#47 - Musk/trump/Vance

mickeyrat

https://www.threads.net/@npr/post/DFIf56zRaE1?xmt=AQGzECz_MDEVL2mwkmU5lyOcFoBoLe9db0X6c8gbT7Xysw

Tim Simmons

Leopards gonna be eatin' these next few years.

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 

I know it's not 100% literal, and assume you knew that as well. But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. And a lot of that implies that people think it's a lot bigger of a sweeping change than it actually is. Having 2 options on government documents and ID's seems reasonable to me. Doesn't it most of the time list it as "sex" and not "gender" anyway on a passport? 
And my other point, I didn't see any restriction about which sex to chose, was there? It just eliminated the "X" option. A transgender can still be transgender from what I understand. You just have to pick one.
Go live your life how you want, but your passport that is recognized internationally should be one thing.

the point is to think outside of your priveledged bubble. imagine if your passport only had the options "female" or "trans", how would that make you feel? a little uneasy, right? you might think "I wouldn't care" but that's also because this doesn't happen in every single micro-situation in your life. it does for them. what's the harm in making everyone feel comfortable? especially since it was already there? taking it away is just cruel. cuz with the GOP and MAGA, cruelty is always the point. 

Gern Blansten

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 

I know it's not 100% literal, and assume you knew that as well. But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. And a lot of that implies that people think it's a lot bigger of a sweeping change than it actually is. Having 2 options on government documents and ID's seems reasonable to me. Doesn't it most of the time list it as "sex" and not "gender" anyway on a passport? 
And my other point, I didn't see any restriction about which sex to chose, was there? It just eliminated the "X" option. A transgender can still be transgender from what I understand. You just have to pick one.
Go live your life how you want, but your passport that is recognized internationally should be one thing.

the point is to think outside of your priveledged bubble. imagine if your passport only had the options "female" or "trans", how would that make you feel? a little uneasy, right? you might think "I wouldn't care" but that's also because this doesn't happen in every single micro-situation in your life. it does for them. what's the harm in making everyone feel comfortable? especially since it was already there? taking it away is just cruel. cuz with the GOP and MAGA, cruelty is always the point. 

And why has the issue been elevated? Like you said, it's just cruelty. It's just a dig at "liberals" for no reason other than to piss people off.

mace1229

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 

 But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. 

I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.


But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?

Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.

Go Beavers

It’s just giving permission for people to be hostile. Wait until the Ken and Karens unload on middle
school “tomboys”, insisting on seeing their birth certificate before playing sports against their daughters. 

Gern Blansten

Go Beavers said:

It’s just giving permission for people to be hostile. Wait until the Ken and Karens unload on middle
school “tomboys”, insisting on seeing their birth certificate before playing sports against their daughters. 

We experienced this about 15 years ago. My daughter's U-14/15 soccer team had a goalie that did look very "tomboyish." A parent of an opposing team had demanded that a female ref take her to the restroom and look at her genitals. Really fucking awkward situation and I felt so bad for the parents and the goalie. Her Dad was rarely able to make any of the games due to work and it was one of the few games he was able to attend and he had to deal with that asshole.

The goalie did transition after high school and now identifies as a male.

Which reminds me....another one of our players was actually supposed to be in a team one year above ours. Her father doctored her birth certificate to keep her a year under. This fucker is one of the biggest magats in my FB feed. Nice guy personally but a true magat online and a fucking fraud. I couldn't believe he did that.

Halifax2TheMax

Have we moved on from drones again?

Tim Simmons

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 

 But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. 

I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.


But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?

Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.

I would think at that point an 'x' would then have someone ask, how do you identify and how should we treat you. the courtesy can go both ways. I'm sure TSA doesn't want a surprise. Again, this is not the biggest ask. Its about drawing a line where no one was truly put out by the other way of doing it.

mrussel1

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 

 But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. 

I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.


But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?

Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.

I think it's cute that you think that's the reason why they are doing it, to make it more comfortable for you when you're searched or arrested.  Hilarious.  

Gern Blansten

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 

 But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. 

I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.


But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?

Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.

I think it's cute that you think that's the reason why they are doing it, to make it more comfortable for you when you're searched or arrested.  Hilarious.  

yeah and I'm pretty sure those issues can be addressed as they arise...rather than someone having to check your passport before you enter prison

Merkin Baller

Expedited incarceration isn't a good enough reason for you guys? 

Psssh 

Gern Blansten

I know Maga will be upset about this one...they got so upset when a female was killed by an illegal immigrant and this guy killed at least six people.

Tim Simmons

Weirdo Libertarians will be happy. 

mrussel1

Gern Blansten said:

I know Maga will be upset about this one...they got so upset when a female was killed by an illegal immigrant and this guy killed at least six people.

Did he actually kill six people or did six people using Silk Road die of an overdose?

Parksy

I have a question for the Americans here...  I've always understood Republican / Conservative supporters being very Pro police. Given that Trump recently pardoned / released the J6 criminals... do American police officers etc. still support Trump / Republicans?

I can't imagine the notion of cops still supporting a man who released criminals who struck and caused the death of other cops along with the other crimes they committed. 

Gern Blansten

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know Maga will be upset about this one...they got so upset when a female was killed by an illegal immigrant and this guy killed at least six people.

Did he actually kill six people or did six people using Silk Road die of an overdose?

apologist!

josevolution

Parksy said:

I have a question for the Americans khere...  I've always understood Republican / Conservative supporters being very Pro police. Given that Trump recently pardoned / released the J6 criminals... do American police officers etc. still support Trump / Republicans?

I can't imagine the notion of cops still supporting a man who released criminals who struck and caused the death of other cops along with the other crimes they committed. 

I’d say 90% of cop’s & firefighters voted for him now that’s just my opinion but I live in a town full of cops and firefighters and they are all MAGA supporters! 

Gern Blansten

Parksy said:

I have a question for the Americans here...  I've always understood Republican / Conservative supporters being very Pro police. Given that Trump recently pardoned / released the J6 criminals... do American police officers etc. still support Trump / Republicans?

I can't imagine the notion of cops still supporting a man who released criminals who struck and caused the death of other cops along with the other crimes they committed. 

oh yeah...it's a cult. The police union supported trump this election and they'll probably support him again when he usurps the constitution and demands to run again.

mickeyrat

Parksy said:

I have a question for the Americans here...  I've always understood Republican / Conservative supporters being very Pro police. Given that Trump recently pardoned / released the J6 criminals... do American police officers etc. still support Trump / Republicans?

I can't imagine the notion of cops still supporting a man who released criminals who struck and caused the death of other cops along with the other crimes they committed. 

trumplicans..... back the blue, pro-police its all just lip service

Parksy

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

I have a question for the Americans here...  I've always understood Republican / Conservative supporters being very Pro police. Given that Trump recently pardoned / released the J6 criminals... do American police officers etc. still support Trump / Republicans?

I can't imagine the notion of cops still supporting a man who released criminals who struck and caused the death of other cops along with the other crimes they committed. 

oh yeah...it's a cult. The police union supported trump this election and they'll probably support him again when he usurps the constitution and demands to run again.

considering the pardon frenzy he is on...  what is the advantage to the policing world to support MAGA?  

mace1229

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 

 But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. 

I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.


But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?

Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.

I think it's cute that you think that's the reason why they are doing it, to make it more comfortable for you when you're searched or arrested.  Hilarious.  

No one (in power) is saying don't be trans, or must live your life as a Mae of female. No one is saying you can't identify as whatever you want in your private life, work, whatever. Only that on government paperwork, you must indicate your sex between male and female. 
And I don't know if those reasons were even considered. Probably not. Just noting there are reasons to need to know someone's identity, including their sex. Especially legal government forms. It just doesn't seem unreasonable to me. No one is asking people to show it when they buy groceries, or wear it like a Star of David on their arm. I haven't even seen anyone say it can't be changed from what is assigned at birth. Your sex is part of your identity, and governments like to be able to identify people. I can't even sign up for the local grocery store discounts without providing tons of identifying information, our government should want to be more precise than them. 
Sex is biological. Gender is how you identify. I know Trump said "gender," but most official documents list it as "sex." 

josevolution

Gasoline has gone up 10 cents a gallon now at $2.93 

Merkin Baller

mickeyrat said:

Parksy said:

I have a question for the Americans here...  I've always understood Republican / Conservative supporters being very Pro police. Given that Trump recently pardoned / released the J6 criminals... do American police officers etc. still support Trump / Republicans?

I can't imagine the notion of cops still supporting a man who released criminals who struck and caused the death of other cops along with the other crimes they committed. 

trumplicans..... back the blue, pro-police its all just lip service

Same with the armed forces... conservatives are all about supporting the troops until trump pisses on POWs, calls dead soldiers suckers & losers or desecrates Arlington National Cemetery & it's *crickets* out of them. 

mrussel1

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 

 But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. 

I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.


But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?

Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.

I think it's cute that you think that's the reason why they are doing it, to make it more comfortable for you when you're searched or arrested.  Hilarious.  

No one (in power) is saying don't be trans, or must live your life as a Mae of female. No one is saying you can't identify as whatever you want in your private life, work, whatever. Only that on government paperwork, you must indicate your sex between male and female. 
And I don't know if those reasons were even considered. Probably not. Just noting there are reasons to need to know someone's identity, including their sex. Especially legal government forms. It just doesn't seem unreasonable to me. No one is asking people to show it when they buy groceries, or wear it like a Star of David on their arm. I haven't even seen anyone say it can't be changed from what is assigned at birth. Your sex is part of your identity, and governments like to be able to identify people. I can't even sign up for the local grocery store discounts without providing tons of identifying information, our government should want to be more precise than them. 
Sex is biological. Gender is how you identify. I know Trump said "gender," but most official documents list it as "sex." 

You act like this issue isn't actually cultural and political.  And that it isn't fundamental to the right wing movement.  Anti-trans means "anti" everything related to it.  Pronouns, kids, drag shows and passports.  No offense, but you act so naive with these comments, attempting to spin every one of these policies into the best possible light rather than what Trump and his key supporters say every single day on television.  

It's not about passports.  It's about chipping away at the identity of someone who is different than most of us.  I could care less what someone calls themselves, and I bet you don't care either. But there are LOTS of hard core people in this country who do care.  It's the same people who cared that gays got married.  And a generation ago, it was the same people who cared what water fountain you used.  

Gern Blansten

Parksy said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

I have a question for the Americans here...  I've always understood Republican / Conservative supporters being very Pro police. Given that Trump recently pardoned / released the J6 criminals... do American police officers etc. still support Trump / Republicans?

I can't imagine the notion of cops still supporting a man who released criminals who struck and caused the death of other cops along with the other crimes they committed. 

oh yeah...it's a cult. The police union supported trump this election and they'll probably support him again when he usurps the constitution and demands to run again.

considering the pardon frenzy he is on...  what is the advantage to the policing world to support MAGA?  

No advantage whatsoever. Unfortunately our fire/police/education workers and all susceptible to the cult teachings...that voting GOP is good for them because liberals are bad.

Once again...the GOP has brilliantly convinced blue collar workers that they are the party for them. Even though the GOP continually cuts funding for their salaries and benefits in order to support tax breaks for the wealthy.

Gern Blansten

Merkin Baller said:

mickeyrat said:

Parksy said:

I have a question for the Americans here...  I've always understood Republican / Conservative supporters being very Pro police. Given that Trump recently pardoned / released the J6 criminals... do American police officers etc. still support Trump / Republicans?

I can't imagine the notion of cops still supporting a man who released criminals who struck and caused the death of other cops along with the other crimes they committed. 

trumplicans..... back the blue, pro-police its all just lip service

Same with the armed forces... conservatives are all about supporting the troops until trump pisses on POWs, calls dead soldiers suckers & losers or desecrates Arlington National Cemetery & it's *crickets* out of them. 

yeah and the grunts support trump even more...slugs for salt...makes no fucking sense

They will watch trump insult and fire their military leaders and not give two shits. 

mickeyrat

Merkin Baller said:

mickeyrat said:

Parksy said:

I have a question for the Americans here...  I've always understood Republican / Conservative supporters being very Pro police. Given that Trump recently pardoned / released the J6 criminals... do American police officers etc. still support Trump / Republicans?

I can't imagine the notion of cops still supporting a man who released criminals who struck and caused the death of other cops along with the other crimes they committed. 

trumplicans..... back the blue, pro-police its all just lip service

Same with the armed forces... conservatives are all about supporting the troops until trump pisses on POWs, calls dead soldiers suckers & losers or desecrates Arlington National Cemetery & it's *crickets* out of them. 

or are called on to actually support vets etc with proper funding....

brianlux

Parksy said:

I have a question for the Americans here...  I've always understood Republican / Conservative supporters being very Pro police. Given that Trump recently pardoned / released the J6 criminals... do American police officers etc. still support Trump / Republicans?

I can't imagine the notion of cops still supporting a man who released criminals who struck and caused the death of other cops along with the other crimes they committed. 

Well, remember, it's America we're talking about here.  Look how many minorities voted for a racist.  And they got a Nazi in the deal.  So yes, many cops will still support The Felon.  MAGAs will do anything to "own the libs", even at the cost of disowning their own self respect.  It's a sickness that runs through a large portion of the country. 

Halifax2TheMax

Seems some are finally catching on. The brain drain across our institutions are going to wreak havoc. Better hope for no calamities or conflicts. You’ve got about two, two and a half years.