoney), leaving everyone to wonder why.
Wikpedia say Gossard/Ament quit the band, while opposite in the Loser book.
The Loser says that in 1993 while at the Gorge with Neil Young, Mark Arm joined with Pearl Jam for a rendition of Mudhoneys "Suck you dry." While Wikpedia states November 30, 1993 Mark Arm joined Pearl Jam while in Las Vegas to "Swallow my Pride" and "Ain't Nothing to Do." SO please if you have additional information, please let me know, kinda following up with the incestness of Seattle music is my thing. Also i did not know this before, Cobain had three male family members commit suicide, i've heard it can run in families. Just a thought. Later #X.
"The Poet is a madman lost in adventure."
-Paul Verlaine-
"With me poetry has not been a purpose, but a passion."
-Edgar Poe-
I'm a big Dave Grohl fan, he is super talented. But really... Kurt was the songwriter. At least for the majority of Nirvana's catalog.
Agree with that.
Dave is my fav drummer of all time (I could listen to 'My Hero' all day and be happy.... ) and he definately brought something to Nirvana that Chad Channing couldnt, but Kurts words, melody and simple power riffs were the key to Nirvana's sucess.
His lyric's mean more to me than Eddie Vedder's, i aint looking for an arguement on it, just how i feel. lol.
Kurt was not a well balanced person. His suicide demonstrates that clearly.
If you recall, Eddie used to whine and moan a LOT in interviews too (mostly about how horrible being famous it... remember?) ... again, he wasn't exactly in the greatest frame of mind coming off a not-so-jolly child hood ... well, i reckon kurt had it a bit worse off, and probably suffered more imbalance because of it (and arguably by his inate being, his nature, as well) ...
kurt was a horrible addict, a rather immature person (as evidenced by a good few of his journal writings), a tortured soul, and as imperfect a being as one could find ...
... but you know what?
kurt was beautiful too.
he spoke so softly yet gave voice to so many...
and despite his antics, and his unfortunate musings about eddie, and his untimely demise ... despite all that, he really just wanted everyone to be well ... and it's a shame he couldn't achieve that himself, and its ashame he couldn't believe that the fans would let him just be well, and its ashame people still can't let him just be well ...
clearly people like eddie and michael stipe recognize that ... the idea that kurt could be a beautiful human, a flawed human, and a person that desperately needed help (though too late did they recognize this) ...
why can't people just accept these truths.
kurt was part of a movement that, even when it was at odds with itself, was a movement of hope joy and empowerment for a whole generation ... don't get so jaded that you can't remember how great it felt to see those bands on top of the world and leading a generation to question authority, the status quo, the mainstream media, and the politics of power.
remember that what became mainstream really never was meant to be as such, and only after the fact, once it had exploded in everyones face ... only then did it become so easy to criticize ...
kurt played because he had too.
it was in him. it is what woke him and what in the end put him to bed.
and, for the record, Rock Animals by Shonen Knife is pure musical bliss. Shonen Knife are a fun quirky band that take a nod from The Ramones and add their little japanese quirks and girlish ways to the fray. They are also a band that occasionaly write a song that can move you to the core ... listen to "Music Square" for example.
Excellent post. Very well said. I understand how people can be disillusioned with the whole Cobain/Nirvana worshipping by rock media, but the man truly sparked a movement - a movement we all benefited from. He was a wanker at times, but he helped put rock music in the right direction, if only for a few years.
Hey, how you doing? I am new to the message pit, and haven't learned all the technique, please bear with my virginity so to say. I had written a comment about Jeff Ament and Mark Arm' relationship, and you had replied "not aware of any discontent? Are you serious?" Well i hate to be wrong, so i always am doing research, and must confess i am wrong, but maybe only. I looked through Wikpedia, and a great book LOSER: The Real Seattle Music Story by Clark Humphrey. So here goes what i foundout.
Yes, there is mention that Jeff Ament was seen as a careerist. Steve Turner quit Green River in August 1985. He said that he was not in agreement with Jeff Ament and Stone Gossards growing dream of arena stardom. In 1985 Mark McLauglin aka Mark Arm was reluctant to get serious about fame and fortune, and left. Among factors was Jeff Ament and Stone Gossard suggestion that Mark Arm take voice lessons. (That would piss me off). Although Mark Arm
saw Ament/Gossard as careerist, Ament/Gossard had jobs and had to support themselves, while Arm was supported by his parents. Later Arm would
sign with a major label (Mudhoney), leaving everyone to wonder why.
Wikpedia say Gossard/Ament quit the band, while opposite in the Loser book.
The Loser says that in 1993 while at the Gorge with Neil Young, Mark Arm joined with Pearl Jam for a rendition of Mudhoneys "Suck you dry." While Wikpedia states November 30, 1993 Mark Arm joined Pearl Jam while in Las Vegas to "Swallow my Pride" and "Ain't Nothing to Do." SO please if you have additional information, please let me know, kinda following up with the incestness of Seattle music is my thing. Also i did not know this before, Cobain had three male family members commit suicide, i've heard it can run in families. Just a thought. Later #X.
welcome to the board
always take anything from wikipedia with a grain of salt....
But basically, two things in Green River caused a rift between the members. The first is the mainstream (Gossard, Ament) vs. non-commercial (Arm, Turner) direction for the band. The second is that Gossard and Ament were more favorable to the heavier sounding, hard rock riffs that you later see in Pearl Jam while Arm and Turner were partial to a more pure punk sound. Those things caused some discontent and pretty much caused a rift between the Arm/Turner and Ament/Gossard that lasted throughout the 80s and into the 90s. Every published book/article I've ever read states that those reasons for the rift and that Turner quit first and then Arm quit, eventually joining back up with Turner to form Mudhoney. Eventually, they all buried the hatchet though.
Kurt was not a well balanced person. His suicide demonstrates that clearly.
If you recall, Eddie used to whine and moan a LOT in interviews too (mostly about how horrible being famous it... remember?) ... again, he wasn't exactly in the greatest frame of mind coming off a not-so-jolly child hood ... well, i reckon kurt had it a bit worse off, and probably suffered more imbalance because of it (and arguably by his inate being, his nature, as well) ...
kurt was a horrible addict, a rather immature person (as evidenced by a good few of his journal writings), a tortured soul, and as imperfect a being as one could find ...
... but you know what?
kurt was beautiful too.
he spoke so softly yet gave voice to so many...
and despite his antics, and his unfortunate musings about eddie, and his untimely demise ... despite all that, he really just wanted everyone to be well ... and it's a shame he couldn't achieve that himself, and its ashame he couldn't believe that the fans would let him just be well, and its ashame people still can't let him just be well ...
clearly people like eddie and michael stipe recognize that ... the idea that kurt could be a beautiful human, a flawed human, and a person that desperately needed help (though too late did they recognize this) ...
why can't people just accept these truths.
kurt was part of a movement that, even when it was at odds with itself, was a movement of hope joy and empowerment for a whole generation ... don't get so jaded that you can't remember how great it felt to see those bands on top of the world and leading a generation to question authority, the status quo, the mainstream media, and the politics of power.
remember that what became mainstream really never was meant to be as such, and only after the fact, once it had exploded in everyones face ... only then did it become so easy to criticize ...
kurt played because he had too.
it was in him. it is what woke him and what in the end put him to bed.
What he said.
"I try my best to chug, stomp, weep, whisper, moan, wheeze, scat, blurt, rage, whine, and seduce. With my voice I can sound like a girl, the boogieman, a Theremin, a cherry bomb, a clown, a doctor, a murderer. I can be tribal. Ironic. Or disturbed. My voice is really my instrument."
I really am appreciative of your response. It too bad, that any style of beautiful music, can also have dysfunction. Kind of like religion, Hey.
#X. p.s. i am partial to heavy riffs and screaming vocals.
"The Poet is a madman lost in adventure."
-Paul Verlaine-
"With me poetry has not been a purpose, but a passion."
-Edgar Poe-
i didnt compare any albums. read again. i did mention being popular on mtv.
The way I see it is that Eddie bashing Good charlotte is legitimate, they do sound like shit. That's why I spoke about the albums.
Concerning media coverage, that is definitely immature.
Comments
I couldn't agree more. Nirvana songs were just so simple, typically 4 chord songs that had a great hook, and usually great lyrics.
I've read many interviews and books about Kurt, and what I got out of them was he really wanted the fame... I think he actually liked it. But at the same time he didn't want his indie punk cronies to look down upon him for becoming mainstream, so he would horribly trash talk any other band that he thought was striving for or had become mainstream (Like PJ) to make himself look indie. That was his big dish with PJ, especially Ament. Apparently Ament was very obvious in his endeavors of fame, but I think Kurt wanted what Ament wanted too... the fame and the $.
Gorge 9/1/05
Gorge 7/22/06
Seattle 9/22/09
Portland 7/14/11 (Ed Solo)
Seattle 7/15/11 (Ed Solo)
Bridge School 10/23/11 (Ed Solo)
Las Vegas 10/31/12 (Ed Solo)
Las Vegas 11/1/12 (Ed Solo)
"She fell funny"
"Klaus Daimler, 40, engineer, calm, collected, German"
well i guess it's best that if someone is gonna call cobain on his whinging, they may as well do is by whinging about it right from the get go.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Kurt Cobain was one of the most over rated musicians on all time... ALL TIME. It is laughable that people but him in the same breath as Janis, Hendrix and Morrison... Nirvana? The talent was behind the drum kit...
The only reason he gets praised is because he ate a buckshot sandwich at age 27, how tragic! :rolleyes:...
i call bullshit.
it's the media that puts him in with janis, hendrix and morrison. and the idiots eat it up.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
-Paul Verlaine-
"With me poetry has not been a purpose, but a passion."
-Edgar Poe-
eddie ripped into good charlotte the other year cause they were some popular mtv band that was the big name in the mtv scene. much is like what kurt did to pj for being popular in the grunge scene. so maybe eddie hasnt grown up cause hes doing what kurt did 10 years ago.
i kinda wish people would stopping holding eddie up as something special when he isnt any better than kurt.
This is unfortunately true....
10-4-96 \ 5-6-10
9-6-98 \ 5-7-10
4-19-03 \ 9-22-12
10-6-04 \ 7-19-13
6-24-06 \ 12-6-13
10-1-14 \ 4-16-16
\ 4-26-16 \
None of Cobain's words or actions make me think any less of himself or his band. All I really care about is that I like Nirvana's music.
I'm with you marky.
I don't understand the hype surrounding Kurt, although I think it has to do with that "legendary" status thing that seems to happen to a lot of American artists upon their death. There's a big industry in the dead becoming icons. Lot of money to be made. Think perhaps that has something to do with it.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I'm a big Dave Grohl fan, he is super talented. But really... Kurt was the songwriter. At least for the majority of Nirvana's catalog.
Gorge 9/1/05
Gorge 7/22/06
Seattle 9/22/09
Portland 7/14/11 (Ed Solo)
Seattle 7/15/11 (Ed Solo)
Bridge School 10/23/11 (Ed Solo)
Las Vegas 10/31/12 (Ed Solo)
Las Vegas 11/1/12 (Ed Solo)
Comparing Ten to good charlotte's first album (whatever it's called) is kinda stupid
Yes, there is mention that Jeff Ament was seen as a careerist. Steve Turner quit Green River in August 1985. He said that he was not in agreement with Jeff Ament and Stone Gossards growing dream of arena stardom. In 1985 Mark McLauglin aka Mark Arm was reluctant to get serious about fame and fortune, and left. Among factors was Jeff Ament and Stone Gossard suggestion that Mark Arm take voice lessons. (That would piss me off). Although Mark Arm
saw Ament/Gossard as careerist, Ament/Gossard had jobs and had to support themselves, while Arm was supported by his parents. Later Arm would
sign with a major label (Mudhoney), leaving everyone to wonder why.
Wikpedia say Gossard/Ament quit the band, while opposite in the Loser book.
The Loser says that in 1993 while at the Gorge with Neil Young, Mark Arm joined with Pearl Jam for a rendition of Mudhoneys "Suck you dry." While Wikpedia states November 30, 1993 Mark Arm joined Pearl Jam while in Las Vegas to "Swallow my Pride" and "Ain't Nothing to Do." SO please if you have additional information, please let me know, kinda following up with the incestness of Seattle music is my thing. Also i did not know this before, Cobain had three male family members commit suicide, i've heard it can run in families. Just a thought. Later #X.
-Paul Verlaine-
"With me poetry has not been a purpose, but a passion."
-Edgar Poe-
but yes, mark arm did have beef with stone and jeff..
the man killed himself. get over it. :rolleyes:
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Agree with that.
Dave is my fav drummer of all time (I could listen to 'My Hero' all day and be happy.... ) and he definately brought something to Nirvana that Chad Channing couldnt, but Kurts words, melody and simple power riffs were the key to Nirvana's sucess.
His lyric's mean more to me than Eddie Vedder's, i aint looking for an arguement on it, just how i feel. lol.
I wasn't that huge a Nirvana or Kurt fan, as I've said previously. I'm a historian, so I'm interested in Kurt's death from that perspective.
catefrances
Have you looked at the evidence?
Excellent post. Very well said. I understand how people can be disillusioned with the whole Cobain/Nirvana worshipping by rock media, but the man truly sparked a movement - a movement we all benefited from. He was a wanker at times, but he helped put rock music in the right direction, if only for a few years.
I'm afraid I must agree with that:)
I'll Hold The Pain... Release...
Yourself
always take anything from wikipedia with a grain of salt....
But basically, two things in Green River caused a rift between the members. The first is the mainstream (Gossard, Ament) vs. non-commercial (Arm, Turner) direction for the band. The second is that Gossard and Ament were more favorable to the heavier sounding, hard rock riffs that you later see in Pearl Jam while Arm and Turner were partial to a more pure punk sound. Those things caused some discontent and pretty much caused a rift between the Arm/Turner and Ament/Gossard that lasted throughout the 80s and into the 90s. Every published book/article I've ever read states that those reasons for the rift and that Turner quit first and then Arm quit, eventually joining back up with Turner to form Mudhoney. Eventually, they all buried the hatchet though.
08/02/07 - LOLLA!!!
What he said.
-Tom Waits
i didnt compare any albums. read again. i did mention being popular on mtv.
you people give courtney love way too much credit. :rolleyes:
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
#X. p.s. i am partial to heavy riffs and screaming vocals.
-Paul Verlaine-
"With me poetry has not been a purpose, but a passion."
-Edgar Poe-
The way I see it is that Eddie bashing Good charlotte is legitimate, they do sound like shit. That's why I spoke about the albums.
Concerning media coverage, that is definitely immature.
A mulatto ,
An albino ,
A mosquito ,
My libido ,
Yay .
This means something to you ? lol
9/9/06
Everton 3 RS 0
Circle comes around each time